Not 100% sure if you are referring to me, but I have run photon builds in the past and they do work very well. I usually find my targets in pvp/ kerrat in the big fed/kdf balls, and if they do not pay attention I can easily position myself for a HY photon. But as I said, my main damage against most of my targets are cluster torps once they have been disabled and can't move. I keep the photons around for those occasions where I can sneak in when they have a shield facing down and get 90k crits. :P
I repeat: I was not referring to your build, that i cant see as it isnt posted here, i just referred to your quote where you said that 3 photons in the front would be viable.
I totally see the sense of building a critphoton for uncoordinated mass pvp where there are folks without a healer to support them.
Oh dammed, shame over me, i was mistaken, i referred to hipachilles not to you *_*
Your build of course, is certainly viable and we already discussed this 2 pages ago, sorry for being confused a bit .
Only your second cluster is still not needed, but its not a major disadvantage^^
And again sorry
Haha no problem. The second cluster torp actually is on global, so I can fire a cluster torp every 15 seconds no matter what happens, also let's me attack from both directions hahah.
Hey, for sure i know this is just a game, however when you ask something about your build then it may happen someone critisizes it. Also i dont like if someone answers to questions without knowing anything about the game mechanics, because another one might follow your wrong advice, leading to more stupid builds.
And for sure it works in current pve, sou can do estfs with the tier 3 intrepid cause its so ridiciously easy. But if you just think about going to pvp then you should be careful that your build isnt totally TRIBBLE.
And btw, 3 hyper recharges are a bit wasted as well
Gotcha. I see now that there was a misunderstanding. I was not seeking help with my build. I was responding to hipachillies' question and was giving a bit of history to the build I posted in post #131 at the top of page 14. That build was not originally designed for pvp as I don't usually do pvps. However, I'm running a lesser version of it now and it's pretty effective in pve. I think it would do ok in a group pvp as fire support. Is it the best? Certainly not! I freely admit that. But I have fun with it.
Sorry for causing so much confusion and thanks for the insight. So if i swap out one of my front photons ofor a cluster and add some shield stripping that would help. What about the rear slots? You suggest a mine but what is the advantage ober another torp rear?
I should clarify I mainly Stf and kerrat is for farming not PVP. My pvp is only defensive while killing borg. I do crystalline and am always 1st or 2nd place already.
Mines have a huge advantage on the t`varo with DPB3 as you can place 16 mines for incredible burst, however you need that commander tac, so not perfect for your ship.
What you could consider to slot into the back: tricobalt torp ( additional burst).
The omnidirectional beam array ( You can take the antirproton you can get for free from the obelisk mission) - this would be my favourite:
-you are no longer a pure torp-boat, however you need that beambank not for dmg.
-you fly a sience ship
-you have therefore the target subsystem for free
this means with that 1 beamarray you get a lot of benefits in ultility, as you can dmg their systems, maybe take shilds offline, reduce dmg if you get too much etc.
Generally i would say for rear slot on a sience you cant go wrong with a omnidirectional beamarray, however look that it has this 360% firearc so you can fire to all directions.
PS: Sadly the experimental proton weapon does NOT apply target subsystem so you need that beamarray.
And yes, swap your photon ( the regular) with the cluster, this will allow it to fire more often as you will shoot it out earlier (you normally approuch your enemys frontal, dont you).
The tread is quite interesting and good for new torpboaters. Being a sience captain since the time i started i tried many different torpedobuilds, and maybe ill share some, for example a way to make quantums/photons effective pvp torpedoboats, if someone wants to get it.
However now im here do do a bit of comparison between the good old transphasic torpedoboats and the new photon torpedoboats. To do this we will first do the math on a pure sience ship: The fleet intrepid, still a very good underrated ship, however it lacks a bit of tac bos.
So here is what your transphasic build will do: 2rapid reloads+1 breen cluster in the front. Imagine you go a all dmg buff to torps you could get:
3*Transphasic consoles Mk XII Purple Fleet: +95,7%dmg
Adapted Maco 2 piece: +25% dmg
Undine Deflektor +17.5 Torpedo Weapon Dmg
The Fluidic Counter Assault Deflector provides +17.5 Starship Projectile Weapons. Each point of SPW provides +0.5% damage strength. The +17.5 from the deflector provides +8.75% damage strength.
Rule 62: +11,6%dmg
So you get a total of 132,6% bonus Damage to your rapid reload torpedo
You Rapid Reload does 2104 of base Damage and can (according you have 2 of them combined with 3 purple projektile doff) fire at a rate of averange 2.0sek (1.5 if your doffs proc permanently, however they fail sometime.
the damage per shot goes up to 2104+2104*1,326 = 4893,9 damage per shot
According you shoot once every 2 sec you get a dps of 2336,952 (3262,6 if you shoot every 1.5sek)
However this would be if you shoot to rare hull.
Bonus Damage and Base Damage are specific terms.
0.957 + 0.25 + 0.116 = 1.323; without taking into account the Fluidic Deflector. Not sure where you got 1.326 from. The +0.0875 would take it to 1.4105 for your multiplier. That's not including any skills, either. Regardless, those would be strength boosts and not bonus boosts. Bonus Damage is a specific term that applies to certain damage boosts but not others.
A standardized formula for determining raw damage would be the following:
We can leave WeaponPowerBoost in the formula for projectiles, because with Weapon Power providing no direct boost to projectile damage; we'd have 1 + 0 for the formula.
The 2104.4 of the Rapid Reload Transphasic Mk XI (Very Rare) is not the base damage. Base Damage, like Bonus Damage, is a specific term - in this case it refers to the TRIBBLE/Mk 0 damage of a weapon (even if the weapon does not exist at TRIBBLE/Mk 0, the base damage can still be calculated).
Can take a look at a few things (making sure we have no Bonus boosts active, as they could throw the math off if not accounted for in the calculations).
We know the tooltips tend to deal in rounding, so that the +28.1% is actually more than just +28.1%, etc, etc, etc. In certain spreadsheets out there, the number will simply be listed as 978 to account for that possible rounding action. Given the existence of damage variation anyway, it's not going to be an exact number anyway.
With the 3x VR PWOs, you're looking at a 48.8% chance of a proc from a single torp to drop the recharge by 5s (from 8s to 3s). The second torp will give you another 48.8% chance of a proc, which would either drop the 8s to 3s if the first failed or the 3s to 1s. Course, with the 1.5s delay between the two, you only need one of the two torps to proc to get the steady 1.5s flow. You're looking at a 73.8% probability of at least one of the torps triggering that proc. Which also means you're looking at a 26.2% probability of getting neither proc which can leave you hanging. With three torps, there's an 86.6% probability of it triggering at least once. Sure, you face the 3rd torp not firing - but you've got a better probability of not being left hanging because of a missed proc.
A normal shild does have those 10% bleedthrough and the transphasic add another 20% of this, so you deal 30% of your dmg to the hull: 0.3*4893,9 = 1468,1712 hulldamage per shot.
if the shield of the enemy is a resilent one ( Mostly pvp sience vessels) it would only be 25% total bleedthrough : 1223,4 dmg per shot.
The rest 70% damage are sent to the shilds that have an inertia 75% resistance rating:
3425,8*0,25=856,46 damage per shot to shilds, not counting additional shild resistences (however they are hardcapped anyways).
So you have an average dps of 711,7 to hull and 428,23 to shilds, so you will shred their hull without being able to burn the shilds down.
Um, that's not how the 40% Bonus Penetration of Transphasics works. Here, I slapped a random Transphasic from the Exchange on a toon and shot at a Bulwark. NPC's generally have standard shields (non-Resilient) - never noticed one having something otherwise, so it's possible...but it's generally going to be non-Resilient.
For anybody not aware of what that is, those are the two lines from a combat log after you type /combatlog 1 - and - it writes out a text file of damage/healing that's taking place. It's /combatlog 0 to turn it off.
But anyway, the first line is the shield line and the second is the hull line - you've got the timestamp, attacker, target, attack, and then the stuff we want to look at - will look at both pairs of numbers at the end, eh?
Shield: -368.252, -1832.1
Hull: 1560.68, 3392.78
The -368.252 is the damage to the shields. The -1832.1 is the damage the shields prevented from hitting the hull. The 1560.68 is the damage to hull. The 3392.78 is the raw damage of the attack.
This shows us that the target had ~79.9% shield damage reduction against the torp. (1 - (ShieldDamage / PreventedDamage)
But enough about the shield angle, cause we're talking about the bleedthrough here. And it shows us that we had 46% bleedthrough/penetration. Which is what we would expect...
Because the Transphasics have +40% Bonus Penetration, meaning that the penetration resistance of the target would only be 60% of what it was.
However now compare it to the photon torpedo build:
You will be able to get the following boosts:
2*Photon consoles Mk XII Purple Fleet: +63,8%dmg
Adapted Maco 2 piece: +25% dmg
Undine Deflektor +17.5 Torpedo Weapon Dmg
Rule 62: +11,6%dmg
Counter-Command Multi-Energy Relay +26.6 % photon and radiation damage.
Dyson 2 set: +22,9% photon torp dmg
adding up to a whoppy 149,9 % bonus damage to the photons
Were ignoring crit and critdmg here, however the dyson 3 is a huge impact, for sure.
The Multi Relay is a curious choice instead of a third Advanced Tac console. Is it a case of dropping Aceton Assimilators or a plethora of the Bio Torps for the +Rad? Even there, one would have to take a look at their overall CrtH/CrtD to see if they wouldn't get more out of the third Advanced Tac console. Running it with the E-Bio torp for the +7.5% Bonus Disruptor/Phaser damage for perhaps an Omni Directional Disruptor/Phaser for subsystem targeting?
The 2pc Protonic Arsenal not only provides the +22.9% strength boost, but it also gives you a general +3% CrtH boost...that will increase your Critical Hit Chance on any of your attacks. Likewise, since you mentioned the 3pc Protonic - that would give you an additional +10% CrtH for your Photons while also providing a general +10% CrtD boost...that will increase the Critical Severity of all your Critical Hits.
You will mostly using the gravimetric photon torpedo and the undine torpedo or 2 undine torpedos.
Your gravimetric deals 3081 of base damage and gets to a 7699,419 damage per shot.
Your undine torpedo does also 3081 base damage and goes to the same 7699,4 damage, however it also adds (after 8 seconds if the enemys dont hazzard emitter, this why you should have you subnuc rdy) another woppy 611,9 dmg directly to the hull, buffed by 26,6% to 774,66 dmg per stack
The base damage of Photon torpedoes is 1352.
It's not just HE that will cleanse that particular debuff. Don't forget the WCE (Cleanse) DOFFs, that have a 20%/30%/40% proc to cleanse all debuffs on an EPtX activation.
Those photons also fire on a rate of 1.6 average.
However you miss the 20% additional bleedthrough of the transphasic, so here is how it plays out:
Normal shild: 0.1*7699,419dmg = 769,9419 dmg to hull adding another
Resilent: 0.05*7699419dmg = 384,97095 dmg to hull
Damage to shilds: (7699,419-769,9419)*0,25 = 1732,369 dmg to shilds.
As you see here you will normally shred eneyms shilds better than hull and might need to destroy their shilds and then hull, however adding the radiation damage you suddenly outdamage the transphasics in damage to hull per shot, damage to shilds per shot and also lower their turnrate, and firerate, however you cluster torp looses quite a punch and in pvp you need to be extra cautionous to hazzard emitters removing your debuffs.
Hrmm, well - there's the previous issue of how penetration/bleedthrough works and kind of ignoring the shields having any damage reduction beyond the initial 75% innate...
In mentioning the Breen Cluster and PvP, one needs to keep in mind that it is a targetable torp and thus subject to all sorts of spam that will prevent it from reaching its intended target.
Quite interesting build!
Though im not sure why you use that lonely transphasic and the two photons, as i cant see what tac consoles you use. Also i think DPB3 is still a must, so maybe use a polarize hull ( also gives as much resistance as 3 Mk XII purple armors) against tractors.
Dropping mines out on a spam infested map where they will be obliterated is a pretty large waste of a Commander Tac slot compared to all the benefits he's getting from the APO3...and is oft something better suited to where he's got it slotted at Lt with a DPB1 for when the opportunity may present itself.
Also i feel you could go with just 1 aux to dampers, adding another defenisve option in Technic, maybe another heal.
Kinetic damage is one of the larger problems a T'varo or a B'rel will face - Torp Spreads have 100% to hit and will not miss outside of using the Fluidic console at just the right time.
also you dont need warpcore effeciency, your aux and engines are very high anyways and you need 0weapon and shild power.
He'd want the 125 Aux for the most benefit from the pair of Nukara Aux traits...meaning Aux is going to be pumped as much as possible, even with the boost from the +Aux Tech. There's also going to be the shifting of power while decloaked - etc, etc, etc.
Also i dont see that investing total 12 points into Graviton and Particle Generators makes much sense, if i get it right only the rifts from gravimetric profit from it.
Grav will help the Tractor. Partigens will help the Tractor and EWP. And yes, the Grav Rifts from the Grav Photon.
You could instead look for full hull repair and invest the points starship sensors, it is always fun to fine a cloaked bird of prey and just hit them with a high yield torpedo while they have no shilds.
