LOL he's playing too much STF and thinking that players would just sit there and let him hit them as those gates lol.
Kind of reminds me of the complaints about Spheres and EPtE. Sure it was a little silly how they blindly zipped around and would get stuck...but all the complaints that targets were moving were a trip.
"Dear Cryptic,
You've made my targets move. Now I am required to chase them. This is not very fun. Please have my targets return to sitting still so I can destroy them.
LOL he's playing too much STF and thinking that players would just sit there and let him hit them as those gates lol.
You've made my targets move. Now I am required to chase them. This is not very fun. Please have my targets return to sitting still so I can destroy them.
Evidently. Armor, power, and damage should be in the favor of the larger ships category. But things do not work that way in the game. Smaller ships should have medium damage high evasion, low defense. NOT high damage high evasion high defense
Meh, yeah...they tried to do that whole...
Galaxy = Defiant = Intrepid
...thing, and well - it went downhill from there, eh?
Rather than a Rep system for PvP, it might be feasible to have something like League PvP, in which Fleets could compete against each other, and non-fleet captains could have individual combat brackets. Other games have such features, though the reward systems are different than that being proposed by the OP. It would be easy enough to have an exchange of EC's after each combat (either in dedicated zones or galaxy-wide) on an individual basis, but something more elaborate would have to be devised for Fleet actions. Also, this kind of competition would provide an additional way to use the Fleet equipment & consumables apart from the few Fleet PvE missions currently available.
IMO, it would even be interesting to see Fleets compete in STF's or PvE's, with some accolades/rewards linked in a different way than currently available. Elapsed time, number of optional objectives completed, etc., could be scoring controls for this "intramural" competition.
Either way, I can empathize with the overall sentiment that the end-game players should have something more interesting and open-ended, if only as a reward for the long years of devotion to the game!
Expendables Fleet: Andrew - Bajoran Fed Engineer Ken'taura - Rom/Fed Scientist Gwyllim - Human Fed Delta Tac Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
Let's face it. Most people don't PvP because they don't want to learn
Newsflash for you OP... Everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE I've spoken to about why they don't PvP, is because of the childish, stupid attitudes PvP'ers have.
They are arrogant, they think that whatever they believe should be changed about the game is right because they think THEY are the authority on what everyone should think is fun.
The same goes for me.
And you pretty much proved the point in the highlighted part of the quote.
How arrogant is it to assume that people don't want to learn, just because they don't PvP... It's actually to avoid your attitude...
Until that attitude goes away, PvP can (and should) be removed from the game for all I care.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
Newsflash for you OP... Everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE I've spoken to about why they don't PvP, is because of the childish, stupid attitudes PvP'ers have.
They are arrogant, they think that whatever they believe should be changed about the game is right because they think THEY are the authority on what everyone should think is fun.
The same goes for me.
And you pretty much proved the point in the highlighted part of the quote.
How arrogant is it to assume that people don't want to learn, just because they don't PvP... It's actually to avoid your attitude...
Until that attitude goes away, PvP can (and should) be removed from the game for all I care.
This is at least true for me. I can't stand PvP because of the childish attitudes; too much senseless ego-thumping involved.
Newsflash for you OP... Everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE I've spoken to about why they don't PvP, is because of the childish, stupid attitudes PvP'ers have.
They are arrogant, they think that whatever they believe should be changed about the game is right because they think THEY are the authority on what everyone should think is fun.
The same goes for me.
And you pretty much proved the point in the highlighted part of the quote.
How arrogant is it to assume that people don't want to learn, just because they don't PvP... It's actually to avoid your attitude...
Until that attitude goes away, PvP can (and should) be removed from the game for all I care.
They have a min/maxer flavor of the month mentality, as if stacking the most broken sets of skills on the most expensive lock box/lobi high dps stacked ships should be the norm, and anything less is uncivilized.
Until that attitude goes away, PvP can (and should) be removed from the game for all I care.
It's pretty ignorant to think that the attitude is limited to PvPers.
This game could have no PvP in it...and there would still be certain members of the PvE community shedding tears upon tears because some folks will still be pointing out bugs, still asking for content to be more difficult than it can be to log in to the game, etc, etc, etc.
There's no doubt that STO is an extremely casual game - we've had how much power creep for content that's actually easier than it was 3+ years ago even without the power creep? And so there are folks that want more of a challenge to the PvE that have nothing to do with PvP.
