Sensor scan is innate. Higher the skill the better you can spot cloakers in cloak.
I say no unless your innate detection sweep has a standard cloak cooldown and is like standard cloak in that is not usable during combat.
A sensor scan is passive.. a sensor sweep would be a active scan.. totally different. Kind of like passive sonar vs active sonar thats pinging for a target.
You are not some military history student... I NEVER said i was a military history student. I said, "i am a student of war" one needs not study a subject in a classroom to be a student of it. I did four years in the US Marines so i might have a grasp of warfare. if you were then you would of never ever ever said that about defense. I was qouting Sun Tzu. HE SAID IT. and if you are about to criticize the works of Sun Tzu you would only display great ignorance. Military history has shown that no defense can not be over come. No This is FAR from the case. there are plenty of historical point which show that defense can keep you alive. you heed to understand that killing your enemy is not the only way to win and at times simply surviving is a win because THAT was your goal. In war you are NEVER always on the attack. Even Ghengis Khan wasnt ALWAYS on the attack and he employed blitz like tactics using the speed of his horses. While there are times when a good defense IS a good offense, BUT even that still falls under DENFENSE and using speed to keep you alive during an engagement. More so that adopting a siege mentality dooms the defenders. That Offensive operation are a must when defending. You are WRONG. if you are carring out a seige, you are on the OFFENSE. Allow me to educate you. Siege. As you can see, If you are carring out a seige, you are attacking. OFFENSE. To prove my point i will bring up again, the vietnam war. In that "Military Action"(Us the Senate never declared "war" and thus it was not an actual war.)the US forces were usually on the offensive. But we constantly took HEAVY losses. why? Well there are a number of reasons, but when looking at the big picture of the "war" one can see that through carefully apllied sneak attacks(like one would do with a cloak) and using the terrain to aid in tactics, INCLUDING defense, the vietnam forces fought a battle which forced the US to use up resources while they used up very little. They fought a defensive war of attrition. THAT is why they won. their DEFENSE. Now, while it could be said due to "other issues" we were NEVVER meant to win, THAT is another debate in and of itself.
You claim Feds defense is what they do so there fine then in same paragraph contradict your self with saying the dps is so high in negates that defense. Please point out my contradiction. I believe you mistook my meaning. Guess what... that means that 5% hull is not compensation enough.. thank you for proving my point. Practical Application CANNOT be ignored here. to ships, nearly identical can be compared to prove my point here. Avenger vs. mogh. I have fleet versions of both and i can then you now, with IDENTICAL gear, the Avenger servives longer. PERIOD. the FED ship. now. if both ships are using the same gear, then perhaps you can show why this is the case. While i DO know why, i would love to hear your thoughts on the matter. I can always use a laugh.
Oh your comments on the whole Klingon are warriors.. here is a little secret.. the KDF are not all Klingons... ya I know its a shocker.. If the Klingons are only warriors.. who is designing there new ships? Who is upgrading there tech? As warriors if they see a advantage of a enemy they would use it. If sci ships support there fleet to that victory they would build them.
KDF. what does the "K" stand for again? OF COURSE in a society there MUST be more than just warriors. that goes without saying, but the over all goal of that society is WARFARE. so the engineering design and build things to FIGHT. The designers think up things to FIGHT to KILL. they dont study the prey, their enemies. they SHOOT them and they die. They only thing the Klingons have even used to handle other problems is FIREPOWER. they augment virus killing millions, and must be stopped? scorch the planet. Burn them all. THAT was their plan. then FED are studying some ancient something? Can it be used as a weapon? Killing them, take it and we will find out. I remember a few time in show where THAT was the plan. Their holy relic is a sword! Sure they have engineering.....and scientist.....that study and design think THAT KILL. and sure, there are more than just Klingons in the KDF, but oit is a KLINGON EMPIRE. not a red federation. if you cant see that then you need to watch more star trek.
Romulan plasma is NOT Elite fleet level....
According to the number of mods and procs, IT IS.
You didn't even understand the part about the console slots.. you jump to some conclusion with out really reading the post... let me explain it again very simply... you are still subject to the limited number of tac/eng and sci slots... they are all not universal.. just the rank of each slot is not predetermined.
I have not once siad the lost of a console for a cloak is ok. i made a KDF toon, and bought a fleet mogh for the sole purpose of testing out this very concept. you know what ive found? while sure, i can do A BIT more than the avenger gear wise, the Avenger with a cloak is no less combat effective and that is the point here.
oh you know what.. your worthless to discuses this with... you are so bias and so scared of change you can not be in any way open mined.. go troll somewhere else.
And so we resort to being more combative. Fine, ill play that game. YOU state all this TRIBBLE when the FACT is, most players feel the Avenger is fine, WITH OR WITHOUT the cloak. the FACT is, if you have toons in all factions, then WHAT IS THE DEAL. either way you can play the way you want. You have a rom, a kilnk, and a fed. in fact, MORE THAN ONE OF EACH. i only have 3 toons and THEY ARE ALL TACTICAL and i still have found ways to be combat effective in EVERY TYPE OF SHIP. You either arent trying to play, arent trying to think or.....i dont even know. You complain about fed ships wasting a console slot for a cloak but guess what, SO HAVE A BUNCH OF OTHER PEOPLE!!!!!!!!! the devs have not once said they are thinking of changing it and people do FINE with it the way it is WE accept it and move on. the bottomline is, this is a game. you PLAY it. You have fun. you accept it for what it is.
Now, i am DONE arguing with you. if you see two people arguing you cant tell who the fool is. Ill just shut up. youre not worth the effort.
GET OVER IT.
I irks me that you get combative when i make a point but i will make some more....see red.
You dont want feds to give up a console slot to cloak. you dont want feds to give up a console slot to detect cloaks. FINE. lets play that game.
Why give up a console slot for the VATA? the assimilators? The repair console? the big yellow shield thing? the antimatter spread? the black goo? the yellow goo? the GalX lance? the grumba Lance? the MVAM? the valdore console? the leech? The autocannon?
I got it! lets just make ALL the universal consoles a one time buy for your toon to make them a clickable power and NOT a console so you can have your "super easy" button!
-_-
No...that too broken...
I GOT IT!
we will make ALL universal consoles, DEVICES!!!!! that way we can stack more OP powers!!!!
yo dawg i heard you like powercreep, so we put some powercreep in your powercreep so you can power while you creep.
I irks me that you get combative when i make a point but i will make some more....see red.
You just made your self look pretty big foolish....
Let me educate you on what Sun Tzu said.. the full quote: Invincibility lies in the defense the possibility of victory in the attack. One defends when his strength is inadequate he attacks when it is abundant
he never said that you are invincible in defense. It ties in to the greater art of war.