Perhaps if he was running the Jem Mk XII or Romulan Deflector while also running TDF...but the T'varo is not a Sci ship and has a weaker base for Stealth Detection.
Also you being a sience you should consider a plasma build, more dots and your beachball get truly crazy then, only downside are the many targetable torps.
Dropping the Beachball out amidst all the potential spam out there is a good way to get oneself blown up. With it being the Singularity Inverter and Destabilizer (unless the Inverter was meant to be the Stabilizer), would probably even want to drop the Beachball in favor of another console.
Ah ok, can understand a few of your arguments.
However i would be interested in what torps are boostet by grav/part gens exept the dyson one.
And still i would like you to take a look on those photons, as by you are barley boosting them it may be that you could come to a better output using more transphasics that are getting a heavy boost, allowing you to do more constant dps/ dps to unshielded, i will calculate it right now:
Transphasic Torp (lets use the rapids, they would be optimal for constant fire:
base dmg: 2104
Buffs: 4 Time console (you could take away the undine 1): +126% dmg
2 Makro: +25% dmg
complete: 5158 damage per shot
Undine Torpedo:
base damage:3181, 611 radiation damage after 8 seks
Buffs: +26,6% PhotonDamage(console)
2 Protonic Arsenal : +22,9% PhotonDamage
+26,6% RadiationDamage
complete:4756,5 Damage,743,526 radiation damage after 8 sek coming to a total 5500,026 damage per shot, however only after 8 sek of an enemy without hazard on him, and if he looses his shilds i dont think he will live 8 more seconds without a healer who will certainly hazard him, making the transphasics win in damage, even if you would use the rapids who deal less dmg than a normal one + you could spare 2 consolslots to use a rule 62 and a transphasic console + your cluster will do more dmg cause of that additional transphasic console
Probably need to take another look at your calculations...as well as recommending the Rapid Trans. The Rapid Trans are only Mk XI, so they've got around 10.207% less damage strength than Mk XII Trans would have...in exchange for dropping the recharge down from 10s to 8s. But if you're running 3x VR PWOs on a full torp boat while maneuvering to keep up a decent firing rate or or are not as concerned with that (blipping makes you a target) - then you'd probably want to go with some Mk XIIs instead. You'd also be looking at the mods in play. The Rapids have [Acc][CrtD][Recharge]...with some Mk XIIs, you could pick your mods. Some [CrtD]x3 Mk XII Trans fired with Spreads that can't miss...and with Accuracy Overflow not being calculated on any attack with an autohit component...well...yeah, kind of the same reason folks would run [CrtD]x3 Quantums.
Also i would like to see how omega boosts your torps so much, 16,6% of dmg dont seem so much for me compared to an additional 12 mines.
Um...16.6%? APO3 with 9 in Attack Patterns provides around +24.8% Bonus Damage. Yes, it's a bonus boost and not a strength boost. That's just the Bonus Damage boost...APO3 also provides the following, where X will be modified by your 9 SAP:
+X All Damage Resistance Rating
+X% Flight Speed
+X% Flight Turn Rate
+X% Defense
Immunity to Movement Debuffs
Immunity to Disable Debuffs
Immunity to Teleport
If they try to use an aoe cleaner, subnuke them for that you have it^^.
And as i already stated, you do not need 2 cluster torpedos, the torpdoffs will reduce 1 to its global cd, maybe think about an bioneural warhead or an tricobalt for additional spike dmg.
Hrmmm, more targetable torps to get eaten up by the spam?
And yes the engine choice i can understand.
Though i cant understand for what you need warpcorepotential.
When you are decloaked you are certainly dead, you will get tracktored, focussed, no healer in the world will safe you then cause of the lack of shildtanking powers, and both engines and aux should be over 60 at wich warp core potential uses nothing, same goes for the efficient captain trait you use. And btw why you use conservation of energie? You dont have energie Weapons
Um, Conversation of Energy buffs his Exotic damage when he's hit by Energy Weapons...not when he uses them.
You are totally right, normal transphasics would be better, i just had no Mk XII ready for my damage calculation. Still i dont really see what the benefit of the photonics shall be that cost 2 consoles and bring less dps than additional transphasics.
His Photons with that build will hit bare hull harder than the Transphasics would. It's also providing him options vs. shielded/unshielded targets...and the Multi is boosting the AA damage (along with his Partigens).
You are right there is totally no sense using 3 photons in Front at all.
Here is how it plays out:
Each torp needs 05. seconds to fire.
After it fired it sets all other torpedos onto a global cd of 1 second.
This means that you can not shoot out more than 1 Torpedo every 1.5 seconds.
Longer CD Torps may also have shared global cd between each of them.
So the Cluster Torp will set all clusters (including itself) on a 15seconds global cd (global cd cant be reduced) and itself on a 45 second normal cd. This means you cant fire more than 1 Cluster every 15 sec, however with 3 torp doffs and constant torp spam you can fire 1 every 15 sek with just 1 launcher.
If you would be so kind to post your build and ship, i think there will be a lot to improve
A reason to run 3 Photons (or others), as mentioned previously would be that 3x PWOs does not guarantee the reduction and can leave you hanging if it fails to proc.
@darinjaneczko
Sorry, but your build wont work out well, exept on infected, cause shooting 80% unshielded targets.
Especially in pvp you wont reach anything because of your quantum torpedos, i think im one of the few making a working quantum build, that unluckily dont works with the t`varo.
You say you deal 8766.3 Damage per shot, however you will get serious problems with shields.
A resilent shield array has a 5% bleedthrough, making your direct damage to hull 8766,3*0,05=438,315 Damage per shot. As you can clearly see you will never kill someone still having his shields like you could with plasma/Transphasic/Undine Photon.
However getting down shilds plays out as follow, because oft he 75% innertia resistent every shield has to kinetic damage: (8766,3-876,63)*0,25=1972,4175 damage to shields per shot.
As you will be fireing 1 Torp every 1.5 sek your Total dps falls down to: (1972,4175+438.315)/1,5=1607,155 total dps, a amount you that will never allow you to do anything decent.
I recommend highly to switch to transphasic as it is very cheap to start with.
Again, your calculations...meh. But beyond that, there are many things you're not considering. Intense Focus, a friendly player dropping out a BO with EWO Pen DOFFs, friendlies simply dropping the target's shields, the new R&D Projectile trait, etc, etc, etc. Seeing that Isk was involved in the other thread mentioned in the other thread, the thought process is likely going to be dropping out Spreads against blipping or recloaking targets that will not have shields in play and obliterating them.
Are you really able to slot the experimental proton weapon in the rear? On my vesta it says it can only be slottet into forward slots, will try again tomorrow.
Yes, many folks run the XPW aft in boosting their Photon builds.
Also your Frontarc is a bit of an overkill.
You have a averange chance of 50% per torp to reduce cd by enough to make your photons ready, so with 2 Torps you will have your torps shooting out at 84,9% of the time,
It's 20% per VR DOFF, for a combined probability of 48.8% chance at the 5s reduction. With two torps, you're looking at a 73.8% probability of at least one proc occurring during two cycles. I'm not sure where you're getting the 84.9% for two torps and three PWO DOFFs.
then you can equib your Cluster in the front and add a minelauncher to the rear. And as i say again, you should be super careful using the photons without a shildstripping option, for that look my comparison between photons and transphasics on the side before this, only the undine torp may be viable, however still not so effective because of the lost punch on the cluster.
But your penetration math was wrong.
A HY3 E-Bio is one of the hardest hitting torps...and...it's non-targetable. You can easily get a 50-60k hit against exposed hull, and there's always folks willing to drop some shield for you.
Something else to keep in mind is that the recharge rates of the Photons vary.
Standard Photons are 6s.
The E-Bio Photon is 6s.
Bio Photons are 7s.
The Grav Photon is 8s.
I dont think your photons will be a good effective in kerrat against an any decent player, he will have a ability to escape your graviwell and gravitorp, also he will have hazzard to clean your undine debuff, and your build has not the defense options to hold vs a good klingon alphastriking bop, you will need to use all your cds and then your build has not the dps to hold on.
Your only option is a VERY good use on Subnuke, however for kerrat it has a too long cd as you normally dont have a team to backup you and it is generally too chaotic.
There are almost always Fedballs or KDFballs going in Ker'rat...
For kerath i would defenitly recommend transphasic for a ship without cloak, a cloaker could go for a spike build of course.
Also i dont like the i can do all but am master off nothing builds, for the start it is just fine but you loose A LOT of potential power.
Also, for the calculation of recharge time also look on my post on top of this page, you can`t reduce the glob cd just the normal cd down to glob cd so mostly your 3rd torp on the front will only fire in 15% of all firecircles wich is a huge punch of lost power - make something better out of it.
Again, in case it was missed...the third torp isn't there to fire - it's there to make sure your other two torps fire.
Hell no, it dont make sense to use the romulan hyperplasma with its relativly low cd and 3x the chance to prock the doffs ( 1time for every torp) backed up by 3 photons that if used alone only 2 could fire because of glob cd.
As i say again: YOU CANT FIRE MORE THAN 1 TORP EVERY 1.5 SEK!! There is no way to do it, exept torp spread and high yield, and of course the romulan hyper fireing 3 torps per cycle.
There are a variety of reasons one might slot the Rom Hypers...
Hey, for sure i know this is just a game, however when you ask something about your build then it may happen someone critisizes it. Also i dont like if someone answers to questions without knowing anything about the game mechanics, because another one might follow your wrong advice, leading to more stupid builds.
And for sure it works in current pve, sou can do estfs with the tier 3 intrepid cause its so ridiciously easy. But if you just think about going to pvp then you should be careful that your build isnt totally TRIBBLE.
And btw, 3 hyper recharges are a bit wasted as well
There's no way I can reply to this particular post without moderator intervention being required somewhere down the line. Suffice to say, one can look at the rest of this post for the numerous corrections that have been made...
I never said i would totally disagree with a photon build, look on the last page, i even recommended it for advanced players.
And i do not see your configuration, neither what ship you are flying.
However i wrote something about your answer to hipachilles, where you said that putting 3 photons in front would make sense, which is not so as 1 of them usually cant fire.
Also i said that a photon build needs to be calculated very well in order to be more effective than a transphasic build for ferderations, for romulans this is kind of different, espeaccialy with the t`varo.
However, i just tested, you CAN place the experimental proton weapon into the rear, making the build quite a bit more viable for a ferderations vessel.
In case you dont run a t`varo, how do you find unshielded targets in pvp?
Unshielded targets are everywhere to be found...the only place you're likely not to find them is in some of the premade matches where folks are rocking that coordination.
I repeat: I was not referring to your build, that i cant see as it isnt posted here, i just referred to your quote where you said that 3 photons in the front would be viable.
I totally see the sense of building a critphoton for uncoordinated mass pvp where there are folks without a healer to support them.
There's all sorts of things one can do with all sorts of things - even against tank healers.
Oh dammed, shame over me, i was mistaken, i referred to hipachilles not to you *_*
Your build of course, is certainly viable and we already discussed this 2 pages ago, sorry for being confused a bit .
Only your second cluster is still not needed, but its not a major disadvantage^^
And again sorry
Mines have a huge advantage on the t`varo with DPB3 as you can place 16 mines for incredible burst, however you need that commander tac, so not perfect for your ship.
16 mines that will be obliterated unless you're off stalking the AFK farmer.
-you are no longer a pure torp-boat, however you need that beambank not for dmg.
-you fly a sience ship
-you have therefore the target subsystem for free
this means with that 1 beamarray you get a lot of benefits in ultility, as you can dmg their systems, maybe take shilds offline, reduce dmg if you get too much etc.
Generally i would say for rear slot on a sience you cant go wrong with a omnidirectional beamarray, however look that it has this 360% firearc so you can fire to all directions.
PS: Sadly the experimental proton weapon does NOT apply target subsystem so you need that beamarray.
Depending on the slots one has available, both BOFFs and DOFFs...there's going to be the effect that the EWO BO Pen DOFFs have as a possible train of thought...
And yes, swap your photon ( the regular) with the cluster, this will allow it to fire more often as you will shoot it out earlier (you normally approuch your enemys frontal, dont you).
Cluster's a targetable that's not likely to survive long either. Target really needs to be asleep at the keyboard...even if they're not, they just hit BFI, PH, AtS and ignore the damage as they drop out a heal.
Some [CrtD]x3 Mk XII Trans fired with Spreads that can't miss...and with Accuracy Overflow not being calculated on any attack with an autohit component...well...yeah, kind of the same reason folks would run [CrtD]x3 Quantums.
First of all, thanks for the insights to all of you. But I always appreciate VirusDancer and his detailed mathematics. I am fairly sure you know this game better than anyone so I hope you will take the time to share a bit more of your thoughts.
Could you explain why accuracy overflow isn't calculated on attacks witht an auto hit? I have never heard that before. So you wouldn't get the extra Crit on hits from torpedo spread? If so would I be wise NOT to focus on Acc so much with 2 copies of Torpedo Spread?
Something else to keep in mind is that the recharge rates of the Photons vary.
Standard Photons are 6s.
