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No more COOKIE CUTTER!!!!

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  • aloishammeraloishammer Member Posts: 3,294 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Why would somebody want to be Janeway?

    Well you know, some people just want to watch the quadrant burn.
  • phoeniciusphoenicius Member Posts: 762 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    straenge wrote: »
    Personally, I agree with everything that is said but.. I also would like a bit more of a variety/bonus to each faction as far as certain types of ships/roles that would be both a bit underwhelming to most but at the same time balanciing and work fine for those of us who don't min/max. I would personally like to see a free/non-store T4 Fed Carrier, T4 KDF science ship and a T4 Rom Assault cruiser. Many would skip the ships in favor of others but some of us would just like a bit of variety that has nothing to do min/maxing or ultimate DPS.

    i do think they should add free sci-ships to klingons(and make a T5 store version, to get some money of course, like the ar'kif), i guess they could do the same with the carrier for the feds, but romulans honestly never had a galaxy/negh'var-like cruiser/battlecruiser, its all warbirds, how exactly would cryptic even give them one? only thing i can think of, is that they could maybe copy the avenger/mogh lol and make a romulan version.
    shpoks wrote: »
    You're trying to start a very noble incentive talonxv and I commend you on that.

    Unfortunatley, since LoR (I'm not sure why is this, but it's just my impression since I tended to see more intelligent discussions before) the intelligence level in this forum is - dumb.
    Nothing more to say really. No wonder the devs. don't take the boards here seriously and that we're not getting the levels of communication we used to. If they have a good mind, they'd ignore this place completely.

    i would like to hear you counter my arguments then, if they are so dumb.
  • kestrel5kestrel5 Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    A simple cure to this issue is to have a PvP que that is for vanilla builds excluding the Warp Core, Shields, impulse engines and deflector. No modules from C-Store or Lobi. As for weapons, fleet, reputation store, and/or the ones you can find on the exchange.

    :)
  • rakija879rakija879 Member Posts: 646 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Impulse Capacitance Cell - useful in running away from fat ships :P
    Photonic Displacer- discard
    Point Defense System - discard
    Antimatter Spread - useful
    Nadeon Detonator - discard
    Ionized Gas Sensor - discard, its not very useful

    So its like 2250 in value more or less :)
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    phoenicius wrote: »
    i would like to hear you counter my arguments then, if they are so dumb.

    I'm sorry, was I talking to you? Yeah, you only proved my point here mate.

    But for the sake of lol:D since you ask for it - you "conveniently" left out the beast of a Patrol Escort Refit, a 5 tac.consoles ship from your "sad" list of 5 tac.consoles Starfleet ships.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • icsairgunsicsairguns Member Posts: 1,504 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    phoenicius wrote: »
    erm, yes i have 3 regular KDF and 2 rom-KDFs, and i actually main one of the KDFs.

    idk where you got the idea KDF stuff costs more, as long as you know when to buy, they're generally the same price(sometimes even cheaper), boffs are also ridiculously cheap compared to feds(it used to be opposite, but that changed several months ago).

    the feds have 3 five-tac consoles, but one of which isn't optimal by any means, the kumari has only ONE eng boff slot, which is pretty bad, most people fly the charal for that reason, so only the fleet defiant and fleet prometheus are left, the romulans are honestly a joke with all their 5 tac console ships, but they can go either side, so if you to complain about something, complain about the romulans

    also i actually asked many times for a KDF 5 tac console escort-like ship(personally i would like the idea of a 5 forward weapons BoP with 4 tac consoles), in any case i do want a klingon escort/BoP/raptor/escort carrier, KDF direly needs one, but this doesn't change the fact FED ships tend to be weaker than their equivalents on other factions, and that is one of the reasons people ask for stuff.

    and to finish, i don't understand how a fed carrier is such an amazing impossibility, since it was allowed on SF:command II and there is even a novel with a fed carrier, remember the vesta was from a novel too.

