Personally, this type of thinking is why STO is going more Star Wars Clone Adventures "MMO" than a more story-driven Star Wars The Old Republic "MMO" (though TOR has started to put out more Clone Wars Adventures-style content). Its going to be to the point, where we don't get qued content anymore, but pure adventure zone, to the point even the most loyal of STO player will be why am I shooting at a Viidian? Dev response will be "because it was in an episode".
and what happen to the clone wars game? i know the answer it was shut down
Won't you be surprised when all those "single players" who have migrated here over the years pack up and leave...and aren't replced by the forced groupers who have hundreds of other MMOs to choose from. And lets face it, for forced group content it's done better in most of them.
Actually Cryptic's been doing an amazing job at keeping everything stable for the players! I think this is the best game where the players can sincerely say that 1 build does not win it all, because most top tier items are all on the same level.
Unfortunately downhill and going fast under this management.
It's still very salvageable, but big changes in the management and decision making staff are needed in order STO to pull back on the right track as it once, not so long ago, was.
Are you optimistic or worried? Somedays, I just don't know what to think.
This just isn't a Brain TRIBBLE. I think about this TRIBBLE and heres why. I like MMOs set in space. To have one Star Trek themed is even better. If sto died my options a preaty limited. Theres not any more star trek mmos out there to play right now. Maybe in a few years but thats a few years.
Alot of my concern comes from the forums. Within every Thread is a doom post. Whats sad is alot of times these people rightly justify themselves. It sure is depressing. Why can't people just be optomistic for once. If I want to depress myself I can just look at my weeding photos.
shouldnt this be merged into that doom!!! thread? :P
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Challenging group content that requires teamwork to conquer would be great fun and should be a staple of any MMO. Part of the allure and fun of MMOs are interacting and teaming with other players to achieve a goal.
I can completely see that point of view STO is by far one of the only games that I play on and off which some how I never get back the same enthusiasm and energy to play compared to other games I play like Fallout 3 and Vegas on the PC or Never Winter online.
Another point raised in this thread is about the grind fest in this game and yeah I agree its too much and feels at times more like hard work rather than fun where your just doing certain content in order to gain in this case currency for the Rep system that by far is not a great basis for engagement.
I mean sure all mmos to some degree rely on grind its just a fact at the moment and for the most part we as players are ok with this, what sepparates them from STO is how they deliver that i.e not making you painfuly aware that your grinding since your way too enthralled in the content being delivered; whether that be single player or pvp and last but not least good team activities too.
Its as if this game has a bad case of grinditis where they seem to believe this is the only way to create engagement with the player base and thus keep them returning, I would suggest that maybe some of the devs in their spare time should try some other mmos and see what there doing then ask how can they do the same thing maybe better etc.
In the end thats just good market research and common sense in my mind to do that sort of thing every so often that way you avoid stagnation.
I think the game is improving. Very slowly, but improving nonetheless. I see signs here and there.
I think up until the Legacy of Romulus that I would share that opinion. The expansion demonstrated a lot of positive development and improvement of the game. Some hangups, and nagging issues, but the direction looked bold and clear and slanted toward improvments.
Since then? I've seen the development team veer off in a direction that the playerbase generally isn't all that interested in.
Things like the crafting revamp and trait revamp ... the galaxy reboot ... changes to the systems ... it's all mostly getting negative feedback.
So I don't think the direction is where it used to be.
The second expansion and what's been revealed about it thus far also seems to be not stuff the players want.
And that's a major concern. The first expansion was exactly what players wanted. And had been clamoring for for years. And so the overwhelming response ended up being positive.
The second expansion isn't bringing anything like a new faction. So the criticism is likely to be stronger.
Personally, this type of thinking is why STO is going more Star Wars Clone Adventures "MMO" than a more story-driven Star Wars The Old Republic "MMO" (though TOR has started to put out more Clone Wars Adventures-style content). Its going to be to the point, where we don't get qued content anymore, but pure adventure zone, to the point even the most loyal of STO player will be why am I shooting at a Viidian? Dev response will be "because it was in an episode".
I actually believe it's queues that lead to the biggest problems with STO so far.
There was a time when there wasn't any queues, people could go to and enter Fleet Actions and STFs without having to use a menu system to join random pick-up groups. They instead reached out, made friends, and formed pre-made teams to tackle them.
Back in older games like SWG, we called this kind of thing "forming a community."
Not only that, but you didn't require a full team to tackle these things, you could have four out of five and still do these pre-queue Fleet Actions and STFs on the spot.
Frankly, the queues get boring after the umpteenth time, and it's always the newest queues that draw the most attention, leaving others dead in the water.
Queues also remove portions of the game world from us, and on the reverse side they remove *us* from the game world. We no longer ply well-traveled routes in sector space, going to strange new worlds, meeting new people, players or otherwise, along the way. We no longer see interesting events and sights while on a journey to another destination, maybe getting distracted and doing something new and different entirely. We just sit quietly in a corner of ESD, waiting for a queue to pop.
We don't need more fifteen-minute queues, we need open-ended content that is repeatable and varied.
Queues take away the game and leave us with a menu, sitting around in ESD all day long re-queuing the same fifteen-minutes of content over and over again. Most of the STO community no longer has a need to speak to each other or interact with others since all they have to do is quietly queue up, quietly run the queueable mission, and quietly leave without a word to another.
It's for these reasons and feelings that I actually like the adventure zones as opposed to the queues and wish that we'd get a lot of the older content back revamped and un-queued.