Oddly enough, the room for that difference should exist with Elite difficulty - but oddly enough, folks think that they should be able to charge in there without a care and come out patting themselves on the back.
It's pretty ignorant to think that the attitude is limited to PvPers.
This game could have no PvP in it...and there would still be certain members of the PvE community shedding tears upon tears because some folks will still be pointing out bugs, still asking for content to be more difficult than it can be to log in to the game, etc, etc, etc.
There's no doubt that STO is an extremely casual game - we've had how much power creep for content that's actually easier than it was 3+ years ago even without the power creep? And so there are folks that want more of a challenge to the PvE that have nothing to do with PvP.
Oddly enough, the room for that difference should exist with Elite difficulty - but oddly enough, folks think that they should be able to charge in there without a care and come out patting themselves on the back.
I absolutely agree... You quite often find the attitude in PvE'ers as well, and it's no less shameful in PvE than it is in PvP.
Here's the difference though: I see it EVERY time from at least 50% of the players in Every PvP match I go into... I see it maybe once a week in PvE.
It's pretty ignorant to think that the attitude is limited to PvPers.
This game could have no PvP in it...and there would still be certain members of the PvE community shedding tears upon tears because some folks will still be pointing out bugs, still asking for content to be more difficult than it can be to log in to the game, etc, etc, etc.
There's no doubt that STO is an extremely casual game - we've had how much power creep for content that's actually easier than it was 3+ years ago even without the power creep? And so there are folks that want more of a challenge to the PvE that have nothing to do with PvP.
Oddly enough, the room for that difference should exist with Elite difficulty - but oddly enough, folks think that they should be able to charge in there without a care and come out patting themselves on the back.
Perhaps if Cryptic/PWE would develop the game with a specific audience in mind (beyond "casual" gamers), they might just be able to find a consensus of opinion. As it is, these "appeal to as many players as possible" games lend themselves to having player bases composed of loud factions. PvP is one such faction in STO's community.
Oh so your sarcastic smarmy arrogant assuming attitude isn't a point? Sure thing.
I'll generally be the first to mention that I suck at this game. Sometimes others will get the jump on me, pointing out that I suck at this game first...but that just means I agree with them instead of them agreeing with me.
So arrogance? Not likely...how can somebody that acknowledges that they're horrible at the game be arrogant?
Is it perhaps you're fragile ego just can't handle what that means for you then?
Can't stand folks with oozing egos or fragile egos...meh.
He probably meant Lockbox ships (like the JHAF) and certain C-store consoles.
In a way multiple factors really are making PvP in STO highly undesired.
1) Attitudes (as mentioned above)
2) Gear Imbalance (pretty much what works in PvE doesn't in PvP, so that leads to disasters)
3) Maps (same maps after 4 years.......)
4) Experience (newcomers getting royally trounced by hardcore players.......not exactly good motivation)
5) Desire (some PvP for fun, some PvP for other reasons.
Really, it's far too late for Cryptic to do anything to save PvP in STO and best just walk away. Like I said prior, the only possible way STO's PvP might be revitalized is if they balance the system where newbs in common gear have a good chance of surviving), and create some Open PvP zones with some purpose (like the territorial control that people wanted years ago). But I don't see Cryptic putting anykind of effort like that, especially now that they officially given up the Federation / KDF fighting, which was the main focuses of the PvP in STO. So that's why better just close the door and never talk about it ever again. Especially when there are other F2P games that are specialized for PvP and where most of them went to.
I'll generally be the first to mention that I suck at this game. Sometimes others will get the jump on me, pointing out that I suck at this game first...but that just means I agree with them instead of them agreeing with me.
So arrogance? Not likely...how can somebody that acknowledges that they're horrible at the game be arrogant?
Is it perhaps you're fragile ego just can't handle what that means for you then?
I've accepted how bad I'm at the game - that I'm average on my best day. I know the content that's going to give me a hard time, the content that's going to be easy, the content that even though I can do it - there are others that could roll through it like they're putting on a magic show.
And besides, there was nothing assuming in what I posted. It was simply a case of laughing at some of the threads that actually took place with folks complaining that they had to chase down the targets instead of being able to farm them.
If you're fragile ego put you in a defensive state where you were no longer able to see things rationally...that's all on you.
You'd be one of the reasons that I might queue up for PvP once or twice a month - hit up Ker'rat once or twice a week or every two weeks...cause I just don't want the stigma...the stench...of what players like you mean, when in the end I'm basically just a PvE guy mucking about and having a blast - knowing what I can and can't do...not crying to Cryptic because I can't do something.
