i for one, like that the borg aren't the ridiculous overpowered enemy they were during TNG, which make sense since the alpha quadrant managed to close the technological gap.
never liked them as concept(hurr space cyborg zombies).
thats why saying you like a hot curry that shouldnt have spices in them. the borg are meant to be overpowered, they got dumbed down throughout tng and then nerfed in voyager, now they are nothing more then a perennial inconvenience.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
i for one, like that the borg aren't the ridiculous overpowered enemy they were during TNG, which make sense since the alpha quadrant managed to close the technological gap.
never liked them as concept(hurr space cyborg zombies).
I, for one, think the Borg should be ridiculously overpowered. That''s how Q presented them to us: a species lightyears ahead of us, extremely technologically advanced, assimilating entire races in their wake. They were Q's example of how very unready mankind really is to play with the big boys out there.
And then, as if Cryptic had a hand in it, they got nerfed into oblivion, and even 1 single puny Voyager was a match for them. Blech.
I, for one, think the Borg should be ridiculously overpowered. That''s how Q presented them to us: a species lightyears ahead of us, extremely technologically advanced, assimilating entire races in their wake. They were Q's example of how very unready mankind really is to play with the big boys out there.
And then, as if Cryptic had a hand in it, they got nerfed into oblivion, and even 1 single puny Voyager was a match for them. Blech.
If STO can make the Borg anywhere close to "Wolf 359" deadliness against players, it would be great...
Heavy damaging shots.
Tractors with simultaneously powerful shield draining capability which are topped off with hull carving beams.
Torps of Doom.
Ships exploding around.
Fast regenerating shields and hull.
The appearance of a Cube in Star Trek was a dreaded thing until VOY made them a joke. The takedown of a Cube should be a bigger deal than it already is. Their heavy firepower could give more importance to supporting ships to make use of those other BOFF abilities.
If STO can make the Borg anywhere close to "Wolf 359" deadliness against players, it would be great...
Heavy damaging shots.
Tractors with simultaneously powerful shield draining capability which are topped off with hull carving beams.
Torps of Doom.
Ships exploding around.
Fast regenerating shields and hull.
The appearance of a Cube in Star Trek was a dreaded thing until VOY made them a joke. The takedown of a Cube should be a bigger deal than it already is. Their heavy firepower could give more importance to supporting ships to make use of those other BOFF abilities.
It's mostly there, they tractor you, they use tachyon beam and shield neutralizer to get rid of you shields, they have the invisitprp of doom and a decent plasma burn. They actually have a pretty nasty skillset built around stripping your shields, tractoring you and destroying you with torps and KCB. The problem is they are too easy to counter, if you have 6 points in the drain resist skill and hazard emitters they can't strip your shields and suddenly they're no threat at all.
What if on elite any time someone pops their ship becomes assimilated and your teammates had to destroy it before it let you respawn in the game. It would be a good proc for afk.
What if on elite any time someone pops their ship becomes assimilated and your teammates had to destroy it before it let you respawn in the game. It would be a good proc for afk.
If STO can make the Borg anywhere close to "Wolf 359" deadliness against players, it would be great...
Heavy damaging shots.
Tractors with simultaneously powerful shield draining capability which are topped off with hull carving beams.
Torps of Doom.
Ships exploding around.
Fast regenerating shields and hull.
The appearance of a Cube in Star Trek was a dreaded thing until VOY made them a joke. The takedown of a Cube should be a bigger deal than it already is. Their heavy firepower could give more importance to supporting ships to make use of those other BOFF abilities.
No it wouldnt. The borg arent the big bad guys in this game. The Iconians are. Thats where the threat should be. If Cryptic introduced the Wolf 359 type Borg no one would enjoy it. Simply because youd be merely lucky to survive the encounter. Thats not fun in a game.
The Borg have just got to have that elite fleet shields' [Adapt] mod for their shields.
While the Borg update talk is going, why not replace their regular plasma weapons with a new type like, say, Borg plasma, with not only a plasma proc, but a proc like destabilized tetryon's (except with a green effect rather than brown) to go with it.
And why not throw on the Assimilated set's hull and shield regen procs onto Borg ships?
Or perhaps that let their ground forces and starships regenerate from death alike Voth do on the ground?
Or perhaps let their ships assimilate player ships, making them join the Borg team and attack the other players, similar to how they do on the ground?