Also, I was under the impression that this sit-around-in-a-social-hub-queuing-up-short-bursts-of-content was actually more like Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures than the above-quote suggests.
As for where do I think the game's going? I can't say...I am both worried and cautiously excited at various hints and suggestions, though I am mildly upset at the removal of Star Clusters and related content (First Contacts) without viable replacements.
But being that I've been a part of several MMOs over the years, I will say that I hope the devs and their bosses look to the past of MMOs and avoid the problems that took them down. I don't need another SWG NGE-revamp that removes large portions of the game in favor of short bursts of content meant to only please short-term players. Long-term players should be the focus here while making it inviting for new potential long-term players (not the same as short-term players, there *is* a distinction).
My biggest concern is the way the try to nickle and dime every aspect of the game.
The crafting revamp is a good example,where Dilithium costs skyrocket for maybe something good,Dilithium can be used to speed up projects (there will be things you can craft that will take days,if not weeks)...and the catalists,the mystery items that are currently missing on Tribble,they are missing because they are C-store items which will be introduced as the revamp goes live.Items that will guarantee the outcome of a crafting project.
Where I think STO is headed? It's becoming more and more a typical Asian/Chinese MMO pay through the nose,grind fest.
And those Asian/Chinese MMO's are real popular in the US and Europe! /sarcasm off
The PWE/Cryptic sweatshop...not where the game is made,but where the game is played!
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
I think STO is trying to get back on track after how far off it veered over the past two years. However, all those folks that Cryptic picked up in those last two years are not very happy about it. They should perhaps take a look at trying to find the middle path - after all, the path from back then was killing the game as much as the path from the past two years...they need to find the middleground and stride forward to a bright future...
I actually believe it's queues that lead to the biggest problems with STO so far.
There was a time when there wasn't any queues, people could go to and enter Fleet Actions and STFs without having to use a menu system to join random pick-up groups. They instead reached out, made friends, and formed pre-made teams to tackle them.
Back in older games like SWG, we called this kind of thing "forming a community."
Not only that, but you didn't require a full team to tackle these things, you could have four out of five and still do these pre-queue Fleet Actions and STFs on the spot.
Frankly, the queues get boring after the umpteenth time, and it's always the newest queues that draw the most attention, leaving others dead in the water.
Queues also remove portions of the game world from us, and on the reverse side they remove *us* from the game world. We no longer ply well-traveled routes in sector space, going to strange new worlds, meeting new people, players or otherwise, along the way. We no longer see interesting events and sights while on a journey to another destination, maybe getting distracted and doing something new and different entirely. We just sit quietly in a corner of ESD, waiting for a queue to pop.
We don't need more fifteen-minute queues, we need open-ended content that is repeatable and varied.
Queues take away the game and leave us with a menu, sitting around in ESD all day long re-queuing the same fifteen-minutes of content over and over again. Most of the STO community no longer has a need to speak to each other or interact with others since all they have to do is quietly queue up, quietly run the queueable mission, and quietly leave without a word to another.
It's for these reasons and feelings that I actually like the adventure zones as opposed to the queues and wish that we'd get a lot of the older content back revamped and un-queued.
Also, I was under the impression that this sit-around-in-a-social-hub-queuing-up-short-bursts-of-content was actually more like Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures than the above-quote suggests.
As for where do I think the game's going? I can't say...I am both worried and cautiously excited at various hints and suggestions, though I am mildly upset at the removal of Star Clusters and related content (First Contacts) without viable replacements.
But being that I've been a part of several MMOs over the years, I will say that I hope the devs and their bosses look to the past of MMOs and avoid the problems that took them down. I don't need another SWG NGE-revamp that removes large portions of the game in favor of short bursts of content meant to only please short-term players. Long-term players should be the focus here while making it inviting for new potential long-term players (not the same as short-term players, there *is* a distinction).
There was no actually multi-player aspect to Clone Wars Adventures, it was just a central hub with mini-games spread all over. Neverwinter is very much similar to that game style and STO is starting to follow Neverwinter's lead. The Que does not take away the community of the game, the Que helps gamers who are either too shy or don't have the time or patience to be in a fleet to let them play what is supposed to be in theory, the games more challenging aspects that awards better gear. However, STO's challenge is the player's patience and endurance. STO's challenging content went out the window with the dev's course of casual game play. I have played Neverwinter's more challenging content and the dev's do not know how to make good dungeon/raid mechanics beyond buffing the boss and a mass amount of mobs.
I would love this game to find that happy medium, put out adventure zone content, but also keep bringing out the challenging stuff. It is those extreme casuals who will spend hours in game doing not that much but the quick five to 10 min content and complain that the higher tier of gear is out of reach for them.
Yet, since season 8, we have gotten partially completed content releases, since LOR we have been getting less and less story, and since Neverwinter's release, we have been getting more and more time-gated items. Personally, I only come in to run the flyer missions for the main and a couple of alts and then I log off. The other areas of the game are mostly ghost towns and low ques.
Where do I think it's going?
I'm not sure.
Where do I *hope* it goes?
Well, I hope it's going to take on more of an RPG aspect, and less of a 3rd person shooter. Right now, the only difference in ground is the different gear you can equip, and your class traits. Your skills have no impact beyond a small modifier to damage/healing.
When everything becomes about combat, then combat is all you have. That's a shame, because the Trek universe is a very rich one. Science and diplomatic methods should be a key part. Our skills should help us actually DO things, not be a DPS modifier.
