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Discount on old T5 ships

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  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    You can't judge what anyone wants except yourself. And anything being "subpar" is completely subjective, and since we know neither tier 6 ship stats nor the method in which tier 5 ships will be upgraded, no one can claim that opinion honestly yet.

    Well let's use a current in-game example. Of your slate of characters, how many of them currently fly T4 ships regularly?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    LOL, lots of people weren't around from when the game went past the old max level of Lv40 to Lv50. No "hookup" for that transition, and what makes you guys think there will be some sweet, cheap deal for you to do so towards 60 and T6 ships? :D

    Realize this: When Exp.2 hits, it will be a gold mine for Cryptic/PWE. They will get their money out of you one way or another.
    Well let's use a current in-game example. Of your slate of characters, how many of them currently fly T4 ships regularly?

    Mmmhhmmm...
    XzRTofz.gif
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Well let's use a current in-game example. Of your slate of characters, how many of them currently fly T4 ships regularly?
    That's a false equivalence. We have no way of knowing that tier 6 ships will be to tier 5s what tier 5s are to tier 4s are now. Not only that, we don't even know that tier 5 ships will remain tier 5 after the 'upgrade' Geko talked about. Even if officially-named 'tier 6' ships have a unique feature, upgraded tier 5 ships could very well be on-par with them and considered colloquially by the community effectively tier 6 themselves, as fleet-level ships are referred to as 'tier 5.5' now.

    And for the record, some of my Romulan faction characters do fly tier 4 refits of their respective ally factions.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    That's a false equivalence.

    Not really. But hey, let's add to the question.

    Of your slate of characters, how many of them fly free T5 ships from hitting Rear Admiral?

    And how many fly Vice Admiral/T5.5/Fleet ships?
    And for the record, some of my Romulan faction characters do fly tier 4 refits of their respective ally factions.

    How many? And how many total characters? Let's just get some numbers going.

    I have 6 characters. None of them fly a T4 ship regularly.

    One of them flies a Mirror ship. The rest all fly 5.5 or fleet ships of some sort.

    So 1/6 for me.

    Everyone else feel free to post their data.

    It might not be apples to apples. But it's certainly an oranges to grapefruits comparison. So let's just collect some data!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • catstarstocatstarsto Member Posts: 2,149 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    vocmcp wrote: »
    What would you think about discounting the old T5 ships in the store?

    Basically they will be sub par to T6 - even with the upgrade. So far the best ships came at 2500 zen. So wouldn't it be fair to discount the old upgrades T5 ships in the store to 2000 zen once the new ones come out?

    Or do you reckon they will just put T6 at 3000 zen???

    Why would people buy outdated ships for that outrageous amount now?? its like spending all that real cash on a T3 ship when u are going to drop in after 10 levels, it doesnt make sense. all of those great endgame ships are going to be junk now, useless! even the consoles they come with only work in the specified ships so that gimmick was scrubbed too lol, and if the new ships are too powerful the nerf gang will be ready to cry power creep and try to neuter all those ships people will be paying cash for.
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Not really.
    Yes it is, because to assume it's not requires knowledge of the nature of "tier 6 ships" and the nature of the upgraded tier 5s.
    But hey, let's add to the question.

    Of your slate of characters, how many of them fly free T5 ships from hitting Rear Admiral?

    And how many fly Vice Admiral/T5.5/Fleet ships?
    Almost all of them(read: maxed-levels) fly a mixture of those. For instance, my Saurian tactical captain flies a freebie Advanced Escort, a Mirror Patrol Escort, Mirror Escort Retrofit, a Tac Escort Retrofit and a Fleet HEC as well as owning a Light Cruiser, an Escort Refit, and a Paragrine Fighter. Most of my maxed-level characters have an assortment of ships like that, though many have seasonal ships, event ships etc in addition.

    What's your point?
    How many? And how many total characters? Let's just get some numbers going.

    I have 6 characters. None of them fly a T4 ship regularly.
    Irrelevant.
    One of them flies a Mirror ship. The rest all fly 5.5 or fleet ships of some sort.

    So 1/6 for me.

    Everyone else feel free to post their data.

    It might not be apples to apples. But it's certainly an oranges to grapefruits comparison. So let's just collect some data!
    See here's the thing. No amount of data from the state of the game now tells us anything at all about tier 6 ships or tier 5 ship 'upgrades'. If that's your point, then no, your assumptions are not justified.
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited August 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    What's your point?