The E-Bio Photon is 6s.
Bio Photons are 7s.
The Grav Photon is 8s.
Never noticed this. What would be the best firing order between Grav, Ebio, and regular? Would that change if one of those were swapped for a DBB?
Depending on the slots one has available, both BOFFs and DOFFs...there's going to be the effect that the EWO BO Pen DOFFs have as a possible train of thought...
Say I drop a torpedo in front and add a DBB with Critdx3 with BO and plasmonic leech. I lower Aux power a bit and put it into weapons. I then add the EWO doff. Would I suck enough power from plasmonic to get my Aux and weapons power to levels where this could be a viable build? Or would I be trying to do too much? If I swap out my Tykens for energy siphon would that be enough supplemental power maybe?
Then I would gain from subsystem targeting, since I never realized the experimental never used that power. I just that I was just very unlucky at knocking them offline...
Cluster's a targetable that's not likely to survive long either. Target really needs to be asleep at the keyboard...even if they're not, they just hit BFI, PH, AtS and ignore the damage as they drop out a heal.
So not the best option in front. Would it be ok in rear as I fly by and release? I also assume a bio neural would be no better for that same reason? Another photon torp or omni array instead of cluster? But for PVE it wouldn't matter so much that it is destructible right?
First of all, thanks for the insights to all of you. But I always appreciate VirusDancer and his detailed mathematics. I am fairly sure you know this game better than anyone so I hope you will take the time to share a bit more of your thoughts.
Nah, there's tons of folks that know way more than me...I'm just on the forum a wee bit collecting the info here and there.
Could you explain why accuracy overflow isn't calculated on attacks witht an auto hit? I have never heard that before. So you wouldn't get the extra Crit on hits from torpedo spread? If so would I be wise NOT to focus on Acc so much with 2 copies of Torpedo Spread?
From another thread (heh, like I said - it's mainly from just being on the forums way too much)...
Yes, we're looking into it. Accuracy Overflow won't currently work for any power that "ignores accuracy" - powers that have any autohit stage.
Acc Overflow is a really arcane mechanic that doesn't message well at all. Fixing it will be a widespread change to the mechanic as a whole, not just a change to a flag on Fire at Will. It will take a little while, but it's in the pipeline to be adjusted to work.
Fire at will does have an autohit stage. When you activate Fire At Will, here's what happens to produce the desired end effect:
1.) You gain a "Mode" on your character that lasts for <duration>. While that mode is on your character, all Beam Array and Dual Beam Bank powers are redirected from their standard mode of fire into "Fire At Will" mode.
2.) You activate a Beam Array or DBB. It uses its Fire At Will power. This power emanates a cone in the direction of the weapon's firing arc, automatically hitting 2 targets within that cone. Any targets hit by this cone send a message back to your ship, telling it to shoot them.
3.) Your ship receives the message from all enemies struck in part 2. It then fires single shots at each and every one of them. This stage of the power rolls ToHit rolls based on your accuracy and your target's defense.
Stage 2 has to be autohit for the art to work. Stage 2 has to not be flagged as a "Directed Energy" power for power drain to not count doubly for this ability. Stage 3 has to be flagged as a "Directed Energy" power for procs to work and for power drain to work at all. The power has to be structured in this complex way for it to work the way it does - firing on random ships within the arc, updating which target it hits with each volley.
So while the second was mainly about FAW, I included it all the same for folks that might be wondering. Cause the Torp Spread takes that a step further, where FAW has the autohit for target selection and rolls to hit normally...Torp Spread is autohit for target selection and is also 100% to hit on the selected targets.
So, you'll never miss with your Torp Spreads...but you'll never benefit from the potential Accuracy Overflow that can result from having over a 100% chance to hit. Meh, it's a shame that the Black Wyvern Arts page is down again - it had an awesome online calculator so you didn't have to download the spreadsheet and work through it manually.
So for your Spread attacks, additional Accuracy won't do anything for you. For other attacks (well, as long as there's no autohit component) it would help.
Never noticed this. What would be the best firing order between Grav, Ebio, and regular? Would that change if one of those were swapped for a DBB?
Like torad1 said, you're still going to be looking at a min of 1.5s (1s triggered CD and 0.5s activation delay)...so it would get what DOFFs you were sporting, etc, etc, etc. With using two TS and no HY in the mix, you wouldn't have to worry about the following pesky issue (yes, this is just an aside - something that bothers me and I like to grumble about it...heh):
Say you do the following...
Hit TS..wait 15s...hit HY. You can stack them, since the buff duration on either TS or HY is 30s. You can even wait until there's ~6-7s left on the TS, so that ~5s after you unload - you're able to do the TS again. Course, ~5s in PvP can feel like years - though it can be fun in PvE if you're doing a sort of strafing run to head in and drop out the torps going in, maybe drop some mines, fire more torps on the way out to swing around again. Just have to keep in mind the loss of DPS from being out of arc and not firing anything while going wheee like that!
Or say you hit HY...wait 15s...hit TS. Basically along the lines of the above.
Regardless of whether you do HY/TS or TS/HY, the first torp to fire upon firing torps will be a HY. I've got no idea if it's an alphabetical thing (makes as much/little sense as anything else)...but yeah, that's where the question of what torp to fire when might come up a wee bit more. Cause if you want a TS Grav and a HY E-Bio sort of thing, you've got to set the E-Bio as your first torp to fire even though it may not be the first Torp ability you activate...
...say you were doing something akin to what I mentioned above where you wanted to drop out a HY E-Bio with the TS Grav 1.5s later...and a TS of another following up. You'd actually want to TS first...then HY...so you could get that TS out after the initial TS even though the HY fired first. Meh, I'm not explaining it as well as I would like...could just be frustration. Cause it means I can't do a TS then HY then TS...can only do a HY then TS then TS.
That aside...er...aside, I've never had much luck with torps firing in the suggested order outside of manually setting the torps up with a keybind to fire in a certain order. There's the left to right thing that's supposed to work - and - sometimes it does work. Sometimes it does not work. Sometimes you can get it working only to have it stop working later randomly.
If Torp#1 was a 6s Photon, it's not available for ~1.5s more. Add in the activation delay, and you'd eat a 2s gap between #3 and #1. 7s would make that a 3s gap. 8s wold make that a 4s gap. If Torp#1 was an 8s torp and Torp#2 was a 6s torp, you'd actually see Torp#2 fire before Torp#1. Torp#1 wouldn't actually fire until after Torp#2. Course, there's all sorts of things that can throw that off...it's spreadsheet warrior stuff - there's going to be arcs, UI delay, latency in general, etc, etc, etc.
If you were mainly just concerned with dropping out that initial TS of Grav followed by the E-Bio, you're looking at the following...
If you're running 3x VR PWOs, you've got that 48.8% chance on firing the Grav to reduce its recharge from 8s to 3s...that will be at 2s when the E-Bio fires, which has a 48.8% chance to drop the Grav to 3s as well as the 23.8% chance to drop the Grav to 1s (both first and second firing proc) and the 48.8% chance to drop the E-Bio to 1s.
This is where it definitely gets into questioning why one would run the third torp. Cause you're looking at a 73.8% of getting that Grav to fire again before the third torp. There's a 48.8% chance that the E-Bio will fire again before the third torp. That third torp is an "Insurance Torp" - giving you another 48.8% roll at reducing the recharge so that 1.5s after it fires, that Grav torp will fire again. Giving you that 86.6% probability that at least one of the three torps will trigger the CD reduction.
Cause again, should you not get a proc with the first torp or the second torp...
00.0 trigger Grav
00.5 Grav fires
01.5 trigger E-Bio
02.0 E-Bio fires
it's 6s on the E-Bio
it's 8s on the Grav
That time can end up feeling like ages...
Course, it's going to depend on if the RNG Gods favor you, lol - for some folks, they can rock that fine...me, I'm the guy that always gets 4 Lobi and a crappy 80k EC DOFF pack from lock boxes.
Something else that would open the door to, though, would be not needing 3x VR PWOs. Doesn't matter if they're Common, Uncommon, Rare, or Very Rare - they've all got the same chance. What differs is the recharge reduction. If you're running three torps, then the first torp wouldn't be ready to be triggered until 4.5s anyway. One might feel comfortable running 3x Rare PWOs instead.
Say I drop a torpedo in front and add a DBB with Critdx3 with BO and plasmonic leech. I lower Aux power a bit and put it into weapons. I then add the EWO doff. Would I suck enough power from plasmonic to get my Aux and weapons power to levels where this could be a viable build? Or would I be trying to do too much? If I swap out my Tykens for energy siphon would that be enough supplemental power maybe?
Then I would gain from subsystem targeting, since I never realized the experimental never used that power. I just that I was just very unlucky at knocking them offline...
Hrmm, I should have done a disclaimer thing with the EWO Pen DOFF(s). Cause you're looking at the chance of activation with a short term debuff (can stack)...which can make timing problematic with torps. They don't always hit when they visually hit. Sometimes they'll hit before they visually are anywhere near hitting. So it can be a rough one...and...it can be tough to justify the DOFF slots for one or more on a build that's doing other things.
Then getting into mixing in Leech with a single DBB using BO, well - the BO will consume the normal 4 shots from the 5s firing cycle, meaning you'd only get a single Leech "hit" in 5s. Even without the BO, you'd only be looking at 4 in a 5s period. Nothing quite like running Leech where you're sporting multiple energy weapons that will stack cap it.
The other thing to consider is if you're just using the BO DBB for the EWO Pen proc...then, well - you're not really concerned about the damage it's going to do - so you wouldn't have to change power settings. If you're looking to do the BO with fingers crossed and good timing to take a chunk out of the shields, then you're looking at burning a Weapon Battery or something else to boost...
...and yeah, it starts to get into that trying to do too much. Cause if you feel that you're giving up Aux, you're giving up a bunch when it comes to the Sci aspect...as well as boosts you may be getting from the T4 Nukara Aux Traits.
Have to admit, I'm not much on actual build advice - things that I might risk doing - things I might dork around doing...heh, I'd hardly recommend even if others might recommend them. I much prefer just discussing the underlying mechanics and possibilities - leaving it up to the player to choose what works best for their particular playstyle. There are plenty of folks out there that are much better at giving build advice than me. I usually get complaints about not being able to give a straight answer...heh.
So not the best option in front. Would it be ok in rear as I fly by and release? I also assume a bio neural would be no better for that same reason? Another photon torp or omni array instead of cluster? But for PVE it wouldn't matter so much that it is destructible right?
Not so much as a blanket statement, and my apologies if it came off that way; but more of a situational awareness sort of thing - what's going on and all that, right? I'm used to being in fights where there's alternating FAW spam, Grav Wells, Tyken's Rifts, TBRs, Acetons, pets, and just all sorts of other things where targetable projectiles (torps and mines) simply don't have a very long life expectancy. I used to get slaughtered all the time (heh, but I enjoyed it - a little masochistic glee thing) because a fresh FAW or even a pet would hit my Beachball before I even saw it on the screen. I'd trigger it...~0.5s or so later, I'd be looking at a respawn button.
It's one of those things that you could carry in your inventory or have slotted with another torp in inventory...to play with what would work best in the way things are playing out.
In PvE, it's going to depend on the NPCs - if you're fighting Tholians, they FAW - fighting the Voth and they like their AoE. Gets into what you're fighting and whether you load up with any targetables or not. Can also hold off them, waiting until after they do their AoE madness and then unload them. Another thing to keep in mind is how much aggro they generate...if you unload a targetable at a NPC, there's a pretty good chance they'll just shoot it unless they're already aggro'd on you or something else.
And as I preview this post, yep - can see why I tend not to give build advice and folks hate that I generally can't give a straight answer...I just toss out a bunch of pros and cons.
Cause only the person actually knows what they're looking to do, if they normally fly with a certain group and what's needed, etc, etc, etc...just a case of trying to provide some of the basic info so folks can try to make a more informed choice or think about options they might not have considered and whether they're worth considering for what they're doing...
Hrmm, just want to say...I think I need to double check the 1.5s angle. I know it's the info I've been sharing for some time, but I can't help but wonder what an actual parse will show for the time between some torps on autofire. I'll have to check that out. I'm pretty sure I have before, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to check it again all the same.
Okay, so here are the timestamps from a series of shots fired against a non-moving target at a zero range. The firing ship only had three fore weapon slots and was using standard Photon torpedoes a Mk II, an Uncommon Mk II, and an Uncommon Mk IV. No PWO DOFFs were used. Autofire was used.
For the first series, the number after the timestamp is the time between that torp and the previous torp.
Decided to take a look without Autofire on. This is just spamming the spacebar with FireAll. It's not going to be broken out as neatly, cause I'm honestly not sure which torp was firing when because I was quick spamming the spacebar and the torps stayed the coated look without displaying any CD timers. Though in typing out the time increments, the pattern somewhat begins to appear as far as which torp was which torp...so I'll try to split them that way.
Thanks for the posts virus, always interesting to read.
And ya, the note about my build, it's supposed to be the stabilizer, not the inverter. Brain TRIBBLE moment on my part.