We're starting to see this a little, first with the new Mirror event which actually made a difference based on your class. There needs to be more though. Right now, in a mission, everything is always achievable. Nothing ever goes wrong. You're a new Lt Cmdr medic planting explosives, Why of course it's going to go perfectly, just like that Tactical Vice Admiral doing it.
There needs to be an optimal way (which is how the missions run now) and a 'fail' way. You do a skills check, you make it, you get the task done, else you trip something etc. It stops the emphasis being just on DPS, and brings it back to teams of balanced skill. If you have a perfectly balanced team, and the RIGHT team member does each job, then you should progress as we currently do, otherwise it's a lot harder because bad things happen (like if you try to shut down a rogue portal in Undine Assault and you're the wrong class). It's damned near impossible to fail the missions, you've just got to repeat until you are done, or run out of time. It leads to a lack of challenge, because if you just keep plugging, you'll do it eventually, who needs tactics when attrition works?
Next, PLEASE, re-link the Omega force missions. They were written/created as a storyline, so put them back as being a storyline. So they're long, so what. The Space ones are always busy, the ground ones always not, but they were designed to go together. Omega marks are always in demand, and it just makes sense. Which brings us to queues.
Queues have become a bit of a problem. In the past 3 weeks, my characters have left Risa exactly twice. on both occasions they all took a quick transwarp to the fleet starbase, because their inventories were full, and there was no half-price seller on Risa. Soon as I was done, it was transwarp right back. Why? Because I could do every event from Risa, just using the queue. Infiltration elite, storming the spire elite, colony invasion, Cure elite; I can fight all over the galaxy and never leave the dance party. Most of the events have map positions, if you want to queue, then there should be queuing there. Ok, lets be nicer, a queue region for all related missions, say "queue at Battle Group Omega for the Borg STF's. Nukara ones should go back to being on Nukara as they were.
Also the missions. I'm going to kinda miss the exploration ones. It was a good concept. It just needs 'more'. The missions were very bland and forgettable, would it really be so much to increase their complexity some? Work off some of the medium foundary missions if need be. Even if its just a dozen different 'modules' that each have a random aspect, and you get 2-4 to make a quick mission, it would be 'better'. It's not always so hard to make either - I work on a distributed Particle accelerator design project (Muon1) and our accelerators are designed that way.
Finally, there's only one thing I would ask for. Can we PLEASE have a little mark on items to show they're 'bound'. we have the colour splash bottom left, how about a different corner being filled in in Red or yellow (and not a big one at that, maybe 5-8 pixels a side, just enough to clearly mark) because constant hovering is annoying (especially with things like hypos)
Right now we don't have an MMORPG. We have Trek-themed Counterstrike, and that's not good at all.
The answer seems to be pretty easy. I mean, why should STO take a different path than all the other MMO's? They start good to great, have a good contact to their playerbase, thoughtfull dev's and then the guys with the ties take over. After that point it's just a slow dying process. No bug fixing anymore, unwanted content, no contact with the officials. Sounds familiar?
So you're a native speaker and I'm not. So what?:P
I think up until the Legacy of Romulus that I would share that opinion. The expansion demonstrated a lot of positive development and improvement of the game. Some hangups, and nagging issues, but the direction looked bold and clear and slanted toward improvments.
Since then? I've seen the development team veer off in a direction that the playerbase generally isn't all that interested in.
Things like the crafting revamp and trait revamp ... the galaxy reboot ... changes to the systems ... it's all mostly getting negative feedback.
So I don't think the direction is where it used to be.
The second expansion and what's been revealed about it thus far also seems to be not stuff the players want.
And that's a major concern. The first expansion was exactly what players wanted. And had been clamoring for for years. And so the overwhelming response ended up being positive.
The second expansion isn't bringing anything like a new faction. So the criticism is likely to be stronger.
I completely agree with this assertion. Don't have anything more to add, it's precisely how I feel about the things happening in STO.
...Queues also remove portions of the game world from us, and on the reverse side they remove *us* from the game world. We no longer ply well-traveled routes in sector space, going to strange new worlds, meeting new people, players or otherwise, along the way. We no longer see interesting events and sights while on a journey to another destination, maybe getting distracted and doing something new and different entirely. We just sit quietly in a corner of ESD, waiting for a queue to pop.
We don't need more fifteen-minute queues, we need open-ended content that is repeatable and varied.
Queues take away the game and leave us with a menu, sitting around in ESD all day long re-queuing the same fifteen-minutes of content over and over again. Most of the STO community no longer has a need to speak to each other or interact with others since all they have to do is quietly queue up, quietly run the queueable mission, and quietly leave without a word to another...
I'm also inclined to agree with this. Not the removal of queues per say, but the simplification of the game world where we could as well end up in one room and just access everything from there.
Some of us have been expressing concerns about what I personally call "dumbification" of the game. There were many of us that warned about developments like these we're facing today in those several threads with heated discussions when they decided to enable the players to switch ships on the go without visiting a starbase or a social zone.
Ofcourse any opinion of concern was trashed and shut down by the blind fanboy group we have on the forum, that has serious issues looking further than their nose - so in their eyes Cryptic can do no wrong even if it happens to be unintentional. I remember their main argument being - "leave me to play my game the way I want to, cause it doesn't affect your gameplay." Many of us warned that it's making a precedent and putting us on the path of further "dumbification" of STO that could lead to open space being irrelevant and even non-existant in a Star Trek game of all places! Ofcoruse, those warnings were brushed off as well - and what do we face today? The removal of exploration clusters, making the game feel smaller and smaller and making open space even more useless with every consecutive season.