Therefore the clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him'
holding out advantages to him, he can cause the enemy to approach of his own accord; or, by inflicting damage, he can make it impossible for the enemy to draw near
If the enemy is taking his ease, he can harass him;if well supplied with food, he can starve him out; if quietly encamped, he can force him to move
Hence that general is skillful in attack whose opponent does not know what to defend; and he is skillful in defense whose opponent does not know what to attack.
O divine art of subtlety and secrecy! Through you we learn to be invisible, through you inaudible;
and hence we can hold the enemy's fate in our hands
The spot where we intend to fight must not be made known; for then the enemy will have to prepare against a possible attack at several different points; and his forces being thus distributed in many directions, the numbers we shall have to face at any given point will be proportionately few
For should the enemy strengthen his van, he will weaken his rear; should he strengthen his rear, he will weaken his van; should he strengthen his left, he will weaken his right; should he strengthen his right, he will weaken his left. If he sends reinforcements everywhere, he will everywhere be weak
Do you understand what he is saying.. I mean really do you comprehend it?
I can not believe you brought up the Vietnam war.. we took very minor loss vs the VC and the North Vietnam army. The VC lost over 50,000 the NVA lost between 1.1 million to 950,000 men the US lost just over 58,000 KIA. That's a 17 to 1 KDR in favor of the US. The US did not lose any major battles in the Vietnam War. The US lost do to at home politics. Ho Chi Minh was going to sue for peace after the disaster of Tet offensive. it was only do to Amercian politics at home that convinced him that he would not be able to win a conventional war.. he could win in the world political stage. Also the NVA was on the offensive multiple times and each time were defeated by counter attacks by US forces. Please get your history right.. you see I was a political / military history major.
AS far as Klingon Empire.. go watch Enterprise again.. it talks about the other aspects of Klingon empire.. not just the warriors part.
Romulan rep weapons are not fleet and they do not have the same number of procs... Romulan rep are 3 proc weapons plasma plus disruptor effect + two more and elite fleet are 4 proc such as disruptors with +shield damage effect + 3 more... just wow unless you mistakenly counted the plasma burn as a proc lol
The problem is Chrisbrown you scream fact when you do not have any..
You just made your self look pretty big foolish....
Let me educate you on what Sun Tzu said.. the full quote: Invincibility lies in the defense the possibility of victory in the attack. One defends when his strength is inadequate he attacks when it is abundant
The blue is the point youre missing when considering the FEDS. KDF ships usually have a higher DPS, more strength.....thus FED strenght is FED ships is NOT abundant, thusm FED defend....NOT ATTACK. also, the federation in show rarely attackd others. I quoted the realivant part of what sun tzu said. you simply qouted all of it AND THEN misunderstood.
he never said that you are invincible in defense. It ties in to the greater art of war.
Therefore the clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him'
holding out advantages to him, he can cause the enemy to approach of his own accord; or, by inflicting damage, he can make it impossible for the enemy to draw near
FED advantage does NOT lay in attack.
If the enemy is taking his ease, he can harass him;if well supplied with food, he can starve him out; if quietly encamped, he can force him to move
Hence that general is skillful in attack whose opponent does not know what to defend; and he is skillful in defense whose opponent does not know what to attack.
O divine art of subtlety and secrecy! Through you we learn to be invisible, through you inaudible;
and hence we can hold the enemy's fate in our hands
The spot where we intend to fight must not be made known; for then the enemy will have to prepare against a possible attack at several different points; and his forces being thus distributed in many directions, the numbers we shall have to face at any given point will be proportionately few
For should the enemy strengthen his van, he will weaken his rear; should he strengthen his rear, he will weaken his van; should he strengthen his left, he will weaken his right; should he strengthen his right, he will weaken his left. If he sends reinforcements everywhere, he will everywhere be weak
Do you understand what he is saying.. I mean really do you comprehend it?
DO you? The meaning hear is to USE WHAT YOU HAVE to win. You are just spouting Sun Tzu without really applying it. FED ship, by your own admission, are weaker DPS wise than their KDF counterparts. This is true and ive not said otherwise however, FED strenght lays in their TANKING, their defense. It is a fool who ignores their strengths in battle. You Say the added hull is not a good counter to cloak, and if it was JUST that added hull you would be correct. IT is not just that added hull, there are other thing which aid in defense, which is why others and myself have brought up BOFFS and gear.
I can not believe you brought up the Vietnam war.. we took very minor loss vs the VC and the North Vietnam army. The VC lost over 50,000 the NVA lost between 1.1 million to 950,000 men the US lost just over 58,000 KIA. That's a 17 to 1 KDR in favor of the US. The US did not lose any major battles in the Vietnam War. The US lost do to at home politics. Ho Chi Minh was going to sue for peace after the disaster of Tet offensive. it was only do to Amercian politics at home that convinced him that he would not be able to win a conventional war.. he could win in the world political stage. Also the NVA was on the offensive multiple times and each time were defeated by counter attacks by US forces. Please get your history right.. you see I was a political / military history major.
Again, one cannot count the deaths of enemies to measure victory. the US goals were not met. THATS how we lost. they KNEW they count not beat the US in a straight fight. that is why the tactics used were what they were. it why they attacked the moral ground of fight the war. it is why they fought using sneak attacks and the like. Sun Tzu himself would have praised the way the viet fought.
AS far as Klingon Empire.. go watch Enterprise again.. it talks about the other aspects of Klingon empire.. not just the warriors part.
One, Enterprise is a poor refernce considering how they rewrote Star Trek History to suit their needs. Two, even those other aspects work to advance the ability to wage war. THAT was my point.
Romulan rep weapons are not fleet and they do not have the same number of procs... Romulan rep are 3 proc weapons plasma plus disruptor effect + two more and elite fleet are 4 proc such as disruptors with +shield damage effect + 3 more... just wow unless you mistakenly counted the plasma burn as a proc lol
the plasma burn IS a proc.....how is it not?
The problem is Chrisbrown you scream fact when you do not have any..
See red. I again see this is going no where......you know, i would be interested to fight you 1v1, just to try to understand you through how you fight. Just to see if you could kill me.
A sensor scan is passive.. a sensor sweep would be a active scan.. totally different. Kind of like passive sonar vs active sonar thats pinging for a target.
Still answers your question of "how many are innate". Active or Passive was not in your question.
you said: "But we constantly took HEAVY losses. why? Well there are a number of reasons, but when looking at the big picture of the "war" one can see that through carefully apllied sneak attacks(like one would do with a cloak) and using the terrain to aid in tactics, INCLUDING defense, the vietnam forces fought a battle which forced the US to use up resources while they used up very little. They fought a defensive war of attrition. THAT is why they won. their DEFENSE."
then come back causality's don't matter /facepalm
Ah yes.. thee lets throw out something that's canon cause you don't agree with it argument
... /clap clap clap
The plasma proc is part of the plasma base damage..
