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PvP should have a reputation system.
riccardo171
Member Posts: 1,802 Arc User
Let's face it. Most people don't PvP because they don't want to learn. In my opinion, PvP needs a reputation system. With Federation and KDF not at war anymore and a fearsome threat like Undine and Iconians, it makes sense for Lore for something like "Advanced Starfleet/KDF/Romulan Combat Training" to improve their captains' skills. Ran by either Starfleet or Klingon Academy which will provide new equipment, weapons and consoles exclusively obtainable by playing PvP-related content; a new holding for your fleet as central command.
A "holodeck" randomly teamed persistent battlezone with points to capture; each one awarding marks and dilithium.
Won PvP matches will reward a medal (you know, VR Elite items like BNPs, Implants) to use in MK XII projects.
Space and ground will help each other, like capturing a space point will help ground to advance in their goal.
It should work like any other reputation, you fight in PvP (and being afk will get you temporarily banned from queues) and get PvP marks, which you can use for both obtaining gear, running projects or turn them for dilithium.
Reputation will be account wide for progression (you're a PvPer, alts won't make you any different). Anyway, you will still need to buy the gear you want per character.
After all, STO PvP is team-based. Kirking it alone is the best way to get killed. It would be something different than the usual NPCs and PvE queues. Combating real people is far more rewarding for you, my 2 cents.
A "holodeck" randomly teamed persistent battlezone with points to capture; each one awarding marks and dilithium.
Won PvP matches will reward a medal (you know, VR Elite items like BNPs, Implants) to use in MK XII projects.
Space and ground will help each other, like capturing a space point will help ground to advance in their goal.
It should work like any other reputation, you fight in PvP (and being afk will get you temporarily banned from queues) and get PvP marks, which you can use for both obtaining gear, running projects or turn them for dilithium.
Reputation will be account wide for progression (you're a PvPer, alts won't make you any different). Anyway, you will still need to buy the gear you want per character.
After all, STO PvP is team-based. Kirking it alone is the best way to get killed. It would be something different than the usual NPCs and PvE queues. Combating real people is far more rewarding for you, my 2 cents.
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Yeah, I don't think that's the reason most folks don't PvP...
So you'd be giving folks even more reason not to PvP?
What's up with threads today ignoring the issues that previous games have had with PvP after implementing things like this (and the one about rewards)...?
Is it some heinous plot to kill off PvP in STO?
Just because a player might have a clue how to fly X ship doesn't mean they've got a clue how to fly Y ship...until they've actually demonstrated that they've got that clue on how to fly Y ship.
PvP is replayable. PvE is repeatable. Some folks prefer replayable. Some folks prefer repeatable. You can see this any time an attempt is made to make PvE replayable...folks flood the forums with complaints.
Nope.
I imagine it's way more to do with imbalance, no persistent stats and the attitude of some Pvpers.
Nothing is easy at first. It's not like that you start playing BF4 Multiplayer and it's game's fault if you can't aim or get snipered. If you don't know how to fly a sci, don't fly a sci. You want to use only a tactical, use tactical. Engineers are boring? don't use them. Point of having progression account-wide is to not force you to a career at first. Mind you, I fly only as a tac because I like doing the heavy hitter. If a ship is "hey, I don't like X ship, I'm more for Y". Fly Y.
You don't want to do the rep? Don't. I'm not running Undine one beyond T2.
I can't see your point here...
I agree with PvE being repeatable. NPCs can't have enough intelligence to outsmart you. I don't feel like doing PvE anymore if not with fleet, the more unique than rare times we do. They used to supercharge their weapons in Mirror Event, but that's no intelligence.
PvP is always different. There isn't a match same as the other.
About why Players don't PvP... well that's my idea, you're free to not agree with me of course.
It's a waste of time and it wouldn't encourage people to play PvP for the sake of PvP, they would only be playing for the Reputation and it's bonuses. We saw it in the past when they did Marks and Emblems.
If you want to encourage people to PvP again, 2 words - Open PvP.
I like to amend that with the word "battle zone" or "sector block". As in, a large region of STO where it is open pvp. But everywhere else is safe for me to park my ship or fly it somewhere while I go get a drink or watch a movie.