Or let Borg slowly gain new abilities to counter the enemy player's abilities. For example, if the player team are all a bunch of dps ships, the Borg would start gaining tanking powers, like rsp and eng team. Of course, such new abilities would only apply to the map the said Borg are in; Borg in other maps would not be at all effected, making it a short term adaption.
It'd be kinda neat of destroying a Borg Cube had a chance of having a Borg Sphere pop out of it and proceed to attack whoever killed the Cube. :P
Anyway, lots of ideas here. Hopefully at least a full of these will make it into STO.
Winning.
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tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
What if on elite any time someone pops their ship becomes assimilated and your teammates had to destroy it before it let you respawn in the game. It would be a good proc for afk.
That would be frightening. You're crew reaches a certain point and the borg take over.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I was Klingon before Klingon was cool.
No it wouldnt. The borg arent the big bad guys in this game. The Iconians are. Thats where the threat should be. If Cryptic introduced the Wolf 359 type Borg no one would enjoy it. Simply because youd be merely lucky to survive the encounter. Thats not fun in a game.
in both cases, the borg are meant to be a destructive force in their own right, their cubes need to be larger, harder to kill, on the level of CE have strong abilities on a similar path, using tractor beams with cutting beams, needing to change frequencies on the shields a lot faster. this is where specific rep ship parts could play a bigger factor, the borg set should stand the best chance of any available set to counter the borg. it should also bring another mechanic mostly overlooked, the ships crew count, borg beamins could overwhelm the ship and signs of borg assimilation is gradual, tactical teams can only slow it down but not stop it the more the borg can beam in, it means readapting shield frequencies to deflect their beaming capabilities. the borg are meant to be a terror on the galaxy and highly intimidating that no sane person would go near one.
that doesnt mean the iconian threat is any less urgent on their own enterance one day. it just means the borg are where they should of been from the start.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
i don't get why people like the borg so much as an enemy, IMO they're boring, even their ships are boring, their stages are boring(black/green EVERYWHERE), i would be happy if cryptic moved away from the borg, and gave us other enemies(hell i prefer fighting undine to fighting the borg, at least fluidic space looks cool).
I agree. The Borg need to be nastier. I'm talking about Hive Onslaught nasty. To the point where team work and coordination is necessary to win (not just getting the optional), even on normal difficulty.
The Borg already use dirty tricks to kill the unwary in elite STFs. I'd also like to see more variety in those abilities.
those "dirty tricks" you mention are the gift gozer left us in the form of the invisible ubertorp, you want more one-hit kill torps?
thats why saying you like a hot curry that shouldnt have spices in them. the borg are meant to be overpowered, they got dumbed down throughout tng and then nerfed in voyager, now they are nothing more then a perennial inconvenience.
what i'm saying is i don't like the curry, nor the spices, i don't like the borg, or even the concept they represent(invincible space cyborg zombie horde), so having less borg or at the very least weaker borg is good enough for me, i'd prefer if cryptic ever decide to add powerful enemies, that it be anything but the borg.
i don't get why people like the borg so much as an enemy, IMO they're boring, even their ships are boring, their stages are boring(black/green EVERYWHERE), i would be happy if cryptic moved away from the borg, and gave us other enemies(hell i prefer fighting undine to fighting the borg, at least fluidic space looks cool).
The oppressive use of the green and other dark colours started with First Contact, as seen here: "First Contact" Borg cube. I liked the look of both the outside and inside of Borg ships in TNG (non-remastered). The cubes had red and yellow/orange colouring: TNG cube.
Saying that, I did like the promotional image released of the Borg cube for First Contact, which had a much more silver look to the hull with blue and yellow lighting emanating from within: Borg cube promotional image.
No more Borg. They were buffed and people(mostly DPSers since Borg spreading out caused a DPS drop) QQed until they got nerfed. Borg STFs are mostly done because of the high rewards, which were severely reduced then raised again after forum rage. Cryptic should've kept the reward lower so players have incentive to do newer encounters.
Early TNG Borg should never come back, intelligent races adapted to the Borg. Borg don't even control the Delta Quadrant as a whole, there must be a reason they aren't winning those wars. Blame Berman&Braga if you'd like, they dragged ST downhill. Where do you think JJ got his courage for making his version?
Yeah, but the only thing is will they make them hard, or challenging? The difference is that they can make the Borg we now fight harder to beat. This can be done by giving them more hit points, and have them hit harder.
