I think the problem was more with the voice overs, they had to fit for every race.
This. It is not bad for the companions since they hardly speak except for in their companion quests and a few other quests, but every quest as a main character has at least a couple of dialog by your character.
Although it shouldn't be hard for Wookies since they have no coherent dialog. Just record a few Wookie words and just randomize them and you got Wookie dialog. Same thing with lots of other races. Incoherent babble might be a reason why they don't do those races. Might be fun for a bit, but it would get kind of old like Zombie speak in Saints Row.
SWTOR is better for story, but the mechanics of combat are not that interesting, even compared to STO (here you can at least pretend to aim and things like that). The companions are smarter than your entire bridge crew, and easier to control. The space combat with your personal ship is on rails, the new PvP fighter combat is actually fun but gets boring quickly (not enough variety). The profession system is interesting. The F2P model makes the game not worth considering if you don't want to fork out for a subscription. It is, of course, Star Wars.
STO has a lot more personal customization (both ship and character), you can selectively repeat an interesting story arc, the space combat has more variety of both playstyle and things to do, ground combat feels more tactical. The F2P model makes the game worth investing in outside of a subscription.
This. It is not bad for the companions since they hardly speak except for in their companion quests and a few other quests, but every quest as a main character has at least a couple of dialog by your character.
Although it shouldn't be hard for Wookies since they have no coherent dialog. Just record a few Wookie words and just randomize them and you got Wookie dialog. Same thing with lots of other races. Incoherent babble might be a reason why they don't do those races. Might be fun for a bit, but it would get kind of old like Zombie speak in Saints Row.
The companions already had lots of communication but that was always tied to that one character. Every dialog they do exists for them only.
Player characters? The way it is EVERY line of dialog had to be done 4 times for every class.
It was done twice for females and twice for males (in case 2 ppl of the same class and gender are in a team) and that again for all 8? Classes.
It would have been additional 2-4 voice overs for every other alien for the same reason.
Now I hope no one get's to mad in this topic but... just some things I reserched to help people find the game that's right for them. Now STO is developing much faster and better than SWTOR, it has better character customization, and waaay better space battles. SWTOR has been developing for what, six or seven years? And still has been quickly passed up by STO.
are you sure you done some research? from whats written in that quote of yours, it reads like you have not done any, or if you have its got such a heavy bias to it there is really no point making such a thread.
swtor has some better features then sto, sto has other features better then swtor. you can try compare but swtor is primarily based on ground, it was meant to be the sci-fi version of wow when it first came out... since it failed at that 6 months in and looking at what PWE did with sto, eaware saw the writing on the wall, go f2p or crawl under the bed. where as sto is clearly based around space, everyone wants to be a captain of their own starship, but recently in roads into ground content has been coming but its a long way off what eaware has done with swtor.
you have multiple boffs, apart from tovan khev who comes with and gives you details and most of the time rams your own captains job down your own throat, thats the only companion that remotely has any significant interaction to the player during level up unfortunately (as in your stuck with him and there isnt any others to fill the roles elsewhere, getting flores and the ever anonymous k'gan to have a better role)
you look at swtor and you have multiple companions, some interaction changes with gender, for the most part you can bring any of them along and they all provide some details to help out (probable exceptions are hk and treek), some class player characters and their companions are critical to the storyline like the trooper storyline, the gauntlet superweapon and the imperial general on corellia where all your companions written into the mission come with.
for the most part the ability to be as free as possible? swtor has that one more, because on sto as soon as you hit level 50, you automatically need rep gear to get anything significant from the experience (contrary to others who say stock gear is fine) and besides rep gear tripping up on ec and dilithium is a common thing. on swtor you can get gear upto a point, head to oricon, get better stuff and for the most part a lot of the content you have a choice on, including the tougher stuff and get upgrades from that if you wanted. the only grinds you come upto are fps and ops beyond that there isnt this time gated stuff or rep grinds to worry about.
some of the recent stuff on swtor however like the voice overs have been lower quality then usual. you notice it immediately on the bounty hunter male voice.however its a minor side point, oricon reminds me so much of the nostalgia of champions before f2p and venturing into the qlipthothic realm and dealing with the shadow destroyer.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
He's also a DJ, IIRC. I saw his profile once while surfing Google+ to see if it would be useful for anything.
Wait you were stalking me on google +??
:eek:
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
I wont do a side by side comparison but generally speaking i tried TOR and wanted to love it but it bored me to death. It has some nice features and the generally idea is sound but in reality i get no enjoyment out of it. Their F2P matrix is inferior to STO's as well.
I find STO much more fun and if STO had had the dev team and development time and funds that the TOR team had to play with then it would blow it out of the water. Not every game is made equal and the production value is vastly different. So I think TOR has wasted its almost unlimited potential and STO was not given the opportunity early on to reach its.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Aladeen Points
STO- It has a better customization, doesn't take that long to load up and you can minimize it, newer content has beautiful backgrounds, better events, and of course its Star Trek.
SWTOR- The game has eight different storylines from levels 1 to 50. Whenever, SWTOR adds content, it adds story to the content without any type of grinding. All of SWTOR's story does not take place in a year, it takes place over three years. Their version of the lockbox is better implemented no added gear or anything that gives you special awesome powers. Pet tabs, variety of pets, costumes, and fun stuff (they don't force people to dance), The Devs like to lay out a plan and talk to the playerbase beyond we got an expansion coming then crickets.
