Just because the feds are the majority does not mean that the constant whine for the last remaining toys of the other factions is justified.
Its greed and envy only.
Vanilla does not an interesting or fun gameplay make.
But again, that's a pretty basic item. A Battle Cruiser. Why wouldn't various sides in an ongoing fight not all end up with what one would consider a Battle Cruiser?
You know, it would be one thing if the KDF had a Pet Summoning Kit that allowed a player to run a Targ Handler and Feds wanted that. A Targ Handler is pretty specific to the KDF. A Battle Cruiser? Yeah...no, it's not specific at all.
One can make a strong case for specifics not being shared...but many of the things that tend to get brought up are pretty generic.
It's like the argument against there being a Heavy Raptor Carrier. So let's see, the faction that does the Full Carriers and the Flight-Deck Cruisers...wouldn't have Raptor Carriers because why?
Some things just aren't specific - some things are simply logical...things shouldn't be artificially separated just because things should be different. Things should be different if they're actually different.
don't bother, folks in the thread aren't interested in actually discussing, their argument is basically "lol, uniqueness", i made several points which were ignored even.
the only things that really should and will remain unique are BoP for klingons, warbirds for romulans and nothing for feds i guess, its funny since cruisers are supposed to be the "unique" thing about feds, i guess their lower turn rate compared to battlecruisers is pretty unique, also lol attract fire cruiser command, to make them blow up faster i guess.
science ships no longer count, since everyone got a free sci destroyer at the anniversary, and can buy more from z-store now and never mind the z-store versions have the highest shield capacity in the game atm, and are better than the vast majority of sci-vessels.
but no, feds getting a fed style carrier is heresy(TBH like it should have been like that from the beginning, instead we got the cat-dong), all cryptic has to do, is make a support focused carrier, since engineering/science is the federation strength in canon at least.
also give aceton assimilator to feds so the forums burn down in flames at the rage from PvPers.
Just because the feds are the majority does not mean that the constant whine for the last remaining toys of the other factions is justified.
Its greed and envy only.
Vanilla does not an interesting or fun gameplay make.
you act as if everyone asking for this stuff plays FED only, no envy involved from me at least.
The notion that the KDF is somehow entitled to the only faction with Carriers, is frankly, hilarious.
Especially since federation carriers have been a concept since Starfleet Battles and nobody had a problem with it, heck most the time a carrier shows up in a Star Trek game its a federation ship using federation fighters
But again, that's a pretty basic item. A Battle Cruiser. Why wouldn't various sides in an ongoing fight not all end up with what one would consider a Battle Cruiser?
Yep especially seeing as the Klingons themselves didn't mind classifying the Enterprise as a battlecruiser.
And all they are in this game is a cruiser that is balanced for combat.
But again, that's a pretty basic item. A Battle Cruiser. Why wouldn't various sides in an ongoing fight not all end up with what one would consider a Battle Cruiser?
You know, it would be one thing if the KDF had a Pet Summoning Kit that allowed a player to run a Targ Handler and Feds wanted that. A Targ Handler is pretty specific to the KDF. A Battle Cruiser? Yeah...no, it's not specific at all.
One can make a strong case for specifics not being shared...but many of the things that tend to get brought up are pretty generic.
It's like the argument against there being a Heavy Raptor Carrier. So let's see, the faction that does the Full Carriers and the Flight-Deck Cruisers...wouldn't have Raptor Carriers because why?
Some things just aren't specific - some things are simply logical...things shouldn't be artificially separated just because things should be different. Things should be different if they're actually different.
¨
For precisely that reason. If you've already got a series of carriers, why remodel an entirely different class of ships into carriers?
It makes sense for the Federation (With few purpose-built carriers) to basically strap hangars to anything that can fit it, but the Klingons have proper purpose-built carriers: They'd design their ships as carriers from the ground up.
For precisely that reason. If you've already got a series of carriers, why remodel an entirely different class of ships into carriers?
It makes sense for the Federation (With few purpose-built carriers) to basically strap hangars to anything that can fit it, but the Klingons have proper purpose-built carriers: They'd design their ships as carriers from the ground up.
They would design the ships as the needs arose or as they foresaw needs...