I'm a proponent of more challenging than just harder...except in this case. The Borg to me seem to fit the mold of just gaining more hit points and hit harder. In the shows they never really had tactics so to speak, they were superior and just hit you harder than anything else. They didn't maneuver (I mean, cubes and spheres aren't exactly a testament to ship design). They flew right up to you, locked you in a tractor beam and shot you.
edit: actually, what might be fun is if spheres and other smaller borg vessels were buffed a tad but still destroyable by a single ship and then make regular cubes near impossible to be destroyed by a single ship. Rather, when facing a cube it would either be in a team environment like that red alerts (then you can have only a couple cubes rather than 20) or if facing one solo for an option to beam aboard the vessel and destroy it from the inside.
It's getting ridiculous to have 5 and 8 Borg cubes that can be vaped by a single ship.
To the comments above: the cube in FC was badly damaged by the time of the E-E's arrival. Yeah, the fleet was taking lots of casualties too, but so do we. At least, I die periodically fighting the Borg.
This is what people forget: player characters are not representative of Starfleet as a whole. (Or the KDF, or the RR.) Our character (and there's only one player character per faction in-universe, or close to it) is the cream of the crop, with the best equipment and weapons. That, by the way, is why we're allowed to fly the one or two captured Undine ships that have been retrofitted, or whatever. If a normal Federation fleet, made up of NPCs, went up against a cube, how would they do? I don't know; I'll have to make a Foundry mission and figure that out. But I can tell you that an NPC Defiant wouldn't be able to solo a cube.
But more than that? The Borg were never the huge threat they were cracked up to be. People remember Wolf 359, but they never remember the hilariously underequipped Enterprise-D going up against a cube singlehandedly and surviving, multiple times. They never remember people repeatedly boarding Borg ships and completely wrecking stuff without ever being stopped.
See, if the Collective had two IQ points to rub together, it would be close to unstoppable. But it doesn't, so the Borg constantly half-TRIBBLE everything. Oh, yeah. We'll only send one cube to do this. Sure, it was almost enough. But Data's plan wouldn't have worked if there had been three hundred ships swarming Earth. Yeah, those humans wandering around our extremely delicate equipment? Don't worry about them. We need to engage in ground combat? Don't use ranged weapons, those are for sissies! Instead, walk toward the enemy very slowly and attempt to use assimilation tubules before the target has time to hit you with the butt of his rifle. Speaking of blunt force, there's no need to take any measures against that.
There wouldn't be much of a series if the Borg sent 3 cubes and assimilated Earth.
The Borg are crappy bad guys because the more they were used, the more 'humanized' they became. They were written that way, whether by ineptitude or necessity, take your pick.
If the Borg were truly the remorseless, ultra-efficient, technological menace alluded to in 'Q Who' and 'Best of Both Worlds'; it would have made for short series run of TNG, and probably no DS9/Voy/Ent.
You wouldn't ever be able to use them in return episodes, because their power demands they overwhelm and annihilate everything, Hero cast & ship included.
All powers must fall.
Egypt, Greece, Rome, Mongols, Britain, USA, Cardassia, Romulas.
The Borg are no different. The Borg might have more going on then we know. Maybe a Borg civil war between the Collective and Liberated-Drone? Species 8472 might have gone back on the offensive against them. Maybe they decided to see if they have better luck in the Gamma Quadrant and encountered the Dominion and they are too much for the Borg to handle? (Can a Founder be assimilated?) Or it could very well be a new species that we dont know about that has checked the Borg. Maybe Janeway dealt a bigger blow to the Borg then anyone thought.
That would be an interesting story line to explain why Borg no longer appear as feared and powerful as they used to be. With Delta Rising we will be closer to Borg home space so we might get an explanation.
I'm a proponent of more challenging than just harder...except in this case. The Borg to me seem to fit the mold of just gaining more hit points and hit harder. In the shows they never really had tactics so to speak, they were superior and just hit you harder than anything else. They didn't maneuver (I mean, cubes and spheres aren't exactly a testament to ship design). They flew right up to you, locked you in a tractor beam and shot you.
Technically, A Cube and a Sphere are the most efficient designs you could use for a space ship. There are no " aerodynamics " in space. Borg are allll about efficiency, and a cube as a ship in space is the most efficient thing you can manage.