Aladeen Points
STO- Story is an . after thought, the missions are long and time consuming, no real reason to have alts outside the three major races. Content is pushed out half-done. Small social areas. Players love to explore. The continual addition of new powers (mostly by payment). Blatantly ignoring areas of the playerbase like PVP
SWTOR- Weird bugs like the cartel market collections bug, terrible initial f2p (once you unlock majority of the payblocks, f2p is not too bad), mandatory server and sometimes character name changes, horrible drop rates for the rare items from the bosses (not as bad as pre-rep omega gear), absurdly slow leveling (both types), and during the leveling process you are sent to lower level planets if you want to see the whole story.
I enjoy both games, though i tend to stick more with STO.
Nah. I was just bored out of my skull during the season 8.5 launch patch and decided to see if the thing was useful for anything. I typed in the first name I could think of.
On a related note, Google+ is like Facebook, only it doesn't work.
:I agree.I happen to like them both equally, and feel what one game lacks, the other one makes up for. I like STO space combat better, but I like SWTOR ground combat better.
Perfectly said!!! I was going to continue, but I had to leave quit suddenly...
SWTOR also has one of the worst F2P models I've seen. I kind of want to play it for the story and some of the combat actually looks decent, but that F2P model...blergh. That really keeps me from playing it.
I got to level 21, its a bad f2p. No bank, no sending mail, you can't even use very rare items...
I got to level 21, its a bad f2p. No bank, no sending mail, you can't even use very rare items...
youve been pampered too much by pwes f2p model. swtors model is just fine and it should have restrictions like that on purpose, frankly the same should apply on sto, but thats in an ideal world.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
youve been pampered too much by pwes f2p model. swtors model is just fine and it should have restrictions like that on purpose, frankly the same should apply on sto, but thats in an ideal world.
Im now playing STO & Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Phantoms - EU, not swtor so they will never get any money from me...
How wold restricting the gameplay to the point that Silver players would never enjoy the thing at all (much less really want to give them money, unless the player involved were a fanboy of the first water) be "an ideal world"??
Yeah if SWtOR wants me to come back, their f2p model seriously needs to change. I mean FFS you have to pay to post on their forums!
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
youve been pampered too much by pwes f2p model. swtors model is just fine and it should have restrictions like that on purpose, frankly the same should apply on sto, but thats in an ideal world.
Most queued events are already at a point where maps won't open anymore due to players not queuing up anymore. At the time of this post, 3/4 of the queued events have 0 players plaing them and only about a dozen people participating in PvP queues. Take away a chunk of the F2P crowd by limiting them like SWTOR is doing and soon you'll be playing by yourself, staring at an empty auction house and an empty dilithium exchange as well...
How wold restricting the gameplay to the point that Silver players would never enjoy the thing at all (much less really want to give them money, unless the player involved were a fanboy of the first water) be "an ideal world"??
by the very idea free 2 pay means you can play for free, but the restrictions are open to the makers. so in this and that it survived after the first year and grew means its a success contrary to everyone else stating its a failure and since enough players play the game and have chipped in, it adds weight. i can tell you that if you that you can play silver with the restrictions, i have done it and you can made level 50 pretty easy albeit a bit longer meaning your opinion doesnt mean anything unless you played some serious time at it instead of this face value discussion, again in an ideal world of course.
not a fanboy, but swtor is still here isnt it? and i would state the same about sto on the swtor forum, so take it or leave it alone.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I think the SWTOR/Bioware story system is pretty great, not just because there are so many storylines but because you are allowed to make choices. Unfortunately it also leads to the uncustomizable crew and sociopathic morality system, so it might be a wash. The smooth instancing is also really nice, although that will never be possible in STO. I would like STO to have more multiplayer maps, though. Every planet, in fact (and maybe a lot of the stars, too).
The poorly thought out f2p model is the real killer, as many have pointed out. For me, the unremovable currency cap was probably the most frustrating part. Of course, the fact that, at its best, the entire space aspect of the game has all of the sophistication of WoW's Deeprun Tram doesn't help.
Maybe it comes down to a difference in the source material, but if I'm playing a space game, I want a starship of my own, not a fancy-looking door automatically generated by my class choice.
When it comes to STO vs SWTOR, I judge them a bit differently. Namely, SWTOR belongs to one of the big publishers, as opposed to Cryptic who is/was small and independant.
STO-
Fanservice: Cryptic has this in spades. One of the major draws to STO is that it really is Star Trek Online, not TNG Online or TOS Online. But they borrow from every movie and every series and try their best to mix it up in a way that there's something for everyone, while at the same time trying to make things appear fluid.
This doesn't always work out that well, but the fact they put an effort into it (by saying outdated ships and whatnot are just replicas using modern-day materials, and other explanations), really makes me respect Cryptic.
It's also pretty evident many of the devs of STO are fans of Star Trek. There are so many references (some would even call them obscure) to the little things in the franchise that only really attentive fans would 'get'.
Art: Whether it's the ship artists, the environmental art team, or the character art team -- STO just plain rocks when it comes to trying to make a very aesthetically pleasing Star Trek universe. The attention to detail on some of the ship models are awesome, but they aren't completely flawless (like the Galaxy-X phaser lance placement).