I absolutely agree... You quite often find the attitude in PvE'ers as well, and it's no less shameful in PvE than it is in PvP.
Here's the difference though: I see it EVERY time from at least 50% of the players in Every PvP match I go into... I see it maybe once a week in PvE.
I literally don't PvP that often - I think I've been in 6-7 queues so far this year, and Ker'rat might be a few times every couple of weeks - unless I'm testing something (wish the game had a target dummy system for things like that).
I see almost nothing said at all doing PvE queues. I can't remember the last time anybody said anything. In the various zones though, well - the Undine Space Battlezone's as bad as ESD most days and it's usually easier to switch tabs than to keep ignoring folks.
There's going to be trashtalking in PvP though...the taunting...can get folks upset. Upset...they won't fly as well. They lose their cool...boom. It's an ego thing...a weakness. Who cares what somebody says, eh? Meh...
The only person in my actual ignore list in game is a PvPer - I just can't stand his ego. There are folks that I despise, that aren't on that list...they don't ooze the ego like this guy does.
And that's generally the only two groups of folks that I can't stand in the game. The ego folks...and yes, I said two groups. Cause there are the ego folks that think they're God's gift to STO and there's the ego folks that think that they should be able to do everything.
Where's the humility? Where's the acceptance of what one can and can't do? Where's the "Hey, this might be too hard for me right now - but if I practice, gear up, get some advice..." etc, etc, etc thing going on instead of demanding that Cryptic makes everything doable by them?
Meh, I'm babbling now...but I tend to do that from time to time.
I guess I just tend to ignore most of what's said with what little's said in the game - and - smoke too much when things are said by either of those two ego groups...trying not to draw the ire of the mods.
Perhaps if Cryptic/PWE would develop the game with a specific audience in mind (beyond "casual" gamers), they might just be able to find a consensus of opinion. As it is, these "appeal to as many players as possible" games lend themselves to having player bases composed of loud factions. PvP is one such faction in STO's community.
See, I don't think they need to develop toward a specific audience - as much as define development and stick to their guns about it. Casual content, average content, advanced content, elite content, and so forth...and they could even do that over on the PvP side with casual and non-casual PvP. As long as there is the content for the different groups, and perhaps they feel like they have something to work toward...well, would there be much doubt that those left complaining are simply spoiled?
Not really...it was pretty reactionary. Weeks of other arguments that bled out into this one, where you probably got hit with things you didn't deserve. But like I said in my previous post, there are really two things that just irritate the Hell out of me (well, there's a third - but those two are the two I mostly come across)...
When the Elachi were first on Tribble for the LoR beta, I was excited...it was a challenge - it was fun. They got nerfed into the ground repeatedly...it ticked me off. The same happened with the Voth and Undine. Heck, even the Borg got buffed - forums flooded - Borg got nerfed.
The expectation that some folks have about what they should and shouldn't be able to do just blows my mind and irritates the Hell out of me.
I can accept that there's things I can't do - things I don't stand a chance in Hell of doing - things that maybe with some work I could do - and I can honestly sit there and look at them...and accept that. I don't have to run crying to Cryptic that something called Elite content might actually be difficult. That so many folks out there can't accept...just irritates the Hell out of me.
So yeah, when folks complained that the mobs were moving...it irritated the Hell out of me.
It makes me think of that episode of King of the Hill, where Hank's trying to take Bobby hunting - but it's not his thing. So he ends up taking him to one of those private reserve things, where they basically bait the deer with some food so they walk out and get shot. Hank and Bobby look at each other...realizing just how wrong it is...and they leave.
There are folks that are perfectly happy with that kind of PvE...there are folks that just feel it's wrong.
First of all, thread move. PvP topic belongs in PvP forum. As there is no PvP Rep as of yet, there's not a strong case for putting it in the Rep forum but that would have been another logical place for it.
Second of all, let the name-calling and all other forms of "Forum PvP" stop -- immediately.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
My experience as a well seasoned STF runner is that I currently hate the state of PvP. It needs a new twist to the queues.
I've participated a few times in the past, I just don't feel the game is particularly balanced to allow a wide range of setups to play PvP in its current state.
Though it can be interesting with a good setup, I feel its generally over too quick. There are no drawn out skirmishes between balanced players, its normally a few seconds between watching the incoming cannon fire and your death if you don't react.