And again, the KDF has both Full Carriers and Flight-Deck Cruisers. Based on what you said there, they wouldn't have Flight-Deck Cruisers either...
When someone says" We are the feds. The IP is about just us. We deserve the attention. Get used to it." as a means of defending thier whine. Yes, I make the leap that they play fed.
When someone says" We are the feds. The IP is about just us. We deserve the attention. Get used to it." as a means of defending thier whine. Yes, I make the leap that they play fed.
Almost right, but this is the correct quote: "We are the feds. The IP is about just us. We deserve the attention. Resistance is futile."
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Almost right, but this is the correct quote: "We are the feds. The IP is about just us. We deserve the attention. Resistance is futile."
Pretty much this.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
No what I mean is each faction should have it's own strength at what it's good at.
Federation: Best sci ships around and tougher hulls.
KDF: They should have raiders and frigate carriers and a slightly higher alpha strike than Roms coming out of cloak.
Rom: Singularities and battle cloaks, and ofcourse the have the scimitars, kings of dps.
Granted I am sure there are other ways to separate each faction, but make them counter to eachother. Other games do this quite well infact. I watched a game, Battlestar Galactica online do this. Red vs Blue, literally THE EXACT SAME TECH, on both sides, just depended on which side ya flew for and it got BORING.
I am really hating to see STO slide the same way.
Before the Romulans were added, Feds and Klingons had differences. Klingons had carriers, battle cloak, good consoles like theta radiation, but the fed players whined like crazy because they couldn't beat the Klingons in PvP. Cryptic then bent over for the whiners and gave the feds all of the Klingon stuff except battle cloak.
Romulans now have battle cloak and singularity abilities and fed whiners are now demanding them as well.
How hard is it for cryptic to tell the whiners "Kiss our TRIBBLE! We're not neutering the factions of of their individual strengths by giving them to everyone."?
You guys were whining just as much when the Tempest came out...
The KDF players didn't ask for Warbirds. The KDF players never asked for Singularity Cores and their abilities.
The complaining about the Tempest isn't about the Tempest itself, but about a discrepancy in the elementary game mechanic of console slots, where Starfleet now has 4 escort ships that carry 5. And even so, there were many many players (myself included) that said - "Let the Feds have their fun with the Tempest" and that her appearance for Fed players is not rantworthy.
Oh and carriers are NOT yours... never were KDF ever ever ever said to be the only ones with carriers.
You have raiders, you have sci ships, you have cloaks, you have frigate carrier pets.
Feds have.. more ship skins.. and 5% more hull..
When this game was conceived, the KDF was the faction that uses carriers. And if you want to go by canon - then noone except the Kazon and Scimitars should have carriers.
And everyone can have frigate carrier pets nowdays.
Feds have a colorfull ship rooster where you can find a ship that fits anyone's playstyle perfectly. The KDF and the Roms have to make due with what they're thrown ocassionally.
Integrated battle cloak on Defiant in my opinion is a must, considering that ship's actual conditions in game.
Thing that pisses me off is that many Federation players whine, rant, call for nerfs, fail to do so and then whine, rant... etc.
They should learn to shut up a bit.
The KDF players didn't ask for Warbirds. The KDF players never asked for Singularity Cores and their abilities.
The complaining about the Tempest isn't about the Tempest itself, but about a discrepancy in the elementary game mechanic of console slots, where Starfleet now has 4 escort ships that carry 5. And even so, there were many many players (myself included) that said - "Let the Feds have their fun with the Tempest" and that her appearance for Fed players is not rantworthy.
When this game was conceived, the KDF was the faction that uses carriers. And if you want to go by canon - then noone except the Kazon and Scimitars should have carriers.
And everyone can have frigate carrier pets nowdays.
Feds have a colorfull ship rooster where you can find a ship that fits anyone's playstyle perfectly. The KDF and the Roms have to make due with what they're thrown ocassionally.
ya KDF get built in cloaks and raiders... feds get 5 tac console escorts.. seems fair to me.
Feds didn't ask for romulan ships as well.. most thought that romulans would be a totally different factions.. not given to both...