A Better f2p Model: This is pretty obvious. If Cryptic is able to turn a profit on STO with the current system, that makes them really awesome. The constant changes to things like the rep system and now event ship discounts means they're giving more options and trying to make things easier on players as they are able.
SWTOR-
Mismanagement from Day 1: George Lucas plays video games. His kids play video games. He likes using LucasArts to create video games. Star Wars has had several very successful video games and very few of them have been failures.
That being said, George Lucas is extremely ignorant to how the video game industry works. Much like the prequel trilogy, he shoves his ownership of the IP onto the shoulders of others and makes them 'create magic'. They do so because it's Star Wars -- and because work on Star Wars is more or less guaranteed success.
SOE screwed things up with SWG. They remain a warning signal of what not to do with an MMO. But BioWare is something else entirely. They aren't MMO people. That wasn't their hallmark. That wasn't their claim to fame. Why would you get a company who is primarily known for making simply awesome story-based games to create an MMO?
Because they don't know how to make an MMO as well as some other studios do. And the development of SWTOR showed this, by trying to play to their strengths as a company. This did not work out perfectly since their weaknesses in the MMO market were extremely prevalent.
George Lucas saw SWG as not living up to his expectations and he wanted to double-down on another MMO because he was so convinced a Star Wars MMO could 'beat' a particular fantasy-based MMO set in Azeroth.
He knew the KOTOR games were popular, so he logically thought giving a bunch of money to BioWare would somehow create the perfect Star Wars MMO. But he failed at that, like so much else due to his short-sightedness and being out-of-touch with reality.
You have the BioWare developers blowing most of their budget on voice actors. These are good voice actors, don't get me wrong. But these actors can't really be gotten back for subsequent expansions if they aren't available (I think they chain Jennifer Hale to her desk). As a result, with new expansions and what have you, they end up having to splice and chop-up and recycle the lines we've already seen for the actors who they can't get back. This comes off as extremely cheap and close to Ed Wood levels of editing 'genius'. This was another major mistake of putting their money on voice acting.
When I saw they were going to have voice acting for everything -- I knew something was immediately wrong with TOR. No company has done that before. BioWare knew that and thought that because it was never done before, that it was a surefire way to success. They were wrong. Money for voice acting means less money for actual game development and employee labor for game development.
Space Combat: They also shot themselves in the foot when they tried to justify their rail-based space combat as, "Well, nobody really cares about the space combat in Star Wars, all the important parts of the movies took place on the ground."
Regardless of whether or not they may be correct -- it was obvious to me it was a cop-out for a poorly thought-out space portion of the game. And as someone who grew up on games like TIE Fighter, X-Wing, Rogue Squadron, Rebellion, and Empire at War... unless you have a fantastic ground-based game in mind like Dark Forces, Jedi Knight/Academy, or the Force Unleashed... you simply can't not have a very fleshed out space combat portion, and expect TOR to float on its own merits on the ground, particularly if the budget for the game is as big as it is and it's being pitched as another 'WoW Killer'.
The Story Sucks: This is harder for me to justify, because while BioWare does make really awesome story-based RPGs... I really felt that TOR was lacking. Part of the epic 'story' of Star Wars is a classic case of good vs. evil, the Sith Empire and Republic having an uneasy cease-fire comes off as extremely ham-fisted.
The Sith Empire remind me more of corrupt businessmen than the Jedi-killing nihilists I know from the franchise. In this classic tale of good vs. evil, TOR falls flat on its face with, "Meh, it's really a stalemate.", while I understand this might be necessary so players can be both good and evil -- when it comes to Star Wars, it kills a little more magic of the epic saga for me when a 'stalemate' between good and evil is acceptable.
BioWare did the best they could, and I guess in some respects they had a really tall order handed to them, but I expected more out of a Star Wars story.
It certainly didn't help the game's setting takes place a few thousand years before the movies, so much of the 'iconic' things we know from the movies are just plain absent in the game, even though the artists have tried hard to be 'inspired' by said iconic things -- but to me they come off as more of a cheap rip-off than being 'inspired by'.
Fans like iconic ships, costumes, weapons, etc., STO has delivered on this because the game setting is not on one extreme of the timeline.
Combat Sucks: Lightsabers feel more like billy clubs you beat someone in the head with. I expect a lightsaber in a Star Wars game to feel more like a lightsaber. Swords and shields work great in fantasy games, where you have to keep chopping away -- but the lightsaber is a classic part of pop culture and when it behaves... not like a lightsaber in TOR? It makes it a little less special to me.
End Result:
STO has heart, even if it doesn't have the money or development time.
SWTOR has no heart because EA has no heart. When this game is created by one of the two majorly evil companies in the video game industry (the other being SOE), it is not unexpected that they deliver questionable ethics. They have the money -- but they blew the money on voice acting, which does not make for a good game.
The management refused to budge to make the game f2p for the longest time, to the point they had to clear house a little since the game's finances were struggling in this oversaturated and cutthroat MMO market. Their delay in allowing the game to go f2p (which again is laughable), is more evidence that EA is not only evil, but also out-of-touch with the market trends and what customers want.
The Star Wars name alone might keep it afloat, but it has been horribly mismanaged in ways Cryptic could only dream of mismanaging.