    Look at your signature pic. Do you really believe the optimistic scenario you are trying to paint for your fellow posters? Look at Cryptic's track record and what they have said about X2! Maybe those of us with concerns will be wrong. Maybe those who trust it will all be okay will be wrong. At this moment, it is technically up in the air.

    So look at their history ... what are the chances of each outcome?
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited August 2014
    Let's see

    25 characters total
    8 of whom are admirals
    2 are vice admirals

    0 fly fleet ships
    0 fly 5.5 ships

    1 admiral flies a cstore dyson
    7 admirals fly lock box ships
    2 fly tuffli freighters
    1 of the tuffli's is piloted by a vice admiral
    1 flies a suliban cell ship

    But I choose ships to fit a character concept. I don't play pimp my starship.

    Meta game and ship building is a major part of the game. What else is there to do?

    1. Run ESTFs ten thousand time
    2. Do PvP ... (totally broken ...)
    3. Do exploration (oops ... not possible now)
    4. Foundry (good story but too easy and poor rewards)

    ???
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    macronius wrote: »
    Look at your signature pic. Do you really believe the optimistic scenario you are trying to paint for your fellow posters?
    I'm not trying to "paint an optimistic scenario". I'm trying to encourage a neutral opinion until sufficient information has presented itself, which considering many of the viewpoints presented here, it has not. What I have in my signature has nothing to do with this.
    macronius wrote: »
    Look at Cryptic's track record and what they have said about X2!
    Nothing solid until now...?
    macronius wrote: »
    So look at their history ... what are the chances of each outcome?
    I don't know the chances, as I don't know what criteria one would use to determine that.
  • oldravenman3025oldravenman3025 Member Posts: 1,892 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I can't see them discounting t5 ships. Most likely they'll be adding t6 content for t6 ships to complete so the t5 stuff will just be the next step towards endgame content.



    That's one route I can see them going in.
  • vhiranikosvhiranikos Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    lol discount? No, t6 ships will just be more expensive.
  • eldarion79eldarion79 Member Posts: 1,679 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Given that STO is being transformed more towards Neverwinter's model, I would say a 4500 zen ship is on its way. I wish I was wrong, but STO's version of Neverwinter's crafting system says otherwise.
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    eldarion79 wrote: »
    Given that STO is being transformed more towards Neverwinter's model, I would say a 4500 zen ship is on its way. I wish I was wrong, but STO's version of Neverwinter's crafting system says otherwise.
    STO doesn't have any version of Neverwinter's crafting system.
  • matridunadan1matridunadan1 Member Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    sf911 wrote: »
    How could there be no T6 Odyssey?

    In 2409 it was launched as the flagship vessel of the Federation.

    We are now in 2410 and it is suddenly a lower-tier ship?

    I would be shocked if the Odyssey design wasn't kept at top-tier. It would not make sense.
    Don't feign ignorance. You know exactly how it will be done:

    T6 Odyssey Tactical/Engineering/Science Refit. 3500 zen each, 7000 for a 3-pack.

    Oh, you bought the T5 ships? Sorry, we can't give you any discounts on the T6 ships.


    Go ahead, Rivera. Prove me wrong. I dare you.
  • doffingcomradedoffingcomrade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    sf911 wrote: »
    How could there be no T6 Odyssey?
    T6 Fleet Odyssey, obviously.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    I don't know the chances, as I don't know what criteria one would use to determine that.


    macronius is right in the terms that past history is a place to start when looking for a the chances of things going well (or not) .

    Currently , Season 9 borked visuals for a decent percentage of players .
    For some things are way too bright (especially ground maps) , for others , they can't see their own weapons fire in STF's (or rather they can see everybody elses but their own) .

    ^^ that is how Cryptic is rolling toward the next expansion .

    Cryptic wants good will from the players ?
    Then how about putting their house in order so as to not show contempt not to their current player base but the incoming players that they expect to have with X2 ?
  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    At this point I'm genuinely curious :

    Will wee see the playerbase adopt the T.6 stuff , or will we see the stubborn T.5-ers VS the T.6-ers ? :)
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    Almost all of them(read: maxed-levels) fly a mixture of those. For instance, my Saurian tactical captain flies a freebie Advanced Escort, a Mirror Patrol Escort, Mirror Escort Retrofit, a Tac Escort Retrofit and a Fleet HEC as well as owning a Light Cruiser, an Escort Refit, and a Paragrine Fighter. Most of my maxed-level characters have an assortment of ships like that, though many have seasonal ships, event ships etc in addition.