Crypitc ended the war between feds and klinks, mixed the pvp together... so they should just remove the 2 factions.. make it one big faction when you hit 50.. and that way just shut everyone up about what faction gets what. They can even slap a hefty quest chain with a rep grind to earn the right to pilot cross "faction" ships.,, and just be done with it.
and here is a hint: most people don't play STO to be Kahless or Sela they play to be Picard, Kirk and Janeway. the game is centered around the federation, period. you PVPer/ Klink/ roms need to get over that simple fact. even the least successful fed C store items surpass the most successful klingon one monetarily.
Here's a Pro Tip for you:
A number of past Star Trek games have allowed the player to play as... hold on now... Klingons, Romulans, etc.
A few examples:
Birth of the Federation: TNG setting, space grand strategy game that provided campaigns to play as the Federation, Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire, Cardassian Union (non Dominion War setting). The best part was that they played pretty differently, esp. the ships. WOW FACTION UNIQUENESS!
Klingon Academy: Do you want to take a guess what race you play as? :rolleyes:
Starfleet Command 1, 2, and 3: Space sim that STO took a lot of queues from for Space Combat. Not all of it, but any veteran SFC player will know what I'm talking about. Had single player storylines as well as a multiplayer "Dynaverse" map that players could choose what faction to play as. The factions differed between the games. SFC1, 2 were set in the Kirk TMP movie era. SFC3 was set in the TNG/DS9 era. But you had a chance to play as Federation, Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire. Some even included Gorn, Hydrans, Lyrans, etc. The main powers (Fed, Klingons, Roms) had their own storylines. All factions had fully fleshed out ships to choose from. All factions' ships played well in their own different ways... What's that? Does that mean.. FACTION UNIQUENESS?... Say it ain't so!!!
I won't deny that the main draw is the Federation POV. All the TV series, movies, etc. move things along in that direction and I don't mind it. I grew up on TOS reruns and watched TNG, DS9 when they aired.
But that isn't an excuse to not provide a more thorough game experience in the Star Trek franchise. Games have sought to bring a different perspective, different playstyle, hence the different factions. Past developers had gone out of their way to make up new ships for the non-Federation fleets. Past developers had gone out of their way to ensure they played differently.
If they all played exactly the same... what's the point? :rolleyes:
Last thing I want to add, despite the natural slant towards Starfleet and its vessels, it never stopped player communities from modding in non Starfleet ships to play with, always with player made ship models and textures with the same painstaking attention to detail, love & attention as they did with the Starfleet vessels. Bridge Commander and the Starfleet Command series benefited from this. The inclusion of more ships, canon & player designed brought more diversity.
Starfleet Command 3 for instance initially only allowed Federation, Klingon, Romulan storyline campaigns. Yet someone made a "DomWars" mod (yes, Dominion Wars setting). Playable factions with: Federation, Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire, Dominion Alliance (Cardassia, Dominion, Breen). With a whole slew of ships for all the varying factions, and all the fleets played differently. Multiplayer capable back in the day.
Past Star Trek games have offered different faction play, that played differently, and were fleshed out to make them worthwhile to play.
To say that the Federation slant of the IP means the Feds get everything because... well... they're Feds?... is TRIBBLE, and you know it.
Bottom line is that if the Feds ever got a Battle Cloak in anything, It would pretty much end it for many people that rely on it.
I have several ships with it and nothing beats being able to Alpha Strike from cloak, then cloak and runaway if I get so much as a paint scratch.
Add in the fact that it is in no way canon, Cloaking Devices being fragile machinery in the IP, In this game you can be down to 1% hull and still cloak and run away to heal.
The counter arguments are always amusing, from "It's in the game" to "It gives Klingons their uniqueness" to "Well, BoPs R Squishy."
If they ever BALANCE the game, at least a few of the Fed ships will get the Battle Cloak.
Before the Romulans were added, Feds and Klingons had differences. Klingons had carriers, battle cloak, good consoles like theta radiation, but the fed players whined like crazy because they couldn't beat the Klingons in PvP. Cryptic then bent over for the whiners and gave the feds all of the Klingon stuff except battle cloak.
Romulans now have battle cloak and singularity abilities and fed whiners are now demanding them as well.
How hard is it for cryptic to tell the whiners "Kiss our TRIBBLE! We're not neutering the factions of of their individual strengths by giving them to everyone."?