STO might not be perfect, but the people at Cryptic treat people like humans more often than not. They don't come across as evil overlords to me, they come across as fellow gamers and professionals who want to make an awesome Star Trek game -- and though mistakes might have been made, they pale in comparison to the truly evil and ethically corrupt men and women at EA.
Gameplay - Close because STO can be addictive at times but I like TOR better. TOR is less gimmicky, no crazy effects around the ship or character. STO has crazy abilities and equipment options, like orbital strike and MACO armor. I don't recall Picard wearing Tron energy armor and chunking photon grenades. TOR is more about lightsabers and blasters and other things that were actually used in SW. Most abilities in TOR are well conceived and true to the IP. I have no idea where they came up with some of the stuff that exists in STO, for better or worse.
Presentation - Story-wise, I like TOR better, all the classes/races/factions wrap up into one story. The story in STO is all over the place and they graft and prune as they see fit. I have a hard time forgiving them for ruining the original tutorial and STFs storyline. TOR also has much better cutscenes, STO's seem stiff and lifeless. Graphically, I like STO better. I never liked the cartoonish look of LucasArts games. STO's graphics have come a long ways and look very crisp and professional although they are not perfect. Elements like scale when looking at ship interiors and ships to starbases hold STO back. Sound is also better in TOR with real lightsaber and blaster sounds, iconic sounds. In STO phasers and torpedoes don't sound right when compared to the shows/movies. Musically, I like STO's music but TOR is good too and they take the advantage in that they make use to the IPs iconic score. As far as layout and overall look I think they are pretty equal.
Enjoyment - STO has a better F2P model if that is important to you, but I am a lifer here and I pay in TOR as well. I personally think F2P brought in the 'dregs' to the STO player base. The whole lockbox/lobi concept may line Cryptic's pocket more to their liking but the player ultimately is the one that is punished. To me making a player pay means that they are less likely to grief queues and social zones and more likely to actually play the game, which is more enjoyable for other players as well. Quality of life to me is a bit better in TOR as well. In STO I live in fear of what will be nerfed next.
Other - Lastability. Both IPs are huge, the biggest in SciFi. TOR is going to continue to draw SW fans and they have a new movie coming out soon. That will no doubt boost their population. The fact that LucasArts is involved with TOR is a godsend and it means there is little horse play with the IP and what they release. STO has another ST movie to look forward to as well but those movies have disenfranchised the fan base much like STO has. The more STO ignores the established canon of the IP, the more of a turn off it will be to ST fans who are looking to play a true ST game. STO has taken too many elements and liberties from other Sci-Fi IPs and not enough from Star Trek.
Space Combat: They also shot themselves in the foot when they tried to justify their rail-based space combat as, "Well, nobody really cares about the space combat in Star Wars, all the important parts of the movies took place on the ground."
Regardless of whether or not they may be correct -- it was obvious to me it was a cop-out for a poorly thought-out space portion of the game. And as someone who grew up on games like TIE Fighter, X-Wing, Rogue Squadron, Rebellion, and Empire at War... unless you have a fantastic ground-based game in mind like Dark Forces, Jedi Knight/Academy, or the Force Unleashed... you simply can't not have a very fleshed out space combat portion, and expect TOR to float on its own merits on the ground, particularly if the budget for the game is as big as it is and it's being pitched as another 'WoW Killer'.
*snip*
STO might not be perfect, but the people at Cryptic treat people like humans more often than not. They don't come across as evil overlords to me, they come across as fellow gamers and professionals who want to make an awesome Star Trek game -- and though mistakes might have been made, they pale in comparison to the truly evil and ethically corrupt men and women at EA.
The state of the space combat game (if you want to even call it that) when SWTOR launched was terrible. Rail shooter, no freedom of flight, etc. This was a terrible shame since some of the best space shooters in the history of the genre were Star Wars games.
When SOE launched SWG in 2003, and it became apparent it had no space combat, people were ripping it apart for that alone. It had a lot of other issues, but I still remember the oftenly repeated complaint from reviewers: "How do you have a Star Wars game without space combat?" For an MMORPG, people wanted to fly X-Wings, TIE Fighters, etc. SOE rectified that within 6-8 months of release, but man... SWG got lambasted hard.
Then we had SWTOR. It's like BioWare took the warning to heart, but what they did was a simple "check in the box."
"Oh yeah, we got space combat!"
Well, yes, they did. But I was hoping for something more.
Like I said in an earlier post, SWG had serious issues. But we had subscribers that only logged in to play the "Jump to Lightspeed" / Space content of SWG and not do anything for ground except crafting replacement starcraft parts, consumeables, and new ships. Or maybe run around to turn in a mission. But the space combat struck a very wonderful balance in upgradable gear, equipment decay, awesome crafting, and player skill... at the MMORPG level of depth one expected. It was a great space expansion, one I wish SOE put more effort in enlarging it, but they never did.
Then we had SWTOR's space game... My God... For a game that released at the end of 2011 to get totally outclassed by SWG's space game from 2004, that's bad.
As for STO and it's release, it really needed at least 1 more year of development.
I like both, tbh. SWTOR is primarly ground-based whereas STO is space-based. I'd like to see MUCH more gorund-based content added.... and ground vehicles!
STO has heart, even if it doesn't have the money or development time.
SWTOR has no heart because EA has no heart. When this game is created by one of the two majorly evil companies in the video game industry (the other being SOE), it is not unexpected that they deliver questionable ethics. They have the money -- but they blew the money on voice acting, which does not make for a good game.