Elite fleet Disruptors do there damage and -10 resistance proc... plus they have a proc to do +25% damage to shields and 3 effects such as dmg and ACCx2
Romulan rep plasmas do there Plasma damage with there plasma proc.. plus -10 damage resistance proc and only 2 effects such as ACCx2
Elite have 4 added effects Romulan only have 3 there for they are not fleet level.. thanks for being wrong again...
Maybe you can see them on your minimap but if your camera is facing one direction how are you going to see left, right or behind you. Even if you have 3 screens that doesn't provide 360 degree view. The minimap only provides a red arrow for this enemy and no other detail. And in the heat of combat you're focusing on your target and your stats. Most of the time I won't know I'm being attacked from behind unless I check my aft shields. And if they're a decent Vaper there's hardly any time to react. If they know you're snooping then they evasive or deuterium closer as to minimize the time they are within detection range.
Still irrelevant as you can know their position, if even on the minimap, to be prepared for thier eventual attack.
Being in the heat of battle against multiple foes with the disadvantage that brings is hardly a fault of cloak detection. Focus falls on the player, its not something to be provided by the game.
If your detection is up while fighting a foe and it lets you know another cloaker is on your six that is your warning. You either attempt to finish the foe in your sights and deal with the new threat or cut and run to fight again elsewhere.
Cloak detection is only designed to allow you spot a stealthed foe so you are not disadvantaged by suprise, not give ingame compensation to help you battle a single or multiple foes.
Knowing is half the battle. The other half is how you use the knowledge.
Innate to the feds was also not in your question. Sensors still answer it as it allows for stealth detection on a innate passive scale.
Only the feds have the Nebula and its console, designed specifically to counter stealth.
The KDF doesnt have access it. KDF Roms dont have access to it.
The KDF does have innate cloaking, which is the only advantage we do not share with the feds.
Otherwise our cloaks behave just like your cloaks. You still have the best ability to make stealth snoopers and counter the simple advantage of cloak.
Its a fair trade off. The arguement that feds need innate stealth detection is irrelevant as even the ships shown onscreen never had such a push button ability.
Stop ignoring your strengths. Work with the benefits you have.
How many NPC's have we all killed because they dropped shields to cloak?
How many times have you played a KDF or Rom Republic character and you have been blasted out of space safe behind your cloak?
I understand the panic of being ambushed, but that is brief, and you can be ambushed in the middle of a fur ball.
The Galaxy Dreadnought, I have taken into situations in which the all mighty scimitar gets turned into a mini blackhole and my "failaxy" dented but alive and fighting.
I have soloed the spawn cube in Kitomer, while I see the always unique death animation for romulan vessels when they fight the same spawn cubes along side other vessels.
The Galaxy-X, Defiant, and to a lesser extent the Avenger, are cloak capable, they don't need to do it. that makes them even stronger when they have the cloak.
I mean whats the KDF equivalent to the Galaxy-X? the Gurumba siege destroyer? with its extra built in disruptor lance? It doesn't cloak.
yes I realize the gurumba is a and escort and the Galaxy-X is a dreadnought, but still cloak is a n edge not a broadsword.
Innate to the feds was also not in your question. Sensors still answer it as it allows for stealth detection on a innate passive scale.
Only the feds have the Nebula and its console, designed specifically to counter stealth.
The KDF doesnt have access it. KDF Roms dont have access to it.
The KDF does have innate cloaking, which is the only advantage we do not share with the feds.
Otherwise our cloaks behave just like your cloaks. You still have the best ability to make stealth snoopers and counter the simple advantage of cloak.
Its a fair trade off. The arguement that feds need innate stealth detection is irrelevant as even the ships shown onscreen never had such a push button ability.
Stop ignoring your strengths. Work with the benefits you have.
Just stop...
Innate is to the ship with out consoles....
Stop bring up consoles... they are not INNATE to the ship.. you can remove them.. you cannot remove Cloak off a Klingon ship or a Romulan there for they are innate.
Using you can use consoles and lower other skill to add stealth detection to combat our innate advantage is a weak argument. Only reinforce the point that Federation Ships.. should have a innate ability's on par with Cloak. Not that they should get cloak on all there ships but that they have a Innate ability on par with it.. and if a federation ship has a cloak.. all 3 of them.. it should be treated the same as all cloaks and be innate.
5% hull is not compenstation for cloak.. its that simple.
Innate to the feds was also not in your question. Sensors still answer it as it allows for stealth detection on a innate passive scale.
Only the feds have the Nebula and its console, designed specifically to counter stealth.
The KDF doesnt have access it. KDF Roms dont have access to it.
The KDF does have innate cloaking, which is the only advantage we do not share with the feds.
Otherwise our cloaks behave just like your cloaks. You still have the best ability to make stealth snoopers and counter the simple advantage of cloak.
Its a fair trade off. The arguement that feds need innate stealth detection is irrelevant as even the ships shown onscreen never had such a push button ability.
Stop ignoring your strengths. Work with the benefits you have.
its a symptom of the mmo community.rather than working around "disadvantage" if you can call the federation disadvantaged in the ship category(if you can call a faction with three half carriers, escorts which are both fast and have base 30,000 or 30,000+ with fleet or the Steam Runner, or 3 pack andorian disadvantaged) than work with their obvious strengths, or plan around any weakness.
How many NPC's have we all killed because they dropped shields to cloak?
How many times have you played a KDF or Rom Republic character and you have been blasted out of space safe behind your cloak?
I understand the panic of being ambushed, but that is brief, and you can be ambushed in the middle of a fur ball.
The Galaxy Dreadnought, I have taken into situations in which the all mighty scimitar gets turned into a mini blackhole and my "failaxy" dented but alive and fighting.
I have soloed the spawn cube in Kitomer, while I see the always unique death animation for romulan vessels when they fight the same spawn cubes along side other vessels.
The Galaxy-X, Defiant, and to a lesser extent the Avenger, are cloak capable, they don't need to do it. that makes them even stronger when they have the cloak.
I mean whats the KDF equivalent to the Galaxy-X? the Gurumba siege destroyer? with its extra built in disruptor lance? It doesn't cloak.
yes I realize the gurumba is a and escort and the Galaxy-X is a dreadnought, but still cloak is a n edge not a broadsword.
I'm sorry NPCs.. your bring up npc ships? The same ships that you can use one scatter volley and blow up 10 of them?
NPC ships do not sit around cloaked and blow all there dps cool downs ambushing you while fighting someone else and you had no idea they were even there.
Borg cubes.... give me a break.. that's just about gear.. my Atrox can solo them.. my ar'kif can solo them, my mogh can solo them... so whoopy do you can solo a big flying box....