    your just &#$% I only play kdf side.but I do have my orginal fed that I was forced to make. and I do compare prices for duty officers. and they are as of yesterday (haven't been in game yet today) allot more expensive KDF side than they are fed side. which is logical because we have less people acquiring things like purple doffs than the feds do, so the demand is greater than the supply. for the more common kdf doffs that is. and bridge officers you can pick up for 1 ec all the time. but if you hunt for certain skills its gonna cost more. in this I belive the feds are much cheaper and that just because the majority of feds don't know how to optimize the boffs and have no idea why one is worth 1ec and another 1 million ec.

    as far as a 5 fore weapon bop, that would be nuts why have a raider that outdoes a vorcha its just crazy. and why and HOW in the world would a small craft carry anything beyond the size of a shuttle in them?

    and I was not the one moaning about anything other than the BS your trying to feed people. and the answer to the question for KDF 5 tac console ships was 1 ONE for the warrior race. LOL

    and id like to meet your KDF toon its probably just a mule for your fed .
    Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days. Ch'ar%20POST%20LoR.JPG


  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    By your logic, the Romulans would have never gotten the Ar'Kif, which you use, and the KDF would have never gotten the Dyson Destroyer, which you use, and the Federation would have never gotten the Avenger, which you use.

    So, the counter-argument would have been..."Want a Dyson Destroyer? Play Fed. Want an Armitage? Play Fed. Want a Battle Cruiser? Play KDF"

    Then so be it.
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
  • baelogventurebaelogventure Member Posts: 1,002 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I'm all with giving people variety, and giving the Roms an Avenger/Mogh Copy, giving the KDF Science Vessels and a 5/2 5 Tac Raptor, and giving the Federation a Carrier.

    Thing is. You can't call for "NO MORE COOKIE CUTTERZORS" while having a signature of your 3 faction mains, using ships ripped off from opposite factions.

    The notion that the KDF is somehow entitled to the only faction with Carriers, is frankly, hilarious.

    It would be like me saying that "KDF can't have any Sci Vessels, because Feds had them first"

    Equally stupid would be saying "Romulans can't have cloaking, because KDF had it first"

    I honestly don't know why some people find the idea of a Federation Carrier SO outlandish, but they're perfectly fine with what the other factions have ripped off of the Federation.

    Double-standard much?
  • kintishokintisho Member Posts: 1,040 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Hmmmmmm, so its not canon to have an arms race.. (means you never watched the shows)
    The enemies of the federation act- the federation does not (there is no section 31)
    This whiny OP needs to actually watch some trek before speaking about whats canon.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Well you know, some people just want to watch the quadrant burn.

    Oh...Janeway could be the major villain for X2!
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I'm all with giving people variety, and giving the Roms an Avenger/Mogh Copy, giving the KDF Science Vessels and a 5/2 5 Tac Raptor, and giving the Federation a Carrier.

    Thing is. You can't call for "NO MORE COOKIE CUTTERZORS" while having a signature of your 3 faction mains, using ships ripped off from opposite factions.

    The notion that the KDF is somehow entitled to the only faction with Carriers, is frankly, hilarious.

    It would be like me saying that "KDF can't have any Sci Vessels, because Feds had them first"

    Equally stupid would be saying "Romulans can't have cloaking, because KDF had it first"

    I honestly don't know why some people find the idea of a Federation Carrier SO outlandish, but they're perfectly fine with what the other factions have ripped off of the Federation.

    Double-standard much?

    I will MORE than happily give up the Avenger and the Ak'rif tac carrier(that could just be put into a standard warbird style anyways).

    And I wasn't talking ships in so much everybody wants the same abilities. But ships to break it up and spread it out, please take my Avenger, just give me back my 2500 zen. Take the flight dek off my Ak'rif. Happily give it up for more diversity.