The management refused to budge to make the game f2p for the longest time, to the point they had to clear house a little since the game's finances were struggling in this oversaturated and cutthroat MMO market. Their delay in allowing the game to go f2p (which again is laughable), is more evidence that EA is not only evil, but also out-of-touch with the market trends and what customers want.
The Star Wars name alone might keep it afloat, but it has been horribly mismanaged in ways Cryptic could only dream of mismanaging.
STO might not be perfect, but the people at Cryptic treat people like humans more often than not. They don't come across as evil overlords to me, they come across as fellow gamers and professionals who want to make an awesome Star Trek game -- and though mistakes might have been made, they pale in comparison to the truly evil and ethically corrupt men and women at EA.
I agree entirely.
For all the whining and ranting about Cryptic, I have to say that when I've actually SEEN the devs talking, they come across as complete nerds, like me.
I like that. I trust my fellow nerds. I believe that they genuinely want to make a truly great game. For all that STO can feel unpolished, it's already pretty damn good.
And, of course, SWTOR has the worst F2P model EVER.
From what I understand SW:ToR has surpassed WoW in number of player accounts, they claim to have over 10 million casual players now whereas WoW has about 7.8 million.
Also, I'm changing my review a bit from what I posted above. I now give graphics to SW:ToR. The 2.8 patch they just released came with new shaders and the game looks very, very polished. There is now no comparison between the 2 games.
From what I understand SW:ToR has surpassed WoW in number of player accounts, they claim to have over 10 million casual players now whereas WoW has about 7.8 million.
Also, I'm changing my review a bit from what I posted above. I now give graphics to SW:ToR. The 2.8 patch they just released came with new shaders and the game looks very, very polished. There is now no comparison between the 2 games.
tor is good but not that good love to see the link to this tho
tor is good but not that good love to see the link to this tho
The statement was made by Jeff Hickman, EP of Live Services of BioWare, during last fall's Community Cantina Tour at EA San Francisco. It has also been repeated by their Community Manager Eric Musco. Take a look at post #33 at this link here if you are able to. Here is another link. Here is audio from the event, at about the 3:20 mark is where he says it. Searching Google or YouTube also yields many fan sites, blogs, or podcasts that talk about the statement.
I've been playing STO for a long time now, probably since 2010. I stopped getting vet rewards a while ago because I let my subscription lapse and found out that this game is just as fun with F2P as without.
I played SWTOR from its release for about a year with a paid sub. Some of the stories were great, and the PVP (at least before level 50 with all the dull grinding) was fun as well. After I had gone through the stories worth going through though, paying fifteen bucks a month to do boring endgame TRIBBLE wasn't worth it.
I have never gotten mad at Star Trek Online. SWTOR, however, is irritating in how obviously greedy the developers are. They claimed not to want to do holiday events. That changed when they realized they could sell stuff in their overpriced micro-transaction store. That kind of hypocrisy gets me mad and makes me want to go back to good old dependable STO. At least here I'll always have a guaranteed fun experience from the latest FREE episode or FREE foundry mission.
Comments
This. It is not bad for the companions since they hardly speak except for in their companion quests and a few other quests, but every quest as a main character has at least a couple of dialog by your character.
Although it shouldn't be hard for Wookies since they have no coherent dialog. Just record a few Wookie words and just randomize them and you got Wookie dialog. Same thing with lots of other races. Incoherent babble might be a reason why they don't do those races. Might be fun for a bit, but it would get kind of old like Zombie speak in Saints Row.
STO has a lot more personal customization (both ship and character), you can selectively repeat an interesting story arc, the space combat has more variety of both playstyle and things to do, ground combat feels more tactical. The F2P model makes the game worth investing in outside of a subscription.
The companions already had lots of communication but that was always tied to that one character. Every dialog they do exists for them only.
Player characters? The way it is EVERY line of dialog had to be done 4 times for every class.
It was done twice for females and twice for males (in case 2 ppl of the same class and gender are in a team) and that again for all 8? Classes.
It would have been additional 2-4 voice overs for every other alien for the same reason.
are you sure you done some research? from whats written in that quote of yours, it reads like you have not done any, or if you have its got such a heavy bias to it there is really no point making such a thread.
swtor has some better features then sto, sto has other features better then swtor. you can try compare but swtor is primarily based on ground, it was meant to be the sci-fi version of wow when it first came out... since it failed at that 6 months in and looking at what PWE did with sto, eaware saw the writing on the wall, go f2p or crawl under the bed. where as sto is clearly based around space, everyone wants to be a captain of their own starship, but recently in roads into ground content has been coming but its a long way off what eaware has done with swtor.
you have multiple boffs, apart from tovan khev who comes with and gives you details and most of the time rams your own captains job down your own throat, thats the only companion that remotely has any significant interaction to the player during level up unfortunately (as in your stuck with him and there isnt any others to fill the roles elsewhere, getting flores and the ever anonymous k'gan to have a better role)
you look at swtor and you have multiple companions, some interaction changes with gender, for the most part you can bring any of them along and they all provide some details to help out (probable exceptions are hk and treek), some class player characters and their companions are critical to the storyline like the trooper storyline, the gauntlet superweapon and the imperial general on corellia where all your companions written into the mission come with.