/sarcasms The Bortias, the Mogh, the negvhar, the scimitar.. any ship in the game can solo kill NPC's.. so with that logic.. no ship needs cloaks.. and all should have to give up a console slot to use them. /end sarcasim
the war between the KDF and the feds is both real and very much alive, if only in the forums and egoes of those who think they need everyone elses advantage to compete in pvp.
how sad they never grew the war ingame, oh the money Cryptic could have made off of ego driven purchases.....
you said: "But we constantly took HEAVY losses. why? Well there are a number of reasons, but when looking at the big picture of the "war" one can see that through carefully apllied sneak attacks(like one would do with a cloak) and using the terrain to aid in tactics, INCLUDING defense, the vietnam forces fought a battle which forced the US to use up resources while they used up very little. They fought a defensive war of attrition. THAT is why they won. their DEFENSE."
then come back causality's don't matter /facepalm
you missing my point. My point was related to tactics used and how they fought, NOT the numbers of deaths. as i said, you missed my point.
Ah yes.. thee lets throw out something that's canon cause you don't agree with it argument
... /clap clap clap
The plasma proc is part of the plasma base damage..
This is not true. there is base dmg, and then there is a chance to apply plasma burns. 2.5% to apply X plasma dmg per second. how is this NOT a proc? the base dmg is not what does this.....you are mistaken and thus if the plasma burn is a proc....and it is.....then the number of mods and procs matches that of elite fleet weapons, thus, Romulan plasma IS their elite fleet weapons.....the down side is, while onlt feds and get elite fleet phasers and only KDF can get elite fleet disruptors., EVERYONE can get rom plasma. however, it could be said that romulans too can get the elite fleet weapons of their ally and thus that is how it is fair...but i digress.
Elite fleet Disruptors do there damage and -10 resistance proc... plus they have a proc to do +25% damage to shields and 3 effects such as dmg and ACCx2
Romulan rep plasmas do there Plasma damage with there plasma proc.. plus -10 damage resistance proc and only 2 effects such as ACCx2
One...it is "their" not "there." second, first you say the plasma burn isnt a proc, then you call it a proc........
Elite have 4 added effects Romulan only have 3 there for they are not fleet level.. thanks for being wrong again...
Innate to the feds was also not in your question. Sensors still answer it as it allows for stealth detection on a innate passive scale.
Only the feds have the Nebula and its console, designed specifically to counter stealth.
The KDF doesnt have access it. KDF Roms dont have access to it.
The KDF does have innate cloaking, which is the only advantage we do not share with the feds.
Otherwise our cloaks behave just like your cloaks. You still have the best ability to make stealth snoopers and counter the simple advantage of cloak.
Its a fair trade off. The arguement that feds need innate stealth detection is irrelevant as even the ships shown onscreen never had such a push button ability. Stop ignoring your strengths. Work with the benefits you have.
THIS is what ive been trying to tell him. In CASE my point is missed. THE RED is my overall MAIN point.
You say: you missing my point. My point was related to tactics used and how they fought, NOT the numbers of deaths. as i said, you missed my point.
The tactics used caused them to lose 17 times the number of men... dur
As far as the weapons /sigh.. dude.. I'll try to explain it so maybe you can comprehend it..
When a Disruptor fires.. it has a disruptor proc.. this is part of the base damage effect.
When a Plasma weapon fires.. it has a plasma proc.. this is part the base damage effect.
Elite disruptors have a disruptor proc, and shield pros + 3 other effects.. such as dmgx1 and accx2... that is a total of 4 effect on top of there base effect.
romulan rep plasmas have there plasma proc and a disruptor proc and 2 other effects such as accx2 That is a total of 3 effects on top of there base effect.
Stop bring up consoles... they are not INNATE to the ship.. you can remove them.. you cannot remove Cloak off a Klingon ship or a Romulan there for they are innate.
Using you can use consoles and lower other skill to add stealth detection to combat our innate advantage is a weak argument. Only reinforce the point that Federation Ships.. should have a innate ability's on par with Cloak. Not that they should get cloak on all there ships but that they have a Innate ability on par with it.. and if a federation ship has a cloak.. all 3 of them.. it should be treated the same as all cloaks and be innate.
5% hull is not compenstation for cloak.. its that simple.
you already been given your on par idea, its innate cloak detection with the same handicaps as standard cloaking - a long CD and it can't be used while in combat.
As to Sensors not counting as innate, that's BS. It follows the character regardless of ship type. My cloaking does not. You can not get more innate than that.
its a symptom of the mmo community.rather than working around "disadvantage" if you can call the federation disadvantaged in the ship category(if you can call a faction with three half carriers, escorts which are both fast and have base 30,000 or 30,000+ with fleet or the Steam Runner, or 3 pack andorian disadvantaged) than work with their obvious strengths, or plan around any weakness.
I know, it just gets old seeing the same BS threads get rehashed every few months as players (old or New) suddenly think they are disadvantaged in a game that has no war sensible warm according to some.
I think the war of egoes is alive and very well, otherwise we would not have threads like this.
you already been given your on par idea, its innate cloak detection with the same handicaps as standard cloaking - a long CD and it can't be used while in combat.
As to Sensors not counting as innate, that's BS. It follows the character regardless of ship type. My cloaking does not. You can not get more innate than that.
what the.. are you guy smoking something?
How many times do I need to say INNATE TO FEDERATION SHIPs!!
sensors are on all ships.. Cloaks are not on all ship.. cloaks are built in so they are innate. Federation have no innate ability's to give some add flavor to Starfleet ships. Hense the idea of adding a sensor sweep to federation ships.. given federation ship would not need to keep there electronic emissions suppressed they would be actively ping for cloaked ship. So adding a innate sensor sweep would fit. As well as work lore wise as Federation ships have always tended to have much better sensors.
You say: you missing my point. My point was related to tactics used and how they fought, NOT the numbers of deaths. as i said, you missed my point.
The tactics used caused them to lose 17 times the number of men... dur
Again, youre focusing on the number of deaths, not the tactics used. the fact is US goals were not met. Viet goals WERE. they want us gone, they wanted that war to be so bloody that it would be unwanted to continue. IT WAS. THAT is how they wont and we lost. the US got NOTHING from us being there. and they got want they wanted, the U.S. gone. As for deaths, if you really want to go there. amoung the number of veit deaths are those unsure of being noncombatants. We killed their women, their kids, the men who didnt even want to fight. Their sisters, mothers, daughters were ***** and why? After a while even WE didint know why we were there and it was becoming a horrible affair all around. you call that a win? Really?
THE POINT IS. THE VIET FOUGHT A DEFENSIVE WAR AND ACCOMPLISHED THEIR GOALS AND THUS THEY ACHIEVED VICTORY THROUGH ACCOMPLISHING THEIR GOALS!!!!
As far as the weapons /sigh.. dude.. I'll try to explain it so maybe you can comprehend it..
When a Disruptor fires.. it has a disruptor proc.. this is part of the base damage effect.
When a Plasma weapon fires.. it has a plasma proc.. this is part the base damage effect.