    But they all fly one ship more than the others. Which ship is that?
    What's your point?

    I'm trying to collect data. Stop being stubborn and give up some data. Why's that so hard?
    Irrelevant.

    It is relevant. It's far more relevant than you are willing to concede, but it's seriously the most unbiased way of collecting data about this topic. Currently T5 ships are competitive with T5.5 ships. So let's see what that data say about that relationship.

    It will give us deeper insight into what is going to happen when T5.5 stacks up against T6.
    See here's the thing. No amount of data from the state of the game now tells us anything at all about tier 6 ships or tier 5 ship 'upgrades'. If that's your point, then no, your assumptions are not justified.

    It will tell us lots of things because the system isn't being completely redone. By virtue of them calling it T6 that means it will exist within the framework of the system of ship tiers that they've built.

    So the data will help us get a picture of what's to come. That's relevant and insightful information.

    So give us your data. I gave mine. I'm not hiding anything. Why are you?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Let's see

    25 characters total
    8 of whom are admirals
    2 are vice admirals

    0 fly fleet ships
    0 fly 5.5 ships

    1 admiral flies a cstore dyson
    7 admirals fly lock box ships
    2 fly tuffli freighters
    1 of the tuffli's is piloted by a vice admiral
    1 flies a suliban cell ship

    But I choose ships to fit a character concept. I don't play pimp my starship.

    CStore Dyson and the lock box ships would count at T5.5.

    So that's 8/8 admirals.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    At this point I'm genuinely curious :

    Will wee see the playerbase adopt the T.6 stuff , or will we see the stubborn T.5-ers VS the T.6-ers ? :)

    You're forgetting a group buddy...
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    At this point I'm genuinely curious :

    Will wee see the playerbase adopt the T.6 stuff , or will we see the stubborn T.5-ers VS the T.6-ers ? :)

    In a game that is sooooooo DPS centric and DPS focused? I know what I'd bet on.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • jaguarskxjaguarskx Member Posts: 5,945 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Well, I have not bought any c-Store ships (yet) nor have I read any of released info about Expansion 2, but hopefully Cryptic / PWE will not push prices beyond 2,500 Zen. Hopefully, they will reduce the price of some of the current ships to accommodate a Tier 6 ship for 2,500 Zen.

    Perhaps something like:

    Tier 1 = 500
    Tier 2 = 750
    Tier 3 = 1000
    Tier 4 = 1250
    Tier 5 = 1750
    Tier 5.5 = 2250
    Tier 6 = 2500
  • jengozjengoz Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    aelfwin1 wrote: »

    Cryptic wants good will from the players ?
    Then how about putting their house in order so as to not show contempt not to their current player base but the incoming players that they expect to have with X2 ?

    they dont want good will from the players.... they just want your money.


    When that runs dry... so will STO
    "Star Trek Online is powered by the most abundant resource in the galaxy . . . Gullibility"
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    jaguarskx wrote: »
    Well, I have not bought any c-Store ships (yet) nor have I read any of released info about Expansion 2, but hopefully Cryptic / PWE will not push prices beyond 2,500 Zen. Hopefully, they will reduce the price of some of the current ships to accommodate a Tier 6 ship for 2,500 Zen.

    Perhaps something like:

    Tier 1 = 500
    Tier 2 = 750
    Tier 3 = 1000
    Tier 4 = 1250
    Tier 5 = 1750
    Tier 5.5 = 2250
    Tier 6 = 2500

    Well unfortunally, T5.5 ships already cost 2500, so...
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Sorry, by my math it's 0/8. I don't count any ships available at level 40 or lower a tier 5.5, nor do I count any ship you have to buy three frigging times to get all the equipment a tier 5.5 ship.

    But I'm willing to agree to disagree on the details.

    Going on stats here. And you ask anyone around the forums, espeically the Build Help forums, you'll get the standard answer. All 8 of those are T5.5. stats wise. Lockbox ships are definitely a step above T5. We all know this.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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