The only thing I want to point out is, cluster torps are actually more than viable in kerrat spam balls. First I hit photonic fleet for some extra spam, warp plasma the target and tractor to kill their defense, shoot. A cluster at point blank and sing jump right after to placate them. Works allot actually. Also the beach ball is just too fun and the console set is too good for me to drop.
Thanks for the posts virus, always interesting to read.
And ya, the note about my build, it's supposed to be the stabilizer, not the inverter. Brain TRIBBLE moment on my part.
The only thing I want to point out is, cluster torps are actually more than viable in kerrat spam balls. First I hit photonic fleet for some extra spam, warp plasma the target and tractor to kill their defense, shoot. A cluster at point blank and sing jump right after to placate them. Works allot actually. Also the beach ball is just too fun and the console set is too good for me to drop.
Heh, I think this was the thread I mentioned luck in...(I'm posting while asleep)...with most Fedball vs. KDFball fights, my targetables are usually gone before I see them on the screen. It's a trip with the Cluster, because it appears as the cluster of mines for a sec and disappears - cause it got hit that fast.
Though, my most epic death was getting caught by a Tric, a spread of Temporals, and a Beachball. Course, they were all mine - they managed to survive some how and all hit my new target from various angles as I was getting ready to unload...died to the splash.
When I run the Beachball (very rarely), I try to drop it from max range above and at an angle - zipping by it to try to avoid getting caught in the splash that almost always happens. I mean, seriously, there will be a guy sitting there - has to be AFK - the moment I trigger the Beachball, the guy's hit FAW and blows it and me up before I even see it on my screen...I'm just boom and waiting on the respawn.
I love the splash torps in ISE for some clump 'n thump action though - the GW gets all the Spheres to aggro me so they don't shoot at the incoming torps...and boom. It's basically fire and forget - drop the torps out and fly to the next side, cause that barrel of Spheres is already dead - they just don't know it yet.
But yeah, my moaning that the Beachball blowing me up without a crit even got old for me. I actually switched out both T'varo pieces and am running the following on Willard:
I still haven't upgraded his three Photon Tac consoles to Advanced yet (partially because I'm doing the whole solo fleet thing - and - honestly I still haven't decided between Locators and Exploiters).
He carries an E-Bio, Grav, 4x Bio, and the XPW that's never fired. His current CrtD/CrtH for each torp (not counting Accuracy Overflow on the HY or normal shots) is...
It's got me leaning toward the Exploiters for an additional +24% CrtD, to get those ratios to 1:4.84, 1:3.87, 1:4.54 - trying to get closer to both the 1:5 and 1:10 ratios (okay, lol - to a 1:5 ratio). Might even mean dropping the boost to the AA damage from the Relay and going with a fourth exploiter...would take the ratios to 1:5.05, 1:4.06, & 1:4.77 respectively.
It's just rough trying to get somewhere from the general 133.0% CrtD & 22.9% CrtH on a Sci.
edit: Heh, but this is a good example of why I try to avoid build advice - what does and doesn't work for me isn't necessarily going to work or not work for anybody else...can just go with the underlying mechanics and let folks find what works for them from experimentation.
Oh I think your advice is great, but no matter what build I'm ever given I always add my personal tweaks that enhance the way I fly.
It's really been more about the fun factor in kerrat recently, so my builds really are just built to be fun to fly but still remain competitive. Example is the beach ball, I mean it's fairly useless for damage in most categories of pvp, but if it does hit and crit on a clump of Feds and kdf it is just amazingly hilarious watching the yellow fly. Also same with the clusters, if they get through and crit they can one shot a recluse. I've had them crit for over 12k per mine, so around 120k total with 80%shield pen. Or just plain out annoying targets with constant minor torp hits that keep them from getting out of red alert. Also acetone now, so even more fun!
I am sure something’s changed with fire rates. Well I have been saying 2 seconds is the average for a while now but still I noticed a few odd things. Half the time torpedo fire right to left; I cannot consistently get them to fire left to right. 100% of the time was either far left working right, or far right working left so there is a pattern. It got to the point where I now put 1 cluster far left and right to make sure they fire at peak.
Projectile doffs seem to have changed when we had a patch about them a while back. The change wasn’t to do with fire rates but I am 90% sure fire rates changed. It used to be two ROF 8 seconds torpedoes with 2 clusters would fire almost none stop. Now they stall a lot with a noticeable amount of downtime. Likewise in the past three ROF 10 seconds torps and 1 cluster would stall a lot now they work.
I used to run with two ROF 8 seconds torpedoes with 2 clusters. Now three ROF 10 seconds torps and 1 cluster is noticeably better. On a 5 front ship I tried 3 ROF 10 seconds torps and 2 clusters and the 2nd cluster hardly fired. That never used to happen.
EDIT: Next to test with all the new shield pen is the raw higher damage of Quantums torpedoes and mines better than Transphasic for bleedthough? Will 25% Bleedthough from Quantums damage beat Transphasic? EDIt Seems not by the math. My Quantum’s torpedoes hit for 8600 so at 25% bleedthough should deal 2150 hull.
Depends on the torpedo used. Yes it is worthwhile for some but not for others.
Thx..I'm switching from cannons/dbb to cannons and e bio torp since the bo nerf. One doff has 20% chance every 6 secs to reduce it to 1 second. Trying to work out if this is worth the doff space.
Thx..I'm switching from cannons/dbb to cannons and e bio torp since the bo nerf. One doff has 20% chance every 6 secs to reduce it to 1 second. Trying to work out if this is worth the doff space.
Thats a tricky one. I wouldnt say its super effective but it will boost DPS. For the most part the best torpedo to use when you only want 1 is the Romulan Hyper-Plasma with doffs. That shoots 3 times per volley and each shot has a chance to trigger the doffs.
I'm currently running my T'Varo as a quantum boat, and I got a great suggestion to add quantum mines to the mix to see if there is an improvement in damage output. This is probably on the short list today.
One thing I have not tried yet is using transphasics while running two piece AMACO. I've used the Breen set, the Borg set (for the power boosts to help my [AMP] core boost damage), and combinations using the Romulan engine with bonuses to attack patterns. Since building the Counter Command deflector, I'm curious to see if there is any improvement.
EDIT I wonder what would happen with Counter Command deflector and the engine and shields from the Breen set.
Ok, as i see i got a few things totally wrong.
First of all, thank you virusdancer for correcting my mistakes, i though have a few questions now.
Now to the mistakes i have done:
1. I weren`t sure how the bonus torp-dmg points occur, so i left the undine deflektor out of my calculation, thanks for telling me how it works, same why i did not included the skilled points into the (torp) weapong dmg.
The 0.3% misscalculation of bonus dmg was a math-mistake by me, sorry for that.
Also, sorry for not using the correct words, i dont know every high end jargon, so i used what i thought was right.
Also for my example i used a easy example, exluding a few factors. First as i wrote i ignored crith and critdmg, as that would have made the math so complex that i feared that my 10th class math would highly possible lead me to mistakes.
Also i simply used a rapid reload transphasic, cause i did the calcs on a unskilled toon so i only had those free torp to look onto the tooltip.
Secondly with basedamage i ment the dmg the torp shows without any buffs for him.
Also i did not calculated bonus dmg buffs from things like tt or apo, cause they arent always active.
Also, if your torpdoffs didnt procced, simply turn around and fire your backtorps to close the gap.
Next point: Transphasics. My Tooltip tells me that my transphasic torpedos have an additional 20% shieldpenetration, so i dont see how you get your 40% pen?
Yes the counter command was to get the 26% radiation damage, i think this will bring greater benefits to hull dmg than 5% bonus damage.
Again, i ignored Crith and critdmg, i did not forgot them.
Next point, i again used the tooltip for basedamage, sorry for using wrong words, lets call it tooltip-ground-damage-without-buffs
Also if you see i already wrote that it is countered by hazzardemitters.
And for pvp, he tolds what he does is kerrat, what i found out recently quite a lot of targetable torps get through there.
Also i never got infected with a debuff i would have needed to cleanse with tt in kerrat, and normally when i get decloaked im dead anyways.
And moment the t`varo is for sure no b`rel, but it exels the same point with its ebc.
and i never noticed my engine power fell under 50 while aux is at 125, and as i say there is no need for shilds and weapons.
And hey, in kerrath there is mostly no concentrated thing, so a aceton can do wonders because it doesnt get torped too often.
And attack patterns? Im not sure on a sci captain what will benefit that much.
And hey, you can subnuke that faw to get your beachball through- at least for me it does hit quite often and i die almost never to it.
And i only talked about rapid fires, cause they were the ones i had on my toon for testing, for sure a mk XII Will benefit more, however you dont get it for free.
And yes, tehre are reasons to use the romulan hyper plas, however not to use the romulan hyper plas+3 photon torps.
Been playing around with an extra 6% shield pen and seeing some pretty impressive numbers so far. With Quantums basic hull bleed though is around about 950 for me per shot. With the extra 6% pen I get around about 1350 per shot which in turn means more from the shearing trait. Still only level 13 crafting so a while yet before I can add on the last 15% shield pen. Should be some crazy numbers with the extra pen and/or pattern beta.
Did anyone confirm what the new trait shield hardness does?
Meh, I wouldn't say totally wrong...and I've been told I can come off as an TRIBBLE at times with things, and in reading back through that - it was a case where I was probably coming off as one. My apologies for that. Like I said in another reply to somebody, I'm no guru - nothing like that - have just collected a bunch of data from random testing and from what a lot of the good folks out there have shared...
I guess I'm just a wee bit burnt out with some of the issues with the game - the way things are being handled - and - meh, that bled through (no pun intended) in the post. I've been trying to avoid posting of late, because I keep coming off like a douche...meh.
First of all, thank you virusdancer for correcting my mistakes, i though have a few questions now.
Now to the mistakes i have done:
1. I weren`t sure how the bonus torp-dmg points occur, so i left the undine deflektor out of my calculation, thanks for telling me how it works, same why i did not included the skilled points into the (torp) weapong dmg.
Heh, it's just one of those back and forth things with a few folks and the devs trying to get tidbits of info from them.
The 0.3% misscalculation of bonus dmg was a math-mistake by me, sorry for that.
Didn't mean to come off harsh, and I have no problem with myself being wrong on something - as long as the correct information gets out in the end (don't have an ego where I need to be right, just the info was right)...so my saying I had no iidea where you got that, wasn't an attack - it was literally me saying I didn't know...so if you had information that superceded what I had; I'd have appreciated knowing how you got there so that I could share that in the future.
Also, sorry for not using the correct words, i dont know every high end jargon, so i used what i thought was right.
No need to apologize in the least - much of it comes from Cryptic's own tooltips and the fight with them to standardize them at times. Cause we've got things like the 2pc Ordnance which provides +7.5% Bonus Damage and the 2pc Silent Enemy which provides +7.6% Damage Strength. There are several things here and there, where they're not so neatly labeled and it's caused all sorts of confusion and disappointment as folks drop out some resources for a boost that's not as good as they thought it would be.
There was a lot of the devs wondering what we meant with what we were saying and us wondering what they meant with what they were saying...and we finally got one of them to say what they call some of the stuff, and yeah - I've been trying to push that terminology since so everybody was kind of on the same page. So again, no need to apologize in the least.
Also for my example i used a easy example, exluding a few factors. First as i wrote i ignored crith and critdmg, as that would have made the math so complex that i feared that my 10th class math would highly possible lead me to mistakes.
Entirely on me, in the way I read it - read it as not a case of ignoring it for the example, but as ignoring it as a whole. That's entirely on me. My apologies for that.
Also i did not calculated bonus dmg buffs from things like tt or apo, cause they arent always active.
It's just about discussing the range of damage one might see - how one might go from a pressure situation to more of a spike situation...and what they might be looking at as far as raw damage goes.
Also, if your torpdoffs didnt procced, simply turn around and fire your backtorps to close the gap.
Flipping the boat's going to be a loss of DPS while you're out of arc. The more time you spend outside of the front/aft 90s, the more time you're not doing anything sort of thing. Heh, I really tank Willard's DPS from doing that - flying around going wheeeee out of arc...lol, oh well.
Next point: Transphasics. My Tooltip tells me that my transphasic torpedos have an additional 20% shieldpenetration, so i dont see how you get your 40% pen?
Hovertip in inventory...
Rapid Reload Transphasic Torpedo Launcher Mk XI
Very Rare Ship Weapon
Bound to Character
Vice Admiral
Values do not reflect skills or other modifiers
Rapid Fire Transphasic Torpedo Kinetic Damage with 40% Bonus Shield Penetration 90' targeting arc
3437.3 Kinetic Damage (404.4 DPS)
+20% Critical Severity
+10% Accuracy
Value: 67,886 EC
Hovertip from hotbar/actionbar...
Rapid Fire Transphasic Torpedo Kinetic Damage with 40% Bonus Shield Penetration Targets Foe
90' targeting arc
3.437.3 Kinetic Damage (404.4 DPS)
10% chance: Confuse targets for 3 sec when hitting with Torpedo weapons
50% Chance: Lesser of -20 or -20% Able Crew
10% Chance: Lesser of -10 or -10% Alive Crew
+20% Critical Severity
+10% Accuracy
Right-click info...