Because that's what the Borg should be doing... trying to assimilate your crew and your ship and causing disruptions while they're at it. So not only would they be shutting down subsystems, they'd be degrading your efficiency by removing crew.
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Because that's what the Borg should be doing... trying to assimilate your crew and your ship and causing disruptions while they're at it. So not only would they be shutting down subsystems, they'd be degrading your efficiency by removing crew.
Thats a pretty good idea. Repelling borg boarders and all the problems they caused on a ship was kind of.. well.. a team effort. So give a Team power only a 33% chance or something against removing borg boarding party debuff. so it gives a chance for all team abilities to be useful against boarding parties, since they're no longer on a shared cooldown.
Oh. And make borg boarding party more threatening than just annoying you with random ability cooldown cycles. Actually shut off your shields, or even better, a psuedo jam sensor thing and make you target your own team instead. Boy that'll go over well, high dps FaW ship FaWs your own team.
Because that's what the Borg should be doing... trying to assimilate your crew and your ship and causing disruptions while they're at it. So not only would they be shutting down subsystems, they'd be degrading your efficiency by removing crew.
in both cases, the borg are meant to be a destructive force in their own right, their cubes need to be larger, harder to kill, on the level of CE have strong abilities on a similar path, using tractor beams with cutting beams, needing to change frequencies on the shields a lot faster. this is where specific rep ship parts could play a bigger factor, the borg set should stand the best chance of any available set to counter the borg. it should also bring another mechanic mostly overlooked, the ships crew count, borg beamins could overwhelm the ship and signs of borg assimilation is gradual, tactical teams can only slow it down but not stop it the more the borg can beam in, it means readapting shield frequencies to deflect their beaming capabilities. the borg are meant to be a terror on the galaxy and highly intimidating that no sane person would go near one.
that doesnt mean the iconian threat is any less urgent on their own enterance one day. it just means the borg are where they should of been from the start.
I disagree. The borg belong where the Devs put them. They arent the big bad guys of old. Theyve had their time. They still remain a potent threat to a single ship and its only when theyve been singled out by a group of ships do they fall any faster. Heck the Tactical Cubes of ESTFs can easily swat numerous ships before being brought down.
All powers must fall.
Egypt, Greece, Rome, Mongols, Britain, USA, Cardassia, Romulas.
The Borg are no different. The Borg might have more going on then we know. Maybe a Borg civil war between the Collective and Liberated-Drone? Species 8472 might have gone back on the offensive against them. Maybe they decided to see if they have better luck in the Gamma Quadrant and encountered the Dominion and they are too much for the Borg to handle? (Can a Founder be assimilated?) Or it could very well be a new species that we dont know about that has checked the Borg. Maybe Janeway dealt a bigger blow to the Borg then anyone thought.
That would be an interesting story line to explain why Borg no longer appear as feared and powerful as they used to be. With Delta Rising we will be closer to Borg home space so we might get an explanation.
Well, the Borg are in a massive conflict with the Voth - a species millions of years in the spacefaring business.
Maybe this war is even bigger then we realize at this point. Would explain why the Alpha/Beta Quadrant Alliance is actually able to stand up against the supposedly massively superior Voth... and Borg.
Because that's what the Borg should be doing... trying to assimilate your crew and your ship and causing disruptions while they're at it. So not only would they be shutting down subsystems, they'd be degrading your efficiency by removing crew.
Um, remember the part where they're *already* doing that?! It's called 'Assimilate Ship.' Only mistake Cryptic made, is to have TT remove this boarding party too, so few ppl even notice it even happened.
Solution? 'Assimilate Ship' can no longer be cleared by Tactical Team.
Surely the Borg are not just sitting still while the Federation, Romulans, Klingons and all other races are upgrading their ships. They have taken a beating from the Undine so maybe we will get to fight an even nastier Borg vessel in the future. Wouldn't it be great to run into a new prototype Borg warship in the Delta Quadrant? Think about that STO.
Borg don't need anything NEW they just need to be fixed.
You want to make the Borg scary? You want to make people EARN that dilithium they farm? Give the Borg ships USEFUL Boff skills.
Seriously imagine a Tac Cube with FAWIII and Aux2Bat or Aux2Hull
Imagine Spheres with Polarize Hull and Science Team
At bare minimum, every single Borg ship should have Tac/Eng/Sci team, just vary what their levels are.
