they had it dang near spot on at least for space in the beginning its the new folks at cryptic that have no clue.
They did not do those Science nerfs after Launch because they believed the PvP was spot-on. They did them due to PvP player outrage about the imbalance. And then we spent 2 years listening to the game being called Escorts Online. Now it is A2B Online.
And I would argue the exact opposite. Cryptic now has employees from many different MMO backgrounds working for them. The team is not just the twenty guys who came over from CoH any more - though many of those guys are division leads. There are a lot of different ideas working on STO now. Whether or not they get implemented is another thing entirely - and that going back to whether or not STO really needs PvP to be financially viable.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Whether or not they get implemented is another thing entirely - and that going back to whether or not STO really needs PvP to be financially viable.
It doesn't. Most MMOs are PvE centric for a reason... most people avoid PvP like the plague and with good reason -- it's the most toxic of the MMO communities.
It doesn't. Most MMOs are PvE centric for a reason... most people avoid PvP like the plague and with good reason -- it's the most toxic of the MMO communities.
My experiences would seem to belie your use of the word "most."
The overall gaming community is well-versed in PvP. They do not sell millions of copies of Halo or CoD because people do not like PvP. And the majority of the MMOs I have played over the last 17 years have had a very strong PvP contingent - maybe not 50%, but a high-enough number that it financially mattered to the producers to keep them happy. Eve Online does not have 500k Subscribers because people do not like PvP.
My issue is never with PvP. My issues tend to be with the small percentage of people who PvP who act like A-holes - and then tarnish the image of everyone else who likes PvP.
Just as there was room for more KDF Content to get added with LoR there is room for more PvP Content to get added into STO. I just do not know if it is worth the effort to make it right now, as most serious PvPers will probably rotate to Star Citizen next year - and unless SC sucks they will only play STO for the PvE Content.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
The sooner you get over it and move on the sooner you will be doing yourself and the entire community a big favor.
If Cryptic thought there was money to be made in pvp within the f2p model and the even more narrow CBS/Paramount liscence, they would invest in it.
PVP'ers in any game are the same - min maxers with constant demands and lamantations. In short, a pain in the TRIBBLE. Its the pvp community that cries the most about things like Power Creep (casual players are not impacted by this, and they are the bread and butter of the game)
The best thing that Cryptic can do for pvp is remove it from the game, so anyone who wants to play it will Have to make a private game, like they did in diablo 2, another wildly popular game with absolutely dreadful pvp. - But people loved it. and people played it all the time, every day. They took it for what it was, and ran with it.
These private games could be searched for in their own 'join game' list, and people could see before hand who was there, so that new or casual players wont have to face the same 5 man premade all night long.
The funny thing about the comparison between STO and D2 pvp is that no one complained about how stupidly imbalanced pvp was in diablo 2. Thasts pretty sad when a bliz community complains less then... well... any community.
Just move on to a game with pvp in it beyond a sandbox flavor.
Cryptic: Remove PVP.
Ask yourself one question: How many people would say: Nothing says 'Star Trek like competitive player vs player combat'. - No one.
Fed vs Fed is the dumbest thing ever, clearly a sandbox addition, immersion breaking, and totally pointless to a story driven franchise.
It doesn't. Most MMOs are PvE centric for a reason... most people avoid PvP like the plague and with good reason -- it's the most toxic of the MMO communities.
Are we using most very loosely here, but you can say that about raiders, crafters, dungeoneers, market traders, pveers, subscribers, and pretty much anyone who specializes in a specific area of a game.
However, Cryptic missed out on a lot of ways to make more money with pvp. This game could have capitalized on the MOBA craze back when the game first came out and with f2p, skins, loadouts, map packs, and weapons devoted to pvp, but they wanted to make the quick buck in lockboxes and hamster wheels.
Seeing how long it has been, there is probably more chance of it being removed all together than there is getting some love.