Don't get me wrong - when I (and many others I know) openly criticize Cryptic about some decisions they make for STO, it's not because we're haters or we hate Cryptic. (Funny story, I've been called a Cryptic hater and a CDF both this past month) It's because we care, we like the game, we want it to become more and more sucessfull and really have a long and healthy life. It's because we're worried about the general direction.
Because when Cryptic burns out STO and the players too soon, they'll just jump to their next project and they'll be good - but we as Star Trek fans won't have a Star Trek game to go to anymore. And I wouldn't want to see that happen in the forseable future.
Cryptic and PWE should sit down and really, and I mean really think through what they're doing, where they're taking STO and what they could achieve with a different aproach. The game has a lot of potential and Star Trek has such a vast and colorfull lore that could sustain the game for a long long time, if their management with the resources is smart.
What I'm seeing currently is focus on "churn & burn", which probably works better and is more lucrative over the short term, but really loses over the long term and the potential a Star Trek game has to last a long time. If their focus remains solely on making STO as simplified as possible to be aproachable to anyone that barely manages to plug-in a computer, I'm afraid that the game won't last that long, not as long as I'd want to at least. Because those people will come, spend a month or two, get bored and hop to another MMO of the month - but making the game so chalengeless would also see (and is seeing) many core players leave in dissapointment.
Anyway, sorry for the wall of text this turned out to be, it's easy to get lost in it when you're passionate about something.
Are you optimistic or worried? Somedays, I just don't know what to think.
This just isn't a Brain TRIBBLE. I think about this TRIBBLE and heres why. I like MMOs set in space. To have one Star Trek themed is even better. If sto died my options a preaty limited. Theres not any more star trek mmos out there to play right now. Maybe in a few years but thats a few years.
Alot of my concern comes from the forums. Within every Thread is a doom post. Whats sad is alot of times these people rightly justify themselves. It sure is depressing. Why can't people just be optomistic for once. If I want to depress myself I can just look at my weeding photos.
According to PerfectWorld's May 19th and June 20th press releases, they lost around 18% of their pc users. 667,000 pc users currently play Perfect World games. PerfectWorld is making gains in mobile users, which they believe will offset the loss in pc users.
PerfectWorld's revenue is strong with mobile users, but they are having a hard time with maintaining pc users. Was it due to cheating or the season? Who knows?
667,000 pc users is a good pool of players.
Since I have no idea about 'big' business, I do not know if any of this is healthy.
I think this also explains why Cryptic is consolidating game features.
"Star Trek: Online" is being turned into an MMO for mobile devices. Some of the latest changes include: Introduction to Arc, Crafting Revamp, Duty Officer Changes, Removal of Clusters, Gateway, etc... All the new changes add up to mobile device interaction. Cryptic is turning "Star Trek: Online" into a point-and-click experience, so they can transition everything over to tablets. Large icons and images are a BIG giveaway.
I bet the next expansion and/or season ten will be the final step. Once the final pieces are in place, I will most likely move onto an entirely different game and franchise.
Nothing lasts forever. "Star Trek: Online's" new competition:
Star Trek Timelines, a new Star Trek strategy role-playing (SRPG) game, is in the works from Disruptor Beam, the developers behind Game of Thrones Ascent. The story-driven game will enable Trek fans to create their ultimate starship and crew, and to explore the Star Trek multiverse using content (including technology, cultures and races) and favorite characters from across the franchise, including The Original Series, The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Voyager and Enterprise.
Disruptor Beam is now in the process of developing Star Trek Timelines, which will challenge players to resolve issues through diplomacy, science, and combat. The game will feature entirely original artwork and 3D graphics throughout and will be available across mobile and web platforms upon completion.
Star Trek Timelines... is a multiplayer game where youll team up with your friends to explore the galaxy, resolve diplomatic conflicts, become embroiled in war, discover new civilizations, and research scientific breakthroughs.
"Star Trek: Online" no longer and/or does not have those core concepts, which were responsible for making the franchise popular. CBS appears to have moved beyond "Star Trek: Online".
I personally do not like tablet games, so I hope CBS will decide to create an offline rpg.
For me, the moment I saw "dinosaurs with frickin' laser beams" I knew STO had jumped the shark. Probably a few more years left in it, but I think it's definitely on the downhill slope overall.
Star Trek has had a constant power creep for a while now. Everything we get is centered around DPS (and Escorts). I think Cryptic's overlords are not allowing Cryptic to have freedom. The overlord's want a Far Eastern MMO clone with the Star Trek IP attached. The best example of this is how we're all Admirals on this game but we do not:
1. Command a fleet
2. Do not assign a ship(s) to cruise a galaxy
3. Do not have any diplomatic meetings/missions where we are trying to avoid war
4. Can not command other ships in fleet styled combat.
We spend more time within our ships fighting than anything else. Exploration and Mediation are not at the forefront of this game. I understand it has to be entertaining, but it's no longer in the spirit of Star Trek. If it wasn't for the name, I personally wouldn't even touch this game.
I keep playing because I have a shred of hope that one day, I'd log onto this forum and see that they are free from their Eastern Overlords and are revamping the entire game from the ground up. Yes I know that's a Naive idea, but it's all I have left. The way this game is going, theirs NOTHING special about it. It's become a generic space MMO with just the Start Trek name attached. To me that is a slap in the face to Star Trek and it's legion of fans.