Elite disruptors have a disruptor proc, and shield pros + 3 other effects.. such as dmgx1 and accx2... that is a total of 4 effect on top of there base effect.
romulan rep plasmas have there plasma proc and a disruptor proc and 2 other effects such as accx2 That is a total of 3 effects on top of there base effect.
Actually while i actually might be wrong here, (i am not above admitting i being wrong, im just NOT wrong in other areas discussed.) youve miss counted. there's the plasma proc, the disruptor proc and 2 mods....thats 4 not 3, while elite fleet have 5, not 4 however. the base dmg of the Romplas is high i believe than the elite fleet weapons when same marks are compared, although i have not double checked on that. however it is worth noting that adding another mod or proc to Romplasma isnt a good idea. you have the disruptor proc lowering resist which allow for more DPS AND the plasma proc which adds more dps...... it too work well with each other and honestly, could be nutz as they are. improvements ARE NOT needed here. And as i said before, romulans have access to their allies elite fleet weapons.....
There for they are not elite fleet weapons..
i made the point i am making in orange....i hope you dont miss it this time.
another point i was trying to make
> there are ways to win even in death.
How many times do I need to say INNATE TO FEDERATION SHIPs!!
sensors are on all ships.. Cloaks are not on all ship.. cloaks are built in so they are innate. Federation have no innate ability's to give some add flavor to Starfleet ships. Hense the idea of adding a sensor sweep to federation ships.. given federation ship would not need to keep there electronic emissions suppressed they would be actively ping for cloaked ship. So adding a innate sensor sweep would fit. As well as work lore wise as Federation ships have always tended to have much better sensors.
Your huge selection of choices in ships is your flavor. The fact you posses the only ships designed to specifically detect cloak is your flavor. The Tachyon Detection Field Console grants a modest passive bonus to your Starship Sensor Array which scales with level. It also grants an active ability that increases Starship Sensors and Cloak Detection of your ship or if you so choose you can use the Advanced Research Vessel, Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit, Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit and The Tachyon Detection Grid Console grants a modest passive bonus to your Starship Sensor Array which scales with level. It also grants an active ability that increases Starship Sensors and Cloak Detection of your ship and nearby ally ships. The grid can extend from the allied ships to reach other allies. to make a cloak detecting net with your fellow feddies.
Stack in that all stealth detection buffs, be it console or not, stack straight and all Stealth increasing buffs do not stack on even a crooked path to allow any cloaked vessel to hide against scrutiny then the flavor is well in the feds choices.
Stop being a little child, your feds, the center of the ST universe - that is your unique flavor.
Its not like some other fanbase came along and cried for your uniqueness until it was given them.
I'm sorry NPCs.. your bring up npc ships? The same ships that you can use one scatter volley and blow up 10 of them?
NPC ships do not sit around cloaked and blow all there dps cool downs ambushing you while fighting someone else and you had no idea they were even there.
Borg cubes.... give me a break.. that's just about gear.. my Atrox can solo them.. my ar'kif can solo them, my mogh can solo them... so whoopy do you can solo a big flying box....
/sarcasms The Bortias, the Mogh, the negvhar, the scimitar.. any ship in the game can solo kill NPC's.. so with that logic.. no ship needs cloaks.. and all should have to give up a console slot to use them. /end sarcasim
Sorry I don't have good gear, I have 3 fleet items. A warp core, and 2 Dual heavy cannons on my Defiant. I also have the Quad phasers if you want to count that, I have the mark 12 borg engines and Deflector, but I did that in a Mark 11 borg shields and deflectors. And no where did i say it was easy, but I do a lot better than these so called superior cloaking ships you have a bug on.
But taking only particular arguments seem to be your style, How many times have you been killed in cloak on your RR or KDF characters? more times than I can count. My RR character has the Dyson science ship, with the full set from the closer to the stars, Aves"free ship" and the 50 doller 3-pack ship) I do not fear nearly so well with her as with my Tact Fed in a Defiant.
with 3 pieces of fleet and all right gear My fed toon Only flys elite while my rom toon is still only advanced
And when are you ambushed? In STFs? no
In Sector space? if so I suggest you write a ticket.
Some one ambushed you on a mission? No that cat be right, if so write a ticket.
Oh you mus mean in those small arenas, where you got to deliberately pvp?
or Ker'kat where you go to pvp?
I have been oneshoted by tranphasics in Ker'kat on my ZMOG BATTALCLOAK BIGGAR NUBARZZZZ romulan, while it took 3 KDF players to take out by Defiant (At the time the Z-store not the fleet i am currently flying) with tholian webbing to force me to stay still.
maybe we should, it works for him and cloaking......
The only vocalizing the KDF (and Roms) need do is that we love the object of our fandom within the IP and what things we would like fixed, changed or added that does not take from other factions unique flavor.
As has been recently expressed to me the Devs do not hate the KDF (or roms). Many actually find great joy with the KDF and wish to see it given love and attention.
we are not the draw of STO though or the bigger profit in the IP, so we must continue to voice our love to let those who control the budgets (which is not the Devs) that we are worth giving love to in the game.
Let the assorted feds cry about flavor, strengths and the lack of uniqueness. Its the self made lie of a mind deep into a superiority complex. They will never believe they have it best ingame. Not even if you gave them the shatner Iwin button.
Just look at the threads. they still cry about BoPs with battle cloaking being OP when the Roms do the job of the KDF better. The KDF is still the boogeyman to the feds regardless of how we actually sit in the power scale, and we always will be.
So sad to have so much in the game and still cry like they are Oliver Twist asking if they "may have another".
5% hull is not compenstation for cloak.. its that simple.
You keep repeating this. I'm not sure what you're talking about or wheather you even know what it means and how ships compare.
Let's take 2 culprits that are each other's counterparts with the Boff seating.
Fleet Qin Raptor vs. Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit
Crew: 200 vs 50
In STO, less crew means better. Why? Because at impact all ships lose flat percentage of crew, so a ship with larger crew complement will lose more crew that a ship with a small crew complement. Furthermore, the basic regeneration rate of crew is equal - therefore the ship with smaller crew will more promptly reach it's maximal passive hull repair potential.
Hull: 36.300 vs 33.000
It may not seem so on paper, but this is another parameter to offset the Qin in comparison to the Defiant. The +3.300 hull is an advantage, but it STO is also a single salvo on bare hull. However, that slower regenerating crew on the Qin will need to repair more hull in order to bring back the ship to full potential.
Shields: 0.9 vs 0.9
This is the odd one. If you payed attention to the forums, you know that every KDF player whose opinion matters something in this STO forum community has agreed that the Fleet Defiant needs her shields upped to 0.99.
Why is this ship the exception to fleet ships, I have no idea. You should take this one to Cryptic.
Base turn rate: 15 vs 17
The big neglected elephant in the room. I really don't feel the need to furter explain just how much more +2 base turn rate means in defensive terms as well as in prime DPS uptime. It's pretty much self explanatory.