I'll agree it is unfortunate. A PvP focused endgame would be so much more fun than grinding stale content over and over. But the fact is STO is PvE focused, that is it's endgame and what 99% of the people here play. Due to this that is also where the money comes from, so Cryptic will focus on this and nothing else.
I fear you'll be waiting an eternity for such an update. Better to look elsewhere for PvP shenanigans.
I don't believe that. I think it's unlikely we will actually see some major PvP content additions, but I think if they would come, they would draw back plenty of the PvPers that have left over the years, and that would also have a positive impact on the game's population and income. I don't know if it would be enough to be justify the expense on Cryptic, but I think it would be notable to the PvP community itself. And that's what the players need to care about.
I do agree with this point. I never agreed with Cyptic's internal metrics as the holy book of player interest in the game. 5-6 years into a mmorpg's life is usually way too long to bring back a lot of lost players ..but its Star Trek and its IP still has a strong pull for fans of both the IP and pvp.
It doesn't. Most MMOs are PvE centric for a reason... most people avoid PvP like the plague and with good reason -- it's the most toxic of the MMO communities.
This is bs. It's mostly the PvP folks that is beta testing new stuff, making suggestions and reporting bugs/issues.
PvE'ers don't care. They do their pewpew and don't even realize what is happening on their screens.
Having an interested PvP community is an opportunity that needs to be used more often. You just need to learn how to listen (which cryptic never did).
lol @ every single pve-overloard(lol) in here... "whiny pvp'ers", "remove pvp".... all i can say is that from my experience the attitude that is mostly connected with pvp'ers indeed is more often shwon by a)people who don't pvp or tried it a few times only, or b)people that blame (other) pvp'ers for such an attitude (can be pvp'ers too, of course) while showing it theirselves. would fit the pattern. i****s are everywhere .
but mostly it's some pve hereoes that doesn't seem able to understand that in an online game you'd better be of with a decent pvp-system for endgame. whatever that gametype is!
this just as like the fact that there's no simple plain reason for anyone in here to not accept the fact that everyone should be able to play this game the way he/she/it wants to. and this means viable pvp!
to conclude this i'll state once again, that it's not that "we, the pvp'ers" ask for something out of the blue. lots of long promised stuff we saw nothing about in the end. for years. take that seat and enjoy the view :P.
/rant off
p.s.:
here are 2 threads that havam conserved in his sig and which show cryptics history with pvp. thx again for that .
You will never see a Season or major update to improve PVP in STO.
NEVER.
The issue is simple. Developer neglect. The developers absolutely refuse to do much to improve, enhance, or even promote PVP. This has always been so with Cryptic since STO released even in the Atari days. We still fight over the SAME maps, SAME modes since the game released. The neglect PVP has is along the same lines as the KDF situation, but far, far worse. Whereas the KDF has received SOME additions, and maybe a blog mention or two over the last four something years, PVP is handled far worse than the KDF.
I was around when the game released, left after the first 3 months. Came back after just over 2 years. One of the first things I did after getting my bearings again was hope into PVP to get shot up. I was absolutely horrified to see the guys still fighting over the same maps, same modes of play from 2010.
If that doesn't warn you about the state of PVP in STO, then I don't know what to say.
But honestly, it's far too late for any PvP love. And since a very small fraction of the community even PvPs, it would be a waste of money to work on it at this point.
There are not hospitals in the city so people dont go to the hospital so why build one since people dont go to the hospital.
trolling or your keyboard is typing for you to make you look bad?
dammit mods, if you find a thread that you think needs to be moved to the pvp section, do us a favor and just delete it instead
You understand that moderators (or devs) don't play pvp.They have no clue that these pve heroes are full of the brown stuff and every post from them looks like someone failed at trolling.
We have no information on Season 10 atm at all. For all we know, there won't be a Season 10.
The next major release upcoming is Expansion 2 - Delta Rising, and no, there will not be any specific work on PvP done in that one.