One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
For me, the moment I saw "dinosaurs with frickin' laser beams" I knew STO had jumped the shark. Probably a few more years left in it, but I think it's definitely on the downhill slope overall.
And even that, dinousarus with lasers in the battlezone have more sense than players piloting undine ships.. if you think on it. But you need to think on it seriously... :P
I have no idea. I'm worried the 'STO to mobile' people are right. I'm worried that more grinds and money grabs will cause STO to die of attrition.
Losing 18% of your customers in any department is bad. Maybe PWE and Cryptic will learn that in-game gambles and grinds are actually short-term solutions to long-term problems: lack of cash and lack of regular, interesting new content, respectively.
Cryptic - time and time again - have seemingly failed to realize that many (read: most) of the players are here because of Star Trek, not because this game is a good one.
It's gotten to the point where I'm not still here because of even the Star Trek IP. I'm here because I still have good friends in the community.
In Summary:
When my friends in this community leave - many have already gone, and at this rate, the rest will soon - so will I.
It's gotten to the point where I'm not still here because of even the Star Trek IP. I'm here because I still have good friends in the community.
In Summary: When my friends in this community leave - many have already gone, and at this rate, the rest will soon - so will I.
If it was not for making so many friends, I would have left a few months ago. Many of my friends are also starting to leave, so its just a matter of when I will depart. I do not know. Unless Cryptic adds in some non-grinding mechanics, I think my departure will be sooner than later.
When you compare them to computers, mobile devices are a very primitive form of technology.
STO is heading the way all MMO's go, its going to be shut down...... in 2 years....... 10 years..... who knows? Just be safe in the knowledge that the only thing we can predict about the future is one day the hamsters running in the wheels to power the servers will die and PWE wont replace them. Until then just enjoy what the game has to offer between now and then. :cool:
"Star Trek: Online" is being turned into an MMO for mobile devices. Some of the latest changes include: Introduction to Arc, Crafting Revamp, Duty Officer Changes, Removal of Clusters, Gateway, etc... All the new changes add up to mobile device interaction. Cryptic is turning "Star Trek: Online" into a point-and-click experience, so they can transition everything over to tablets. Large icons and images are a BIG giveaway.
I bet the next expansion and/or season ten will be the final step. Once the final pieces are in place, I will most likely move onto an entirely different game and franchise.
Nothing lasts forever. "Star Trek: Online's" new competition:
"Star Trek: Online" no longer and/or does not have those core concepts, which were responsible for making the franchise popular. CBS appears to have moved beyond "Star Trek: Online".
I personally do not like tablet games, so I hope CBS will decide to create an offline rpg.
Let us see what happens.
I do like to remain hopeful, but this is DISTURBING.
I do like to remain hopeful, but this is DISTURBING.
Why is it disturbing? CBS licenses Trek in any way they can - it is the only way they can make income from their IP other then via syndication of the various series. There are no new Trek series by CBS, thus no new Trek money without licenses.
When STO was in development CBS also licensed Star Trek: Infinite Space to Gameforge. ST:IS even had the Okudas as technical advisers, but they could not get it off the ground - and Gameforge is a huge European game developer/distributor. I played the demo at a couple of conventions. Much like Perpetual with STO it went nowhere. Star Trek Timelines could go nowhere too. I do not get any expectations, good or bad, about a game until it actually Launches - because many never make it to Launch and many more are nothing like what they advertised to be prior to Launch.
Plus Timelines is a browser/mobile game, and those do not tend to be great.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Why is it disturbing? CBS licenses Trek in any way they can - it is the only way they can make income from their IP other then via syndication of the various series. There are no new Trek series by CBS, thus no new Trek money without licenses.
When STO was in development CBS also licensed Star Trek: Infinite Space to Gameforge. ST:IS even had the Okudas as technical advisers, but they could not get it off the ground - and Gameforge is a huge European game developer/distributor. I played the demo at a couple of conventions. Much like Perpetual with STO it went nowhere. Star Trek Timelines could go nowhere too. I do not get any expectations, good or bad, about a game until it actually Launches - because many never make it to Launch and many more are nothing like what they advertised to be prior to Launch.
Plus Timelines is a browser/mobile game, and those do not tend to be great.
To be fair of Infinite Space, just prior going to Beta, Gameforge had a massive layoff and tried to sell the game to Bigpoint Games, but failed.
However, Timelines is being made by the Game of Thrones Ascent people, so I have better hopes, and this new Browser MMO coming out sounds not too thrilling.
However, Timelines is being made by the Game of Thrones Ascent people, so I have better hopes, and this new Browser MMO coming out sounds not too thrilling.
Keep in mind that Timelines is being built for the iPad/iPhone market. It is not a PC game, nor a Console game. While these types of games tend to be strategy-based they do not have overly-involved graphics or story play. You are not talking about MMO or SPG quality here.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Keep in mind that Timelines is being built for the iPad/iPhone market. It is not a PC game, nor a Console game. While these types of games tend to be strategy-based they do not have overly-involved graphics or story play. You are not talking about MMO or SPG quality here.
No, they will be finish the game and you're done. They will be nothing to really draw you back. I fear that STO's conversion to even more casual, will start driving the even more loyalists away or at least cut back on their game time. I think that Expansion 2 will be the bridging technology that will make this game into a true theme-park game similar to Neverwinter. The older content will be phased out and a loading screen will be your ship.
Why is it disturbing? CBS licenses Trek in any way they can - it is the only way they can make income from their IP other then via syndication of the various series. There are no new Trek series by CBS, thus no new Trek money without licenses.