Rapid Reload Transphasic Torpedo Launcher Mk XI
Very Rare Ship Weapon
Bound to Character
Vice Admiral
Torpedo launchers fire projectiles that deal heavy kinetic damage. Shields drastically reduce the effects of kinetic damage. Transphasic projectiles deal average damage with a long recharge and have a chance for increased shield penetration. The modified rapid fire transphasic torpedo launcher has microfriction autoloaders and superconducting capacitors that reduce the reload time.
Values do not reflect skills or other modifiers
Rapid Fire Transphasic Torpedo Transphasic torpedoes have an additional 40% shield penetration.Torpedoes are high damage projectiles that are effective against ship hulls, but shields absorb most of the impact.
Targets Foe
90' targeting arc
10 kilometer range
0.5 sec activate
8 sec recharge
3,437.3 Kinetic Damage (404.4 DPS)
10% chance: Confuse targets for 3 sec when hitting with Torpedo weapons
50% Chance: Lesser of -20 or -20% Able Crew
10% Chance: Lesser of -10 or -10% Alive Crew
+20% Critical Severity
+10% Accuracy
Skills that affect this ability:
Starship Weapons Training
(Improves All Weapon Damage)
Starship Projectile Weapon Training
(Improves Kinetic Weapon Damage)
Next point, i again used the tooltip for basedamage, sorry for using wrong words, lets call it tooltip-ground-damage-without-buffs
No worries, it's what it is commonly called by folks. It's only an issue if they try to run any calculations on it cause expectations won't match up with the numbers they actually see.
Also if you see i already wrote that it is countered by hazzardemitters.
I have a tendency to point out pros and cons...over and over again, since I tend to avoid trying to say one way or the other - just a case of getting folks the info so they can make their own decision.
And for pvp, he tolds what he does is kerrat, what i found out recently quite a lot of targetable torps get through there.
Yep, like I said in the other reply - folks experiences will vary. Heh, in another thread I dropped out a pair of videos from matches folks had - one from 2011 and one from earlier this year. The 2011 was nice and clear, folks going at it...the 2014 match looked like a cat ate a box of crayons and threw up on the screen.
I even switched out the torps on Willard to hit up Ker'rat, going with mostly targetables...and...yeah, very few if any got anywhere near a target - even if dropped within 1 km of the target.
Also i never got infected with a debuff i would have needed to cleanse with tt in kerrat, and normally when i get decloaked im dead anyways.
APB from FAW boats, APD from targets caught by Spreads, etc, etc, etc. You're looking at not only damage resistance debuffs but also stealth debuffs.
Willard gets decloaked...he's sporting 41,730 hull and 10,851 shields. Basic shield damage reduction without any buffs would be 31.9% - TSS2 takes it to 44.5% - the Bio shield takes it to 56.7% - Sci Fleet takes that to 85.7%. Hull Damage resistance is pretty low to start, 18.6% - but is easily buffed to 62-67%.
Uncloaked Defense is going to be somewhere between 85% to 185% (EM, APO, MEF).
There's QSM, Singularity Jump, dropping out Photonics and Nimbus, dropping out Aceton...
There's the Confuse proc from torps, there's the placate proc from the KHG shields...
And moment the t`varo is for sure no b`rel, but it exels the same point with its ebc.
Meant as far as survivability.
Fleet T'varo: 29,700 base hull & 0.99 shield mod
Fleet B'rel: 27,225 base hull & 0.88 shield mod
9 in Starship Structural Integrity takes the F.T'varo to 38,610 hull and the F.B'rel to 35,392.5 hull. That 2475 difference becomes 3217.5 - and - the more the hull gets boosted, the more that difference grows. And since the effective hull health plays off the combination of hull and damage resistance, that difference only continues to grow. The shield mod's not only going to be affecting the shield capacity, but anything that affects shield capacity - as well as affecting shield regen.
And attack patterns? Im not sure on a sci captain what will benefit that much.
APO3 w/ 9 SAP...
+24.8% All Damage (this is bonus damage, it affects all damage - weapon and exotic)
+37.4 All Damage Resistance Rating (this takes me from 18.6% damage resistance to 36.9%)
+173.2% Speed/Turn (this takes me from 30.82 speed to 60.55 and from 48.9 turn to 74.8)
+44.9% Defense (this takes me from 135.0% bonus defense to 177.6%)
APO3 w/ 0 SAP...
+16.6% All Damage
+25 All Damage Resistance
+X% Speed/Turn (can't remember the untrained numbers there)
+30% Defense
APO is one of the most powerful abilities in the game...and 9000 skill points is damn cheap for the boosts you get from it.
And i only talked about rapid fires, cause they were the ones i had on my toon for testing, for sure a mk XII Will benefit more, however you dont get it for free.
Ah ok, now i see a few things clearer.
Also i found out my biggest mistake: The german sto launcher clealy says that transphasics have 20% additional Shieldpenetration, the english says 40%. i now set my launcher to english to avoid further mistakes.
And hey, i did not got your tread wrong, i never thought you tried to attack me^^, but still thanks for the apologize
Back to the Photon builds that were previously theorized about, I finally got some of the good stuff last night after discovering Elite STFs (both Borg and 8472).
There are relevant traits and a close likeness to my skill tree. I'm using three purple PWOs (firing at the global cd pretty much all the time, well global cd + activation time...), a Hazard (Don't remember the full name, but the one that improves Hazard Emitters) Officer, and a Fabrication Engineer (for RSP). I attempted to put the traits on the bio torps, but they may not be 100% accurate.
Now to the effectiveness, I haven't parsed it, but I'd hazard that it's doing close to 15k dps without including the crits, which are relatively often and are in the 20k+ damage range. I used this build in Elite Conduit last night and I'm pretty sure I dominated in damage output because of the 25-45k crits. I still need the MACO 2-piece and the Fleet Tactical Consoles. This is by far my favorite ship!
ps, can anyone recommend a good parser? I'd like to see exactly what my dps is. Thanks!
Back to the Photon builds that were previously theorized about, I finally got some of the good stuff last night after discovering Elite STFs (both Borg and 8472).
There are relevant traits and a close likeness to my skill tree. I'm using three purple PWOs (firing at the global cd pretty much all the time, well global cd + activation time...), a Hazard (Don't remember the full name, but the one that improves Hazard Emitters) Officer, and a Fabrication Engineer (for RSP). I attempted to put the traits on the bio torps, but they may not be 100% accurate.
Now to the effectiveness, I haven't parsed it, but I'd hazard that it's doing close to 15k dps without including the crits, which are relatively often and are in the 20k+ damage range. I used this build in Elite Conduit last night and I'm pretty sure I dominated in damage output because of the 25-45k crits. I still need the MACO 2-piece and the Fleet Tactical Consoles. This is by far my favorite ship!
ps, can anyone recommend a good parser? I'd like to see exactly what my dps is. Thanks!
Have you tried at least 1 photon mine in the rear with or without the double mine range trait?There is little point in 3 rear torps so a mine will boost DPS. and your consoles already boost the mine damage. You might find another DPS boost is to replace 1 forward photon with a cluster. The 4th front torp will rarely fire so you may as well have it as a slow RoF high damage torp.
It might be going to far for your build but personally I could stick a Hargh’peng and Breen cluster with 2 photons in the front. The two photons keep at almost max fire rate and the rare times they do not fire you get the hard hitting cluster and Hargh’peng shots.
Comments
I totally see the sense of building a critphoton for uncoordinated mass pvp where there are folks without a healer to support them.
Your build of course, is certainly viable and we already discussed this 2 pages ago, sorry for being confused a bit
Only your second cluster is still not needed, but its not a major disadvantage^^
And again sorry
Gotcha. I see now that there was a misunderstanding. I was not seeking help with my build. I was responding to hipachillies' question and was giving a bit of history to the build I posted in post #131 at the top of page 14. That build was not originally designed for pvp as I don't usually do pvps. However, I'm running a lesser version of it now and it's pretty effective in pve. I think it would do ok in a group pvp as fire support. Is it the best? Certainly not! I freely admit that. But I have fun with it.
I should clarify I mainly Stf and kerrat is for farming not PVP. My pvp is only defensive while killing borg. I do crystalline and am always 1st or 2nd place already.
What you could consider to slot into the back: tricobalt torp ( additional burst).
The omnidirectional beam array ( You can take the antirproton you can get for free from the obelisk mission) - this would be my favourite:
-you are no longer a pure torp-boat, however you need that beambank not for dmg.
-you fly a sience ship
-you have therefore the target subsystem for free
this means with that 1 beamarray you get a lot of benefits in ultility, as you can dmg their systems, maybe take shilds offline, reduce dmg if you get too much etc.
Generally i would say for rear slot on a sience you cant go wrong with a omnidirectional beamarray, however look that it has this 360% firearc so you can fire to all directions.
PS: Sadly the experimental proton weapon does NOT apply target subsystem so you need that beamarray.
And yes, swap your photon ( the regular) with the cluster, this will allow it to fire more often as you will shoot it out earlier (you normally approuch your enemys frontal, dont you).
Okay then...
The Fluidic Counter Assault Deflector provides +17.5 Starship Projectile Weapons. Each point of SPW provides +0.5% damage strength. The +17.5 from the deflector provides +8.75% damage strength.
Bonus Damage and Base Damage are specific terms.
0.957 + 0.25 + 0.116 = 1.323; without taking into account the Fluidic Deflector. Not sure where you got 1.326 from. The +0.0875 would take it to 1.4105 for your multiplier. That's not including any skills, either. Regardless, those would be strength boosts and not bonus boosts. Bonus Damage is a specific term that applies to certain damage boosts but not others.
A standardized formula for determining raw damage would be the following:
BaseMagnitude = Base * (1 + WeaponPowerBoost) * (1 + WeaponAbilityBoost)
RawDamage = BaseMagnitude * (1 + SumAllStrengthBoosts) * (1 + SumAllBonusBoosts)
We can leave WeaponPowerBoost in the formula for projectiles, because with Weapon Power providing no direct boost to projectile damage; we'd have 1 + 0 for the formula.
The 2104.4 of the Rapid Reload Transphasic Mk XI (Very Rare) is not the base damage. Base Damage, like Bonus Damage, is a specific term - in this case it refers to the TRIBBLE/Mk 0 damage of a weapon (even if the weapon does not exist at TRIBBLE/Mk 0, the base damage can still be calculated).
Can take a look at a few things (making sure we have no Bonus boosts active, as they could throw the math off if not accounted for in the calculations).
3092 hovertip in normal space.
+9% (TT1): 3180; 3180 - 3092 = 88 / 0.09 = 977.8
+25% (2pc KHG): 3336.4; 3336.4 - 3092 = 244.4 / 0.25 = 977.6
+28.1% (VR Mk XI console): 3367; 3367 - 3092 = 275 / 0.281 = 978.6
We know the tooltips tend to deal in rounding, so that the +28.1% is actually more than just +28.1%, etc, etc, etc. In certain spreadsheets out there, the number will simply be listed as 978 to account for that possible rounding action. Given the existence of damage variation anyway, it's not going to be an exact number anyway.
With the 3x VR PWOs, you're looking at a 48.8% chance of a proc from a single torp to drop the recharge by 5s (from 8s to 3s). The second torp will give you another 48.8% chance of a proc, which would either drop the 8s to 3s if the first failed or the 3s to 1s. Course, with the 1.5s delay between the two, you only need one of the two torps to proc to get the steady 1.5s flow. You're looking at a 73.8% probability of at least one of the torps triggering that proc. Which also means you're looking at a 26.2% probability of getting neither proc which can leave you hanging. With three torps, there's an 86.6% probability of it triggering at least once. Sure, you face the 3rd torp not firing - but you've got a better probability of not being left hanging because of a missed proc.
Um, that's not how the 40% Bonus Penetration of Transphasics works. Here, I slapped a random Transphasic from the Exchange on a toon and shot at a Bulwark. NPC's generally have standard shields (non-Resilient) - never noticed one having something otherwise, so it's possible...but it's generally going to be non-Resilient.
14:08:09:16:02:32.7::Nivuh,P[5261992@4209758 Nivuh@virusdancer],,*,Voth Bulwark Battleship,C[85151 Space_Voth_Battleship],Transphasic Torpedo,Pn.Usr4f31,Shield,,-368.252,-1832.1
14:08:09:16:02:32.7::Nivuh,P[5261992@4209758 Nivuh@virusdancer],,*,Voth Bulwark Battleship,C[85151 Space_Voth_Battleship],Transphasic Torpedo,Pn.Usr4f31,Kinetic,,1560.68,3392.78
For anybody not aware of what that is, those are the two lines from a combat log after you type /combatlog 1 - and - it writes out a text file of damage/healing that's taking place. It's /combatlog 0 to turn it off.
But anyway, the first line is the shield line and the second is the hull line - you've got the timestamp, attacker, target, attack, and then the stuff we want to look at - will look at both pairs of numbers at the end, eh?
Shield: -368.252, -1832.1
Hull: 1560.68, 3392.78
The -368.252 is the damage to the shields. The -1832.1 is the damage the shields prevented from hitting the hull. The 1560.68 is the damage to hull. The 3392.78 is the raw damage of the attack.