While other games might use PvP as their endgame, this is not the case in STO. In STO, endgame consists of Crafting, Reputation and Queued PvE missions, as seemingly that is what the players want.
That is NOT what the players want. Thats what cryptic has lead you to believe. I hear all the time from lots of players that they would love to have more endgame PVP. These players are not from pvp matches or pvp chat only discussions. There ppl right alone side you and me doing Crafting, Reputation and Queued PVE missions. The Players are out there and they are many. It truly boggels the mind how easy a new PVP map could be made. Still cryptic hasn't done anything to improve pvp. Unless you count the new kits and doffs. Witch accidently most likely has added to the PVP experience. They probably were not made to benifit pvp, its just the players have adapted. Even if thats accurate, its sad. Dear Cryptic is it so hard to improve a desired part of your game. PVP "IMO" is could actually overtake the PVE of the game. The ships are their, the players are willing. All we need is a few improvements, Fixed glitches and a new map or 2. I think we all would be just fine. PVP is fun and cryptic should take advantage of it. If they let it die. It will hurt them more than me. They need to wise up.
The devs strategic release plan is not at all focused on what the player wants.
it is solely driven on the purchase of Zen.
PvE - New Rep ginrd - crafting. None of this is End Game on the basis it all has a very short half life.
Once you have everything you could possibly want.... Rep done - crafting done - gear done.
What else if left...
This is the HUGE VOID that has been missing from STO for years.
Meaningful PvP and dare I say it RvR. Territorial expansion across the galaxy maps an such...
There are many directions cryptic could take STO PvP. None of which needs to interfere with the fan boyz who want to kirk it up against NPC's.
Why they haven't done so yet is a mystery. It has been shown in other games that player retention as well as loyalty to the brand stays high, with good End Game PvP content.
That is NOT what the players want. Thats what cryptic has lead you to believe. I hear all the time from lots of players that they would love to have more endgame PVP. These players are not from pvp matches or pvp chat only discussions. There ppl right alone side you and me doing Crafting, Reputation and Queued PVE missions. The Players are out there and they are many. It truly boggels the mind how easy a new PVP map could be made. Still cryptic hasn't done anything to improve pvp. Unless you count the new kits and doffs. Witch accidently most likely has added to the PVP experience. They probably were not made to benifit pvp, its just the players have adapted. Even if thats accurate, its sad. Dear Cryptic is it so hard to improve a desired part of your game. PVP "IMO" is could actually overtake the PVE of the game. The ships are their, the players are willing. All we need is a few improvements, Fixed glitches and a new map or 2. I think we all would be just fine. PVP is fun and cryptic should take advantage of it. If they let it die. It will hurt them more than me. They need to wise up.
A few new maps, and some bug fixes isn't going to solve pvp's problems, when they make it so any ship build no matter what, can compete 100% against any other build, than you might find more people wandering in to play pvp, but for now it will remain an almost lost cause.
Got to admit, it's the same reason why I stopped PvP a long time ago.
I recall even suggesting Cryptic split up the queues into casuals and hardcore a couple of times, but I just got ridiculed by the PvP community for even thinking about suggesting such a thing. So after I finished my PvP accolades, I simply walked away.
I remember you pvping in the early days, you stopped quickly after. Quite sad really, but i guess you could predict the future
Really tho pvp was pretty decent before we lost STO from Atari to PWE.
Sure we had no content at all for a year, but at least no broken TRIBBLE got released either.
another important moment when the devs choose the wrong direction was when they introduced the playable romulans. Instead of making it a full playable 3rd faction, they choose the cheapy easy way. A full 3rd faction would have opened a lot of new possibilities. For pve, but especially also for pvp. imagine that.
Comments
Really its dead long long since forgotten.
They should let it die really they should remove it from the game next season and be done with it forever
And I would argue the exact opposite. Cryptic now has employees from many different MMO backgrounds working for them. The team is not just the twenty guys who came over from CoH any more - though many of those guys are division leads. There are a lot of different ideas working on STO now. Whether or not they get implemented is another thing entirely - and that going back to whether or not STO really needs PvP to be financially viable.
