ya bizz dont hide their numbers i see this this place shutting down before wow or blizz ever dose
No, WoW will go FTP long before it ever shuts down.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
STO is headed backwards. Not downwards, because the majority of players seem to suck up whatever new cruddy grind's given to them without a grumble or a peep, so any "doom" is far, far off. But backwards.
Whoah. Don't lose track of the article that touched off this current round of debate!
I think you are losing site of the overall numbers. Q1 was up 42% over last year. The fact that Q2 is going to be down a few percent does not really matter at this point. What matters are the numbers by the end of the year.
Net Income for 2013 was $89 million, up from 2012. We have yet to see where the Net Income for 2014 is, but Q1 was well up from last year.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I think you are losing site of the overall numbers. Q1 was up 42% over last year. The fact that Q2 is going to be down a few percent does not really matter at this point. What matters are the numbers by the end of the year.
Net Income for 2013 was $89 million, up from 2012. We have yet to see where the Net Income for 2014 is, but Q1 was well up from last year.
Come now, don't try to steer off point.
You said speculation based off being POed instead of actual numbers Blizzard publishes. There are the numbers. PC users playing PWE games down 18%.
But what it boils down to is I believe the powers that be are making bad decisions for this game. Are you saying you disagree?
Where's STO going? I haven't got a frakking clue since they forgot to make the left turn at Albuquerque.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
You said speculation based off being POed instead of actual numbers. There are the numbers. PC users playing PWE games down 18%.
But what it boils down to is I believe the powers that be are making bad decisions for this game. Are you saying you disagree?
It does not matter if PC gamers are down 18% if it has no major impact on Net Income. What matters is the Net Income, and so far all we know is that it was up in Q1 and we will get a Q2 value next month.
I will also point out that you probably have ZERO idea what "bad" decisions PW is making for its 14 games. The only PW game you probably play is STO. STO's numbers could be up while Champions Onlline, Jade Dynasty, and Fortuna are down - thus pulling the company's values down. The fact that you do not like the direction that STO is going does not mean that the direction is not profitable for them.
PWRD does not break down their financials per company because they make all the income - when you buy Zen it goes to PW, not Cryptic.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
WoW is putting itself out of business - having lost 1/3 of its players over the last few years.
Going from 12 million to 7 million is a big drop. BUT given the fact that everytime they add an expansion (which on a relative scale to their income, costs nothing and assures a +2 million or so bump for 3 or so months; I wouldn't say Blizzard is 'putting itself out of business" as it's still the 'Golden Calf/Holy Grail" of MMOs when investors pony up the development costs of a new MMO. There's not one MMO developer that wouldn't jump at the chance to hve WoW's level of income generation; and the fact it still has subscribers in the 7 million range after 10 years shows that Blizzard must be doing something right.
I say that because EA/Bioware thought they could just copy and paste what Blizzard did and add VO and cutscenes I'm talking SWToR which was a "WoW with a Star Wars skin" as EA/BioWare could make it; but after peaking with subscriptions briefly at 2 million or so, the subs PLUMMETED to around the 500K mark where EA pulled the F2P ripcord and tried to salvage any profitability from SWToR after spending a boatload of cash and 6+ years of dev time on it.
^^^
This is a prime example of an MMO developer 'putting itself out of business' especially when yhou look at how much they cut the SWToR Dev team after crowing how SWToR will keep the Dev team intact ad crank out content; before the bottom dropped out.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
It does not matter if PC gamers are down 18% if it has no major impact on Net Income. What matters is the Net Income, and so far all we know is that it was up in Q1 and we will get a Q2 value next month.
I will also point out that you probably have ZERO idea what "bad" decisions PW is making for its 14 games. The only PW game you probably play is STO. STO's numbers could be up while Champions Onlline, Jade Dynasty, and Fortuna are down - thus pulling the company's values down. The fact that you do not like the direction that STO is going does not mean that the direction is not profitable for them.
PWRD does not break down their financials per company because they make all the income - when you buy Zen it goes to PW, not Cryptic.