Well the feds for sci ships for example should have amazing cloak detection. Kind of like sonar pinging or something of that nature so then it becomes move counter move then in PvP gives fed sci ships a mission and it makes it paramount for those ships to be taken out.
Things like that where it makes it TACTICS and specific abilities and equipment where it makes it tactical choices instead of: Pop out, blow stuff up, disappear. Instead BoP tries that stunt and doesn't take out that vesta, he gets found and crushed like a bug.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Threads like this are just so much fun, because you can say something logical and tick off everybody! Wheeeee! Seriously, can tick of Feds, KDF, and Roms...by simply not giving into the "me - me - me" thing they've all got going on.
I'd say that Warbirds are the biggest fiasco. There was no need for every ship to be a Warbird. But all Romulan ships are Warbirds! Well, no - they're not. Neither the Temporal Science nor Temporal Destroyer are Warbirds. For that matter, we would not have the Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer nor the Tal Shiar Adapted Battle Cruiser were it not for the Tal Shiar - ala - Romulans.
So yeah, the whole Warbird thing was a massive blunder. No doubt they should have had some Warbirds, but the rest of the ships should have just been whatever class they would have been. As is it's pretty easy to make out what they would have been since Cryptic either prefixed or suffixed them with what they should be.
How about Dreadnoughts? There are no Dreadnoughts. There's the Dreadnought Cruisers, Dreadnought Carrier, and Dreadnought Warbirds...but there are no Dreadnoughts. There should have been Dreadnoughts. Dreadnoughts should have had something in common to define them as Dreadnoughts, separating them from other ships. Sure, there would be subtypes of Dreadnoughts - but they should have been Dreadnoughts first. Then again, ships that are Dreadnoughts should be Dreadnoughts. The Odyssey is a Dreadnought, but it is not a Dreadnought. The Bortas/Bortasqu' are Dreadnoughts, but they are not Dreadnoughts. The Vo'Quv is a Dreadnought, but it is not a Dreadnought.
And then basically you're just looking at a bunch of ship types that really aren't specific, even though folks appear to love to make them out to be.
Outside of Raiders and Warbirds, and even the Raiders could just have a different name for the Feds - oh, I don't know Corrvettes would have worked if not for the Risian - or Hell - even more so because of the Risian...there's no reason that all three groups wouldn't have the majority of the vessels.
Raptors would be variations of Escorts with a Cloak. Could Feds have Raptors? Defiant wants to be a Raptor. Would just need a Fed friendly name of it, eh?
Cruisers, Battle Cruisers, Dreadnought Cruisers, and Flight-Deck Cruisers - there's no reason why all three groups wouldn't have access to the four of them. Escorts, Destroyers...Science Vessels. Carriers.
This isn't some willy nilly RTS game where you fight a short campaign and distinctive units would come into play. It's an MMO from an ongoing storyline. There could still be distinct variants. There would still be distinct story.
Give Shakespeare and Einstein a pencil. Same type of pencil. Guess what? You're going to get different things. Why? Cause they're distinct...it's not the pencil. So many folks forget that...think that you've got to give Shakespeare a pen and Einstein a pencil...meh.
In the end though, Cryptic can't go back and fix the many curious mistakes. What they can do is stop making those mistakes and address the logical holes that exist that can address...
And if you want to go by canon - then noone except the Kazon and Scimitars should have carriers.
With the federation having fighters, which all the appeals to meaningless tech manuals that were never canon and never were going to be canon and equally meaningless websites won't change that.
So really the federation having a carrier isn't that much of a stretch.
ya KDF get built in cloaks and raiders... feds get 5 tac console escorts.. seems fair to me.
No it's not and I have explained this to you in various threads, but you just don't want to understand it. The consoles represent a basic gameplay mechanic of the game. You can't make the number of console slots unique to any faction, because they're essential mechanic that affects the preformance of any ship in the game.
Now on the other hand, some new ship class that would be distinct for the Federation and does whatever it does as long as it's in line with the portrayal of the Federation in the shows is just fine for Feds to have and keep as unique. Just as the KDF has the raider or the RR the warbird.
Quite frankly, this is where Fed players efforts should be and not whining for KDF and Romulan ship classes and consoles.