When STO was in development CBS also licensed Star Trek: Infinite Space to Gameforge. ST:IS even had the Okudas as technical advisers, but they could not get it off the ground - and Gameforge is a huge European game developer/distributor. I played the demo at a couple of conventions. Much like Perpetual with STO it went nowhere. Star Trek Timelines could go nowhere too. I do not get any expectations, good or bad, about a game until it actually Launches - because many never make it to Launch and many more are nothing like what they advertised to be prior to Launch.
Plus Timelines is a browser/mobile game, and those do not tend to be great.
What I find disturbing is the linked financial metrics and the signs pointing to turning STO into a mobile device clicky game. Not the other game being developed.
It says flat out that the loss of PC customers are making them push towards mobile gaming. Another example of the powers that be refusing to fix the actual problem and taking the game in an undesired direction for a quick cash in rather than do the work required for real long-term growth. I feel this does not bode well for my favorite Trek game.
Comments
and what happen to the clone wars game? i know the answer it was shut down
system Lord Baal is dead
... where no-one has gone before ...
Yeah, it was closed down along with all but a handful of SOE's mmos because they were refocusing and streamlining their business.
Actually Cryptic's been doing an amazing job at keeping everything stable for the players! I think this is the best game where the players can sincerely say that 1 build does not win it all, because most top tier items are all on the same level.
Unfortunately downhill and going fast under this management.
It's still very salvageable, but big changes in the management and decision making staff are needed in order STO to pull back on the right track as it once, not so long ago, was.
shouldnt this be merged into that doom!!! thread? :P
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I'll just leave this here...
I can completely see that point of view STO is by far one of the only games that I play on and off which some how I never get back the same enthusiasm and energy to play compared to other games I play like Fallout 3 and Vegas on the PC or Never Winter online.
Another point raised in this thread is about the grind fest in this game and yeah I agree its too much and feels at times more like hard work rather than fun where your just doing certain content in order to gain in this case currency for the Rep system that by far is not a great basis for engagement.
I mean sure all mmos to some degree rely on grind its just a fact at the moment and for the most part we as players are ok with this, what sepparates them from STO is how they deliver that i.e not making you painfuly aware that your grinding since your way too enthralled in the content being delivered; whether that be single player or pvp and last but not least good team activities too.
Its as if this game has a bad case of grinditis where they seem to believe this is the only way to create engagement with the player base and thus keep them returning, I would suggest that maybe some of the devs in their spare time should try some other mmos and see what there doing then ask how can they do the same thing maybe better etc.
In the end thats just good market research and common sense in my mind to do that sort of thing every so often that way you avoid stagnation.
I think up until the Legacy of Romulus that I would share that opinion. The expansion demonstrated a lot of positive development and improvement of the game. Some hangups, and nagging issues, but the direction looked bold and clear and slanted toward improvments.
Since then? I've seen the development team veer off in a direction that the playerbase generally isn't all that interested in.
Things like the crafting revamp and trait revamp ... the galaxy reboot ... changes to the systems ... it's all mostly getting negative feedback.
So I don't think the direction is where it used to be.
The second expansion and what's been revealed about it thus far also seems to be not stuff the players want.
And that's a major concern. The first expansion was exactly what players wanted. And had been clamoring for for years. And so the overwhelming response ended up being positive.
The second expansion isn't bringing anything like a new faction. So the criticism is likely to be stronger.
I actually believe it's queues that lead to the biggest problems with STO so far.
There was a time when there wasn't any queues, people could go to and enter Fleet Actions and STFs without having to use a menu system to join random pick-up groups. They instead reached out, made friends, and formed pre-made teams to tackle them.
Back in older games like SWG, we called this kind of thing "forming a community."
Not only that, but you didn't require a full team to tackle these things, you could have four out of five and still do these pre-queue Fleet Actions and STFs on the spot.
Frankly, the queues get boring after the umpteenth time, and it's always the newest queues that draw the most attention, leaving others dead in the water.
Queues also remove portions of the game world from us, and on the reverse side they remove *us* from the game world. We no longer ply well-traveled routes in sector space, going to strange new worlds, meeting new people, players or otherwise, along the way. We no longer see interesting events and sights while on a journey to another destination, maybe getting distracted and doing something new and different entirely. We just sit quietly in a corner of ESD, waiting for a queue to pop.
We don't need more fifteen-minute queues, we need open-ended content that is repeatable and varied.
Queues take away the game and leave us with a menu, sitting around in ESD all day long re-queuing the same fifteen-minutes of content over and over again. Most of the STO community no longer has a need to speak to each other or interact with others since all they have to do is quietly queue up, quietly run the queueable mission, and quietly leave without a word to another.
It's for these reasons and feelings that I actually like the adventure zones as opposed to the queues and wish that we'd get a lot of the older content back revamped and un-queued.
Also, I was under the impression that this sit-around-in-a-social-hub-queuing-up-short-bursts-of-content was actually more like Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures than the above-quote suggests.
As for where do I think the game's going? I can't say...I am both worried and cautiously excited at various hints and suggestions, though I am mildly upset at the removal of Star Clusters and related content (First Contacts) without viable replacements.
But being that I've been a part of several MMOs over the years, I will say that I hope the devs and their bosses look to the past of MMOs and avoid the problems that took them down. I don't need another SWG NGE-revamp that removes large portions of the game in favor of short bursts of content meant to only please short-term players. Long-term players should be the focus here while making it inviting for new potential long-term players (not the same as short-term players, there *is* a distinction).