I have five toons in Champions Online. I have two In Neverwinter.
I CAN speak to the bad decisions made in the three PWE games that I do play. ANd I can tell you that losing 18% of your customers will definitely effect your bottom line. Every time.
Profitable can be short term and long term. What are poor decisions in my view can increase short term profits while hurting the other end.
And you didn't even answer my question.
Done with this topic, defend what you like and I'll keep calling shennaigans.
Done with this topic, defend what you like and I'll keep calling shennaigans.
I am not defending anything. I am simply saying Q1 profits were way up. Q2 profits will be released next month; but at the end of the day all that matters is Total 2014 Profits. Quarters can flux up and down, but all that matters is that you are in the black by year's end. And so far every Quarter is still profitable, even if the profits might be down from last year in Q2.
I will also point out that you only seem to play Cryptic games; thus not really getting any idea of what PW is doing with the rest of their line.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I am not defending anything. I am simply saying Q1 profits were way up. Q2 profits will be released next month; but at the end of the day all that matters is Total 2014 Profits. Quarters can flux up and down, but at the end of the day all that matters is that you are in the black by year's end. And so far every Quarter is still profitable, even if the profits might be down from last year in Q2.
I will also point out that you only seem to play Cryptic games; thus not really getting any idea of what PW is doing with the rest of their line.
All that matters is that you stay in the black? Businesses don't expect profits to grow every quarter every year and question it when they don't?
Wrong. NOT AT ALL how it works and I am not getting into what my profession is.
You jump to a lot of conclusions. Your profession must be leap-frog instructor.
PW wants their profits to stay up. So far they are up over 40% in Q1. Again, we will learn Q2's next month, but even they are down 25% the goal is to keep making a profit. So far they are doing that. They are not posting loss Quarters to this point.
PW invested in a new Mobile Division and a new Console Division. Clearly they are looking toward the future of their company.
We have NO idea how much of PW's Gross and Net profits are from STO. It could be 25%, it could be less then 1%. Stating decisions you do not like on STO, or other Cryptic games, as a reason for PW's problems is shortsighted in the extreme.
Just admit you do not like the game and go from there. You do not need to fabricate anything to get your point across.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
You jump to a lot of conclusions. Your profession must be leap-frog instructor.
PW wants their profits to stay up. So far they are up over 40% in Q1. Again, we will learn Q2's next month, but even they are down 25% the goal is to keep making a profit. So far they are doing that. They are not posting loss Quarters to this point.
PW invested in a new Mobile Division and a new Console Division. Clearly they are looking toward the future of their company.
We have NO idea how much of PW's Gross and Net profits are from STO. It could be 25%, it could be less then 1%. Stating decisions you do not like on STO, or other Cryptic games, as a reason for PW's problems is shortsighted in the extreme.
Just admit you do not like the game and go from there. You do not need to fabricate anything to get your point across.
Look at your first little line there. I recall someone who said they could make their point without personal attacks. Yep, I teach leap frog.
I am familiar with the practices of PWE after taking over CO and STO and the management of NWO from the beginning. Playing the games and chatting with the people that play them both in game and on the forums I CAN speculate within reason that poor decision making is causing them to lose players. Exact numbers, the one thing you are right about, I cannot say.
But I see the writing on the wall.
And YOU have no idea what PWE wants. I can tell you for certain that upper management and certainly investors in any company EXPECTS profits to GROW every quarter.
And I love this game, that is what makes me angry about what I perceive as bad decision making pulling it to sunset quicker than need be.
And I love this game, that is what makes me angry about what I perceive as bad decision making pulling it to sunset quicker than need be.
I think your Trek love has blinded you. Now you are in the "I want it my way or else" state of mind, and that never works out. The game is never going to be what any one person wants because we all want something different. One guy wants to sit on the bridge and talk to his Boffs all day long. Another guy wants to pew-pew things. A third guy just wants to beat the pants off of others in PvP and then gloat about it.