Crypitc ended the war between feds and klinks, mixed the pvp together... so they should just remove the 2 factions.. make it one big faction when you hit 50.. and that way just shut everyone up about what faction gets what. They can even slap a hefty quest chain with a rep grind to earn the right to pilot cross "faction" ships.,, and just be done with it.
And then we can say R.I.P. STO. Because that's what it'll be. Might as well call it "Generic Starship Combat Online" afterwards. No point in calling it Star Trek and having the trouble of obtaining a liscnece and having CBS over your shoulder after you make a fiasco like that.
Going by Canon would work...if it weren't 2410. There is no 2410 Canon for STO to violate.
Much of TNG violated TOS Canon, cause it didn't exist during TOS. Likewise, we could say the same about other shows/movies. They introduced new things...new things weren't Canon - they became Canon.
As soon as there's 2410 Canon...and what STO has violates that...then the Canon folks will have something to complain about...
If the Feds get a frigate carrier, it will be in the cstore. The Vo'quv will still be free and the KDF will still have the Kar'Fi. Also, the Fed frigate pets will most likely be Miranda class ships that provide support similar to the one that appears in the Fleet Reinforcement power. In that case the KDF will still have superior pets.
So the KDF would still have a 2:1 ratio of frigate carriers, so more diversity. In fact, I'd personally like to see a NEW KDF frigate carrier, one built buy the Orions. Use that Dreadnaught model and have the pets be larger versions of the interceptors, like the ones used to chase the Enterprise in "Borderland."
As for Feds having cloak, I think it's fine so long as the ships have to use the console from the Defiant/Dreadnaught, which takes up a valuable console slot and isn't a battle cloak.
Really, to counter cloaks feds should have better sensors, They usually found a way to detect a cloak when they put their minds to it, so withing the 10 km weapons range it should be easier for Feds to detect a cloaked ship.
No it's not and I have explained this to you in various threads, but you just don't want to understand it. The consoles represent a basic gameplay mechanic of the game. You can't make the number of console slots unique to any faction, because they're essential mechanic that affects the preformance of any ship in the game.
Now on the other hand, some new ship class that would be distinct for the Federation and does whatever it does as long as it's in line with the portrayal of the Federation in the shows is just fine for Feds to have and keep as unique. Just as the KDF has the raider or the RR the warbird.
Quite frankly, this is where Fed players efforts should be and not whining for KDF and Romulan ship classes and consoles.
And then we can say R.I.P. STO. Because that's what it'll be. Might as well call it "Generic Starship Combat Online" afterwards. No point in calling it Star Trek and having the trouble of obtaining a liscnece and having CBS over your shoulder after you make a fiasco like that.
It is a strecth if it was never seen on screen.
lol.. like hell you can't..
Your ship has built in cloaks.. feds have to give up console to cloak... so it effects a basic game play mechanic as you put it.
It's pretty obvious you do not want balance.. or do not understand balance..
Cloaking is a device, an after market part per se, for feds.
Why cant you all see that is the balance you pay to have something that you do not normaly have to use.
In all the IP the feds had two ships, two, that cloaked.
Some of you feds would not know balance if it bit you in the TRIBBLE.
Comments
Its greed and envy only.
Vanilla does not an interesting or fun gameplay make.
R.I.P
don't bother, folks in the thread aren't interested in actually discussing, their argument is basically "lol, uniqueness", i made several points which were ignored even.
the only things that really should and will remain unique are BoP for klingons, warbirds for romulans and nothing for feds i guess, its funny since cruisers are supposed to be the "unique" thing about feds, i guess their lower turn rate compared to battlecruisers is pretty unique, also lol attract fire cruiser command, to make them blow up faster i guess.
science ships no longer count, since everyone got a free sci destroyer at the anniversary, and can buy more from z-store now and never mind the z-store versions have the highest shield capacity in the game atm, and are better than the vast majority of sci-vessels.
but no, feds getting a fed style carrier is heresy(TBH like it should have been like that from the beginning, instead we got the cat-dong), all cryptic has to do, is make a support focused carrier, since engineering/science is the federation strength in canon at least.
also give aceton assimilator to feds so the forums burn down in flames at the rage from PvPers.
you act as if everyone asking for this stuff plays FED only, no envy involved from me at least.