    Ships like the Dyson sphere. They are an exception to the rule since they fit within the story line. Each faction took some of the dyson sphere tech, then added their own. That kind of cookie cutter(in so much as it is) WORKS. It has REASON behind it.

    Just coyping the armitage over and over, not so much

    I'm not saying get rid of it ALL, but there should be some tech that belongs to 1 faction and 1 alone.

    Again, want me to hold myself to the standard, eventhough I like the Avenger, I don't think the federation should of ever gotten it, I think the KDF should of gotten the Mogh.

    Akrif, shouldn't of been a flight deck carrier. Should of just been a 2k zen tactical warbird upgrade from the Ak'ala.

    So yeah sure, take the avenger. Just be sure I get the refund first :cool:
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited May 2014
    I got 6 Fed......3 romulan Fed
    I got 7 KDF.....3 Romulan KDF

    I got a jem hadar dread as a carrier for my Fed its a good ship but it isnt a Fed ship..I got the jhas pets too still it isnt Fed............I want this in Fed so do many others..........At my stage in the Game looks are as important as performance

    Compared to romulans my Feds are Comically outgunned..........I want engineering and science SROs at the romulam embassy i can buy to wqual up .........My Romulans will still have a 1.5 % crit advantage if this is done.They have a 7.5% crit advantage making them super OP to my Fed and Klingon characters

    I play PvE so Fed science ships are a waste to me..They dont really count because most of the science skills are broken to balence PvP only gravity well and sa are worthwhile and there not enough to fly a sci ship with its low dps............I got the Wells/ Vesta/ LR Recon

    My Sci toons do much better in Carriers/ Escorts and cruisers

    My klingons have much the same issues as my Feds do except the lack of appealing ships for my klingons.....They want more appealing ship selections............That look KLINGON Dammit ! and dont forget the clothing too

    My Romulans are smug and arrogant they have everything.........they do double the DPS they can fly engineering shipa doing the DPS my Tac in a escort does Federation..........That is plain Rude

    Not only that they get all of the KDF perks as well and really get smug like tommalok
    But
    My Romulans can fly any ship class with more dps than my feds or Klinks and devote skills and BO powers to Fun things or junk consoles and still equal or surpass my other toons

    The Feds have good reason to whine
    So do the klingons

    The Romulans drink there ale and laff their behinds off at both....................chump's
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • phoeniciusphoenicius Member Posts: 762 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    shpoks wrote: »
    You're trying to start a very noble incentive talonxv and I commend you on that.

    Unfortunatley, since LoR (I'm not sure why is this, but it's just my impression since I tended to see more intelligent discussions before) the intelligence level in this forum is - dumb.
    Nothing more to say really. No wonder the devs. don't take the boards here seriously and that we're not getting the levels of communication we used to. If they have a good mind, they'd ignore this place completely.
    shpoks wrote: »
    I'm sorry, was I talking to you? Yeah, you only proved my point here mate.

    But for the sake of lol:D since you ask for it - you "conveniently" left out the beast of a Patrol Escort Refit, a 5 tac.consoles ship from your "sad" list of 5 tac.consoles Starfleet ships.

    actually yes you were, since you referred to the whole forum as dumb, also if you don't want people to retort, send personal messages, don't make public posts, i don't think the whole forum is dumb, but you certainly proved yourself as part of the problem, and you still haven't countered any of my points.

    plus i actually forgot about the patrol escort, but it still doesn't matter, since romulans beat feds in that regard(5 tacs+battlecloak lol), but apparently that is fine? i also want KDF 5 tac ships as well, so... you were saying again?
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    phoenicius wrote: »
    actually yes you were, since you referred to the whole forum as dumb, also if you don't want people to retort, send personal messages, don't make public posts, i don't think the whole forum is dumb, but you certainly proved yourself as part of the problem, and you still haven't countered any of my points.

    plus i actually forgot about the patrol escort, but it still doesn't matter, since romulans beat feds in that regard(5 tacs+battlecloak lol), but apparently that is fine? i also want KDF 5 tac ships as well, so... you were saying again?