No one ever gets what they want. Around here everyone just gets a little bit of what they want. That has to be accepted or the angst will lead to madness.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
i think we are missing the real question, not whats going to happen to sto...how about whats going to happen to us. we should be given the title and accolade "the expendables" with how the player base is looked down upon. the game will remain...but as a cheap money grab then something indepth and memorable, the players will be come and go types, no one given a real chance. we are Red Shirts...i bet thats the inside joke the ARC people have of us now!
So to sum up the thread, those that don't like the direction of the game think it's dying. Those that aren't worried about the direction think it's doing ok.
Someone posts a link as proof the game is dying. But the link says 1st quarter revenues are up 42.5% over last year and that player average is down but still over 660,000 players per game.
No one knows how much of the profit is from any game, but that doesn't matter because of my 1st paragraph statement.
Does anyone from the last three or so pages remember what this thread is about?
Now that that is out of the way...
What I think is that without some new ______ STO is just going to slowly dwindle away. Some ideas to fill that blank:
I would like to see some of the episodes being done in a "multi-view" manner. That is to say, that you would have the events remain the same, but have two or more episode chains revolve around them, with each showing a different viewpoint.
Some obvious ones would be to use the different factions, Romulans are not likely to have the same view of the same thing as Klingons or Feds. But how about one where the difference is diplomat view versus military view versus corporate view.
It would also give us two (or more) times the content in the same amount of game time.
But I really don't see this level of writing coming soon (other than maybe in the Foundry?). And without this level of writing the story line corner of the game is going down.
But good writing is only one corner. Combat needs to get some sort of revamp, Fleets need a look at (and I don't mean another asset to grind), ...
Maybe an episode chain that allows for true first contact (with right and wrong answers in shades of gray, not black and white).
Same for the establishing of a new colony...
All just ideas, but I can't say that this is the way that STO will go, I can only hope.
The Tablet gaming market eclipses the PC gaming market - and the Console gaming market. Just because PC is doing better then Console does not mean it is doing better then Tablet/Smartphone games. That was my whole point.
As the Tablet is overtaking the PC sales people are relying on it and the Smartphones more and more and the PC less and less. They are not having a need to buy PCs; and since many households already have a Console the gaming requirements will be met by Console and Tablet. That is the current global trend - which is why so many gaming companies are jumping on the Tablet market. In a decade the PC will be a novelty for gaming.
I think your missing the point. Cutting edge games are developed now ON and FOR the PC. Games like Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous are just two examples, they simply are not or ever will be tablet games. I guess if your playing Angry Birds or something like that and your counting all the downloads of minor simpleton games like that, thats how your counting tablets overtaking PC's in sheer numbers, who knows where your getting your figues from.
The PC will dominate for years and years to come in gaming, I am talking state of the art type gaming. Those people wanting to play state of the art games won't be playing them on tablets anytime soon. THAT is simply a fact Admiral Jack.. Think of the power your graphics card eats to render high end graphics. Your tablet would have to be plugged into a wall socket the whole time just to not kill the battery, and if thats the case why the heck bother with a tablet at all? Might as well stay with a PC.
It's only 'logical' to conclude PC gaming is no where near fading away. Not in the least.
I think your missing the point. Cutting edge games are developed now ON and FOR the PC. Games like Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous are just two examples, they simply are not or ever will be tablet games. I guess if your playing Angry Birds or something like that and your counting all the downloads of minor simpleton games like that, thats how your counting tablets overtaking PC's in sheer numbers, who knows where your getting your figues from.
The PC will dominate for years and years to come in gaming, I am talking state of the art type gaming. Those people wanting to play state of the art games won't be playing them on tablets anytime soon. THAT is simply a fact Admiral Jack.. Think of the power your graphics card eats to render high end graphics. Your tablet would have to be plugged into a wall socket the whole time just to not kill the battery, and if thats the case why the heck bother with a tablet at all? Might as well stay with a PC.
It's only 'logical' to conclude PC gaming is no where near fading away. Not in the least.