I feel as mentioned a wide open battle zone, perhaps capturing starbases, is required.
General captures can be done for the FED or KDF but fleets could capture and bolster a starbase, allowing for a good fleet to hold a starbase for resources.
This would all have to be done ina sector of space where each starbase acted like the Undine sphere capture points.
Problem is we need an excuse to get the factions to fight.
If rewards for participating in PvP were increased, and I mean trying to win not AFK, what would be more enticing to PvP?
Say mark boxes, more Dilithium, lobi perhaps?
Tell us what rewards would get you to attempt to do daily PvP.
Easy: Drop the attitude... Well maybe not you (don't know you after all), but if you read the threads on these topics, the general response is that we don't like the attitudes of PvP'ers.
If rewards was the issue, it would have come up a LONG time ago.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
The attitude will never go away, of course. It's something that seems inherent in PvP.
WHen you play an Elite STF today - there is practically no communication going on. Everyone knows what to do anyway, and heck, eve if they don't know, there may be someone that could carry a whole group of noobs, but usually there are multiples that know what to do, and unless someone tries to actively sabotage things, everything will work out.
So there is almost no need to actually deal with other people. You don't need to deal with anyone's attitude. (Not anymore, at least. When the "Optionals" actually were hard to get, you could definitely get people starting to berate other people for bad play and what not.)
But PvP always has that. You must coordinate, or you lose to the better coordinated team. So even within the team on the same side, there will be people that turn out to be ...ahem... donkey-vacuums. People that think they know best even if the don'T, or if they do, believe that people that don't know the same are dumb and incompetent and deserve berating.
On top of that, you have the fact that the two sides in a PvP match actually are opposed to each other -that will also lead to talk. Some of it for purely psychological reasons - an eneemy that lets himself be provoked is more likely to make bad decisions.
And then you have that in PvP, you are actually expected to lose. Not all the time, but under ideal "fair" circumstnaces, at least half the time. And that puts some additional stress on people - it's not just missing an optional (and we all have experienced people that get angry when that happens, right?), it's losing the whole match.
The attitudes may be bad, but the fact that coordination is so important, it becomes also much more interesting to talk with others and exchange thoughts. It's IMO often a lot richer.
It can also be more work, of course - one of the reasons I am currently not actively playing PvP (besides all the balance issues), because I am really more in the mood for the casual stuff, even if there are no real challenges. I am just glad to advance my reputations these days - 2 years of absence and 10 characters or os means a lot of catching up.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Comments
Kind of reminds me of the complaints about Spheres and EPtE. Sure it was a little silly how they blindly zipped around and would get stuck...but all the complaints that targets were moving were a trip.
"Dear Cryptic,
You've made my targets move. Now I am required to chase them. This is not very fun. Please have my targets return to sitting still so I can destroy them.
Thank you,
...Joe Random"
Case and point.
Meh, yeah...they tried to do that whole...
Galaxy = Defiant = Intrepid
...thing, and well - it went downhill from there, eh?
No case. No point.
Not every PvE player pats themselves on the back for lobbing satchels of grenades into a barrel of goldfish...
IMO, it would even be interesting to see Fleets compete in STF's or PvE's, with some accolades/rewards linked in a different way than currently available. Elapsed time, number of optional objectives completed, etc., could be scoring controls for this "intramural" competition.
Either way, I can empathize with the overall sentiment that the end-game players should have something more interesting and open-ended, if only as a reward for the long years of devotion to the game!
Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci
Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac
Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
Newsflash for you OP... Everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE I've spoken to about why they don't PvP, is because of the childish, stupid attitudes PvP'ers have.
They are arrogant, they think that whatever they believe should be changed about the game is right because they think THEY are the authority on what everyone should think is fun.
The same goes for me.
And you pretty much proved the point in the highlighted part of the quote.
How arrogant is it to assume that people don't want to learn, just because they don't PvP... It's actually to avoid your attitude...
Until that attitude goes away, PvP can (and should) be removed from the game for all I care.
Oh so your sarcastic smarmy arrogant assuming attitude isn't a point? Sure thing.
This is at least true for me. I can't stand PvP because of the childish attitudes; too much senseless ego-thumping involved.
They have a min/maxer flavor of the month mentality, as if stacking the most broken sets of skills on the most expensive lock box/lobi high dps stacked ships should be the norm, and anything less is uncivilized.