    Sorry, I can't counter dumb. I said the overall intelligence level of the forum is - dumb. If you found yourself there that is your problem, not mine.

    I wasn't saying anything, I wasn't even talking to you. You've basically talked to yourself here, imagining to be talking to me. *facepalm*
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • phoeniciusphoenicius Member Posts: 762 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    shpoks wrote: »
    Sorry, I can't counter dumb. I said the overall intelligence level of the forum is - dumb. If you found yourself there that is your problem, not mine.

    I wasn't saying anything, I wasn't even talking to you. You've basically talked to yourself here, imagining to be talking to me. *facepalm*

    you didn't said "overall", you said "the intelligence level in this forum is - dumb." and made no exceptions, i simply asked you to point what is dumb about what i said, you haven't been able to, interesting.

    again, if you don't want people to answer to what you said, don't post, use PMs.
  • generalmocogeneralmoco Member Posts: 1,634
    edited May 2014
    Soooooooo that means that as a loyal player to STO... I can't demand what I like???

    Huh!!! Well in that case cancel all my subscriptions to "everything" including..

    Bestbuy, Target, Jc-Penny, Wal-Mart, Sam's Club.. .etc etc....

    Oh and lets not forget Krispie Kream
  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    phoenicius wrote: »
    you didn't said "overall", you said "the intelligence level in this forum is - dumb." and made no exceptions

    Overall is not an exception.

    It's the state one should assume if no exceptions are made.

    Which, as you point out, is what Shpoks actually did.



    Brought to you by the committee for creative cognitive dissonance
  • edited May 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • phoeniciusphoenicius Member Posts: 762 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    rinkster wrote: »
    Overall is not an exception.

    It's the state one should assume if no exceptions are made.

    Which, as you point out, is what Shpoks actually did.



    Brought to you by the committee for creative cognitive dissonance

    overall can also be used to refer to an average, which includes by definition variations.
    Soooooooo that means that as a loyal player to STO... I can't demand what I like???

    Huh!!! Well in that case cancel all my subscriptions to "everything" including..

    Bestbuy, Target, Jc-Penny, Wal-Mart, Sam's Club.. .etc etc....

    Oh and lets not forget Krispie Kream

    welcome to the world of no fun allowed, these guys are probably the same ones that whine about disco balls, and party devices.
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    phoenicius wrote: »
    you didn't said "overall", you said "the intelligence level in this forum is - dumb." and made no exceptions, i simply asked you to point what is dumb about what i said, you haven't been able to, interesting.

    again, if you don't want people to answer to what you said, don't post, use PMs.

    You keep proving my point. Thank you! :)

    I was adressing my post at talonxv, in case you haven't noticed. Yes, I said the intelligence level on the forum is - dumb and I honestly believe that. What you fail to understand is that an intelligence level could be dumb even if you have 10 intelligent and 90 dumb people at a given place.
    Again, if you found yourself in the "90" group in this case - that's your problem, not mine.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • phoeniciusphoenicius Member Posts: 762 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    shpoks wrote: »
    You keep proving my point. Thank you! :)

    I was adressing my post at talonxv, in case you haven't noticed. Yes, I said the intelligence level on the forum is - dumb and I honestly believe that. What you fail to understand is that an intelligence level could be dumb even if you have 10 intelligent and 90 dumb people at a given place.
    Again, if you found yourself in the "90" group in this case - that's your problem, not mine.

    you're not even reading my posts are you? or yours so it seems, there was no ambiguity in your post, you refered to the whole forum as dumb, and is now pretending you didn't, try reading your own sentence again.
  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    phoenicius wrote: »
    overall can also be used to refer to an average, which includes by definition variations.



    To find the IQ of pretty much any given group, simply find the lowest single IQ in the group and divide by the number of people in it.

