There wouldn't be much of a series if the Borg sent 3 cubes and assimilated Earth.
The Borg are crappy bad guys because the more they were used, the more 'humanized' they became. They were written that way, whether by ineptitude or necessity, take your pick.
If the Borg were truly the remorseless, ultra-efficient, technological menace alluded to in 'Q Who' and 'Best of Both Worlds'; it would have made for short series run of TNG, and probably no DS9/Voy/Ent.
You wouldn't ever be able to use them in return episodes, because their power demands they overwhelm and annihilate everything, Hero cast & ship included.
All powers must fall.
Egypt, Greece, Rome, Mongols, Britain, USA, Cardassia, Romulas.
The Borg are no different. The Borg might have more going on then we know. Maybe a Borg civil war between the Collective and Liberated-Drone? Species 8472 might have gone back on the offensive against them. Maybe they decided to see if they have better luck in the Gamma Quadrant and encountered the Dominion and they are too much for the Borg to handle? (Can a Founder be assimilated?) Or it could very well be a new species that we dont know about that has checked the Borg. Maybe Janeway dealt a bigger blow to the Borg then anyone thought.
That would be an interesting story line to explain why Borg no longer appear as feared and powerful as they used to be. With Delta Rising we will be closer to Borg home space so we might get an explanation.
I'm a proponent of more challenging than just harder...except in this case. The Borg to me seem to fit the mold of just gaining more hit points and hit harder. In the shows they never really had tactics so to speak, they were superior and just hit you harder than anything else. They didn't maneuver (I mean, cubes and spheres aren't exactly a testament to ship design). They flew right up to you, locked you in a tractor beam and shot you.
Technically, A Cube and a Sphere are the most efficient designs you could use for a space ship. There are no " aerodynamics " in space. Borg are allll about efficiency, and a cube as a ship in space is the most efficient thing you can manage.
Because that's what the Borg should be doing... trying to assimilate your crew and your ship and causing disruptions while they're at it. So not only would they be shutting down subsystems, they'd be degrading your efficiency by removing crew.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Because that's what the Borg should be doing... trying to assimilate your crew and your ship and causing disruptions while they're at it. So not only would they be shutting down subsystems, they'd be degrading your efficiency by removing crew.
Thats a pretty good idea. Repelling borg boarders and all the problems they caused on a ship was kind of.. well.. a team effort. So give a Team power only a 33% chance or something against removing borg boarding party debuff. so it gives a chance for all team abilities to be useful against boarding parties, since they're no longer on a shared cooldown.
Oh. And make borg boarding party more threatening than just annoying you with random ability cooldown cycles. Actually shut off your shields, or even better, a psuedo jam sensor thing and make you target your own team instead. Boy that'll go over well, high dps FaW ship FaWs your own team.
Because that's what the Borg should be doing... trying to assimilate your crew and your ship and causing disruptions while they're at it. So not only would they be shutting down subsystems, they'd be degrading your efficiency by removing crew.
in both cases, the borg are meant to be a destructive force in their own right, their cubes need to be larger, harder to kill, on the level of CE have strong abilities on a similar path, using tractor beams with cutting beams, needing to change frequencies on the shields a lot faster. this is where specific rep ship parts could play a bigger factor, the borg set should stand the best chance of any available set to counter the borg. it should also bring another mechanic mostly overlooked, the ships crew count, borg beamins could overwhelm the ship and signs of borg assimilation is gradual, tactical teams can only slow it down but not stop it the more the borg can beam in, it means readapting shield frequencies to deflect their beaming capabilities. the borg are meant to be a terror on the galaxy and highly intimidating that no sane person would go near one.
that doesnt mean the iconian threat is any less urgent on their own enterance one day. it just means the borg are where they should of been from the start.
I disagree. The borg belong where the Devs put them. They arent the big bad guys of old. Theyve had their time. They still remain a potent threat to a single ship and its only when theyve been singled out by a group of ships do they fall any faster. Heck the Tactical Cubes of ESTFs can easily swat numerous ships before being brought down.
All powers must fall.