The Borg are NOT powerful, they never have been, the Borg are TOUGH, they wear you down and grind you under superior numbers and endurance. The greatest strength of a Cube is its sheer size.
You don't need to give an enemy more powerful guns and thicker hulls to make them a challenge, you just need to let them use the tools they already have.
Now I see a few people have mentioned Adaptive shielding, 7of9 stated that the Borg determined that was not an effective use of materials, took too much for a single ship when you could just make more ships. Though a passive defense that builds, like the Aegis system would be sensible, its not a complete adaption but it fits with their style.
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
The Borg are NOT powerful, they never have been, the Borg are TOUGH, they wear you down and grind you under superior numbers and endurance. The greatest strength of a Cube is its sheer size.
You don't need to give an enemy more powerful guns and thicker hulls to make them a challenge, you just need to let them use the tools they already have.
Now I see a few people have mentioned Adaptive shielding, 7of9 stated that the Borg determined that was not an effective use of materials, took too much for a single ship when you could just make more ships. Though a passive defense that builds, like the Aegis system would be sensible, its not a complete adaption but it fits with their style.
Give'm back to back tactical team. FaW, and Torp spread. Throw some heals in there since, hey, even in the movies their ships regened FAST.
Comments
thats why saying you like a hot curry that shouldnt have spices in them. the borg are meant to be overpowered, they got dumbed down throughout tng and then nerfed in voyager, now they are nothing more then a perennial inconvenience.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I, for one, think the Borg should be ridiculously overpowered. That''s how Q presented them to us: a species lightyears ahead of us, extremely technologically advanced, assimilating entire races in their wake. They were Q's example of how very unready mankind really is to play with the big boys out there.
And then, as if Cryptic had a hand in it, they got nerfed into oblivion, and even 1 single puny Voyager was a match for them. Blech.
If STO can make the Borg anywhere close to "Wolf 359" deadliness against players, it would be great...
Heavy damaging shots.
Tractors with simultaneously powerful shield draining capability which are topped off with hull carving beams.
Torps of Doom.
Ships exploding around.
Fast regenerating shields and hull.
The appearance of a Cube in Star Trek was a dreaded thing until VOY made them a joke. The takedown of a Cube should be a bigger deal than it already is. Their heavy firepower could give more importance to supporting ships to make use of those other BOFF abilities.
It's mostly there, they tractor you, they use tachyon beam and shield neutralizer to get rid of you shields, they have the invisitprp of doom and a decent plasma burn. They actually have a pretty nasty skillset built around stripping your shields, tractoring you and destroying you with torps and KCB. The problem is they are too easy to counter, if you have 6 points in the drain resist skill and hazard emitters they can't strip your shields and suddenly they're no threat at all.
... Or an incredible griefing tool. :P
No it wouldnt. The borg arent the big bad guys in this game. The Iconians are. Thats where the threat should be. If Cryptic introduced the Wolf 359 type Borg no one would enjoy it. Simply because youd be merely lucky to survive the encounter. Thats not fun in a game.
While the Borg update talk is going, why not replace their regular plasma weapons with a new type like, say, Borg plasma, with not only a plasma proc, but a proc like destabilized tetryon's (except with a green effect rather than brown) to go with it.
And why not throw on the Assimilated set's hull and shield regen procs onto Borg ships?
Or perhaps that let their ground forces and starships regenerate from death alike Voth do on the ground?
Or perhaps let their ships assimilate player ships, making them join the Borg team and attack the other players, similar to how they do on the ground?
Or let Borg slowly gain new abilities to counter the enemy player's abilities. For example, if the player team are all a bunch of dps ships, the Borg would start gaining tanking powers, like rsp and eng team. Of course, such new abilities would only apply to the map the said Borg are in; Borg in other maps would not be at all effected, making it a short term adaption.
It'd be kinda neat of destroying a Borg Cube had a chance of having a Borg Sphere pop out of it and proceed to attack whoever killed the Cube. :P
Anyway, lots of ideas here. Hopefully at least a full of these will make it into STO.
Winning.
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
That would be frightening. You're crew reaches a certain point and the borg take over.