Especially since federation carriers have been a concept since Starfleet Battles and nobody had a problem with it, heck most the time a carrier shows up in a Star Trek game its a federation ship using federation fighters
Yep especially seeing as the Klingons themselves didn't mind classifying the Enterprise as a battlecruiser.
And all they are in this game is a cruiser that is balanced for combat.
For precisely that reason. If you've already got a series of carriers, why remodel an entirely different class of ships into carriers?
It makes sense for the Federation (With few purpose-built carriers) to basically strap hangars to anything that can fit it, but the Klingons have proper purpose-built carriers: They'd design their ships as carriers from the ground up.
They would design the ships as the needs arose or as they foresaw needs...
And again, the KDF has both Full Carriers and Flight-Deck Cruisers. Based on what you said there, they wouldn't have Flight-Deck Cruisers either...
R.I.P
Almost right, but this is the correct quote: "We are the feds. The IP is about just us. We deserve the attention. Resistance is futile."
Pretty much this.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
You guys were whining just as much when the Tempest came out...
Oh and carriers are NOT yours... never were KDF ever ever ever said to be the only ones with carriers.
You have raiders, you have sci ships, you have cloaks, you have frigate carrier pets.
Feds have.. more ship skins.. and 5% more hull..
Before the Romulans were added, Feds and Klingons had differences. Klingons had carriers, battle cloak, good consoles like theta radiation, but the fed players whined like crazy because they couldn't beat the Klingons in PvP. Cryptic then bent over for the whiners and gave the feds all of the Klingon stuff except battle cloak.
Romulans now have battle cloak and singularity abilities and fed whiners are now demanding them as well.
How hard is it for cryptic to tell the whiners "Kiss our TRIBBLE! We're not neutering the factions of of their individual strengths by giving them to everyone."?
The KDF players didn't ask for Warbirds. The KDF players never asked for Singularity Cores and their abilities.
The complaining about the Tempest isn't about the Tempest itself, but about a discrepancy in the elementary game mechanic of console slots, where Starfleet now has 4 escort ships that carry 5. And even so, there were many many players (myself included) that said - "Let the Feds have their fun with the Tempest" and that her appearance for Fed players is not rantworthy.
When this game was conceived, the KDF was the faction that uses carriers. And if you want to go by canon - then noone except the Kazon and Scimitars should have carriers.
And everyone can have frigate carrier pets nowdays.
Feds have a colorfull ship rooster where you can find a ship that fits anyone's playstyle perfectly. The KDF and the Roms have to make due with what they're thrown ocassionally.
Thing that pisses me off is that many Federation players whine, rant, call for nerfs, fail to do so and then whine, rant... etc.
They should learn to shut up a bit.
ya KDF get built in cloaks and raiders... feds get 5 tac console escorts.. seems fair to me.
Feds didn't ask for romulan ships as well.. most thought that romulans would be a totally different factions.. not given to both...
Crypitc ended the war between feds and klinks, mixed the pvp together... so they should just remove the 2 factions.. make it one big faction when you hit 50.. and that way just shut everyone up about what faction gets what. They can even slap a hefty quest chain with a rep grind to earn the right to pilot cross "faction" ships.,, and just be done with it.
Here's a Pro Tip for you:
A number of past Star Trek games have allowed the player to play as... hold on now... Klingons, Romulans, etc.
A few examples:
Birth of the Federation: TNG setting, space grand strategy game that provided campaigns to play as the Federation, Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire, Cardassian Union (non Dominion War setting). The best part was that they played pretty differently, esp. the ships. WOW FACTION UNIQUENESS!
Klingon Academy: Do you want to take a guess what race you play as? :rolleyes:
Starfleet Command 1, 2, and 3: Space sim that STO took a lot of queues from for Space Combat. Not all of it, but any veteran SFC player will know what I'm talking about. Had single player storylines as well as a multiplayer "Dynaverse" map that players could choose what faction to play as. The factions differed between the games. SFC1, 2 were set in the Kirk TMP movie era. SFC3 was set in the TNG/DS9 era. But you had a chance to play as Federation, Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire. Some even included Gorn, Hydrans, Lyrans, etc. The main powers (Fed, Klingons, Roms) had their own storylines. All factions had fully fleshed out ships to choose from. All factions' ships played well in their own different ways... What's that? Does that mean.. FACTION UNIQUENESS?... Say it ain't so!!!