Egypt, Greece, Rome, Mongols, Britain, USA, Cardassia, Romulas.
The Borg are no different. The Borg might have more going on then we know. Maybe a Borg civil war between the Collective and Liberated-Drone? Species 8472 might have gone back on the offensive against them. Maybe they decided to see if they have better luck in the Gamma Quadrant and encountered the Dominion and they are too much for the Borg to handle? (Can a Founder be assimilated?) Or it could very well be a new species that we dont know about that has checked the Borg. Maybe Janeway dealt a bigger blow to the Borg then anyone thought.
That would be an interesting story line to explain why Borg no longer appear as feared and powerful as they used to be. With Delta Rising we will be closer to Borg home space so we might get an explanation.
Well, the Borg are in a massive conflict with the Voth - a species millions of years in the spacefaring business.
Maybe this war is even bigger then we realize at this point. Would explain why the Alpha/Beta Quadrant Alliance is actually able to stand up against the supposedly massively superior Voth... and Borg.
Because that's what the Borg should be doing... trying to assimilate your crew and your ship and causing disruptions while they're at it. So not only would they be shutting down subsystems, they'd be degrading your efficiency by removing crew.
Um, remember the part where they're *already* doing that?! It's called 'Assimilate Ship.' Only mistake Cryptic made, is to have TT remove this boarding party too, so few ppl even notice it even happened.
Solution? 'Assimilate Ship' can no longer be cleared by Tactical Team.
Surely the Borg are not just sitting still while the Federation, Romulans, Klingons and all other races are upgrading their ships. They have taken a beating from the Undine so maybe we will get to fight an even nastier Borg vessel in the future. Wouldn't it be great to run into a new prototype Borg warship in the Delta Quadrant? Think about that STO.
Borg don't need anything NEW they just need to be fixed.
You want to make the Borg scary? You want to make people EARN that dilithium they farm? Give the Borg ships USEFUL Boff skills.
Seriously imagine a Tac Cube with FAWIII and Aux2Bat or Aux2Hull
Imagine Spheres with Polarize Hull and Science Team
At bare minimum, every single Borg ship should have Tac/Eng/Sci team, just vary what their levels are.
The Borg are NOT powerful, they never have been, the Borg are TOUGH, they wear you down and grind you under superior numbers and endurance. The greatest strength of a Cube is its sheer size.
You don't need to give an enemy more powerful guns and thicker hulls to make them a challenge, you just need to let them use the tools they already have.
Now I see a few people have mentioned Adaptive shielding, 7of9 stated that the Borg determined that was not an effective use of materials, took too much for a single ship when you could just make more ships. Though a passive defense that builds, like the Aegis system would be sensible, its not a complete adaption but it fits with their style.
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
The Borg are NOT powerful, they never have been, the Borg are TOUGH, they wear you down and grind you under superior numbers and endurance. The greatest strength of a Cube is its sheer size.
You don't need to give an enemy more powerful guns and thicker hulls to make them a challenge, you just need to let them use the tools they already have.
Now I see a few people have mentioned Adaptive shielding, 7of9 stated that the Borg determined that was not an effective use of materials, took too much for a single ship when you could just make more ships. Though a passive defense that builds, like the Aegis system would be sensible, its not a complete adaption but it fits with their style.
Give'm back to back tactical team. FaW, and Torp spread. Throw some heals in there since, hey, even in the movies their ships regened FAST.
You have to admit there is something sad and ironic about an enemy not having the weapons and gear obtained from them being open to them lol
I always considered it reverse engineered parts that the omega team came up with to make it safely work with non borg tech. Otherwise just feel like they have that stuff built in, or should.
Tbh, the borg ships just need to regen hull faster. Alot faster, cause thats one of the staple things they did.
Now I see a few people have mentioned Adaptive shielding, 7of9 stated that the Borg determined that was not an effective use of materials, took too much for a single ship when you could just make more ships. Though a passive defense that builds, like the Aegis system would be sensible, its not a complete adaption but it fits with their style.