It doesn't. Most MMOs are PvE centric for a reason... most people avoid PvP like the plague and with good reason -- it's the most toxic of the MMO communities.
The overall gaming community is well-versed in PvP. They do not sell millions of copies of Halo or CoD because people do not like PvP. And the majority of the MMOs I have played over the last 17 years have had a very strong PvP contingent - maybe not 50%, but a high-enough number that it financially mattered to the producers to keep them happy. Eve Online does not have 500k Subscribers because people do not like PvP.
My issue is never with PvP. My issues tend to be with the small percentage of people who PvP who act like A-holes - and then tarnish the image of everyone else who likes PvP.
Just as there was room for more KDF Content to get added with LoR there is room for more PvP Content to get added into STO. I just do not know if it is worth the effort to make it right now, as most serious PvPers will probably rotate to Star Citizen next year - and unless SC sucks they will only play STO for the PvE Content.
If Cryptic thought there was money to be made in pvp within the f2p model and the even more narrow CBS/Paramount liscence, they would invest in it.
PVP'ers in any game are the same - min maxers with constant demands and lamantations. In short, a pain in the TRIBBLE. Its the pvp community that cries the most about things like Power Creep (casual players are not impacted by this, and they are the bread and butter of the game)
The best thing that Cryptic can do for pvp is remove it from the game, so anyone who wants to play it will Have to make a private game, like they did in diablo 2, another wildly popular game with absolutely dreadful pvp. - But people loved it. and people played it all the time, every day. They took it for what it was, and ran with it.
These private games could be searched for in their own 'join game' list, and people could see before hand who was there, so that new or casual players wont have to face the same 5 man premade all night long.
The funny thing about the comparison between STO and D2 pvp is that no one complained about how stupidly imbalanced pvp was in diablo 2. Thasts pretty sad when a bliz community complains less then... well... any community.
Just move on to a game with pvp in it beyond a sandbox flavor.
Cryptic: Remove PVP.
Ask yourself one question: How many people would say: Nothing says 'Star Trek like competitive player vs player combat'. - No one.
Fed vs Fed is the dumbest thing ever, clearly a sandbox addition, immersion breaking, and totally pointless to a story driven franchise.
Are we using most very loosely here, but you can say that about raiders, crafters, dungeoneers, market traders, pveers, subscribers, and pretty much anyone who specializes in a specific area of a game.
However, Cryptic missed out on a lot of ways to make more money with pvp. This game could have capitalized on the MOBA craze back when the game first came out and with f2p, skins, loadouts, map packs, and weapons devoted to pvp, but they wanted to make the quick buck in lockboxes and hamster wheels.
This is nothing, the KDF (the irony in that one) was (is) the worst.
Did you by chance visit the PvP forums lately...
That will effectively redefine your definition of "whiny".
I'll agree it is unfortunate. A PvP focused endgame would be so much more fun than grinding stale content over and over. But the fact is STO is PvE focused, that is it's endgame and what 99% of the people here play. Due to this that is also where the money comes from, so Cryptic will focus on this and nothing else.
I fear you'll be waiting an eternity for such an update. Better to look elsewhere for PvP shenanigans.
I do agree with this point. I never agreed with Cyptic's internal metrics as the holy book of player interest in the game. 5-6 years into a mmorpg's life is usually way too long to bring back a lot of lost players ..but its Star Trek and its IP still has a strong pull for fans of both the IP and pvp.
This is bs. It's mostly the PvP folks that is beta testing new stuff, making suggestions and reporting bugs/issues.
PvE'ers don't care. They do their pewpew and don't even realize what is happening on their screens.