I won't deny that the main draw is the Federation POV. All the TV series, movies, etc. move things along in that direction and I don't mind it. I grew up on TOS reruns and watched TNG, DS9 when they aired.
But that isn't an excuse to not provide a more thorough game experience in the Star Trek franchise. Games have sought to bring a different perspective, different playstyle, hence the different factions. Past developers had gone out of their way to make up new ships for the non-Federation fleets. Past developers had gone out of their way to ensure they played differently.
If they all played exactly the same... what's the point? :rolleyes:
Last thing I want to add, despite the natural slant towards Starfleet and its vessels, it never stopped player communities from modding in non Starfleet ships to play with, always with player made ship models and textures with the same painstaking attention to detail, love & attention as they did with the Starfleet vessels. Bridge Commander and the Starfleet Command series benefited from this. The inclusion of more ships, canon & player designed brought more diversity.
Starfleet Command 3 for instance initially only allowed Federation, Klingon, Romulan storyline campaigns. Yet someone made a "DomWars" mod (yes, Dominion Wars setting). Playable factions with: Federation, Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire, Dominion Alliance (Cardassia, Dominion, Breen). With a whole slew of ships for all the varying factions, and all the fleets played differently. Multiplayer capable back in the day.
Past Star Trek games have offered different faction play, that played differently, and were fleshed out to make them worthwhile to play.
To say that the Federation slant of the IP means the Feds get everything because... well... they're Feds?... is TRIBBLE, and you know it.
Bottom line is that if the Feds ever got a Battle Cloak in anything, It would pretty much end it for many people that rely on it.
I have several ships with it and nothing beats being able to Alpha Strike from cloak, then cloak and runaway if I get so much as a paint scratch.
Add in the fact that it is in no way canon, Cloaking Devices being fragile machinery in the IP, In this game you can be down to 1% hull and still cloak and run away to heal.
The counter arguments are always amusing, from "It's in the game" to "It gives Klingons their uniqueness" to "Well, BoPs R Squishy."
If they ever BALANCE the game, at least a few of the Fed ships will get the Battle Cloak.
Well the feds for sci ships for example should have amazing cloak detection. Kind of like sonar pinging or something of that nature so then it becomes move counter move then in PvP gives fed sci ships a mission and it makes it paramount for those ships to be taken out.
Things like that where it makes it TACTICS and specific abilities and equipment where it makes it tactical choices instead of: Pop out, blow stuff up, disappear. Instead BoP tries that stunt and doesn't take out that vesta, he gets found and crushed like a bug.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Cruiser
Battle Cruiser
Dreadnought Cruiser
Flight-Deck Cruiser
Escort
Destroyer
Heavy Escort Carrier
Science Vessel
"Science Carrier"
Science Destroyer
Raptor
Raider
Carrier
*Warbird*
I'd say that Warbirds are the biggest fiasco. There was no need for every ship to be a Warbird. But all Romulan ships are Warbirds! Well, no - they're not. Neither the Temporal Science nor Temporal Destroyer are Warbirds. For that matter, we would not have the Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer nor the Tal Shiar Adapted Battle Cruiser were it not for the Tal Shiar - ala - Romulans.
So yeah, the whole Warbird thing was a massive blunder. No doubt they should have had some Warbirds, but the rest of the ships should have just been whatever class they would have been. As is it's pretty easy to make out what they would have been since Cryptic either prefixed or suffixed them with what they should be.
How about Dreadnoughts? There are no Dreadnoughts. There's the Dreadnought Cruisers, Dreadnought Carrier, and Dreadnought Warbirds...but there are no Dreadnoughts. There should have been Dreadnoughts. Dreadnoughts should have had something in common to define them as Dreadnoughts, separating them from other ships. Sure, there would be subtypes of Dreadnoughts - but they should have been Dreadnoughts first. Then again, ships that are Dreadnoughts should be Dreadnoughts. The Odyssey is a Dreadnought, but it is not a Dreadnought. The Bortas/Bortasqu' are Dreadnoughts, but they are not Dreadnoughts. The Vo'Quv is a Dreadnought, but it is not a Dreadnought.
