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The effects of the removal of exploration clusters on doffing
frtoaster
Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
I created this thread to discuss the effects of the removal of exploration clusters on doffing. I would like to keep this discussion separate from the one about the changes to the doff UI. The major complaints about how the removal of exploration clusters have affected doffing seem to be the following:
1. Exploration clusters now offer a very limited selection of assignments, and all of them seem to be colonial.
2. Previously, you had two chances to find an assignment in an exploration cluster: once under "Current Map" and another chance under the department heads. Now, you have only one chance per cluster.
3. Previously, you could invite other players to your bridge in order to share assignments that show up under your department heads in an exploration cluster. This is no longer possible, because clusters are no longer separate maps. This change particularly affects owners of Tuffli Class Freighters and Suliban Cell Ships.
4. Exploration clusters refresh their assignment lists once every 20 hours like the departments heads do rather than once every 4 hours like "Current Map" or once every hour like the "Personal" tab. See the bug report below.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1172851
Jheinig seems to think that clusters now offer a better chance to find rare assignments.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=18054221&postcount=5
However, his comments seem to a ignore a few points.
(a) Removing generic assignments from exploration clusters does improve the chances of finding rare assignments, but points 2 and 4 above should reduce your chances. It is hard to say whether your chances would go up or down without knowing the exact algorithm used to generate assignment lists.
(b) Even if the chances of finding rare assignments specific to exploration clusters are improved, the chances of finding generic assignments have decreased. The reason is that generic assignments that used to appear in both sector blocks and exploration clusters can now only be found in sector blocks.
(c) Exploration clusters used to offer non-colonial assignments. The following marauding assignments were available only from exploration clusters:
Raid on Industrial Complex
Raid on Mining Colony
Raid on Research Facility
I also recall "Forced Labor Camp in the <star cluster>" being under "Military", even though the wiki says that it offers colonial CXP. Please note that this assignment is different from "Forced Labor Requisition for <system>", which appears in sector blocks. Other assignments may have also been lost. I'm hoping that players more familiar with doffing will be able to create a more comprehensive list, though Cryptic should be able to do this themselves by looking at their old data.
1. Exploration clusters now offer a very limited selection of assignments, and all of them seem to be colonial.
2. Previously, you had two chances to find an assignment in an exploration cluster: once under "Current Map" and another chance under the department heads. Now, you have only one chance per cluster.
3. Previously, you could invite other players to your bridge in order to share assignments that show up under your department heads in an exploration cluster. This is no longer possible, because clusters are no longer separate maps. This change particularly affects owners of Tuffli Class Freighters and Suliban Cell Ships.
4. Exploration clusters refresh their assignment lists once every 20 hours like the departments heads do rather than once every 4 hours like "Current Map" or once every hour like the "Personal" tab. See the bug report below.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1172851
Jheinig seems to think that clusters now offer a better chance to find rare assignments.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=18054221&postcount=5
The non-colonization missions that star cluster maps used to offer were drawn from the generic mission lists that are available in a wide range of locations. The new cluster interacts are focused solely on the specific missions for the star cluster in question. (Among other things, this actually means that you have a better chance of rare star cluster missions showing up, because there are fewer other missions that will populate the list.)
However, his comments seem to a ignore a few points.
(a) Removing generic assignments from exploration clusters does improve the chances of finding rare assignments, but points 2 and 4 above should reduce your chances. It is hard to say whether your chances would go up or down without knowing the exact algorithm used to generate assignment lists.
(b) Even if the chances of finding rare assignments specific to exploration clusters are improved, the chances of finding generic assignments have decreased. The reason is that generic assignments that used to appear in both sector blocks and exploration clusters can now only be found in sector blocks.
(c) Exploration clusters used to offer non-colonial assignments. The following marauding assignments were available only from exploration clusters:
Raid on Industrial Complex
Raid on Mining Colony
Raid on Research Facility
I also recall "Forced Labor Camp in the <star cluster>" being under "Military", even though the wiki says that it offers colonial CXP. Please note that this assignment is different from "Forced Labor Requisition for <system>", which appears in sector blocks. Other assignments may have also been lost. I'm hoping that players more familiar with doffing will be able to create a more comprehensive list, though Cryptic should be able to do this themselves by looking at their old data.
Waiting for a programmer ...
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Also previously you might get a couple of supports a day or maybe get most of the cluster supports on a day now you can end up with a day like today where there are ZERO supports for KDF.
another espionage assignment that has disaapered is "deliver prototypes to allies in gamma quadrant" An assignment found in the cardassian sector nebulas that I for my part only found on my tactical.