Having an interested PvP community is an opportunity that needs to be used more often. You just need to learn how to listen (which cryptic never did).
but mostly it's some pve hereoes that doesn't seem able to understand that in an online game you'd better be of with a decent pvp-system for endgame. whatever that gametype is!
this just as like the fact that there's no simple plain reason for anyone in here to not accept the fact that everyone should be able to play this game the way he/she/it wants to. and this means viable pvp!
to conclude this i'll state once again, that it's not that "we, the pvp'ers" ask for something out of the blue. lots of long promised stuff we saw nothing about in the end. for years. take that seat and enjoy the view :P.
/rant off
p.s.:
here are 2 threads that havam conserved in his sig and which show cryptics history with pvp. thx again for that
a history of sto pvp
Just for fun S8 all about PvP they said...
loleditforthreadmoving^^
NEVER.
The issue is simple. Developer neglect. The developers absolutely refuse to do much to improve, enhance, or even promote PVP. This has always been so with Cryptic since STO released even in the Atari days. We still fight over the SAME maps, SAME modes since the game released. The neglect PVP has is along the same lines as the KDF situation, but far, far worse. Whereas the KDF has received SOME additions, and maybe a blog mention or two over the last four something years, PVP is handled far worse than the KDF.
I was around when the game released, left after the first 3 months. Came back after just over 2 years. One of the first things I did after getting my bearings again was hope into PVP to get shot up. I was absolutely horrified to see the guys still fighting over the same maps, same modes of play from 2010.
If that doesn't warn you about the state of PVP in STO, then I don't know what to say.
Whoever this mod was, he did not understand why this topic was created outside the pvp section.:rolleyes:
There are not hospitals in the city so people dont go to the hospital so why build one since people dont go to the hospital.
trolling or your keyboard is typing for you to make you look bad?
You understand that moderators (or devs) don't play pvp.They have no clue that these pve heroes are full of the brown stuff and every post from them looks like someone failed at trolling.
That is NOT what the players want. Thats what cryptic has lead you to believe. I hear all the time from lots of players that they would love to have more endgame PVP. These players are not from pvp matches or pvp chat only discussions. There ppl right alone side you and me doing Crafting, Reputation and Queued PVE missions. The Players are out there and they are many. It truly boggels the mind how easy a new PVP map could be made. Still cryptic hasn't done anything to improve pvp. Unless you count the new kits and doffs. Witch accidently most likely has added to the PVP experience. They probably were not made to benifit pvp, its just the players have adapted. Even if thats accurate, its sad. Dear Cryptic is it so hard to improve a desired part of your game. PVP "IMO" is could actually overtake the PVE of the game. The ships are their, the players are willing. All we need is a few improvements, Fixed glitches and a new map or 2. I think we all would be just fine. PVP is fun and cryptic should take advantage of it. If they let it die. It will hurt them more than me. They need to wise up.
it is solely driven on the purchase of Zen.
PvE - New Rep ginrd - crafting. None of this is End Game on the basis it all has a very short half life.
Once you have everything you could possibly want.... Rep done - crafting done - gear done.
What else if left...
This is the HUGE VOID that has been missing from STO for years.
Meaningful PvP and dare I say it RvR. Territorial expansion across the galaxy maps an such...
There are many directions cryptic could take STO PvP. None of which needs to interfere with the fan boyz who want to kirk it up against NPC's.
Why they haven't done so yet is a mystery. It has been shown in other games that player retention as well as loyalty to the brand stays high, with good End Game PvP content.
D,
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Please keep the QQ to a minimum.
>>>PUNISH THE FEDs<<<
>>>Positive Feedback from a PvE HERO<<<
A few new maps, and some bug fixes isn't going to solve pvp's problems, when they make it so any ship build no matter what, can compete 100% against any other build, than you might find more people wandering in to play pvp, but for now it will remain an almost lost cause.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I remember you pvping in the early days, you stopped quickly after. Quite sad really, but i guess you could predict the future
Really tho pvp was pretty decent before we lost STO from Atari to PWE.
Sure we had no content at all for a year, but at least no broken TRIBBLE got released either.
@rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
@rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
@rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
Omnipotently yours,
Q