I must be the only one that red his posts. He's not saying the mobile will replace the pc for extreme gaming. He said the mobile is already replacing the pc for day-to-day activities. The combination of mobile and console system completely eliminates the need for pcs. Console systems can already do games better then pcs. They have dedicated graphics and developers can build to specific benchmarks rather then needing to try and be useful for guy in cheap $300 laptop and guy in $10k super system.
In the future if you have a console system and a mobile system you won't need a pc. Everything you can do on a pc you can do on them. You can park your butt in front of your 60 inch widescreen and play sto on you console system and you can access the internet with it or your mobile. You won't need a pc. All the non gaming functions are going to be in your pad, glasses, watch, whatever.
Whats sad is alot of times these people rightly justify themselves. It sure is depressing. Why can't people just be optomistic for once. If I want to depress myself I can just look at my weeding photos.
In order to stay relevant, you need to innovate. STO struggles to release relevant content that is the same as the cookie cutter missions it had on release. they have a better shine now, but its still mostly the same.
if they can't deli ever on a basic level, eventually even the goodwill of the star trek community will run dry. especially as we get further and further away from having any television series to stand on.
Comments
Whoah. Don't lose track of the article that touched off this current round of debate!
http://seekingalpha.com/news/1759743-perfect-world-offers-in-line-guidance-pc-users-drop-q-q-in-q1
and i say this i still stick to my original post only now include what you just posted
system Lord Baal is dead
Net Income for 2013 was $89 million, up from 2012. We have yet to see where the Net Income for 2014 is, but Q1 was well up from last year.
Come now, don't try to steer off point.
You said speculation based off being POed instead of actual numbers Blizzard publishes. There are the numbers. PC users playing PWE games down 18%.
But what it boils down to is I believe the powers that be are making bad decisions for this game. Are you saying you disagree?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I will also point out that you probably have ZERO idea what "bad" decisions PW is making for its 14 games. The only PW game you probably play is STO. STO's numbers could be up while Champions Onlline, Jade Dynasty, and Fortuna are down - thus pulling the company's values down. The fact that you do not like the direction that STO is going does not mean that the direction is not profitable for them.
PWRD does not break down their financials per company because they make all the income - when you buy Zen it goes to PW, not Cryptic.
Going from 12 million to 7 million is a big drop. BUT given the fact that everytime they add an expansion (which on a relative scale to their income, costs nothing and assures a +2 million or so bump for 3 or so months; I wouldn't say Blizzard is 'putting itself out of business" as it's still the 'Golden Calf/Holy Grail" of MMOs when investors pony up the development costs of a new MMO. There's not one MMO developer that wouldn't jump at the chance to hve WoW's level of income generation; and the fact it still has subscribers in the 7 million range after 10 years shows that Blizzard must be doing something right.
I say that because EA/Bioware thought they could just copy and paste what Blizzard did and add VO and cutscenes I'm talking SWToR which was a "WoW with a Star Wars skin" as EA/BioWare could make it; but after peaking with subscriptions briefly at 2 million or so, the subs PLUMMETED to around the 500K mark where EA pulled the F2P ripcord and tried to salvage any profitability from SWToR after spending a boatload of cash and 6+ years of dev time on it.
^^^
This is a prime example of an MMO developer 'putting itself out of business' especially when yhou look at how much they cut the SWToR Dev team after crowing how SWToR will keep the Dev team intact ad crank out content; before the bottom dropped out.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I have five toons in Champions Online. I have two In Neverwinter.
I CAN speak to the bad decisions made in the three PWE games that I do play. ANd I can tell you that losing 18% of your customers will definitely effect your bottom line. Every time.
Profitable can be short term and long term. What are poor decisions in my view can increase short term profits while hurting the other end.
And you didn't even answer my question.
Done with this topic, defend what you like and I'll keep calling shennaigans.
I will also point out that you only seem to play Cryptic games; thus not really getting any idea of what PW is doing with the rest of their line.
imo he not missing very much to get a idea
system Lord Baal is dead
Wrong. NOT AT ALL how it works and I am not getting into what my profession is.