AND... I might want to point out that I was being polite... The first version of the post might have caught me a ban, just for being honest.
It's pretty ignorant to think that the attitude is limited to PvPers.
This game could have no PvP in it...and there would still be certain members of the PvE community shedding tears upon tears because some folks will still be pointing out bugs, still asking for content to be more difficult than it can be to log in to the game, etc, etc, etc.
There's no doubt that STO is an extremely casual game - we've had how much power creep for content that's actually easier than it was 3+ years ago even without the power creep? And so there are folks that want more of a challenge to the PvE that have nothing to do with PvP.
Oddly enough, the room for that difference should exist with Elite difficulty - but oddly enough, folks think that they should be able to charge in there without a care and come out patting themselves on the back.
What you are saying is truth, I hardly call that a bannable offense.
I absolutely agree... You quite often find the attitude in PvE'ers as well, and it's no less shameful in PvE than it is in PvP.
Here's the difference though: I see it EVERY time from at least 50% of the players in Every PvP match I go into... I see it maybe once a week in PvE.
The language my freind... The language would have gotten me banned.
I had to restrain myself quite a lot to turn it into what you saw in my OP.
Perhaps if Cryptic/PWE would develop the game with a specific audience in mind (beyond "casual" gamers), they might just be able to find a consensus of opinion. As it is, these "appeal to as many players as possible" games lend themselves to having player bases composed of loud factions. PvP is one such faction in STO's community.
I'll generally be the first to mention that I suck at this game. Sometimes others will get the jump on me, pointing out that I suck at this game first...but that just means I agree with them instead of them agreeing with me.
So arrogance? Not likely...how can somebody that acknowledges that they're horrible at the game be arrogant?
Is it perhaps you're fragile ego just can't handle what that means for you then?
Can't stand folks with oozing egos or fragile egos...meh.
Wait what?
Where does this come from?
In a way multiple factors really are making PvP in STO highly undesired.
1) Attitudes (as mentioned above)
2) Gear Imbalance (pretty much what works in PvE doesn't in PvP, so that leads to disasters)
3) Maps (same maps after 4 years.......)
4) Experience (newcomers getting royally trounced by hardcore players.......not exactly good motivation)
5) Desire (some PvP for fun, some PvP for other reasons.
Really, it's far too late for Cryptic to do anything to save PvP in STO and best just walk away. Like I said prior, the only possible way STO's PvP might be revitalized is if they balance the system where newbs in common gear have a good chance of surviving), and create some Open PvP zones with some purpose (like the territorial control that people wanted years ago). But I don't see Cryptic putting anykind of effort like that, especially now that they officially given up the Federation / KDF fighting, which was the main focuses of the PvP in STO. So that's why better just close the door and never talk about it ever again. Especially when there are other F2P games that are specialized for PvP and where most of them went to.
Do you feel better now?
Probably...
Well I think most PvP'ers will agree with me, that gear is not always the determining factor.
I literally don't PvP that often - I think I've been in 6-7 queues so far this year, and Ker'rat might be a few times every couple of weeks - unless I'm testing something (wish the game had a target dummy system for things like that).
I see almost nothing said at all doing PvE queues. I can't remember the last time anybody said anything. In the various zones though, well - the Undine Space Battlezone's as bad as ESD most days and it's usually easier to switch tabs than to keep ignoring folks.
There's going to be trashtalking in PvP though...the taunting...can get folks upset. Upset...they won't fly as well. They lose their cool...boom. It's an ego thing...a weakness. Who cares what somebody says, eh? Meh...
The only person in my actual ignore list in game is a PvPer - I just can't stand his ego. There are folks that I despise, that aren't on that list...they don't ooze the ego like this guy does.
And that's generally the only two groups of folks that I can't stand in the game. The ego folks...and yes, I said two groups. Cause there are the ego folks that think they're God's gift to STO and there's the ego folks that think that they should be able to do everything.
Where's the humility? Where's the acceptance of what one can and can't do? Where's the "Hey, this might be too hard for me right now - but if I practice, gear up, get some advice..." etc, etc, etc thing going on instead of demanding that Cryptic makes everything doable by them?
Meh, I'm babbling now...but I tend to do that from time to time.
I guess I just tend to ignore most of what's said with what little's said in the game - and - smoke too much when things are said by either of those two ego groups...trying not to draw the ire of the mods.