The end result of this will undoubtedly be a stealth nerf of the science and medical commendation experience rate, since those missions were without a doubt the best science and medical doff missions in the game, especially on a critical. The ripple effect will be a slowdown of the rate of fleet marks gains, because 2 of the commendation types will be available less often.
Investigate Unmanned Jem'Hadar Warship
The wiki says that it appears in exploration clusters in Cardassian space and grants exploration CXP.
7/20 00:00 - 2 Fed Support Missions
7/20 20:00 - 3 Fed Support Missions
7/21 16:00 - 4 Fed Support Missions
7/22 12:00 - 5 Fed Support Missions
7/23 08:00 - 0 Fed Support Missions
For giggles I checked the KDF side during the 7/23 block and they have 1 KDF Support Mission.
Looks an awful lot like this is a simple iteration, each block increments by 1 and starts back to 0 after the 5th. This means 15 support missions every 5 days, or 3 per day... Are you saving your Pudos?
You forget that also missing with the elimination of exploration clusters is the chance at the generic missions found on department heads would be available. Basically every sector had a random extra chance with the DH in the corresponding exploration cluster. With those clusters gone, we have over a 50% reduction in finding those assignments in any sector as you only have one chance with the department head per sector which is leading to much more flying around to try and fill assignments with what my character needs. It is harder all around to find the equipment crafting assignments, commodities, gamma quadrant sci/medical crafting assignments, and other profitable assignment.
The removal of the exploration clusters has had a profoundly negative effect without any corresponding benefits so far. We have fewer choices, inferior selection on top of an interface that is still very problematic and of highly questionable benefits, and assignments that have disappeared or don't work (Tau Dewa Aid).
Now I just check the sheet...if there are only 0-2 supports listed for my faction, I don't even bother to log in anymore.
I've been here since beta
After tinkering with Doffing around the "new" clusters for a while, I noticed that every time I try to find cluster Doff missions they only ones availible are colonial ones. No more diplomatic, marauding, operations, etc. At first I thought it could perhaps be just my luck, although knowing Cryptic I highly doubted that and that's why I came here. And from what I can see in this thread, it's seems that it's not me, but the clusters really offer only colonial Doff missions now. Which royally sucks.
Is this WAI? If it is, which I assume it is, than it's another major nerf to the game in the long list of nerfs this year. How could having more varied Doff missions in the clusters possibly hurt?
Cryptic, you're nerfing this game into oblivion. It's gotten to a point where it's no longer fun to play.
This is one I miss considerably. Forced Labor Camp gets rid of all those Andorian and Ferengi prisoners that have failure traits for the Forced Labor Req
Aliella Hawklight, Divine Oracle Devoted Cleric
"Whenever a time arises where clarity is desired, it is always wise to reflect on the sage within."
― Sereda Aleta Dailey
DaiMon Moogie, U.S.S. Acquisition
Rule of Acquisition #57: Good customers are as rare as latinum. Treasure them.
STO LTS since launch; NW player since 2014; ARC user - only when I have to put in codes for free stuff
I actually mentioned this.
Which clusters did you find them in? How often do they appear?
First, and most significantly, it RADICALLY changes the flow of Blue and Purple DOFFs into the game. Most tradeable Purple Doffs come from Assylum missions. And 90% of the Refugees come from Support Colonization missions. I'm guessing Refugee production game-wide will drop by 50-75%. I know I used to get an average of at least 5 Support Missions per day per toon. 25 every 5 days. If we now have a max of 15 every 5 days, that cuts Refugee production by 40%. But its worse than that because I'm not going to fly around the entire galaxy to find one or two assignments. So for me and most, it will go from an average of 5 per day to an average of 2 per day, a 60% drop in Refugees (and also other DOFFS that result from grinding up the Bound Purples from Crits).
In short, production of Doffs has now fallen off a cliff. We already see it in the 2-3x change in Refugee prices on the Exchange. This will filter up through the rest of the DOFF ranks quickly.
More inflation. Oh well.
Second, it would seem that it would RADICALLY impede the ability of Fleets to generate White Doffs for projects. I know most of the Doffs for my fleet's projects come from grinding up Bound Purples from exploration missions.
BUT, for some reason White Doff prices have fallen on the Exchange. Mystery? Maybe not:
MYSTERY SOLVED?: The Requisition Personnel assignment at Starfleet Academy used to cost 1000 dil. NOW IT IS ONLY 5 DIL. I don't know when this changed, because I never went back after the original change to 1000 dil. But wondering why White Doff prices were dropping, I went and looked, and saw the 5 Dil price. (General Recruitment is still 1000, but the Department Specific assignments are only 5).
Has the 5 dil price for those assignments been around a while or is it new with 9.5? If new, it would explain the apparent mystery in white DOFF prices.
It would also seem a logical change if the Devs intended to throttle the production of bound Purples from the Support Missions.