Inertia rating: 60 vs 50
Here we see that the Qin is more sluggish when it comes to dogfights.
Console setup: 442 vs 532
And finally, the Qin is also punished with 1 tac.console less than the Defiant, which gives the Defiant much harder hitting opening alpha strike than the Qin.
+ Added value for the Qin /sarcasm/ - borked axis that makes the turning even more sluggish.
The only vocalizing the KDF (and Roms) need do is that we love the object of our fandom within the IP and what things we would like fixed, changed or added that does not take from other factions unique flavor.
As has been recently expressed to me the Devs do not hate the KDF (or roms). Many actually find great joy with the KDF and wish to see it given love and attention.
we are not the draw of STO though or the bigger profit in the IP, so we must continue to voice our love to let those who control the budgets (which is not the Devs) that we are worth giving love to in the game.
Let the assorted feds cry about flavor, strengths and the lack of uniqueness. Its the self made lie of a mind deep into a superiority complex. They will never believe they have it best ingame. Not even if you gave them the shatner Iwin button.
Just look at the threads. they still cry about BoPs with battle cloaking being OP when the Roms do the job of the KDF better. The KDF is still the boogeyman to the feds regardless of how we actually sit in the power scale, and we always will be.
So sad to have so much in the game and still cry like they are Oliver Twist asking if they "may have another".
i made the point i am making in orange....i hope you dont miss it this time.
another point i was trying to make
> there are ways to win even in death.
Chris.. stop.. the VC and NVA did not fight a defensive war.. they were trying to over throw the South Vietnam government.. and the NVA were invading South Vietnam.. you do not invade another country on the defensive.
Notable attacks by NVA: New Year's Day Battle of 1968, Battle of Ban Houei Sane, Battle of Khe Sanh, Tet Offensive, Battle of Lang Vei, Battle of Lima Site 85, May Offensive phase 2 of the Tet Offensive, Battle of CoralBalmoral
Those are just some the battles that were started by the NVA in south Vietnam. Each one was beaten back with heavy loss to the NVA do to ARVIN/US and allied forces counter attacks.
Were there times that NVA forces were fighting defensively.. sure.. every time the US counter attacked and forced them to hide and fight in non conventional way. Due to there in ability to wage a conventional war against the US and allied forces in South Vietnam. Make no mistake though North Vietnam was on the Offensive a lot.. just never worked for them US forces were more mobile and were able to attack the NVA forces faster then the NVA could react.
They attempted a military victory and lost over a million men trying to win a military victory. They lost militarily
What they couldn't gain through military victory they gained through politics and the weak will of American people of fighting the war to its end. The politicians of the US and to a lesser extent the people of the US caused the loss of South Vietnam.. not the US military.
As far as the Elite fleet weapons.. no did not miss count.. the Plasma/disruptor/phaser proc are a built in effect of the weapon type they are not added... if I added it would be 5 effects for elite weapons and 4 of rep weapon. Given its a built in effect of the base damage type its not a add effect like +acc or weapon effect like the elite disruptor +shield damage or the elite phaser + shield heal.
Comments
A sensor scan is passive.. a sensor sweep would be a active scan.. totally different. Kind of like passive sonar vs active sonar thats pinging for a target.
I irks me that you get combative when i make a point but i will make some more....see red.
You dont want feds to give up a console slot to cloak. you dont want feds to give up a console slot to detect cloaks. FINE. lets play that game.
Why give up a console slot for the VATA? the assimilators? The repair console? the big yellow shield thing? the antimatter spread? the black goo? the yellow goo? the GalX lance? the grumba Lance? the MVAM? the valdore console? the leech? The autocannon?
I got it! lets just make ALL the universal consoles a one time buy for your toon to make them a clickable power and NOT a console so you can have your "super easy" button!
-_-
No...that too broken...
I GOT IT!
we will make ALL universal consoles, DEVICES!!!!! that way we can stack more OP powers!!!!
yo dawg i heard you like powercreep, so we put some powercreep in your powercreep so you can power while you creep.
-_-
THIS is as simple as it can get.
FED CLOAKING IS FINE. PLAY THE BLOODY GAME!
have fun, kill bad guys.
You just made your self look pretty big foolish....
Let me educate you on what Sun Tzu said.. the full quote: Invincibility lies in the defense the possibility of victory in the attack. One defends when his strength is inadequate he attacks when it is abundant
he never said that you are invincible in defense. It ties in to the greater art of war.
Therefore the clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him'
holding out advantages to him, he can cause the enemy to approach of his own accord; or, by inflicting damage, he can make it impossible for the enemy to draw near
If the enemy is taking his ease, he can harass him;if well supplied with food, he can starve him out; if quietly encamped, he can force him to move
Hence that general is skillful in attack whose opponent does not know what to defend; and he is skillful in defense whose opponent does not know what to attack.
O divine art of subtlety and secrecy! Through you we learn to be invisible, through you inaudible;
and hence we can hold the enemy's fate in our hands
The spot where we intend to fight must not be made known; for then the enemy will have to prepare against a possible attack at several different points; and his forces being thus distributed in many directions, the numbers we shall have to face at any given point will be proportionately few
For should the enemy strengthen his van, he will weaken his rear; should he strengthen his rear, he will weaken his van; should he strengthen his left, he will weaken his right; should he strengthen his right, he will weaken his left. If he sends reinforcements everywhere, he will everywhere be weak
Do you understand what he is saying.. I mean really do you comprehend it?
I can not believe you brought up the Vietnam war.. we took very minor loss vs the VC and the North Vietnam army. The VC lost over 50,000 the NVA lost between 1.1 million to 950,000 men the US lost just over 58,000 KIA. That's a 17 to 1 KDR in favor of the US. The US did not lose any major battles in the Vietnam War. The US lost do to at home politics. Ho Chi Minh was going to sue for peace after the disaster of Tet offensive. it was only do to Amercian politics at home that convinced him that he would not be able to win a conventional war.. he could win in the world political stage. Also the NVA was on the offensive multiple times and each time were defeated by counter attacks by US forces. Please get your history right.. you see I was a political / military history major.
AS far as Klingon Empire.. go watch Enterprise again.. it talks about the other aspects of Klingon empire.. not just the warriors part.
Romulan rep weapons are not fleet and they do not have the same number of procs... Romulan rep are 3 proc weapons plasma plus disruptor effect + two more and elite fleet are 4 proc such as disruptors with +shield damage effect + 3 more... just wow unless you mistakenly counted the plasma burn as a proc lol
The problem is Chrisbrown you scream fact when you do not have any..
See red. I again see this is going no where......you know, i would be interested to fight you 1v1, just to try to understand you through how you fight. Just to see if you could kill me.
Still answers your question of "how many are innate". Active or Passive was not in your question.