This shows us that the target had ~79.9% shield damage reduction against the torp. (1 - (ShieldDamage / PreventedDamage)
But enough about the shield angle, cause we're talking about the bleedthrough here. And it shows us that we had 46% bleedthrough/penetration. Which is what we would expect...
Because the Transphasics have +40% Bonus Penetration, meaning that the penetration resistance of the target would only be 60% of what it was.
non-Resilient Shield: 90%; 0.9 * 0.6 = 0.54 or 54% penetration resistance...46% bleedthrough/penetration
Resilient Shield: 95%; 0.95 * 0.6 = 0.57 or 57% penetration resistance...43% bleedthrough/penetration
The Multi Relay is a curious choice instead of a third Advanced Tac console. Is it a case of dropping Aceton Assimilators or a plethora of the Bio Torps for the +Rad? Even there, one would have to take a look at their overall CrtH/CrtD to see if they wouldn't get more out of the third Advanced Tac console. Running it with the E-Bio torp for the +7.5% Bonus Disruptor/Phaser damage for perhaps an Omni Directional Disruptor/Phaser for subsystem targeting?
The 2pc Protonic Arsenal not only provides the +22.9% strength boost, but it also gives you a general +3% CrtH boost...that will increase your Critical Hit Chance on any of your attacks. Likewise, since you mentioned the 3pc Protonic - that would give you an additional +10% CrtH for your Photons while also providing a general +10% CrtD boost...that will increase the Critical Severity of all your Critical Hits.
The base damage of Photon torpedoes is 1352.
It's not just HE that will cleanse that particular debuff. Don't forget the WCE (Cleanse) DOFFs, that have a 20%/30%/40% proc to cleanse all debuffs on an EPtX activation.
Hrmm, well - there's the previous issue of how penetration/bleedthrough works and kind of ignoring the shields having any damage reduction beyond the initial 75% innate...
In mentioning the Breen Cluster and PvP, one needs to keep in mind that it is a targetable torp and thus subject to all sorts of spam that will prevent it from reaching its intended target.
Dropping mines out on a spam infested map where they will be obliterated is a pretty large waste of a Commander Tac slot compared to all the benefits he's getting from the APO3...and is oft something better suited to where he's got it slotted at Lt with a DPB1 for when the opportunity may present itself.
Wow...seriously? To clear various debuffs - for some shield distro after getting decloaked during a getaway...um, yeah - the TT is pretty much needed.
Kinetic damage is one of the larger problems a T'varo or a B'rel will face - Torp Spreads have 100% to hit and will not miss outside of using the Fluidic console at just the right time.
Oh really? The T'varo is not a B'rel.
He'd want the 125 Aux for the most benefit from the pair of Nukara Aux traits...meaning Aux is going to be pumped as much as possible, even with the boost from the +Aux Tech. There's also going to be the shifting of power while decloaked - etc, etc, etc.
He's already got 9 Weapons and 9 Projectiles...unless it's been changed in the interim.
Grav will help the Tractor. Partigens will help the Tractor and EWP. And yes, the Grav Rifts from the Grav Photon.
+100 Flow gives +7.5 drain/sec...for something that's easily destroyed every 45s it's dropped out.
Perhaps if he was running the Jem Mk XII or Romulan Deflector while also running TDF...but the T'varo is not a Sci ship and has a weaker base for Stealth Detection.
Would get more damage out of 2pc AMACO with the Romulan engine for the boost to Starship Attack Patterns than he'd get out of the Undine Deflector.
Dropping the Beachball out amidst all the potential spam out there is a good way to get oneself blown up. With it being the Singularity Inverter and Destabilizer (unless the Inverter was meant to be the Stabilizer), would probably even want to drop the Beachball in favor of another console.
Probably need to take another look at your calculations...as well as recommending the Rapid Trans. The Rapid Trans are only Mk XI, so they've got around 10.207% less damage strength than Mk XII Trans would have...in exchange for dropping the recharge down from 10s to 8s. But if you're running 3x VR PWOs on a full torp boat while maneuvering to keep up a decent firing rate or or are not as concerned with that (blipping makes you a target) - then you'd probably want to go with some Mk XIIs instead. You'd also be looking at the mods in play. The Rapids have [Acc][CrtD][Recharge]...with some Mk XIIs, you could pick your mods. Some [CrtD]x3 Mk XII Trans fired with Spreads that can't miss...and with Accuracy Overflow not being calculated on any attack with an autohit component...well...yeah, kind of the same reason folks would run [CrtD]x3 Quantums.
Um...16.6%? APO3 with 9 in Attack Patterns provides around +24.8% Bonus Damage. Yes, it's a bonus boost and not a strength boost. That's just the Bonus Damage boost...APO3 also provides the following, where X will be modified by your 9 SAP:
+X All Damage Resistance Rating
+X% Flight Speed
+X% Flight Turn Rate
+X% Defense
Immunity to Movement Debuffs
Immunity to Disable Debuffs
Immunity to Teleport
Hrmmm, more targetable torps to get eaten up by the spam?
Um, Conversation of Energy buffs his Exotic damage when he's hit by Energy Weapons...not when he uses them.
...pass...
His Photons with that build will hit bare hull harder than the Transphasics would. It's also providing him options vs. shielded/unshielded targets...and the Multi is boosting the AA damage (along with his Partigens).
A reason to run 3 Photons (or others), as mentioned previously would be that 3x PWOs does not guarantee the reduction and can leave you hanging if it fails to proc.
Again, your calculations...meh. But beyond that, there are many things you're not considering. Intense Focus, a friendly player dropping out a BO with EWO Pen DOFFs, friendlies simply dropping the target's shields, the new R&D Projectile trait, etc, etc, etc. Seeing that Isk was involved in the other thread mentioned in the other thread, the thought process is likely going to be dropping out Spreads against blipping or recloaking targets that will not have shields in play and obliterating them.
Yes, many folks run the XPW aft in boosting their Photon builds.
First of all, thanks for the insights to all of you. But I always appreciate VirusDancer and his detailed mathematics. I am fairly sure you know this game better than anyone so I hope you will take the time to share a bit more of your thoughts.
Could you explain why accuracy overflow isn't calculated on attacks witht an auto hit? I have never heard that before. So you wouldn't get the extra Crit on hits from torpedo spread? If so would I be wise NOT to focus on Acc so much with 2 copies of Torpedo Spread?
Never noticed this. What would be the best firing order between Grav, Ebio, and regular? Would that change if one of those were swapped for a DBB?
Say I drop a torpedo in front and add a DBB with Critdx3 with BO and plasmonic leech. I lower Aux power a bit and put it into weapons. I then add the EWO doff. Would I suck enough power from plasmonic to get my Aux and weapons power to levels where this could be a viable build? Or would I be trying to do too much? If I swap out my Tykens for energy siphon would that be enough supplemental power maybe?
Then I would gain from subsystem targeting, since I never realized the experimental never used that power. I just that I was just very unlucky at knocking them offline...
So not the best option in front. Would it be ok in rear as I fly by and release? I also assume a bio neural would be no better for that same reason? Another photon torp or omni array instead of cluster? But for PVE it wouldn't matter so much that it is destructible right?
Nah, there's tons of folks that know way more than me...I'm just on the forum a wee bit collecting the info here and there.
From another thread (heh, like I said - it's mainly from just being on the forums way too much)...
So while the second was mainly about FAW, I included it all the same for folks that might be wondering. Cause the Torp Spread takes that a step further, where FAW has the autohit for target selection and rolls to hit normally...Torp Spread is autohit for target selection and is also 100% to hit on the selected targets.
So, you'll never miss with your Torp Spreads...but you'll never benefit from the potential Accuracy Overflow that can result from having over a 100% chance to hit. Meh, it's a shame that the Black Wyvern Arts page is down again - it had an awesome online calculator so you didn't have to download the spreadsheet and work through it manually.
Big Red (somebody that oozed knowledge of the game) dropped out this thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=218273 :based on info Geko gave STOked about Accuracy vs. Defense.
So for your Spread attacks, additional Accuracy won't do anything for you. For other attacks (well, as long as there's no autohit component) it would help.
Like torad1 said, you're still going to be looking at a min of 1.5s (1s triggered CD and 0.5s activation delay)...so it would get what DOFFs you were sporting, etc, etc, etc. With using two TS and no HY in the mix, you wouldn't have to worry about the following pesky issue (yes, this is just an aside - something that bothers me and I like to grumble about it...heh):
Say you do the following...
Hit TS..wait 15s...hit HY. You can stack them, since the buff duration on either TS or HY is 30s. You can even wait until there's ~6-7s left on the TS, so that ~5s after you unload - you're able to do the TS again. Course, ~5s in PvP can feel like years - though it can be fun in PvE if you're doing a sort of strafing run to head in and drop out the torps going in, maybe drop some mines, fire more torps on the way out to swing around again. Just have to keep in mind the loss of DPS from being out of arc and not firing anything while going wheee like that!
Or say you hit HY...wait 15s...hit TS. Basically along the lines of the above.
Regardless of whether you do HY/TS or TS/HY, the first torp to fire upon firing torps will be a HY. I've got no idea if it's an alphabetical thing (makes as much/little sense as anything else)...but yeah, that's where the question of what torp to fire when might come up a wee bit more. Cause if you want a TS Grav and a HY E-Bio sort of thing, you've got to set the E-Bio as your first torp to fire even though it may not be the first Torp ability you activate...
...say you were doing something akin to what I mentioned above where you wanted to drop out a HY E-Bio with the TS Grav 1.5s later...and a TS of another following up. You'd actually want to TS first...then HY...so you could get that TS out after the initial TS even though the HY fired first. Meh, I'm not explaining it as well as I would like...could just be frustration. Cause it means I can't do a TS then HY then TS...can only do a HY then TS then TS.
That aside...er...aside, I've never had much luck with torps firing in the suggested order outside of manually setting the torps up with a keybind to fire in a certain order. There's the left to right thing that's supposed to work - and - sometimes it does work. Sometimes it does not work. Sometimes you can get it working only to have it stop working later randomly.
But anyway...
00.0 trigger Torp#1
00.5 Torp#1 fires
01.5 trigger Torp#2
02.0 Torp#2 fires
03.0 trigger Torp#3
03.5 Torp#3 fires
04.5...and hrmm, right?
If Torp#1 was a 6s Photon, it's not available for ~1.5s more. Add in the activation delay, and you'd eat a 2s gap between #3 and #1. 7s would make that a 3s gap. 8s wold make that a 4s gap. If Torp#1 was an 8s torp and Torp#2 was a 6s torp, you'd actually see Torp#2 fire before Torp#1. Torp#1 wouldn't actually fire until after Torp#2. Course, there's all sorts of things that can throw that off...it's spreadsheet warrior stuff - there's going to be arcs, UI delay, latency in general, etc, etc, etc.
If you were mainly just concerned with dropping out that initial TS of Grav followed by the E-Bio, you're looking at the following...
00.0 trigger Grav
00.5 Grav fires
01.5 trigger E-Bio
02.0 E-Bio fires
03.0 trigger Photon of choice
03.5 Photon fires
If you're running 3x VR PWOs, you've got that 48.8% chance on firing the Grav to reduce its recharge from 8s to 3s...that will be at 2s when the E-Bio fires, which has a 48.8% chance to drop the Grav to 3s as well as the 23.8% chance to drop the Grav to 1s (both first and second firing proc) and the 48.8% chance to drop the E-Bio to 1s.
This is where it definitely gets into questioning why one would run the third torp. Cause you're looking at a 73.8% of getting that Grav to fire again before the third torp. There's a 48.8% chance that the E-Bio will fire again before the third torp. That third torp is an "Insurance Torp" - giving you another 48.8% roll at reducing the recharge so that 1.5s after it fires, that Grav torp will fire again. Giving you that 86.6% probability that at least one of the three torps will trigger the CD reduction.
Cause again, should you not get a proc with the first torp or the second torp...
00.0 trigger Grav
00.5 Grav fires
01.5 trigger E-Bio
02.0 E-Bio fires
it's 6s on the E-Bio
it's 8s on the Grav
That time can end up feeling like ages...
Course, it's going to depend on if the RNG Gods favor you, lol - for some folks, they can rock that fine...me, I'm the guy that always gets 4 Lobi and a crappy 80k EC DOFF pack from lock boxes.
Something else that would open the door to, though, would be not needing 3x VR PWOs. Doesn't matter if they're Common, Uncommon, Rare, or Very Rare - they've all got the same chance. What differs is the recharge reduction. If you're running three torps, then the first torp wouldn't be ready to be triggered until 4.5s anyway. One might feel comfortable running 3x Rare PWOs instead.
Hrmm, I should have done a disclaimer thing with the EWO Pen DOFF(s). Cause you're looking at the chance of activation with a short term debuff (can stack)...which can make timing problematic with torps. They don't always hit when they visually hit. Sometimes they'll hit before they visually are anywhere near hitting. So it can be a rough one...and...it can be tough to justify the DOFF slots for one or more on a build that's doing other things.