If we really wanted to make them like the shows, then they'd have instant hull regenerative ability once they adapted to our weapons, like in "Q Who". By the end of the episode the Borg ship instantly healed any damage the Enterprise-D did, making it appear that they hadn't taken any damage in the first place. I somehow think everyone would thrown on that little trick though. :P
If we really wanted to make them like the shows, then they'd have instant hull regenerative ability once they adapted to our weapons, like in "Q Who". By the end of the episode the Borg ship instantly healed any damage the Enterprise-D did, making it appear that they hadn't taken any damage in the first place. I somehow think everyone would thrown on that little trick though. :P
They could make a Frequency Remodulator reusable Device for ships. I've been playing for a year and the only Devies I've ever used are Nimbus pirates and the Phase console.
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
Um, remember the part where they're *already* doing that?! It's called 'Assimilate Ship.' Only mistake Cryptic made, is to have TT remove this boarding party too, so few ppl even notice it even happened.
Solution? 'Assimilate Ship' can no longer be cleared by Tactical Team.
Assimilate Ship is the Borg version of Boarding Party. Works the same way really, execpt its via transporter and not interceptable shuttles. Remove the ability to counter with Tac Team, you'll probably break Boarding Party as well.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
those "dirty tricks" you mention are the gift gozer left us in the form of the invisible ubertorp, you want more one-hit kill torps?
Truth be told, I've encountered those "invisi-torps" maybe once or twice.
I also still get hit by the lance when close to the Queen on occasion.
It doesn't really bother me, bug or not. It only heightens what little of the old school Borg lethality that exists in the game. And either way, players who are on top of their game can still complete the missions.
Assimilate Ship is the Borg version of Boarding Party. Works the same way really, execpt its via transporter and not interceptable shuttles. Remove the ability to counter with Tac Team, you'll probably break Boarding Party as well.
Sure; but you have to admit that being able to clear them with TT is kinda lame, as pretty much everyone has perma-TT going. Maybe the speed at which they can be removed should be tied to aux levels, or something. Or be moved to Science Team (as AS cripples you in a subnuc kinda way, sorta). The way AS currently works, at least, leaves AS countered way too easily, though. Like I said, half of the pug out there probably never even realized they've ever been hit by AS.
Truth be told, I've encountered those "invisi-torps" maybe once or twice.
I also still get hit by the lance when close to the Queen on occasion.
It doesn't really bother me, bug or not. It only heightens what little of the old school Borg lethality that exists in the game. And either way, players who are on top of their game can still complete the missions.
yeah, that's unlikely considering the gate will fire a ghostrorp at you as soon as if you're within range and targeted by it, so either you only got targeted by a gate "once or twice", or you're like those folks who stay as far away as possible from the gate.
power creep made it so the torp is not as deadly as it used to be, but it can still kill you if you get unlucky/distracted(which isn't that hard since you can't even see the torp).
I think the Borg should have shield adaptation for ships exactly as they have for ground. And we should get a new console to rotate and remodulate weapon frequencies to overcome it. Although, there is another option. In the TNG series, the Borg ships had adapting shields that made them invulnerable to eveything the enterprise tried. But, in first contact, this was not the case. The Borg cube simply took hits as it went, suffering relatively minor damage from the earth ships attacking it. It wasn't until the enterprise-e e warped in and Picard ordered a concentrated attack on one particular point that they finally managed to destroy it.
This is something I'd really like to see put in someday. The team leader gains the ability to designate a certain point on a cube that all players can target, and this sustained concentrated fire would take out Jorge cubes much faster than we do now. However, not concentrating fire does far less damage, taking 2 to 3 times longer to kill a cube than it does now. If there is more than 1 team in the mission, the leaders should coordinate their attacks from maximum effect.
^The Borg are the Galactus of Star Trek Universe, an ever imposing forces that is slowed for a time but never stopped. Yes Galactus was beaten by several non-godlike beings since allowing the Earth to live, but that doesn't mean every species that are not godlike doesn't still fear Galactus coming to their home Galaxy or world. The Borg are that, and to say that even the alliance of the Klingons and Federation can easily hold off the Borg invasion is really stupid.