for the most part the ability to be as free as possible? swtor has that one more, because on sto as soon as you hit level 50, you automatically need rep gear to get anything significant from the experience (contrary to others who say stock gear is fine) and besides rep gear tripping up on ec and dilithium is a common thing. on swtor you can get gear upto a point, head to oricon, get better stuff and for the most part a lot of the content you have a choice on, including the tougher stuff and get upgrades from that if you wanted. the only grinds you come upto are fps and ops beyond that there isnt this time gated stuff or rep grinds to worry about.
some of the recent stuff on swtor however like the voice overs have been lower quality then usual. you notice it immediately on the bounty hunter male voice.however its a minor side point, oricon reminds me so much of the nostalgia of champions before f2p and venturing into the qlipthothic realm and dealing with the shadow destroyer.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Wait you were stalking me on google +??
:eek:
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
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I find STO much more fun and if STO had had the dev team and development time and funds that the TOR team had to play with then it would blow it out of the water. Not every game is made equal and the production value is vastly different. So I think TOR has wasted its almost unlimited potential and STO was not given the opportunity early on to reach its.
That's worffan101 he does that.
I wonder if that's his real name
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
It is pretty disturbing that people are using google+
Aladeen Points
STO- It has a better customization, doesn't take that long to load up and you can minimize it, newer content has beautiful backgrounds, better events, and of course its Star Trek.
SWTOR- The game has eight different storylines from levels 1 to 50. Whenever, SWTOR adds content, it adds story to the content without any type of grinding. All of SWTOR's story does not take place in a year, it takes place over three years. Their version of the lockbox is better implemented no added gear or anything that gives you special awesome powers. Pet tabs, variety of pets, costumes, and fun stuff (they don't force people to dance), The Devs like to lay out a plan and talk to the playerbase beyond we got an expansion coming then crickets.
Aladeen Points
STO- Story is an . after thought, the missions are long and time consuming, no real reason to have alts outside the three major races. Content is pushed out half-done. Small social areas. Players love to explore. The continual addition of new powers (mostly by payment). Blatantly ignoring areas of the playerbase like PVP
SWTOR- Weird bugs like the cartel market collections bug, terrible initial f2p (once you unlock majority of the payblocks, f2p is not too bad), mandatory server and sometimes character name changes, horrible drop rates for the rare items from the bosses (not as bad as pre-rep omega gear), absurdly slow leveling (both types), and during the leveling process you are sent to lower level planets if you want to see the whole story.
I enjoy both games, though i tend to stick more with STO.
Nah. I was just bored out of my skull during the season 8.5 launch patch and decided to see if the thing was useful for anything. I typed in the first name I could think of.
On a related note, Google+ is like Facebook, only it doesn't work.
Perfectly said!!! I was going to continue, but I had to leave quit suddenly...
I got to level 21, its a bad f2p. No bank, no sending mail, you can't even use very rare items...
youve been pampered too much by pwes f2p model. swtors model is just fine and it should have restrictions like that on purpose, frankly the same should apply on sto, but thats in an ideal world.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Im now playing STO & Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Phantoms - EU, not swtor so they will never get any money from me...
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Most queued events are already at a point where maps won't open anymore due to players not queuing up anymore. At the time of this post, 3/4 of the queued events have 0 players plaing them and only about a dozen people participating in PvP queues. Take away a chunk of the F2P crowd by limiting them like SWTOR is doing and soon you'll be playing by yourself, staring at an empty auction house and an empty dilithium exchange as well...
by the very idea free 2 pay means you can play for free, but the restrictions are open to the makers. so in this and that it survived after the first year and grew means its a success contrary to everyone else stating its a failure and since enough players play the game and have chipped in, it adds weight. i can tell you that if you that you can play silver with the restrictions, i have done it and you can made level 50 pretty easy albeit a bit longer meaning your opinion doesnt mean anything unless you played some serious time at it instead of this face value discussion, again in an ideal world of course.
not a fanboy, but swtor is still here isnt it? and i would state the same about sto on the swtor forum, so take it or leave it alone.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The poorly thought out f2p model is the real killer, as many have pointed out. For me, the unremovable currency cap was probably the most frustrating part. Of course, the fact that, at its best, the entire space aspect of the game has all of the sophistication of WoW's Deeprun Tram doesn't help.
Maybe it comes down to a difference in the source material, but if I'm playing a space game, I want a starship of my own, not a fancy-looking door automatically generated by my class choice.
STO-
Fanservice: Cryptic has this in spades. One of the major draws to STO is that it really is Star Trek Online, not TNG Online or TOS Online. But they borrow from every movie and every series and try their best to mix it up in a way that there's something for everyone, while at the same time trying to make things appear fluid.
This doesn't always work out that well, but the fact they put an effort into it (by saying outdated ships and whatnot are just replicas using modern-day materials, and other explanations), really makes me respect Cryptic.
It's also pretty evident many of the devs of STO are fans of Star Trek. There are so many references (some would even call them obscure) to the little things in the franchise that only really attentive fans would 'get'.
Art: Whether it's the ship artists, the environmental art team, or the character art team -- STO just plain rocks when it comes to trying to make a very aesthetically pleasing Star Trek universe. The attention to detail on some of the ship models are awesome, but they aren't completely flawless (like the Galaxy-X phaser lance placement).