Then getting into mixing in Leech with a single DBB using BO, well - the BO will consume the normal 4 shots from the 5s firing cycle, meaning you'd only get a single Leech "hit" in 5s. Even without the BO, you'd only be looking at 4 in a 5s period. Nothing quite like running Leech where you're sporting multiple energy weapons that will stack cap it.
The other thing to consider is if you're just using the BO DBB for the EWO Pen proc...then, well - you're not really concerned about the damage it's going to do - so you wouldn't have to change power settings. If you're looking to do the BO with fingers crossed and good timing to take a chunk out of the shields, then you're looking at burning a Weapon Battery or something else to boost...
...and yeah, it starts to get into that trying to do too much. Cause if you feel that you're giving up Aux, you're giving up a bunch when it comes to the Sci aspect...as well as boosts you may be getting from the T4 Nukara Aux Traits.
Have to admit, I'm not much on actual build advice - things that I might risk doing - things I might dork around doing...heh, I'd hardly recommend even if others might recommend them. I much prefer just discussing the underlying mechanics and possibilities - leaving it up to the player to choose what works best for their particular playstyle. There are plenty of folks out there that are much better at giving build advice than me. I usually get complaints about not being able to give a straight answer...heh.
Not so much as a blanket statement, and my apologies if it came off that way; but more of a situational awareness sort of thing - what's going on and all that, right? I'm used to being in fights where there's alternating FAW spam, Grav Wells, Tyken's Rifts, TBRs, Acetons, pets, and just all sorts of other things where targetable projectiles (torps and mines) simply don't have a very long life expectancy. I used to get slaughtered all the time (heh, but I enjoyed it - a little masochistic glee thing) because a fresh FAW or even a pet would hit my Beachball before I even saw it on the screen. I'd trigger it...~0.5s or so later, I'd be looking at a respawn button.
It's one of those things that you could carry in your inventory or have slotted with another torp in inventory...to play with what would work best in the way things are playing out.
In PvE, it's going to depend on the NPCs - if you're fighting Tholians, they FAW - fighting the Voth and they like their AoE. Gets into what you're fighting and whether you load up with any targetables or not. Can also hold off them, waiting until after they do their AoE madness and then unload them. Another thing to keep in mind is how much aggro they generate...if you unload a targetable at a NPC, there's a pretty good chance they'll just shoot it unless they're already aggro'd on you or something else.
And as I preview this post, yep - can see why I tend not to give build advice and folks hate that I generally can't give a straight answer...I just toss out a bunch of pros and cons.
Cause only the person actually knows what they're looking to do, if they normally fly with a certain group and what's needed, etc, etc, etc...just a case of trying to provide some of the basic info so folks can try to make a more informed choice or think about options they might not have considered and whether they're worth considering for what they're doing...
For the first series, the number after the timestamp is the time between that torp and the previous torp.
14:08:10:02:16:23.3
14:08:10:02:16:25.0 +1.7s
14:08:10:02:16:27.0 +2.0s
For the remaining series, there is a second number after a slash that represents the time between that torp and that torp from the previous series.
14:08:10:02:16:30.0 +3.0s / +6.7s
14:08:10:02:16:31.8 +1.8s / +6.8s
14:08:10:02:16:33.6 +1.8s / +6.6s
14:08:10:02:16:36.8 +3.2s / +6.8s
14:08:10:02:16:38.8 +2.0s / +7.0s
14:08:10:02:16:40.6 +1.8s / +7.0s
14:08:10:02:16:43.6 +3.0s / +6.8s
14:08:10:02:16:45.4 +1.8s / +6.6s
14:08:10:02:16:47.4 +2.0s / +6.8s
14:08:10:02:16:50.2 +2.8s / +6.6s
14:08:10:02:16:52.0 +1.8s / +6.6s
14:08:10:02:16:54.2 +2.2s / +6.8s
14:08:10:02:16:56.8 +2.6s / +6.6s
14:08:10:02:16:58.8 +2.0s / +6.8s
14:08:10:02:17:01.2 +2.4s / +7.0s
14:08:10:02:17:03.6 +2.4s / +6.8s
14:08:10:02:17:05.7 +2.1s / +6.9s
14:08:10:02:17:07.8 +2.1s / +6.6s
14:08:10:02:17:10.5 +2.7s / +6.9s
14:08:10:02:17:12.5 +2.0s / +6.8s
14:08:10:02:17:14.5 +2.0s / +6.7s
14:08:10:02:17:17.3 +2.8s / +6.8s
14:08:10:02:17:19.3 +2.0s / +6.8s
14:08:10:02:17:21.8 +2.5s / +7.3s
14:08:10:02:17:24.1 +2.3s / +6.8s
14:08:10:02:17:26.1 +2.0s / +6.8s
14:08:10:02:17:28.1 +2.0s / +6.3s
Decided to take a look without Autofire on. This is just spamming the spacebar with FireAll. It's not going to be broken out as neatly, cause I'm honestly not sure which torp was firing when because I was quick spamming the spacebar and the torps stayed the coated look without displaying any CD timers. Though in typing out the time increments, the pattern somewhat begins to appear as far as which torp was which torp...so I'll try to split them that way.
14:08:10:02:42:57.8
14:08:10:02:42:59.7 +1.9s
14:08:10:02:43:02.1 +2.4s
14:08:10:02:43:05.1 +3.0s
14:08:10:02:43:07.1 +2.0s
14:08:10:02:43:08.9 +1.8s
14:08:10:02:43:11.9 +3.0s
14:08:10:02:43:14.1 +2.2s
14:08:10:02:43:15.9 +1.8s
14:08:10:02:43:18.7 +2.8s
14:08:10:02:43:20.7 +2.0s
14:08:10:02:43:23.1 +2.4s
14:08:10:02:43:25.9 +2.8s
14:08:10:02:43:27.7 +1.8s
14:08:10:02:43:29.7 +2.0s
14:08:10:02:43:32.5 +2.8s
14:08:10:02:43:34.9 +2.4s
14:08:10:02:43:36.9 +2.0s
14:08:10:02:43:39.9 +3.0s
14:08:10:02:43:41.7 +1.8s
14:08:10:02:43:43.5 +1.8s
Okay, one more time - this time using a keybind for the three torps and spamming the Hell out of that to see what it gives us.
14:08:10:02:50:39.0
14:08:10:02:50:40.8 +1.8s
14:08:10:02:50:43.2 +2.4s
14:08:10:02:50:46.0 +2.8s
14:08:10:02:50:48.0 +2.0s
14:08:10:02:50:49.6 +1.6s
14:08:10:02:50:53.0 +3.4s
14:08:10:02:50:55.3 +2.3s
14:08:10:02:50:57.4 +2.1s
14:08:10:02:50:59.7 +2.3s
14:08:10:02:51:01.8 +2.1s
14:08:10:02:51:04.2 +2.4s
14:08:10:02:51:07.3 +3.1s
14:08:10:02:51:09.0 +1.7s
14:08:10:02:51:11.3 +2.3s
14:08:10:02:51:14.1 +2.8s
14:08:10:02:51:16.3 +2.2s
14:08:10:02:51:18.1 +1.8s
14:08:10:02:51:20.7 +2.6s
14:08:10:02:51:22.9 +2.2s
14:08:10:02:51:25.3 +2.4s
14:08:10:02:51:27.5 +2.2s
14:08:10:02:51:29.7 +2.2s
14:08:10:02:51:32.3 +2.6s
14:08:10:02:51:34.9 +2.6s
14:08:10:02:51:37.1 +2.2s
14:08:10:02:51:39.1 +2.0s
14:08:10:02:51:41.9 +2.8s
14:08:10:02:51:43.9 +2.0s
14:08:10:02:51:45.9 +2.0s
14:08:10:02:51:48.7 +2.8s
14:08:10:02:51:50.7 +2.0s
14:08:10:02:51:53.3 +2.6s
14:08:10:02:51:55.5 +3.2s
14:08:10:02:51:57.5 +2.0s
14:08:10:02:52:00.1 +2.6s
So...we never see a 1.5s between torps. There was a single 1.6s increment and two 1.7s increments, everything else was 1.8s or higher.
For the first test, averaging just the times between the 2nd and 1st as well as 3rd and 2nd; we get an average of 2.0s between torps.
For the second test, it was an average of 2.02s between torps (2nd & 1st, 3rd & 2nd).
For the third test, it was an average of 2.15s between torps (2nd & 1st, 3rd & 2nd).
And ya, the note about my build, it's supposed to be the stabilizer, not the inverter. Brain TRIBBLE moment on my part.
The only thing I want to point out is, cluster torps are actually more than viable in kerrat spam balls. First I hit photonic fleet for some extra spam, warp plasma the target and tractor to kill their defense, shoot. A cluster at point blank and sing jump right after to placate them. Works allot actually. Also the beach ball is just too fun and the console set is too good for me to drop.
Heh, I think this was the thread I mentioned luck in...(I'm posting while asleep)...with most Fedball vs. KDFball fights, my targetables are usually gone before I see them on the screen. It's a trip with the Cluster, because it appears as the cluster of mines for a sec and disappears - cause it got hit that fast.
Though, my most epic death was getting caught by a Tric, a spread of Temporals, and a Beachball. Course, they were all mine - they managed to survive some how and all hit my new target from various angles as I was getting ready to unload...died to the splash.
When I run the Beachball (very rarely), I try to drop it from max range above and at an angle - zipping by it to try to avoid getting caught in the splash that almost always happens. I mean, seriously, there will be a guy sitting there - has to be AFK - the moment I trigger the Beachball, the guy's hit FAW and blows it and me up before I even see it on my screen...I'm just boom and waiting on the respawn.
I love the splash torps in ISE for some clump 'n thump action though - the GW gets all the Spheres to aggro me so they don't shoot at the incoming torps...and boom. It's basically fire and forget - drop the torps out and fly to the next side, cause that barrel of Spheres is already dead - they just don't know it yet.
But yeah, my moaning that the Beachball blowing me up without a crit even got old for me. I actually switched out both T'varo pieces and am running the following on Willard:
Eng: Protonic, Assimilated, Aceton
Sci: Tachyo, Zero-Point, Bioneural
I still haven't upgraded his three Photon Tac consoles to Advanced yet (partially because I'm doing the whole solo fleet thing - and - honestly I still haven't decided between Locators and Exploiters).
He carries an E-Bio, Grav, 4x Bio, and the XPW that's never fired. His current CrtD/CrtH for each torp (not counting Accuracy Overflow on the HY or normal shots) is...
E-Bio: 153.0% CrtD / 36.6% CrtH; 1:4.18
Grav: 133.0% CrtD / 40.6% CrtH; 1:3.28
Bio: 133.0% CrtD / 34.6% CrtH; 1:3.84
It's got me leaning toward the Exploiters for an additional +24% CrtD, to get those ratios to 1:4.84, 1:3.87, 1:4.54 - trying to get closer to both the 1:5 and 1:10 ratios (okay, lol - to a 1:5 ratio). Might even mean dropping the boost to the AA damage from the Relay and going with a fourth exploiter...would take the ratios to 1:5.05, 1:4.06, & 1:4.77 respectively.
It's just rough trying to get somewhere from the general 133.0% CrtD & 22.9% CrtH on a Sci.
edit: Heh, but this is a good example of why I try to avoid build advice - what does and doesn't work for me isn't necessarily going to work or not work for anybody else...can just go with the underlying mechanics and let folks find what works for them from experimentation.
It's really been more about the fun factor in kerrat recently, so my builds really are just built to be fun to fly but still remain competitive. Example is the beach ball, I mean it's fairly useless for damage in most categories of pvp, but if it does hit and crit on a clump of Feds and kdf it is just amazingly hilarious watching the yellow fly. Also same with the clusters, if they get through and crit they can one shot a recluse. I've had them crit for over 12k per mine, so around 120k total with 80%shield pen. Or just plain out annoying targets with constant minor torp hits that keep them from getting out of red alert. Also acetone now, so even more fun!
Projectile doffs seem to have changed when we had a patch about them a while back. The change wasn’t to do with fire rates but I am 90% sure fire rates changed. It used to be two ROF 8 seconds torpedoes with 2 clusters would fire almost none stop. Now they stall a lot with a noticeable amount of downtime. Likewise in the past three ROF 10 seconds torps and 1 cluster would stall a lot now they work.
I used to run with two ROF 8 seconds torpedoes with 2 clusters. Now three ROF 10 seconds torps and 1 cluster is noticeably better. On a 5 front ship I tried 3 ROF 10 seconds torps and 2 clusters and the 2nd cluster hardly fired. That never used to happen.
EDIT: Next to test with all the new shield pen is the raw higher damage of Quantums torpedoes and mines better than Transphasic for bleedthough? Will 25% Bleedthough from Quantums damage beat Transphasic? EDIt Seems not by the math. My Quantum’s torpedoes hit for 8600 so at 25% bleedthough should deal 2150 hull.
Thx..I'm switching from cannons/dbb to cannons and e bio torp since the bo nerf. One doff has 20% chance every 6 secs to reduce it to 1 second. Trying to work out if this is worth the doff space.
I'm currently running my T'Varo as a quantum boat, and I got a great suggestion to add quantum mines to the mix to see if there is an improvement in damage output. This is probably on the short list today.