And then basically you're just looking at a bunch of ship types that really aren't specific, even though folks appear to love to make them out to be.
Outside of Raiders and Warbirds, and even the Raiders could just have a different name for the Feds - oh, I don't know Corrvettes would have worked if not for the Risian - or Hell - even more so because of the Risian...there's no reason that all three groups wouldn't have the majority of the vessels.
Raptors would be variations of Escorts with a Cloak. Could Feds have Raptors? Defiant wants to be a Raptor. Would just need a Fed friendly name of it, eh?
Cruisers, Battle Cruisers, Dreadnought Cruisers, and Flight-Deck Cruisers - there's no reason why all three groups wouldn't have access to the four of them. Escorts, Destroyers...Science Vessels. Carriers.
This isn't some willy nilly RTS game where you fight a short campaign and distinctive units would come into play. It's an MMO from an ongoing storyline. There could still be distinct variants. There would still be distinct story.
Give Shakespeare and Einstein a pencil. Same type of pencil. Guess what? You're going to get different things. Why? Cause they're distinct...it's not the pencil. So many folks forget that...think that you've got to give Shakespeare a pen and Einstein a pencil...meh.
In the end though, Cryptic can't go back and fix the many curious mistakes. What they can do is stop making those mistakes and address the logical holes that exist that can address...
With the federation having fighters, which all the appeals to meaningless tech manuals that were never canon and never were going to be canon and equally meaningless websites won't change that.
So really the federation having a carrier isn't that much of a stretch.
No it's not and I have explained this to you in various threads, but you just don't want to understand it. The consoles represent a basic gameplay mechanic of the game. You can't make the number of console slots unique to any faction, because they're essential mechanic that affects the preformance of any ship in the game.
Now on the other hand, some new ship class that would be distinct for the Federation and does whatever it does as long as it's in line with the portrayal of the Federation in the shows is just fine for Feds to have and keep as unique. Just as the KDF has the raider or the RR the warbird.
Quite frankly, this is where Fed players efforts should be and not whining for KDF and Romulan ship classes and consoles.
And then we can say R.I.P. STO. Because that's what it'll be. Might as well call it "Generic Starship Combat Online" afterwards. No point in calling it Star Trek and having the trouble of obtaining a liscnece and having CBS over your shoulder after you make a fiasco like that.
It is a strecth if it was never seen on screen.
Much of TNG violated TOS Canon, cause it didn't exist during TOS. Likewise, we could say the same about other shows/movies. They introduced new things...new things weren't Canon - they became Canon.
As soon as there's 2410 Canon...and what STO has violates that...then the Canon folks will have something to complain about...
So the KDF would still have a 2:1 ratio of frigate carriers, so more diversity. In fact, I'd personally like to see a NEW KDF frigate carrier, one built buy the Orions. Use that Dreadnaught model and have the pets be larger versions of the interceptors, like the ones used to chase the Enterprise in "Borderland."
As for Feds having cloak, I think it's fine so long as the ships have to use the console from the Defiant/Dreadnaught, which takes up a valuable console slot and isn't a battle cloak.
Really, to counter cloaks feds should have better sensors, They usually found a way to detect a cloak when they put their minds to it, so withing the 10 km weapons range it should be easier for Feds to detect a cloaked ship.
lol.. like hell you can't..
Your ship has built in cloaks.. feds have to give up console to cloak... so it effects a basic game play mechanic as you put it.
It's pretty obvious you do not want balance.. or do not understand balance..
Pot.Kettle.Black.
Why cant you all see that is the balance you pay to have something that you do not normaly have to use.
In all the IP the feds had two ships, two, that cloaked.
Some of you feds would not know balance if it bit you in the TRIBBLE.
R.I.P
A lack of consistency.
The Varanus/Fleet Varanus has lower stats than the DSSV/Fleet DSSV...cause KDF don't "do" Sci.
So uh...the Korath? DSD/ADSDs?
If it no longer applied, then why does it still apply?
Sure, you were talking to the Feds...but I've got complaints too!