R.I.P
LOL.. keep digging that pit boy...
you said: "But we constantly took HEAVY losses. why? Well there are a number of reasons, but when looking at the big picture of the "war" one can see that through carefully apllied sneak attacks(like one would do with a cloak) and using the terrain to aid in tactics, INCLUDING defense, the vietnam forces fought a battle which forced the US to use up resources while they used up very little. They fought a defensive war of attrition. THAT is why they won. their DEFENSE."
then come back causality's don't matter /facepalm
Ah yes.. thee lets throw out something that's canon cause you don't agree with it argument
... /clap clap clap
The plasma proc is part of the plasma base damage..
Elite fleet Disruptors do there damage and -10 resistance proc... plus they have a proc to do +25% damage to shields and 3 effects such as dmg and ACCx2
Romulan rep plasmas do there Plasma damage with there plasma proc.. plus -10 damage resistance proc and only 2 effects such as ACCx2
Elite have 4 added effects Romulan only have 3 there for they are not fleet level.. thanks for being wrong again...
Innate to the federation only.. none
Last I check all ships have basic sensors...
Still irrelevant as you can know their position, if even on the minimap, to be prepared for thier eventual attack.
Being in the heat of battle against multiple foes with the disadvantage that brings is hardly a fault of cloak detection. Focus falls on the player, its not something to be provided by the game.
If your detection is up while fighting a foe and it lets you know another cloaker is on your six that is your warning. You either attempt to finish the foe in your sights and deal with the new threat or cut and run to fight again elsewhere.
Cloak detection is only designed to allow you spot a stealthed foe so you are not disadvantaged by suprise, not give ingame compensation to help you battle a single or multiple foes.
Knowing is half the battle. The other half is how you use the knowledge.
R.I.P
Innate to the feds was also not in your question. Sensors still answer it as it allows for stealth detection on a innate passive scale.
Only the feds have the Nebula and its console, designed specifically to counter stealth.
The KDF doesnt have access it. KDF Roms dont have access to it.
The KDF does have innate cloaking, which is the only advantage we do not share with the feds.
Otherwise our cloaks behave just like your cloaks. You still have the best ability to make stealth snoopers and counter the simple advantage of cloak.
Its a fair trade off. The arguement that feds need innate stealth detection is irrelevant as even the ships shown onscreen never had such a push button ability.
Stop ignoring your strengths. Work with the benefits you have.
R.I.P
How many NPC's have we all killed because they dropped shields to cloak?
How many times have you played a KDF or Rom Republic character and you have been blasted out of space safe behind your cloak?
I understand the panic of being ambushed, but that is brief, and you can be ambushed in the middle of a fur ball.
The Galaxy Dreadnought, I have taken into situations in which the all mighty scimitar gets turned into a mini blackhole and my "failaxy" dented but alive and fighting.
I have soloed the spawn cube in Kitomer, while I see the always unique death animation for romulan vessels when they fight the same spawn cubes along side other vessels.
The Galaxy-X, Defiant, and to a lesser extent the Avenger, are cloak capable, they don't need to do it. that makes them even stronger when they have the cloak.
I mean whats the KDF equivalent to the Galaxy-X? the Gurumba siege destroyer? with its extra built in disruptor lance? It doesn't cloak.
yes I realize the gurumba is a and escort and the Galaxy-X is a dreadnought, but still cloak is a n edge not a broadsword.
Just stop...
Innate is to the ship with out consoles....
Stop bring up consoles... they are not INNATE to the ship.. you can remove them.. you cannot remove Cloak off a Klingon ship or a Romulan there for they are innate.
Using you can use consoles and lower other skill to add stealth detection to combat our innate advantage is a weak argument. Only reinforce the point that Federation Ships.. should have a innate ability's on par with Cloak. Not that they should get cloak on all there ships but that they have a Innate ability on par with it.. and if a federation ship has a cloak.. all 3 of them.. it should be treated the same as all cloaks and be innate.
5% hull is not compenstation for cloak.. its that simple.
its a symptom of the mmo community.rather than working around "disadvantage" if you can call the federation disadvantaged in the ship category(if you can call a faction with three half carriers, escorts which are both fast and have base 30,000 or 30,000+ with fleet or the Steam Runner, or 3 pack andorian disadvantaged) than work with their obvious strengths, or plan around any weakness.
I'm sorry NPCs.. your bring up npc ships? The same ships that you can use one scatter volley and blow up 10 of them?
NPC ships do not sit around cloaked and blow all there dps cool downs ambushing you while fighting someone else and you had no idea they were even there.
Borg cubes.... give me a break.. that's just about gear.. my Atrox can solo them.. my ar'kif can solo them, my mogh can solo them... so whoopy do you can solo a big flying box....
/sarcasms The Bortias, the Mogh, the negvhar, the scimitar.. any ship in the game can solo kill NPC's.. so with that logic.. no ship needs cloaks.. and all should have to give up a console slot to use them. /end sarcasim
how sad they never grew the war ingame, oh the money Cryptic could have made off of ego driven purchases.....
R.I.P
Still..........christ.......
THIS is what ive been trying to tell him. In CASE my point is missed. THE RED is my overall MAIN point.
You say: you missing my point. My point was related to tactics used and how they fought, NOT the numbers of deaths. as i said, you missed my point.
The tactics used caused them to lose 17 times the number of men... dur
As far as the weapons /sigh.. dude.. I'll try to explain it so maybe you can comprehend it..
When a Disruptor fires.. it has a disruptor proc.. this is part of the base damage effect.
When a Plasma weapon fires.. it has a plasma proc.. this is part the base damage effect.
Elite disruptors have a disruptor proc, and shield pros + 3 other effects.. such as dmgx1 and accx2... that is a total of 4 effect on top of there base effect.
romulan rep plasmas have there plasma proc and a disruptor proc and 2 other effects such as accx2 That is a total of 3 effects on top of there base effect.
There for they are not elite fleet weapons..
you already been given your on par idea, its innate cloak detection with the same handicaps as standard cloaking - a long CD and it can't be used while in combat.
As to Sensors not counting as innate, that's BS. It follows the character regardless of ship type. My cloaking does not. You can not get more innate than that.
R.I.P
I know, it just gets old seeing the same BS threads get rehashed every few months as players (old or New) suddenly think they are disadvantaged in a game that has no war sensible warm according to some.
I think the war of egoes is alive and very well, otherwise we would not have threads like this.
R.I.P
what the.. are you guy smoking something?
How many times do I need to say INNATE TO FEDERATION SHIPs!!
sensors are on all ships.. Cloaks are not on all ship.. cloaks are built in so they are innate. Federation have no innate ability's to give some add flavor to Starfleet ships. Hense the idea of adding a sensor sweep to federation ships.. given federation ship would not need to keep there electronic emissions suppressed they would be actively ping for cloaked ship. So adding a innate sensor sweep would fit. As well as work lore wise as Federation ships have always tended to have much better sensors.
i made the point i am making in orange....i hope you dont miss it this time.
another point i was trying to make
> there are ways to win even in death.