One thing I have not tried yet is using transphasics while running two piece AMACO. I've used the Breen set, the Borg set (for the power boosts to help my [AMP] core boost damage), and combinations using the Romulan engine with bonuses to attack patterns. Since building the Counter Command deflector, I'm curious to see if there is any improvement.
EDIT I wonder what would happen with Counter Command deflector and the engine and shields from the Breen set.
First of all, thank you virusdancer for correcting my mistakes, i though have a few questions now.
Now to the mistakes i have done:
1. I weren`t sure how the bonus torp-dmg points occur, so i left the undine deflektor out of my calculation, thanks for telling me how it works, same why i did not included the skilled points into the (torp) weapong dmg.
The 0.3% misscalculation of bonus dmg was a math-mistake by me, sorry for that.
Also, sorry for not using the correct words, i dont know every high end jargon, so i used what i thought was right.
Also for my example i used a easy example, exluding a few factors. First as i wrote i ignored crith and critdmg, as that would have made the math so complex that i feared that my 10th class math would highly possible lead me to mistakes.
Also i simply used a rapid reload transphasic, cause i did the calcs on a unskilled toon so i only had those free torp to look onto the tooltip.
Secondly with basedamage i ment the dmg the torp shows without any buffs for him.
Also i did not calculated bonus dmg buffs from things like tt or apo, cause they arent always active.
Also, if your torpdoffs didnt procced, simply turn around and fire your backtorps to close the gap.
Next point: Transphasics. My Tooltip tells me that my transphasic torpedos have an additional 20% shieldpenetration, so i dont see how you get your 40% pen?
Yes the counter command was to get the 26% radiation damage, i think this will bring greater benefits to hull dmg than 5% bonus damage.
Again, i ignored Crith and critdmg, i did not forgot them.
Next point, i again used the tooltip for basedamage, sorry for using wrong words, lets call it tooltip-ground-damage-without-buffs
Also if you see i already wrote that it is countered by hazzardemitters.
And for pvp, he tolds what he does is kerrat, what i found out recently quite a lot of targetable torps get through there.
Also i never got infected with a debuff i would have needed to cleanse with tt in kerrat, and normally when i get decloaked im dead anyways.
And moment the t`varo is for sure no b`rel, but it exels the same point with its ebc.
and i never noticed my engine power fell under 50 while aux is at 125, and as i say there is no need for shilds and weapons.
And hey, in kerrath there is mostly no concentrated thing, so a aceton can do wonders because it doesnt get torped too often.
And attack patterns? Im not sure on a sci captain what will benefit that much.
And hey, you can subnuke that faw to get your beachball through- at least for me it does hit quite often and i die almost never to it.
And i only talked about rapid fires, cause they were the ones i had on my toon for testing, for sure a mk XII Will benefit more, however you dont get it for free.
And yes, tehre are reasons to use the romulan hyper plas, however not to use the romulan hyper plas+3 photon torps.
Did anyone confirm what the new trait shield hardness does?
Meh, I wouldn't say totally wrong...and I've been told I can come off as an TRIBBLE at times with things, and in reading back through that - it was a case where I was probably coming off as one. My apologies for that. Like I said in another reply to somebody, I'm no guru - nothing like that - have just collected a bunch of data from random testing and from what a lot of the good folks out there have shared...
I guess I'm just a wee bit burnt out with some of the issues with the game - the way things are being handled - and - meh, that bled through (no pun intended) in the post. I've been trying to avoid posting of late, because I keep coming off like a douche...meh.
So again, my apologies for that...
Heh, it's just one of those back and forth things with a few folks and the devs trying to get tidbits of info from them.
Didn't mean to come off harsh, and I have no problem with myself being wrong on something - as long as the correct information gets out in the end (don't have an ego where I need to be right, just the info was right)...so my saying I had no iidea where you got that, wasn't an attack - it was literally me saying I didn't know...so if you had information that superceded what I had; I'd have appreciated knowing how you got there so that I could share that in the future.
No need to apologize in the least - much of it comes from Cryptic's own tooltips and the fight with them to standardize them at times. Cause we've got things like the 2pc Ordnance which provides +7.5% Bonus Damage and the 2pc Silent Enemy which provides +7.6% Damage Strength. There are several things here and there, where they're not so neatly labeled and it's caused all sorts of confusion and disappointment as folks drop out some resources for a boost that's not as good as they thought it would be.
There was a lot of the devs wondering what we meant with what we were saying and us wondering what they meant with what they were saying...and we finally got one of them to say what they call some of the stuff, and yeah - I've been trying to push that terminology since so everybody was kind of on the same page. So again, no need to apologize in the least.
Entirely on me, in the way I read it - read it as not a case of ignoring it for the example, but as ignoring it as a whole. That's entirely on me. My apologies for that.
No worries in the least.
It's a very common thing to refer to it as such. No worries.
It's just about discussing the range of damage one might see - how one might go from a pressure situation to more of a spike situation...and what they might be looking at as far as raw damage goes.
Flipping the boat's going to be a loss of DPS while you're out of arc. The more time you spend outside of the front/aft 90s, the more time you're not doing anything sort of thing. Heh, I really tank Willard's DPS from doing that - flying around going wheeeee out of arc...lol, oh well.
Hovertip in inventory...
Rapid Reload Transphasic Torpedo Launcher Mk XI
Very Rare Ship Weapon
Bound to Character
Vice Admiral
Values do not reflect skills or other modifiers
Rapid Fire Transphasic Torpedo
Kinetic Damage with 40% Bonus Shield Penetration
90' targeting arc
3437.3 Kinetic Damage (404.4 DPS)
+20% Critical Severity
+10% Accuracy
Value: 67,886 EC
Hovertip from hotbar/actionbar...
Rapid Fire Transphasic Torpedo
Kinetic Damage with 40% Bonus Shield Penetration
Targets Foe
90' targeting arc
3.437.3 Kinetic Damage (404.4 DPS)
10% chance: Confuse targets for 3 sec when hitting with Torpedo weapons
50% Chance: Lesser of -20 or -20% Able Crew
10% Chance: Lesser of -10 or -10% Alive Crew
+20% Critical Severity
+10% Accuracy
Right-click info...
Rapid Reload Transphasic Torpedo Launcher Mk XI
Very Rare Ship Weapon
Bound to Character
Vice Admiral
Torpedo launchers fire projectiles that deal heavy kinetic damage. Shields drastically reduce the effects of kinetic damage. Transphasic projectiles deal average damage with a long recharge and have a chance for increased shield penetration. The modified rapid fire transphasic torpedo launcher has microfriction autoloaders and superconducting capacitors that reduce the reload time.
Values do not reflect skills or other modifiers
Rapid Fire Transphasic Torpedo
Transphasic torpedoes have an additional 40% shield penetration. Torpedoes are high damage projectiles that are effective against ship hulls, but shields absorb most of the impact.
Targets Foe
90' targeting arc
10 kilometer range
0.5 sec activate
8 sec recharge
3,437.3 Kinetic Damage (404.4 DPS)
10% chance: Confuse targets for 3 sec when hitting with Torpedo weapons
50% Chance: Lesser of -20 or -20% Able Crew
10% Chance: Lesser of -10 or -10% Alive Crew
+20% Critical Severity
+10% Accuracy
Skills that affect this ability:
Starship Weapons Training
(Improves All Weapon Damage)
Starship Projectile Weapon Training
(Improves Kinetic Weapon Damage)
Value: 67,886 EC
For how that comes into play and works, they've got the explanation on STOwiki: http://sto.gamepedia.com/Transphasic_Torpedo_Launcher#Shield_Penetration
It's also something that can be checked by looking at the combatlog.txt file.
Do you find that NPCs live long enough for it to come into play? Do you find that players ignore it long enough to do damage in PvP?
Like I said, just the way I read it - entirely on me.
No worries, it's what it is commonly called by folks. It's only an issue if they try to run any calculations on it cause expectations won't match up with the numbers they actually see.
I have a tendency to point out pros and cons...over and over again, since I tend to avoid trying to say one way or the other - just a case of getting folks the info so they can make their own decision.
Yep, like I said in the other reply - folks experiences will vary. Heh, in another thread I dropped out a pair of videos from matches folks had - one from 2011 and one from earlier this year. The 2011 was nice and clear, folks going at it...the 2014 match looked like a cat ate a box of crayons and threw up on the screen.
I even switched out the torps on Willard to hit up Ker'rat, going with mostly targetables...and...yeah, very few if any got anywhere near a target - even if dropped within 1 km of the target.
APB from FAW boats, APD from targets caught by Spreads, etc, etc, etc. You're looking at not only damage resistance debuffs but also stealth debuffs.
Willard gets decloaked...he's sporting 41,730 hull and 10,851 shields. Basic shield damage reduction without any buffs would be 31.9% - TSS2 takes it to 44.5% - the Bio shield takes it to 56.7% - Sci Fleet takes that to 85.7%. Hull Damage resistance is pretty low to start, 18.6% - but is easily buffed to 62-67%.
Uncloaked Defense is going to be somewhere between 85% to 185% (EM, APO, MEF).
There's QSM, Singularity Jump, dropping out Photonics and Nimbus, dropping out Aceton...
There's the Confuse proc from torps, there's the placate proc from the KHG shields...
There's carrying the following BOFF layout...
TT1, HY2, TS3, APO1
TT1
ET1, AtS1
PH1, TSS2, HE3
ST1, ST2
Meant as far as survivability.
Fleet T'varo: 29,700 base hull & 0.99 shield mod
Fleet B'rel: 27,225 base hull & 0.88 shield mod
9 in Starship Structural Integrity takes the F.T'varo to 38,610 hull and the F.B'rel to 35,392.5 hull. That 2475 difference becomes 3217.5 - and - the more the hull gets boosted, the more that difference grows. And since the effective hull health plays off the combination of hull and damage resistance, that difference only continues to grow. The shield mod's not only going to be affecting the shield capacity, but anything that affects shield capacity - as well as affecting shield regen.
Simply meant as far as survivability.
Cloaked: 51/15 - 0/15 - 76/50 - 125/80
Uncloaked (no MEF): 51/15 - 114/100 - 51/20 - 60/25
Heh, I blow them up each time I see them.
APO3 w/ 9 SAP...
+24.8% All Damage (this is bonus damage, it affects all damage - weapon and exotic)
+37.4 All Damage Resistance Rating (this takes me from 18.6% damage resistance to 36.9%)
+173.2% Speed/Turn (this takes me from 30.82 speed to 60.55 and from 48.9 turn to 74.8)
+44.9% Defense (this takes me from 135.0% bonus defense to 177.6%)
APO3 w/ 0 SAP...
+16.6% All Damage
+25 All Damage Resistance
+X% Speed/Turn (can't remember the untrained numbers there)
+30% Defense
APO is one of the most powerful abilities in the game...and 9000 skill points is damn cheap for the boosts you get from it.
SNB's single target...
I'm not talking about hunting PVE farmers...I'm talking about the fights that take place up above the farmers with the KDF and Feds going at it.
It was just info for folks.
TS Hypers make nifty chaff...
Can't remember if it was Bort or Hawk that said it was additional Shield Damage Reduction rather than additional Shield Penetration Resistance...
Hrmm, it was in the patch notes where they stated what it did: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1174371
Course, that did leave me with the question of whether it was Shield Damage Reduction or Shield Damage Bonus Reduction...or whatever one would cal lt.
Also i found out my biggest mistake: The german sto launcher clealy says that transphasics have 20% additional Shieldpenetration, the english says 40%. i now set my launcher to english to avoid further mistakes.
And hey, i did not got your tread wrong, i never thought you tried to attack me^^, but still thanks for the apologize
Here is the build I'm currently running:
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=currentsgolthphotontorpboat_5311
There are relevant traits and a close likeness to my skill tree. I'm using three purple PWOs (firing at the global cd pretty much all the time, well global cd + activation time...), a Hazard (Don't remember the full name, but the one that improves Hazard Emitters) Officer, and a Fabrication Engineer (for RSP). I attempted to put the traits on the bio torps, but they may not be 100% accurate.
Now to the effectiveness, I haven't parsed it, but I'd hazard that it's doing close to 15k dps without including the crits, which are relatively often and are in the 20k+ damage range. I used this build in Elite Conduit last night and I'm pretty sure I dominated in damage output because of the 25-45k crits. I still need the MACO 2-piece and the Fleet Tactical Consoles. This is by far my favorite ship!
ps, can anyone recommend a good parser? I'd like to see exactly what my dps is. Thanks!
Have you tried at least 1 photon mine in the rear with or without the double mine range trait?There is little point in 3 rear torps so a mine will boost DPS. and your consoles already boost the mine damage. You might find another DPS boost is to replace 1 forward photon with a cluster. The 4th front torp will rarely fire so you may as well have it as a slow RoF high damage torp.
It might be going to far for your build but personally I could stick a Hargh’peng and Breen cluster with 2 photons in the front. The two photons keep at almost max fire rate and the rare times they do not fire you get the hard hitting cluster and Hargh’peng shots.
The only cluster torp I know of is the Breen one and I'm trying to keep this a pure photon build right now. Are there other cluster torps?