    All of which says nothing about the individuals who may be present.....but does point out the truth that its easier to lower the level of discourse than it is to raise it





    And disco balls are wretched things, so there.
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    talonxv wrote: »
    I swear I get on these forums these days and yes I am going to generalize here but Federation players are becoming some of the biggest whiny babies.

    "I want aceton assimliators!" "I want battle cloaks built into everthing!" Personal favorite "I want federation raiders!"And ofcourse the most asked for "I want a frigate carrier for the federation!"

    Good god people? Are you all THAT LAZY? I am sure I just answered my own question there, but here's the better question, WHY do you need all that stuff? I mean seriously we're pretty much at that tipping point of everybody can drive the exact same thing all the way around, just a different cardboard cutout. Top it off Federation has more stuff than either other faction COMBINED.

    Yet you must haz more stuff? Me personally I have 7 characters. 3 mains 1 in each faction, then 4 to grind EC and DIL when I need it.

    Enough is enough. Want a frigate carrier. Roll a KDF and fly a vo'quv. Want battlecloaks on everything. Go play a Romulan. And for heavens sake. The Federation and I'll use big words and go slow for you:

    DOES. NOT. RAID. Goes against everything they stand for. Gonna play a Star Trek game, gonna have to know atleast a TINY bit about what Star Trek stands for. (yes to the hardcore star trek fans some of what the federation does went out the air lock, but raiding...no just no).

    I'm gonna buy you some Blood Wine. :)
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    phoenicius wrote: »
    you're not even reading my posts are you? or yours so it seems, there was no ambiguity in your post, you refered to the whole forum as dumb, and is now pretending you didn't, try reading your own sentence again.

    ...
    shpoks wrote: »
    You're trying to start a very noble incentive talonxv and I commend you on that.

    Unfortunatley, since LoR (I'm not sure why is this, but it's just my impression since I tended to see more intelligent discussions before) the intelligence level in this forum is - dumb.
    Nothing more to say really. No wonder the devs. don't take the boards here seriously and that we're not getting the levels of communication we used to. If they have a good mind, they'd ignore this place completely.

    Do you understand the words that are comming out of my mouth??? :rolleyes:
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    TIME OUT!!! This thread was not started so it could be a debate about the IQ level of the player base.

    I started it because every faction does not need the exact same stuff across the board. Lets keep it to that kids instead of a mud fight.
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    talonxv wrote: »
    TIME OUT!!! This thread was not started so it could be a debate about the IQ level of the player base.

    I started it because every faction does not need the exact same stuff across the board. Lets keep it to that kids instead of a mud fight.

    You're right and I'm sorry. I'll just stop replying on that discussion now.

    I always have and always will support what you're saying here even if the benefits od faction diversity and differencies in playstyle completely elude many people here.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • qjuniorqjunior Member Posts: 2,023 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Is someone else having the feeling of being stuck in a continuous forum loop ? 99% of all threads are basically the same, over and over. It's even the same people making the same posts. Very unproductive ! :o
  • generalmocogeneralmoco Member Posts: 1,634
    edited May 2014
    shpoks wrote: »
    You're right and I'm sorry. I'll just stop replying on that discussion now.

    I always have and always will support what you're saying here even if the benefits od faction diversity and differencies in playstyle completely elude many people here.

    Shall we "DEMAND" a Mod to close it??? :D
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Shall we "DEMAND" a Mod to close it??? :D

    Nah, why would they? It's a valid discussion with valid points, many people (including me) honestly believe that making everything cookie cutter or vanilla diminishes the overall quality of a game and deteriorates the playing experience of that game.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    shpoks wrote: »
    Nah, why would they? It's a valid discussion with valid points, many people (including me) honestly believe that making everything cookie cutter or vanilla diminishes the overall quality of a game and deteriorates the playing experience of that game.

    Exactly. There are certain situations where you have to go cookie cutter without giving one side a major advantage, but making the Armitage over and over again?

    Or giving battlecruisers for all? no just no.
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
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