Your huge selection of choices in ships is your flavor. The fact you posses the only ships designed to specifically detect cloak is your flavor.
The Tachyon Detection Field Console grants a modest passive bonus to your Starship Sensor Array which scales with level. It also grants an active ability that increases Starship Sensors and Cloak Detection of your ship or if you so choose you can use the Advanced Research Vessel, Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit, Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit and The Tachyon Detection Grid Console grants a modest passive bonus to your Starship Sensor Array which scales with level. It also grants an active ability that increases Starship Sensors and Cloak Detection of your ship and nearby ally ships. The grid can extend from the allied ships to reach other allies. to make a cloak detecting net with your fellow feddies.
Stack in that all stealth detection buffs, be it console or not, stack straight and all Stealth increasing buffs do not stack on even a crooked path to allow any cloaked vessel to hide against scrutiny then the flavor is well in the feds choices.
Stop being a little child, your feds, the center of the ST universe - that is your unique flavor.
Its not like some other fanbase came along and cried for your uniqueness until it was given them.
R.I.P
maybe we should, it works for him and cloaking......
Sorry I don't have good gear, I have 3 fleet items. A warp core, and 2 Dual heavy cannons on my Defiant. I also have the Quad phasers if you want to count that, I have the mark 12 borg engines and Deflector, but I did that in a Mark 11 borg shields and deflectors. And no where did i say it was easy, but I do a lot better than these so called superior cloaking ships you have a bug on.
But taking only particular arguments seem to be your style, How many times have you been killed in cloak on your RR or KDF characters? more times than I can count. My RR character has the Dyson science ship, with the full set from the closer to the stars, Aves"free ship" and the 50 doller 3-pack ship) I do not fear nearly so well with her as with my Tact Fed in a Defiant.
with 3 pieces of fleet and all right gear My fed toon Only flys elite while my rom toon is still only advanced
And when are you ambushed? In STFs? no
In Sector space? if so I suggest you write a ticket.
Some one ambushed you on a mission? No that cat be right, if so write a ticket.
Oh you mus mean in those small arenas, where you got to deliberately pvp?
or Ker'kat where you go to pvp?
I have been oneshoted by tranphasics in Ker'kat on my ZMOG BATTALCLOAK BIGGAR NUBARZZZZ romulan, while it took 3 KDF players to take out by Defiant (At the time the Z-store not the fleet i am currently flying) with tholian webbing to force me to stay still.
seriously do you only play federation toons?
The only vocalizing the KDF (and Roms) need do is that we love the object of our fandom within the IP and what things we would like fixed, changed or added that does not take from other factions unique flavor.
As has been recently expressed to me the Devs do not hate the KDF (or roms). Many actually find great joy with the KDF and wish to see it given love and attention.
we are not the draw of STO though or the bigger profit in the IP, so we must continue to voice our love to let those who control the budgets (which is not the Devs) that we are worth giving love to in the game.
Let the assorted feds cry about flavor, strengths and the lack of uniqueness. Its the self made lie of a mind deep into a superiority complex. They will never believe they have it best ingame. Not even if you gave them the shatner Iwin button.
Just look at the threads. they still cry about BoPs with battle cloaking being OP when the Roms do the job of the KDF better. The KDF is still the boogeyman to the feds regardless of how we actually sit in the power scale, and we always will be.
So sad to have so much in the game and still cry like they are Oliver Twist asking if they "may have another".
R.I.P
You keep repeating this. I'm not sure what you're talking about or wheather you even know what it means and how ships compare.
Let's take 2 culprits that are each other's counterparts with the Boff seating.
Fleet Qin Raptor vs. Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit
Crew: 200 vs 50
In STO, less crew means better. Why? Because at impact all ships lose flat percentage of crew, so a ship with larger crew complement will lose more crew that a ship with a small crew complement. Furthermore, the basic regeneration rate of crew is equal - therefore the ship with smaller crew will more promptly reach it's maximal passive hull repair potential.
Hull: 36.300 vs 33.000
It may not seem so on paper, but this is another parameter to offset the Qin in comparison to the Defiant. The +3.300 hull is an advantage, but it STO is also a single salvo on bare hull. However, that slower regenerating crew on the Qin will need to repair more hull in order to bring back the ship to full potential.
Shields: 0.9 vs 0.9
This is the odd one. If you payed attention to the forums, you know that every KDF player whose opinion matters something in this STO forum community has agreed that the Fleet Defiant needs her shields upped to 0.99.
Why is this ship the exception to fleet ships, I have no idea. You should take this one to Cryptic.
Base turn rate: 15 vs 17
The big neglected elephant in the room. I really don't feel the need to furter explain just how much more +2 base turn rate means in defensive terms as well as in prime DPS uptime. It's pretty much self explanatory.
Inertia rating: 60 vs 50
Here we see that the Qin is more sluggish when it comes to dogfights.
Console setup: 4 4 2 vs 5 3 2
And finally, the Qin is also punished with 1 tac.console less than the Defiant, which gives the Defiant much harder hitting opening alpha strike than the Qin.
+ Added value for the Qin /sarcasm/ - borked axis that makes the turning even more sluggish.
You were saying?
tanking fed greatness.
Chris.. stop.. the VC and NVA did not fight a defensive war.. they were trying to over throw the South Vietnam government.. and the NVA were invading South Vietnam.. you do not invade another country on the defensive.
Notable attacks by NVA: New Year's Day Battle of 1968, Battle of Ban Houei Sane, Battle of Khe Sanh, Tet Offensive, Battle of Lang Vei, Battle of Lima Site 85, May Offensive phase 2 of the Tet Offensive, Battle of CoralBalmoral
Those are just some the battles that were started by the NVA in south Vietnam. Each one was beaten back with heavy loss to the NVA do to ARVIN/US and allied forces counter attacks.
Were there times that NVA forces were fighting defensively.. sure.. every time the US counter attacked and forced them to hide and fight in non conventional way. Due to there in ability to wage a conventional war against the US and allied forces in South Vietnam. Make no mistake though North Vietnam was on the Offensive a lot.. just never worked for them US forces were more mobile and were able to attack the NVA forces faster then the NVA could react.
They attempted a military victory and lost over a million men trying to win a military victory. They lost militarily
What they couldn't gain through military victory they gained through politics and the weak will of American people of fighting the war to its end. The politicians of the US and to a lesser extent the people of the US caused the loss of South Vietnam.. not the US military.
As far as the Elite fleet weapons.. no did not miss count.. the Plasma/disruptor/phaser proc are a built in effect of the weapon type they are not added... if I added it would be 5 effects for elite weapons and 4 of rep weapon. Given its a built in effect of the base damage type its not a add effect like +acc or weapon effect like the elite disruptor +shield damage or the elite phaser + shield heal.