A Better f2p Model: This is pretty obvious. If Cryptic is able to turn a profit on STO with the current system, that makes them really awesome. The constant changes to things like the rep system and now event ship discounts means they're giving more options and trying to make things easier on players as they are able.
SWTOR-
Mismanagement from Day 1: George Lucas plays video games. His kids play video games. He likes using LucasArts to create video games. Star Wars has had several very successful video games and very few of them have been failures.
That being said, George Lucas is extremely ignorant to how the video game industry works. Much like the prequel trilogy, he shoves his ownership of the IP onto the shoulders of others and makes them 'create magic'. They do so because it's Star Wars -- and because work on Star Wars is more or less guaranteed success.
SOE screwed things up with SWG. They remain a warning signal of what not to do with an MMO. But BioWare is something else entirely. They aren't MMO people. That wasn't their hallmark. That wasn't their claim to fame. Why would you get a company who is primarily known for making simply awesome story-based games to create an MMO?
Because they don't know how to make an MMO as well as some other studios do. And the development of SWTOR showed this, by trying to play to their strengths as a company. This did not work out perfectly since their weaknesses in the MMO market were extremely prevalent.
George Lucas saw SWG as not living up to his expectations and he wanted to double-down on another MMO because he was so convinced a Star Wars MMO could 'beat' a particular fantasy-based MMO set in Azeroth.
He knew the KOTOR games were popular, so he logically thought giving a bunch of money to BioWare would somehow create the perfect Star Wars MMO. But he failed at that, like so much else due to his short-sightedness and being out-of-touch with reality.
You have the BioWare developers blowing most of their budget on voice actors. These are good voice actors, don't get me wrong. But these actors can't really be gotten back for subsequent expansions if they aren't available (I think they chain Jennifer Hale to her desk). As a result, with new expansions and what have you, they end up having to splice and chop-up and recycle the lines we've already seen for the actors who they can't get back. This comes off as extremely cheap and close to Ed Wood levels of editing 'genius'. This was another major mistake of putting their money on voice acting.
When I saw they were going to have voice acting for everything -- I knew something was immediately wrong with TOR. No company has done that before. BioWare knew that and thought that because it was never done before, that it was a surefire way to success. They were wrong. Money for voice acting means less money for actual game development and employee labor for game development.
Space Combat: They also shot themselves in the foot when they tried to justify their rail-based space combat as, "Well, nobody really cares about the space combat in Star Wars, all the important parts of the movies took place on the ground."
Regardless of whether or not they may be correct -- it was obvious to me it was a cop-out for a poorly thought-out space portion of the game. And as someone who grew up on games like TIE Fighter, X-Wing, Rogue Squadron, Rebellion, and Empire at War... unless you have a fantastic ground-based game in mind like Dark Forces, Jedi Knight/Academy, or the Force Unleashed... you simply can't not have a very fleshed out space combat portion, and expect TOR to float on its own merits on the ground, particularly if the budget for the game is as big as it is and it's being pitched as another 'WoW Killer'.
The Story Sucks: This is harder for me to justify, because while BioWare does make really awesome story-based RPGs... I really felt that TOR was lacking. Part of the epic 'story' of Star Wars is a classic case of good vs. evil, the Sith Empire and Republic having an uneasy cease-fire comes off as extremely ham-fisted.
The Sith Empire remind me more of corrupt businessmen than the Jedi-killing nihilists I know from the franchise. In this classic tale of good vs. evil, TOR falls flat on its face with, "Meh, it's really a stalemate.", while I understand this might be necessary so players can be both good and evil -- when it comes to Star Wars, it kills a little more magic of the epic saga for me when a 'stalemate' between good and evil is acceptable.
BioWare did the best they could, and I guess in some respects they had a really tall order handed to them, but I expected more out of a Star Wars story.
It certainly didn't help the game's setting takes place a few thousand years before the movies, so much of the 'iconic' things we know from the movies are just plain absent in the game, even though the artists have tried hard to be 'inspired' by said iconic things -- but to me they come off as more of a cheap rip-off than being 'inspired by'.
Fans like iconic ships, costumes, weapons, etc., STO has delivered on this because the game setting is not on one extreme of the timeline.
Combat Sucks: Lightsabers feel more like billy clubs you beat someone in the head with. I expect a lightsaber in a Star Wars game to feel more like a lightsaber. Swords and shields work great in fantasy games, where you have to keep chopping away -- but the lightsaber is a classic part of pop culture and when it behaves... not like a lightsaber in TOR? It makes it a little less special to me.
End Result:
STO has heart, even if it doesn't have the money or development time.
SWTOR has no heart because EA has no heart. When this game is created by one of the two majorly evil companies in the video game industry (the other being SOE), it is not unexpected that they deliver questionable ethics. They have the money -- but they blew the money on voice acting, which does not make for a good game.
The management refused to budge to make the game f2p for the longest time, to the point they had to clear house a little since the game's finances were struggling in this oversaturated and cutthroat MMO market. Their delay in allowing the game to go f2p (which again is laughable), is more evidence that EA is not only evil, but also out-of-touch with the market trends and what customers want.
The Star Wars name alone might keep it afloat, but it has been horribly mismanaged in ways Cryptic could only dream of mismanaging.