See, I don't think they need to develop toward a specific audience - as much as define development and stick to their guns about it. Casual content, average content, advanced content, elite content, and so forth...and they could even do that over on the PvP side with casual and non-casual PvP. As long as there is the content for the different groups, and perhaps they feel like they have something to work toward...well, would there be much doubt that those left complaining are simply spoiled?
plus doffs, accX3 weapons, romulan boffs, and maybe some more things
Not really...it was pretty reactionary. Weeks of other arguments that bled out into this one, where you probably got hit with things you didn't deserve. But like I said in my previous post, there are really two things that just irritate the Hell out of me (well, there's a third - but those two are the two I mostly come across)...
When the Elachi were first on Tribble for the LoR beta, I was excited...it was a challenge - it was fun. They got nerfed into the ground repeatedly...it ticked me off. The same happened with the Voth and Undine. Heck, even the Borg got buffed - forums flooded - Borg got nerfed.
The expectation that some folks have about what they should and shouldn't be able to do just blows my mind and irritates the Hell out of me.
I can accept that there's things I can't do - things I don't stand a chance in Hell of doing - things that maybe with some work I could do - and I can honestly sit there and look at them...and accept that. I don't have to run crying to Cryptic that something called Elite content might actually be difficult. That so many folks out there can't accept...just irritates the Hell out of me.
So yeah, when folks complained that the mobs were moving...it irritated the Hell out of me.
It makes me think of that episode of King of the Hill, where Hank's trying to take Bobby hunting - but it's not his thing. So he ends up taking him to one of those private reserve things, where they basically bait the deer with some food so they walk out and get shot. Hank and Bobby look at each other...realizing just how wrong it is...and they leave.
There are folks that are perfectly happy with that kind of PvE...there are folks that just feel it's wrong.
Second of all, let the name-calling and all other forms of "Forum PvP" stop -- immediately.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I've participated a few times in the past, I just don't feel the game is particularly balanced to allow a wide range of setups to play PvP in its current state.
Though it can be interesting with a good setup, I feel its generally over too quick. There are no drawn out skirmishes between balanced players, its normally a few seconds between watching the incoming cannon fire and your death if you don't react.
I feel as mentioned a wide open battle zone, perhaps capturing starbases, is required.
General captures can be done for the FED or KDF but fleets could capture and bolster a starbase, allowing for a good fleet to hold a starbase for resources.
This would all have to be done ina sector of space where each starbase acted like the Undine sphere capture points.
Problem is we need an excuse to get the factions to fight.
I suppose the limit of what people find acceptable work for stuff varies, but I find nothing hard or expensive about these things?
But I suppose you have a valid point.
Easy: Drop the attitude... Well maybe not you (don't know you after all), but if you read the threads on these topics, the general response is that we don't like the attitudes of PvP'ers.
If rewards was the issue, it would have come up a LONG time ago.
WHen you play an Elite STF today - there is practically no communication going on. Everyone knows what to do anyway, and heck, eve if they don't know, there may be someone that could carry a whole group of noobs, but usually there are multiples that know what to do, and unless someone tries to actively sabotage things, everything will work out.
So there is almost no need to actually deal with other people. You don't need to deal with anyone's attitude. (Not anymore, at least. When the "Optionals" actually were hard to get, you could definitely get people starting to berate other people for bad play and what not.)
But PvP always has that. You must coordinate, or you lose to the better coordinated team. So even within the team on the same side, there will be people that turn out to be ...ahem... donkey-vacuums. People that think they know best even if the don'T, or if they do, believe that people that don't know the same are dumb and incompetent and deserve berating.
On top of that, you have the fact that the two sides in a PvP match actually are opposed to each other -that will also lead to talk. Some of it for purely psychological reasons - an eneemy that lets himself be provoked is more likely to make bad decisions.
And then you have that in PvP, you are actually expected to lose. Not all the time, but under ideal "fair" circumstnaces, at least half the time. And that puts some additional stress on people - it's not just missing an optional (and we all have experienced people that get angry when that happens, right?), it's losing the whole match.
The attitudes may be bad, but the fact that coordination is so important, it becomes also much more interesting to talk with others and exchange thoughts. It's IMO often a lot richer.
It can also be more work, of course - one of the reasons I am currently not actively playing PvP (besides all the balance issues), because I am really more in the mood for the casual stuff, even if there are no real challenges. I am just glad to advance my reputations these days - 2 years of absence and 10 characters or os means a lot of catching up.