PW wants their profits to stay up. So far they are up over 40% in Q1. Again, we will learn Q2's next month, but even they are down 25% the goal is to keep making a profit. So far they are doing that. They are not posting loss Quarters to this point.
PW invested in a new Mobile Division and a new Console Division. Clearly they are looking toward the future of their company.
We have NO idea how much of PW's Gross and Net profits are from STO. It could be 25%, it could be less then 1%. Stating decisions you do not like on STO, or other Cryptic games, as a reason for PW's problems is shortsighted in the extreme.
Just admit you do not like the game and go from there. You do not need to fabricate anything to get your point across.
Look at your first little line there. I recall someone who said they could make their point without personal attacks. Yep, I teach leap frog.
I am familiar with the practices of PWE after taking over CO and STO and the management of NWO from the beginning. Playing the games and chatting with the people that play them both in game and on the forums I CAN speculate within reason that poor decision making is causing them to lose players. Exact numbers, the one thing you are right about, I cannot say.
But I see the writing on the wall.
And YOU have no idea what PWE wants. I can tell you for certain that upper management and certainly investors in any company EXPECTS profits to GROW every quarter.
And I love this game, that is what makes me angry about what I perceive as bad decision making pulling it to sunset quicker than need be.
No one ever gets what they want. Around here everyone just gets a little bit of what they want. That has to be accepted or the angst will lead to madness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30GD25un0XQ
Tiresome.
i can say the same for you and others
system Lord Baal is dead
Someone posts a link as proof the game is dying. But the link says 1st quarter revenues are up 42.5% over last year and that player average is down but still over 660,000 players per game.
No one knows how much of the profit is from any game, but that doesn't matter because of my 1st paragraph statement.
Is there anything else? :P
Now that that is out of the way...
What I think is that without some new ______ STO is just going to slowly dwindle away. Some ideas to fill that blank:
I would like to see some of the episodes being done in a "multi-view" manner. That is to say, that you would have the events remain the same, but have two or more episode chains revolve around them, with each showing a different viewpoint.
Some obvious ones would be to use the different factions, Romulans are not likely to have the same view of the same thing as Klingons or Feds. But how about one where the difference is diplomat view versus military view versus corporate view.
It would also give us two (or more) times the content in the same amount of game time.
But I really don't see this level of writing coming soon (other than maybe in the Foundry?). And without this level of writing the story line corner of the game is going down.
But good writing is only one corner. Combat needs to get some sort of revamp, Fleets need a look at (and I don't mean another asset to grind), ...
Maybe an episode chain that allows for true first contact (with right and wrong answers in shades of gray, not black and white).
Same for the establishing of a new colony...
All just ideas, but I can't say that this is the way that STO will go, I can only hope.
We seem to have crossed entries.
I was trying to say the same thing just used a lot more words.
I think your missing the point. Cutting edge games are developed now ON and FOR the PC. Games like Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous are just two examples, they simply are not or ever will be tablet games. I guess if your playing Angry Birds or something like that and your counting all the downloads of minor simpleton games like that, thats how your counting tablets overtaking PC's in sheer numbers, who knows where your getting your figues from.
The PC will dominate for years and years to come in gaming, I am talking state of the art type gaming. Those people wanting to play state of the art games won't be playing them on tablets anytime soon. THAT is simply a fact Admiral Jack.. Think of the power your graphics card eats to render high end graphics. Your tablet would have to be plugged into a wall socket the whole time just to not kill the battery, and if thats the case why the heck bother with a tablet at all? Might as well stay with a PC.
It's only 'logical' to conclude PC gaming is no where near fading away. Not in the least.
In the future if you have a console system and a mobile system you won't need a pc. Everything you can do on a pc you can do on them. You can park your butt in front of your 60 inch widescreen and play sto on you console system and you can access the internet with it or your mobile. You won't need a pc. All the non gaming functions are going to be in your pad, glasses, watch, whatever.
Ever heard of "Crabs in a bucket"?
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10052253
Why are you not rejoicing?
if they can't deli ever on a basic level, eventually even the goodwill of the star trek community will run dry. especially as we get further and further away from having any television series to stand on.