The crafting revamp is a good example,where Dilithium costs skyrocket for maybe something good,Dilithium can be used to speed up projects (there will be things you can craft that will take days,if not weeks)...and the catalists,the mystery items that are currently missing on Tribble,they are missing because they are C-store items which will be introduced as the revamp goes live.Items that will guarantee the outcome of a crafting project.
Where I think STO is headed? It's becoming more and more a typical Asian/Chinese MMO pay through the nose,grind fest.
And those Asian/Chinese MMO's are real popular in the US and Europe! /sarcasm off
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
There was no actually multi-player aspect to Clone Wars Adventures, it was just a central hub with mini-games spread all over. Neverwinter is very much similar to that game style and STO is starting to follow Neverwinter's lead. The Que does not take away the community of the game, the Que helps gamers who are either too shy or don't have the time or patience to be in a fleet to let them play what is supposed to be in theory, the games more challenging aspects that awards better gear. However, STO's challenge is the player's patience and endurance. STO's challenging content went out the window with the dev's course of casual game play. I have played Neverwinter's more challenging content and the dev's do not know how to make good dungeon/raid mechanics beyond buffing the boss and a mass amount of mobs.
I would love this game to find that happy medium, put out adventure zone content, but also keep bringing out the challenging stuff. It is those extreme casuals who will spend hours in game doing not that much but the quick five to 10 min content and complain that the higher tier of gear is out of reach for them.
Yet, since season 8, we have gotten partially completed content releases, since LOR we have been getting less and less story, and since Neverwinter's release, we have been getting more and more time-gated items. Personally, I only come in to run the flyer missions for the main and a couple of alts and then I log off. The other areas of the game are mostly ghost towns and low ques.
I'm not sure.
Where do I *hope* it goes?
Well, I hope it's going to take on more of an RPG aspect, and less of a 3rd person shooter. Right now, the only difference in ground is the different gear you can equip, and your class traits. Your skills have no impact beyond a small modifier to damage/healing.
When everything becomes about combat, then combat is all you have. That's a shame, because the Trek universe is a very rich one. Science and diplomatic methods should be a key part. Our skills should help us actually DO things, not be a DPS modifier.
We're starting to see this a little, first with the new Mirror event which actually made a difference based on your class. There needs to be more though. Right now, in a mission, everything is always achievable. Nothing ever goes wrong. You're a new Lt Cmdr medic planting explosives, Why of course it's going to go perfectly, just like that Tactical Vice Admiral doing it.
There needs to be an optimal way (which is how the missions run now) and a 'fail' way. You do a skills check, you make it, you get the task done, else you trip something etc. It stops the emphasis being just on DPS, and brings it back to teams of balanced skill. If you have a perfectly balanced team, and the RIGHT team member does each job, then you should progress as we currently do, otherwise it's a lot harder because bad things happen (like if you try to shut down a rogue portal in Undine Assault and you're the wrong class). It's damned near impossible to fail the missions, you've just got to repeat until you are done, or run out of time. It leads to a lack of challenge, because if you just keep plugging, you'll do it eventually, who needs tactics when attrition works?
Next, PLEASE, re-link the Omega force missions. They were written/created as a storyline, so put them back as being a storyline. So they're long, so what. The Space ones are always busy, the ground ones always not, but they were designed to go together. Omega marks are always in demand, and it just makes sense. Which brings us to queues.
Queues have become a bit of a problem. In the past 3 weeks, my characters have left Risa exactly twice. on both occasions they all took a quick transwarp to the fleet starbase, because their inventories were full, and there was no half-price seller on Risa. Soon as I was done, it was transwarp right back. Why? Because I could do every event from Risa, just using the queue. Infiltration elite, storming the spire elite, colony invasion, Cure elite; I can fight all over the galaxy and never leave the dance party. Most of the events have map positions, if you want to queue, then there should be queuing there. Ok, lets be nicer, a queue region for all related missions, say "queue at Battle Group Omega for the Borg STF's. Nukara ones should go back to being on Nukara as they were.
Also the missions. I'm going to kinda miss the exploration ones. It was a good concept. It just needs 'more'. The missions were very bland and forgettable, would it really be so much to increase their complexity some? Work off some of the medium foundary missions if need be. Even if its just a dozen different 'modules' that each have a random aspect, and you get 2-4 to make a quick mission, it would be 'better'. It's not always so hard to make either - I work on a distributed Particle accelerator design project (Muon1) and our accelerators are designed that way.
Finally, there's only one thing I would ask for. Can we PLEASE have a little mark on items to show they're 'bound'. we have the colour splash bottom left, how about a different corner being filled in in Red or yellow (and not a big one at that, maybe 5-8 pixels a side, just enough to clearly mark) because constant hovering is annoying (especially with things like hypos)
Right now we don't have an MMORPG. We have Trek-themed Counterstrike, and that's not good at all.
I completely agree with this assertion. Don't have anything more to add, it's precisely how I feel about the things happening in STO.
I'm also inclined to agree with this. Not the removal of queues per say, but the simplification of the game world where we could as well end up in one room and just access everything from there.
Some of us have been expressing concerns about what I personally call "dumbification" of the game. There were many of us that warned about developments like these we're facing today in those several threads with heated discussions when they decided to enable the players to switch ships on the go without visiting a starbase or a social zone.