Well originally it was all Free.
Then they added dil cost to all of them.
I'm pretty sure it got up to a lot of dil at one point, and that's why I stopped visiting SFA every day.
But if its always been 5 dil, then the White Doff price drop mystery is unsolved. Maybe just a fluke.
--Red Annorax
The upgrade (5W>1G) also cost dilithium.
so does the rest of the recruitment cost dilithium now? That would be annoying for new characters that haven't built up dilithium yet...
Those still exist but with the complete nerfing of Department Heads it's twice as hard to find them.
RE: Recruitment costs:
Everything from the Personnel Officer (and cultural exchanges) aside from General Recruitment is still free, I just checked. (GR still costs 1000, and the new Request R&D Assistance also costs 1000)
Joined January 2009
Currently I'm sitting in Eridon Nebula because I need to complete eridon colonial chain.
@DevolvedOne
For example: include Delta Volanis assignments into Sirius sector block.
They'd remove the exploration clusters, but problems with the 20-hour cooldown, non-availability on department heads and ships clustering on those clusters would be gone.
Immersion-wise it would also be consistent with the rest of the assignments in those sectors: we don't have to sit on Vulcan either, to make "Asylum on Vulcan" appear in sector or department head lists.
That's what I was talking about as well. Currently, as it is, only the colonial missions are availible from the clusters. So bye bye marauding and the raids you mentioned, bye bye diplomacy, the multitude od assignments listed under 'operations', etc.
Not only is this a major nerf, but it also means they flat out lied to us when they said that the removal of the clusters won't affect Doffing in any way!
Because new players get lost or somesuch rubbish. If a player cannot find their way out of a sector while one entire wall is the exit, they shouldn't be playing this game.
Just to underline how ridiculous this claim of new players getting lost is, you could actually exit the cluster by bumping up against ANY of the sector "walls".
:rolleyes:
Oh! AND, you could leave the exploration cluster by using the "Warp Out" Button which is normally greyed out in Sector space!
But here's my frequency, so hail me maybe?
Yes, it really is horrible for an avid doffer. I rarely bother going to the clusters any more because 1) the Raid missions for KDF are gone and 2) you have much less chance of getting any of the good assignments. Before, you always had 2 chances (and even 3 in B'tran and Azlesa) to get a good assignment (i.e. Colonial Support, Listening Post), but now it's 1 and done- it's either there or it's not, and the vast majority of the times it's not available, which makes it a waste of time to even try to get the missions. Also, there were additional missions available many times that were hard to find in sector space through the different DH's in clusters like "Study Characteristics of Ketracel White/random Gamma Quardrant commodity."
I am really disappointed with what they have done with the clusters. It might sound odd, but I do 2 things in this game- I PvP and I doff. They have never given any attention to PvP in the many years that this game has been online, and now they swing the Nerf Hammer at my doffing too. I'm going to be spending a lot less time in this game, which is probably a good thing.
@DevolvedOne
I said it before, they should have doubled the chances of doff missions appearing. Now between them being on sector timing and only available personally, the chances have been cut by 50%. And yes, the department heads ones ended up being the worst affected. New players trying to max diplomacy will have a worse grind than crafting.
Oh, you mean the incoherent ramblings and ranting of the whiny little b*****s? :rolleyes:
Isn't it awesome how Cryptic just listens and acts on our feedback? :rolleyes:
Intentional nerf. Mark my words. Don't forget, we're still in the D'Angelo era.
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Before this, I'd doff on multiple chars before I log out during each STO play session I had. I'd at least set it up on my KDF, Fed and RR mains. After S9.5 I can barely endure to set it up on one char before my body is crying to log out and don't bother trying that on another.
And after I saw that the doffing in clusters has also been nerfed to oblivion, I just felt a sad and depressing feeling about doffing right through my stomach.
Actually, their reasoning was - lolololol - 'because they are not up to our current standards' <pausing for hysterical laughter>
No, seriously, they said in the blog about exploration cluster removal that the mission quality was not up to their standards, and since you don't need to farm for R & D materials there anymore, they were removing the clusters.
They also said a lot about how this is continuing towards their higher quality standards, and would improve the overall quality of the game. Most of my game play is doffing; the quality, for me, has decreased overall to the point that I just get angry and keep logging out.
Aliella Hawklight, Divine Oracle Devoted Cleric
"Whenever a time arises where clarity is desired, it is always wise to reflect on the sage within."
― Sereda Aleta Dailey
DaiMon Moogie, U.S.S. Acquisition
Rule of Acquisition #57: Good customers are as rare as latinum. Treasure them.
STO LTS since launch; NW player since 2014; ARC user - only when I have to put in codes for free stuff