I was Klingon before Klingon was cool.
in both cases, the borg are meant to be a destructive force in their own right, their cubes need to be larger, harder to kill, on the level of CE have strong abilities on a similar path, using tractor beams with cutting beams, needing to change frequencies on the shields a lot faster. this is where specific rep ship parts could play a bigger factor, the borg set should stand the best chance of any available set to counter the borg. it should also bring another mechanic mostly overlooked, the ships crew count, borg beamins could overwhelm the ship and signs of borg assimilation is gradual, tactical teams can only slow it down but not stop it the more the borg can beam in, it means readapting shield frequencies to deflect their beaming capabilities. the borg are meant to be a terror on the galaxy and highly intimidating that no sane person would go near one.
that doesnt mean the iconian threat is any less urgent on their own enterance one day. it just means the borg are where they should of been from the start.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
If the Borg in STO were the same monsters from Wolf 359 and First Contact, then they would be a challenge.
If anything, they took several giant leaps backwards in STO.
those "dirty tricks" you mention are the gift gozer left us in the form of the invisible ubertorp, you want more one-hit kill torps?
what i'm saying is i don't like the curry, nor the spices, i don't like the borg, or even the concept they represent(invincible space cyborg zombie horde), so having less borg or at the very least weaker borg is good enough for me, i'd prefer if cryptic ever decide to add powerful enemies, that it be anything but the borg.
The oppressive use of the green and other dark colours started with First Contact, as seen here: "First Contact" Borg cube. I liked the look of both the outside and inside of Borg ships in TNG (non-remastered). The cubes had red and yellow/orange colouring: TNG cube.
Saying that, I did like the promotional image released of the Borg cube for First Contact, which had a much more silver look to the hull with blue and yellow lighting emanating from within: Borg cube promotional image.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Early TNG Borg should never come back, intelligent races adapted to the Borg. Borg don't even control the Delta Quadrant as a whole, there must be a reason they aren't winning those wars. Blame Berman&Braga if you'd like, they dragged ST downhill. Where do you think JJ got his courage for making his version?
I'm a proponent of more challenging than just harder...except in this case. The Borg to me seem to fit the mold of just gaining more hit points and hit harder. In the shows they never really had tactics so to speak, they were superior and just hit you harder than anything else. They didn't maneuver (I mean, cubes and spheres aren't exactly a testament to ship design). They flew right up to you, locked you in a tractor beam and shot you.
edit: actually, what might be fun is if spheres and other smaller borg vessels were buffed a tad but still destroyable by a single ship and then make regular cubes near impossible to be destroyed by a single ship. Rather, when facing a cube it would either be in a team environment like that red alerts (then you can have only a couple cubes rather than 20) or if facing one solo for an option to beam aboard the vessel and destroy it from the inside.
It's getting ridiculous to have 5 and 8 Borg cubes that can be vaped by a single ship.
This is what people forget: player characters are not representative of Starfleet as a whole. (Or the KDF, or the RR.) Our character (and there's only one player character per faction in-universe, or close to it) is the cream of the crop, with the best equipment and weapons. That, by the way, is why we're allowed to fly the one or two captured Undine ships that have been retrofitted, or whatever. If a normal Federation fleet, made up of NPCs, went up against a cube, how would they do? I don't know; I'll have to make a Foundry mission and figure that out. But I can tell you that an NPC Defiant wouldn't be able to solo a cube.
But more than that? The Borg were never the huge threat they were cracked up to be. People remember Wolf 359, but they never remember the hilariously underequipped Enterprise-D going up against a cube singlehandedly and surviving, multiple times. They never remember people repeatedly boarding Borg ships and completely wrecking stuff without ever being stopped.
See, if the Collective had two IQ points to rub together, it would be close to unstoppable. But it doesn't, so the Borg constantly half-TRIBBLE everything. Oh, yeah. We'll only send one cube to do this. Sure, it was almost enough. But Data's plan wouldn't have worked if there had been three hundred ships swarming Earth. Yeah, those humans wandering around our extremely delicate equipment? Don't worry about them. We need to engage in ground combat? Don't use ranged weapons, those are for sissies! Instead, walk toward the enemy very slowly and attempt to use assimilation tubules before the target has time to hit you with the butt of his rifle. Speaking of blunt force, there's no need to take any measures against that.
The Borg are crappy bad guys because the more they were used, the more 'humanized' they became. They were written that way, whether by ineptitude or necessity, take your pick.
If the Borg were truly the remorseless, ultra-efficient, technological menace alluded to in 'Q Who' and 'Best of Both Worlds'; it would have made for short series run of TNG, and probably no DS9/Voy/Ent.