(UFP) Ragnar
Obviously that's because I don't want to learn, you know, after playing Eve, BF3, Age of Conan on a pvp server (but that was a long time ago), etc...
I'm sure a reputation grind will make it better !
That's missing the point - that's not about what a person want's to do, but rather about what a person can do. Having it account wide assumes that a person is equally good at something account wide when that is likely not to be the case outside of certain folks.
A person that's spend 2-3 years flying a Tac Escort that creates an alt...say a Sci Recluse...on day one you're saying that the PvP Rep should treat them as if they've been flying that Sci Recuse for years? That's the point...
If it were a case of unlocking competencies based on certain combinations, should somebody roll an alt that involved one of those said competencies - that would be one thing...the guy that's been running a Vesta might not know how to fly the Fleet HoH'SuS though - why assume they can?
8472 gives you an advantage while fighting the Undine. PvP Rep would give you an advantage in PvP. Anybody not running the PvP Rep would be at a disadvantage. Anybody that comes along new would be at a disadvantage until they caught up in the Rep. Additional reasons for folks not to bother...unless they just want to lose their way to having a chance possibly somewhere down the road (where those folks often don't realize that by practicing losing, they get pretty good at it)...
To be honest, er, I've got idea what this was in reply to...
PvP's not always different, but it at least has that chance to be different. PvE's learn a dance, do the dance, do it again - meh. PvP's learn how to dance rather than learn a dance. Sure, the PvE folks that figure out the dances in the first place need to know how to dance - but all the folks that come after them, they just need to learn that particular dance and that's that. Some might want more, but the majority are content just to learn the few steps needed...
PvP can be extremely dynamic when faced with competent foes. At the same time, it can be no more dynamic than PvE as well depending on the guys and gals you're facing...meh.
People don't do things for a plethora of reasons...the forums are riddled with reasons why folks don't want to PvP. I wouldn't stereotype them all, lump them in together, saying they just don't want to learn...stereotypes get tossed around way too much.
Agreed. Instead of trying to make value judgements on the worth of certain activiites or its participants, focus on the stuff that's actual conductive to constructive discussion.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Firstly, it happens after pvp is revamped. At a bare minimum a persistent stats system, and a robust and flexible match maker.
Preferably, some major rebalancing of lobi and cstore items.
Secondly, it's rewards are either cosmetic or qol. No damage, resistance or healing buffs.
Perhaps unique ship skins, costume pieces or inventory slots. That sort of thing.
The idea of putting some reward for PVPers has merit, but that is a very delicate, fine line that's easily crossed from "making the cost of entry that much higher for PVP."
It is already tough enough for an established STO player to try PVP. The skill gap and pace of PVP will be a lot to handle and as all of us PVPers know, when you're new, you just get crushed until you get better. And that's if you're an established player that has fancy gear from the reps you've mastered and got some cool gear that you used for PVE.
But you throw in PVP-specific gear, it's going to get ridiculous. From past MMO's I have tried that put in PVP gear, they tend to be VERY strong and absolutely dedicated for shredding players. That makes the cost of entry higher for new PVPers if they can't take good gear that they've been playinig and at least have that cushion going for them.
And then you have these guys: Brand new STO players who do want to PVP, have not gotten their T5 Reps much less any good full space sets. And let's not even talk about them facing established STO PVPers who are now flying around in "PVP Gear." All this before you start even thinking about their skills as a brand new PVPer when they are already completely left behind in gear with no hope of getting there for a long time.
If you want to marginalize PVP in STO even more than it already is, go ahead and have PVP gear. That will start the shoveling to cover up the coffin that PVP already is in.
Making the cost of entry higher to PVP is everything you want to avoid. Encouraging players to join in while not leaving them so far behind for new PVPers needs to happen. PVP needs new blood. This idea will not help.
I agree. Bioware did this with TOR and it was a disaster. Inexperienced and casual pvpers suffered greatly against veterans and hardcore players, that they were forced to make newbie armor, but that didn't help at all.
The only way I could see it working in STO is if they followed along the lines of Everquest's PvP (well the early years) where players preferred armor very high in resists for PvP than armor with stat boots that was better for PvE. So for STO, I could see it similarly where PvP armor is very high in resists, but it also would come with high negative effects like taking away from favored stats like accuracy and criticals. So new players would have a much greater survival rate.