STO might not be perfect, but the people at Cryptic treat people like humans more often than not. They don't come across as evil overlords to me, they come across as fellow gamers and professionals who want to make an awesome Star Trek game -- and though mistakes might have been made, they pale in comparison to the truly evil and ethically corrupt men and women at EA.
Presentation - Story-wise, I like TOR better, all the classes/races/factions wrap up into one story. The story in STO is all over the place and they graft and prune as they see fit. I have a hard time forgiving them for ruining the original tutorial and STFs storyline. TOR also has much better cutscenes, STO's seem stiff and lifeless. Graphically, I like STO better. I never liked the cartoonish look of LucasArts games. STO's graphics have come a long ways and look very crisp and professional although they are not perfect. Elements like scale when looking at ship interiors and ships to starbases hold STO back. Sound is also better in TOR with real lightsaber and blaster sounds, iconic sounds. In STO phasers and torpedoes don't sound right when compared to the shows/movies. Musically, I like STO's music but TOR is good too and they take the advantage in that they make use to the IPs iconic score. As far as layout and overall look I think they are pretty equal.
Enjoyment - STO has a better F2P model if that is important to you, but I am a lifer here and I pay in TOR as well. I personally think F2P brought in the 'dregs' to the STO player base. The whole lockbox/lobi concept may line Cryptic's pocket more to their liking but the player ultimately is the one that is punished. To me making a player pay means that they are less likely to grief queues and social zones and more likely to actually play the game, which is more enjoyable for other players as well. Quality of life to me is a bit better in TOR as well. In STO I live in fear of what will be nerfed next.
Other - Lastability. Both IPs are huge, the biggest in SciFi. TOR is going to continue to draw SW fans and they have a new movie coming out soon. That will no doubt boost their population. The fact that LucasArts is involved with TOR is a godsend and it means there is little horse play with the IP and what they release. STO has another ST movie to look forward to as well but those movies have disenfranchised the fan base much like STO has. The more STO ignores the established canon of the IP, the more of a turn off it will be to ST fans who are looking to play a true ST game. STO has taken too many elements and liberties from other Sci-Fi IPs and not enough from Star Trek.
The state of the space combat game (if you want to even call it that) when SWTOR launched was terrible. Rail shooter, no freedom of flight, etc. This was a terrible shame since some of the best space shooters in the history of the genre were Star Wars games.
When SOE launched SWG in 2003, and it became apparent it had no space combat, people were ripping it apart for that alone. It had a lot of other issues, but I still remember the oftenly repeated complaint from reviewers: "How do you have a Star Wars game without space combat?" For an MMORPG, people wanted to fly X-Wings, TIE Fighters, etc. SOE rectified that within 6-8 months of release, but man... SWG got lambasted hard.
Then we had SWTOR. It's like BioWare took the warning to heart, but what they did was a simple "check in the box."
"Oh yeah, we got space combat!"
Well, yes, they did. But I was hoping for something more.
Like I said in an earlier post, SWG had serious issues. But we had subscribers that only logged in to play the "Jump to Lightspeed" / Space content of SWG and not do anything for ground except crafting replacement starcraft parts, consumeables, and new ships. Or maybe run around to turn in a mission. But the space combat struck a very wonderful balance in upgradable gear, equipment decay, awesome crafting, and player skill... at the MMORPG level of depth one expected. It was a great space expansion, one I wish SOE put more effort in enlarging it, but they never did.
Then we had SWTOR's space game... My God... For a game that released at the end of 2011 to get totally outclassed by SWG's space game from 2004, that's bad.
As for STO and it's release, it really needed at least 1 more year of development.
I agree entirely.
For all the whining and ranting about Cryptic, I have to say that when I've actually SEEN the devs talking, they come across as complete nerds, like me.
I like that. I trust my fellow nerds. I believe that they genuinely want to make a truly great game. For all that STO can feel unpolished, it's already pretty damn good.
And, of course, SWTOR has the worst F2P model EVER.
Also, I'm changing my review a bit from what I posted above. I now give graphics to SW:ToR. The 2.8 patch they just released came with new shaders and the game looks very, very polished. There is now no comparison between the 2 games.
i like tor because its a star wars mmo i like sto because its a star trek mmo and up in till i see something better well you know all we got
system Lord Baal is dead
tor is good but not that good love to see the link to this tho
system Lord Baal is dead
The statement was made by Jeff Hickman, EP of Live Services of BioWare, during last fall's Community Cantina Tour at EA San Francisco. It has also been repeated by their Community Manager Eric Musco. Take a look at post #33 at this link here if you are able to. Here is another link. Here is audio from the event, at about the 3:20 mark is where he says it. Searching Google or YouTube also yields many fan sites, blogs, or podcasts that talk about the statement.
I played SWTOR from its release for about a year with a paid sub. Some of the stories were great, and the PVP (at least before level 50 with all the dull grinding) was fun as well. After I had gone through the stories worth going through though, paying fifteen bucks a month to do boring endgame TRIBBLE wasn't worth it.
I have never gotten mad at Star Trek Online. SWTOR, however, is irritating in how obviously greedy the developers are. They claimed not to want to do holiday events. That changed when they realized they could sell stuff in their overpriced micro-transaction store. That kind of hypocrisy gets me mad and makes me want to go back to good old dependable STO. At least here I'll always have a guaranteed fun experience from the latest FREE episode or FREE foundry mission.