You wouldn't ever be able to use them in return episodes, because their power demands they overwhelm and annihilate everything, Hero cast & ship included.
Egypt, Greece, Rome, Mongols, Britain, USA, Cardassia, Romulas.
The Borg are no different. The Borg might have more going on then we know. Maybe a Borg civil war between the Collective and Liberated-Drone? Species 8472 might have gone back on the offensive against them. Maybe they decided to see if they have better luck in the Gamma Quadrant and encountered the Dominion and they are too much for the Borg to handle? (Can a Founder be assimilated?) Or it could very well be a new species that we dont know about that has checked the Borg. Maybe Janeway dealt a bigger blow to the Borg then anyone thought.
That would be an interesting story line to explain why Borg no longer appear as feared and powerful as they used to be. With Delta Rising we will be closer to Borg home space so we might get an explanation.
Technically, A Cube and a Sphere are the most efficient designs you could use for a space ship. There are no " aerodynamics " in space. Borg are allll about efficiency, and a cube as a ship in space is the most efficient thing you can manage.
Because that's what the Borg should be doing... trying to assimilate your crew and your ship and causing disruptions while they're at it. So not only would they be shutting down subsystems, they'd be degrading your efficiency by removing crew.
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Thats a pretty good idea. Repelling borg boarders and all the problems they caused on a ship was kind of.. well.. a team effort. So give a Team power only a 33% chance or something against removing borg boarding party debuff. so it gives a chance for all team abilities to be useful against boarding parties, since they're no longer on a shared cooldown.
Oh. And make borg boarding party more threatening than just annoying you with random ability cooldown cycles. Actually shut off your shields, or even better, a psuedo jam sensor thing and make you target your own team instead. Boy that'll go over well, high dps FaW ship FaWs your own team.
Tac team :cool:
I disagree. The borg belong where the Devs put them. They arent the big bad guys of old. Theyve had their time. They still remain a potent threat to a single ship and its only when theyve been singled out by a group of ships do they fall any faster. Heck the Tactical Cubes of ESTFs can easily swat numerous ships before being brought down.
Well, the Borg are in a massive conflict with the Voth - a species millions of years in the spacefaring business.
Maybe this war is even bigger then we realize at this point. Would explain why the Alpha/Beta Quadrant Alliance is actually able to stand up against the supposedly massively superior Voth... and Borg.
Um, remember the part where they're *already* doing that?! It's called 'Assimilate Ship.' Only mistake Cryptic made, is to have TT remove this boarding party too, so few ppl even notice it even happened.
Solution? 'Assimilate Ship' can no longer be cleared by Tactical Team.
Borg don't need anything NEW they just need to be fixed.
You want to make the Borg scary? You want to make people EARN that dilithium they farm? Give the Borg ships USEFUL Boff skills.
Seriously imagine a Tac Cube with FAWIII and Aux2Bat or Aux2Hull
Imagine Spheres with Polarize Hull and Science Team
At bare minimum, every single Borg ship should have Tac/Eng/Sci team, just vary what their levels are.
Cube: Tac1 Sci2 Eng3
Sphere: Tac3 Sci2 Eng1
Probe: Tac2 Sci3 Eng1
The Borg are NOT powerful, they never have been, the Borg are TOUGH, they wear you down and grind you under superior numbers and endurance. The greatest strength of a Cube is its sheer size.
You don't need to give an enemy more powerful guns and thicker hulls to make them a challenge, you just need to let them use the tools they already have.
Now I see a few people have mentioned Adaptive shielding, 7of9 stated that the Borg determined that was not an effective use of materials, took too much for a single ship when you could just make more ships. Though a passive defense that builds, like the Aegis system would be sensible, its not a complete adaption but it fits with their style.
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Give'm back to back tactical team. FaW, and Torp spread. Throw some heals in there since, hey, even in the movies their ships regened FAST.
Not to mention the gimmick of the Borg Space Set and Assimilated Tal Shiar ships, faster regen.
Hey, there is an idea, give all Borg ships the entire 9/9 set
Assimilated Deflector/Engines/Shields/Cutter Beam/Omga Torp/Assimilated Console/Nanite/Shrapnal Missile/Assimilated Warp core.
Could you imagine how dangerous and powerful Borg ships would be if they had all the stuff we get from them actually equipped?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
They don't really need that, they just need to spam abilities. Alot more abilities.