Players need to be ranked. High ranks can not be matched against low level
A team that's beginning to lose horribly begin to receive "buffs" to even the odds
Incentive to play, players that haven't played in a while or at all get a bonus on the first few goes. Account bonus to prevent exploiting.
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Having a pvp rep would not entice me to pvp again. Honestly it might entice me to leave STO as it would mean yet another season that does not interest me.
That said, IF it where to be implemented the rewards should be purely cosmetic. Otherwise it would just introduce too many problems.
I dont think so. LOL
I dont do pvp cuz it is a waste of time. Period. And its not funny. Period. I already wasted too many weeks doing pvp, and i really regret it.
Anyway, current gear "thought for shredding players" come from PvE and sometimes C-Store. You really don't need Lobi consoles or paid ships to win in PvP. Adding a couple of sets to a reputation that is a bit higher to achieve... you can live without it. Can't afford a tachyokinetic converter? Buy an Enhanced RCS seriously. A Patrol instead of a JHAS. Acc x2 CrtH weapons instead of Acc x3.
In the case of a PvP rep we will need a matchmaking system of course. Of course rewards should be given to everyone in the same amount for participating, only difference is in VR items for gear where you need to score a win. Even in the case, I don't think you won't be able to even win some, and a matchmaking system will adjust imbalance anyway. Such reputation should not stomp those who fail and those who win. You tried, here's your reward, next time you'll do better. Enjoy.
I really don't complain at all for PvP. I'm not really cool with some powers, like FBP, but I get around it. First time I did PvP was with a RA Sovereign. It got murdered in 5 seconds by a JHAS and I was like "whoah, how did he...". I started to learn about TT, binds, ship types, consoles, boff and captain powers I ignored. Bought a Fleet Defiant (lol, such a bad ship to start). Learned about OPVP, joined it, now I talk (too much :P ) in it, made a lot of friends and have great fun nights.
All of those who failed PvP I met had a thing in common. They didn't want to listen. "I did a match and never tried again". Well, wow.
I'm not pretending to be perfectly right and all of you are wrong, keep this in mind. I'm only expressing my opinion as you're doing and many gave constructive feedback. (Not like the one above this reply).
no...just no. Bad idea all the way around.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
*hands Rinkster a giant cookie* Ding ding. We have a winner.
These are all useless in pvp.
Odyssey Star Cruiser:
- Operations - Science - Tactical
Exploration Cruiser Retrofit
Assault Cruiser Refit
Heavy Cruiser Retrofit
- Fleet
Fleet Star Cruiser
Fleet Advanced Heavy Cruiser Retrofit
Fleet Support Cruiser Retrofit
Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit
Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit
Odyssey Star Cruiser
They are too slow, and have no offensive threatening capability.
I have not included a list of the KDF or ROM cruisers, but they are also largely useless.
Second point is science ships that aren't Vesta or from a Temporal lock box have extremely low speed and survivability.
On top of that if you are not running a drain build as science you are useless, because all other debuffs are extremely easy to remove or avoid, there is no sense of dread or fear from any other style of build from science starship.
Finally, I think the worst offender by far in this game is escorts, they get the best of everything in the game, they simply do everything better, they can keep guns on target so much easier then any heavy ships with none of the penalties that heavier ships have to endure with having to choose targeting arcs, and escorts have near 100% skill uptime with no penalties to power cycling, and they perform far better then larger ships in speed and maneuverability. Escorts can fly out of enemy targeting arcs far easier, and despite this they are also granted even higher defense from moving faster which is a double bonus over slower moving larger ships, which makes no sense as some of these ships are able to take advantage of console abilities and more to ride the backs of their targets with virtually no penalty.
I have the best stuff in the game on my ship (Scimitar) when dropping a complete volley against a moving light escort which they remain virtually unscathed, due to the fact they can keep up a higher defense rating then ships 20x their size, its pretty ridiculous.
R.I.P
So a ship going way faster should be as easy to hit as a slow moving leviathan? Right, I am failing to see the logic here.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
LOL he's playing too much STF and thinking that players would just sit there and let him hit them as those gates lol.
Evidently. Armor, power, and damage should be in the favor of the larger ships category. But things do not work that way in the game. Smaller ships should have medium damage high evasion, low defense. NOT high damage high evasion high defense