The Borg are not the be-all and end-all of the Star Trek universe. Not even the Iconians are. Star Trek doesn't have a Big Bad. The Borg were a major threat that was encountered, dealt with, and moved on from. They're still around, but they're basically like the Romulans were during TNG as opposed to during TOS.
Comments
The Borg are crappy bad guys because the more they were used, the more 'humanized' they became. They were written that way, whether by ineptitude or necessity, take your pick.
If the Borg were truly the remorseless, ultra-efficient, technological menace alluded to in 'Q Who' and 'Best of Both Worlds'; it would have made for short series run of TNG, and probably no DS9/Voy/Ent.
You wouldn't ever be able to use them in return episodes, because their power demands they overwhelm and annihilate everything, Hero cast & ship included.
Egypt, Greece, Rome, Mongols, Britain, USA, Cardassia, Romulas.
The Borg are no different. The Borg might have more going on then we know. Maybe a Borg civil war between the Collective and Liberated-Drone? Species 8472 might have gone back on the offensive against them. Maybe they decided to see if they have better luck in the Gamma Quadrant and encountered the Dominion and they are too much for the Borg to handle? (Can a Founder be assimilated?) Or it could very well be a new species that we dont know about that has checked the Borg. Maybe Janeway dealt a bigger blow to the Borg then anyone thought.
That would be an interesting story line to explain why Borg no longer appear as feared and powerful as they used to be. With Delta Rising we will be closer to Borg home space so we might get an explanation.
Technically, A Cube and a Sphere are the most efficient designs you could use for a space ship. There are no " aerodynamics " in space. Borg are allll about efficiency, and a cube as a ship in space is the most efficient thing you can manage.
Because that's what the Borg should be doing... trying to assimilate your crew and your ship and causing disruptions while they're at it. So not only would they be shutting down subsystems, they'd be degrading your efficiency by removing crew.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Thats a pretty good idea. Repelling borg boarders and all the problems they caused on a ship was kind of.. well.. a team effort. So give a Team power only a 33% chance or something against removing borg boarding party debuff. so it gives a chance for all team abilities to be useful against boarding parties, since they're no longer on a shared cooldown.
Oh. And make borg boarding party more threatening than just annoying you with random ability cooldown cycles. Actually shut off your shields, or even better, a psuedo jam sensor thing and make you target your own team instead. Boy that'll go over well, high dps FaW ship FaWs your own team.
Tac team :cool:
I disagree. The borg belong where the Devs put them. They arent the big bad guys of old. Theyve had their time. They still remain a potent threat to a single ship and its only when theyve been singled out by a group of ships do they fall any faster. Heck the Tactical Cubes of ESTFs can easily swat numerous ships before being brought down.
Well, the Borg are in a massive conflict with the Voth - a species millions of years in the spacefaring business.
Maybe this war is even bigger then we realize at this point. Would explain why the Alpha/Beta Quadrant Alliance is actually able to stand up against the supposedly massively superior Voth... and Borg.
Um, remember the part where they're *already* doing that?! It's called 'Assimilate Ship.' Only mistake Cryptic made, is to have TT remove this boarding party too, so few ppl even notice it even happened.
Solution? 'Assimilate Ship' can no longer be cleared by Tactical Team.
Borg don't need anything NEW they just need to be fixed.
You want to make the Borg scary? You want to make people EARN that dilithium they farm? Give the Borg ships USEFUL Boff skills.
Seriously imagine a Tac Cube with FAWIII and Aux2Bat or Aux2Hull
Imagine Spheres with Polarize Hull and Science Team
At bare minimum, every single Borg ship should have Tac/Eng/Sci team, just vary what their levels are.
Cube: Tac1 Sci2 Eng3
Sphere: Tac3 Sci2 Eng1
Probe: Tac2 Sci3 Eng1
The Borg are NOT powerful, they never have been, the Borg are TOUGH, they wear you down and grind you under superior numbers and endurance. The greatest strength of a Cube is its sheer size.