Ofcourse any opinion of concern was trashed and shut down by the blind fanboy group we have on the forum, that has serious issues looking further than their nose - so in their eyes Cryptic can do no wrong even if it happens to be unintentional. I remember their main argument being - "leave me to play my game the way I want to, cause it doesn't affect your gameplay." Many of us warned that it's making a precedent and putting us on the path of further "dumbification" of STO that could lead to open space being irrelevant and even non-existant in a Star Trek game of all places! Ofcoruse, those warnings were brushed off as well - and what do we face today? The removal of exploration clusters, making the game feel smaller and smaller and making open space even more useless with every consecutive season.
Don't get me wrong - when I (and many others I know) openly criticize Cryptic about some decisions they make for STO, it's not because we're haters or we hate Cryptic. (Funny story, I've been called a Cryptic hater and a CDF both this past month
Because when Cryptic burns out STO and the players too soon, they'll just jump to their next project and they'll be good - but we as Star Trek fans won't have a Star Trek game to go to anymore. And I wouldn't want to see that happen in the forseable future.
Cryptic and PWE should sit down and really, and I mean really think through what they're doing, where they're taking STO and what they could achieve with a different aproach. The game has a lot of potential and Star Trek has such a vast and colorfull lore that could sustain the game for a long long time, if their management with the resources is smart.
What I'm seeing currently is focus on "churn & burn", which probably works better and is more lucrative over the short term, but really loses over the long term and the potential a Star Trek game has to last a long time. If their focus remains solely on making STO as simplified as possible to be aproachable to anyone that barely manages to plug-in a computer, I'm afraid that the game won't last that long, not as long as I'd want to at least. Because those people will come, spend a month or two, get bored and hop to another MMO of the month - but making the game so chalengeless would also see (and is seeing) many core players leave in dissapointment.
Anyway, sorry for the wall of text this turned out to be, it's easy to get lost in it when you're passionate about something.
I bet the next expansion and/or season ten will be the final step. Once the final pieces are in place, I will most likely move onto an entirely different game and franchise.
Nothing lasts forever.
"Star Trek: Online's" new competition:
Link: FIRST LOOK: Star Trek Timelines
Link: StarTrek Timelines
Link: Vision for Star Trek Timelines
"Star Trek: Online" no longer and/or does not have those core concepts, which were responsible for making the franchise popular. CBS appears to have moved beyond "Star Trek: Online".
I personally do not like tablet games, so I hope CBS will decide to create an offline rpg.
Let us see what happens.
But hey, "All Good Things" must come to an end. Otherwise zombies...
1. Command a fleet
2. Do not assign a ship(s) to cruise a galaxy
3. Do not have any diplomatic meetings/missions where we are trying to avoid war
4. Can not command other ships in fleet styled combat.
We spend more time within our ships fighting than anything else. Exploration and Mediation are not at the forefront of this game. I understand it has to be entertaining, but it's no longer in the spirit of Star Trek. If it wasn't for the name, I personally wouldn't even touch this game.
I keep playing because I have a shred of hope that one day, I'd log onto this forum and see that they are free from their Eastern Overlords and are revamping the entire game from the ground up. Yes I know that's a Naive idea, but it's all I have left. The way this game is going, theirs NOTHING special about it. It's become a generic space MMO with just the Start Trek name attached. To me that is a slap in the face to Star Trek and it's legion of fans.
And even that, dinousarus with lasers in the battlezone have more sense than players piloting undine ships.. if you think on it. But you need to think on it seriously... :P
Losing 18% of your customers in any department is bad. Maybe PWE and Cryptic will learn that in-game gambles and grinds are actually short-term solutions to long-term problems: lack of cash and lack of regular, interesting new content, respectively.
Cryptic - time and time again - have seemingly failed to realize that many (read: most) of the players are here because of Star Trek, not because this game is a good one.
It's gotten to the point where I'm not still here because of even the Star Trek IP. I'm here because I still have good friends in the community.
In Summary:
When my friends in this community leave - many have already gone, and at this rate, the rest will soon - so will I.
When you compare them to computers, mobile devices are a very primitive form of technology.
I do like to remain hopeful, but this is DISTURBING.
When STO was in development CBS also licensed Star Trek: Infinite Space to Gameforge. ST:IS even had the Okudas as technical advisers, but they could not get it off the ground - and Gameforge is a huge European game developer/distributor. I played the demo at a couple of conventions. Much like Perpetual with STO it went nowhere. Star Trek Timelines could go nowhere too. I do not get any expectations, good or bad, about a game until it actually Launches - because many never make it to Launch and many more are nothing like what they advertised to be prior to Launch.
Plus Timelines is a browser/mobile game, and those do not tend to be great.
To be fair of Infinite Space, just prior going to Beta, Gameforge had a massive layoff and tried to sell the game to Bigpoint Games, but failed.
However, Timelines is being made by the Game of Thrones Ascent people, so I have better hopes, and this new Browser MMO coming out sounds not too thrilling.
No, they will be finish the game and you're done. They will be nothing to really draw you back. I fear that STO's conversion to even more casual, will start driving the even more loyalists away or at least cut back on their game time. I think that Expansion 2 will be the bridging technology that will make this game into a true theme-park game similar to Neverwinter. The older content will be phased out and a loading screen will be your ship.
What I find disturbing is the linked financial metrics and the signs pointing to turning STO into a mobile device clicky game. Not the other game being developed.
It says flat out that the loss of PC customers are making them push towards mobile gaming. Another example of the powers that be refusing to fix the actual problem and taking the game in an undesired direction for a quick cash in rather than do the work required for real long-term growth. I feel this does not bode well for my favorite Trek game.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.