You don't need to give an enemy more powerful guns and thicker hulls to make them a challenge, you just need to let them use the tools they already have.
Now I see a few people have mentioned Adaptive shielding, 7of9 stated that the Borg determined that was not an effective use of materials, took too much for a single ship when you could just make more ships. Though a passive defense that builds, like the Aegis system would be sensible, its not a complete adaption but it fits with their style.
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Give'm back to back tactical team. FaW, and Torp spread. Throw some heals in there since, hey, even in the movies their ships regened FAST.
Not to mention the gimmick of the Borg Space Set and Assimilated Tal Shiar ships, faster regen.
Hey, there is an idea, give all Borg ships the entire 9/9 set
Assimilated Deflector/Engines/Shields/Cutter Beam/Omga Torp/Assimilated Console/Nanite/Shrapnal Missile/Assimilated Warp core.
Could you imagine how dangerous and powerful Borg ships would be if they had all the stuff we get from them actually equipped?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
They don't really need that, they just need to spam abilities. Alot more abilities.
You have to admit there is something sad and ironic about an enemy not having the weapons and gear obtained from them being open to them lol
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
I always considered it reverse engineered parts that the omega team came up with to make it safely work with non borg tech. Otherwise just feel like they have that stuff built in, or should.
Tbh, the borg ships just need to regen hull faster. Alot faster, cause thats one of the staple things they did.
If we really wanted to make them like the shows, then they'd have instant hull regenerative ability once they adapted to our weapons, like in "Q Who". By the end of the episode the Borg ship instantly healed any damage the Enterprise-D did, making it appear that they hadn't taken any damage in the first place. I somehow think everyone would thrown on that little trick though. :P
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
They could make a Frequency Remodulator reusable Device for ships. I've been playing for a year and the only Devies I've ever used are Nimbus pirates and the Phase console.
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Assimilate Ship is the Borg version of Boarding Party. Works the same way really, execpt its via transporter and not interceptable shuttles. Remove the ability to counter with Tac Team, you'll probably break Boarding Party as well.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Truth be told, I've encountered those "invisi-torps" maybe once or twice.
I also still get hit by the lance when close to the Queen on occasion.
It doesn't really bother me, bug or not. It only heightens what little of the old school Borg lethality that exists in the game. And either way, players who are on top of their game can still complete the missions.
Sure; but you have to admit that being able to clear them with TT is kinda lame, as pretty much everyone has perma-TT going. Maybe the speed at which they can be removed should be tied to aux levels, or something. Or be moved to Science Team (as AS cripples you in a subnuc kinda way, sorta). The way AS currently works, at least, leaves AS countered way too easily, though. Like I said, half of the pug out there probably never even realized they've ever been hit by AS.
folks may not notice, but the borg actually regen, if you look closely at their HP, you'll see they get 4-5% due to regen every 10 secs or so.
also TAC cubes have FAW, so do gates, plus they have the uber ghostorp, you guys make it sound as if the borg are totally disarmed.
every thread i see like this seems to want the MMO trinity to come back to STO(which is dumb) without realizing.
yeah, that's unlikely considering the gate will fire a ghostrorp at you as soon as if you're within range and targeted by it, so either you only got targeted by a gate "once or twice", or you're like those folks who stay as far away as possible from the gate.
power creep made it so the torp is not as deadly as it used to be, but it can still kill you if you get unlucky/distracted(which isn't that hard since you can't even see the torp).
This is something I'd really like to see put in someday. The team leader gains the ability to designate a certain point on a cube that all players can target, and this sustained concentrated fire would take out Jorge cubes much faster than we do now. However, not concentrating fire does far less damage, taking 2 to 3 times longer to kill a cube than it does now. If there is more than 1 team in the mission, the leaders should coordinate their attacks from maximum effect.
The Borg are not the be-all and end-all of the Star Trek universe. Not even the Iconians are. Star Trek doesn't have a Big Bad. The Borg were a major threat that was encountered, dealt with, and moved on from. They're still around, but they're basically like the Romulans were during TNG as opposed to during TOS.