And naturally non-Elite content would still have no injuries and would only have the repair timer and the early rez cost, which would be lower due to lack of injuries.
If someone shows up with dmage on there ship it wont really impact the stf that much
We veterans are so OP now i really dont feel it
Starfleet sent what they had available just like in the JJ movie...They staffed the ships with Cadets !
and some ships were not ready to leave the shipyards
Its time to be Kirk/Klag/Tomolock and save the quadrent
If you cant
Your not Elite
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
If someone shows up with dmage on there ship it wont really impact the stf that much
We veterans are so OP now i really dont feel it
Starfleet sent what they had available just like in the JJ movie...They staffed the ships with Cadets !
and some ships were not ready to leave the shipyards
Its time to be Kirk/Klag/Tomolock and save the quadrent
If you cant
Your not Elite
No offense, but i've had to deal with 3 players filled with injuries all on one side in vortex elite.
It ended up i had to intercept probes from both sides, killed transformers/cubes and gate on one side and moved to other side to do the same.
There are players which are potent enough to overcome a 1-2 person handicap, but it's incredibly annoying.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
An Elite STF is the perfect time for one to showcase ELITE RP skills, you ask me. A player that can balance their ability to perform under amazing pressure and still stay within the confines of characterization and star trek theme, is to me, the hardest of the hardcore.
Which is why I submit any suggestions that limit one's ability to role play a battle damaged ship, or a captain eschewing physical injury to take the helm in one last gasp glorious ride to victory, is not a suggestion I can get behind.
Your right to swing your arms ends just where the other mans nose begins.
I don't have a problem with you RPing like that, as long as you're not ****ing things up for other people who didn't agree to be ****ed over by your RP. When you go into an STF you are not playing in a vacuum.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I don't have a problem with you RPing like that, as long as you're not ****ing things up for other people who didn't agree to be ****ed over by your RP. When you go into an STF you are not playing in a vacuum.
That's fine. But the suggestions being made in this thread are suggestions that would hamper my gameplay and exclude me from doing the things I normally do.
Note I've not once, ever, impeded the completion of an STF for anyone in this thread.
But still, those in this thread would like to impede and set up obstacles in my gameplay.
I don't agree with the solutions, nor do I feel the problem is as widespread as its being made out to be.
Also, the suggestion made now multiple times to limit rewards for folks who are injured would seem to once again contradict the idea of being elite.
If I'm able to help take down an elite STF while being hampered by injury, shouldn't I get MORE reward since I'm now facing more obstacles?
I just am really confused by the whole "elite" talk since most of it centers around laziness and automation being added to enhance that laziness. Whereas the suggestion is that those players are somewhat better and up to facing bigger challenges by draping oneself in the idea of being elite ... in the end, it's just another suggestion to facilitate easier gameplay. Or, as I would see it, the exact opposite of elite gameplay.
In other words, if a player really and truly defines the qualities of being ELITE ... then they should really be seeking out the added challenges that this thread is complaining about.
Just make it so folks get reduced marks at end of stf... based on how damaged you are. and if you come in crippled you dont get the rep required component at all.
If folks want to fight at elite level they should be prepared... you can join in from anywhere so they should just park themselves at their local home system.
Let me put this in perspective for you:
The brave knight killed the dragon and freed the princess. Unfortunately he lost a leg while doing so. To his everlasting dismay, he finds that the princess is not a princess anymore, but a tavern wench with bad breath.
If someone shows up with dmage on there ship it wont really impact the stf that much
We veterans are so OP now i really dont feel it
Starfleet sent what they had available just like in the JJ movie...They staffed the ships with Cadets !
and some ships were not ready to leave the shipyards
Its time to be Kirk/Klag/Tomolock and save the quadrent
If you cant
Your not Elite
*fixes to "You're not Elite".
Starfleet sending patched ships is a cool way of looking at it. But I disagree that it doesn't affect stfs. If the team's doing less damage, it takes a lot longer. Doing an stf with a group of injured ships can take about 40 min while an stf with a group of uninjured ships can take about 6 min. Sure, if they healed their damage they probably aren't too good to begin with but 40 vs even 15 min saves a lot of time.
I don't agree with the solutions, nor do I feel the problem is as widespread as its being made out to be.
I find that tends to be true of a lot of the things people complain about on here.
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,689Community Moderator
edited May 2014
Maybe a cap on the number of acceptable injuiries, because going in and seeing someone with pretty much every injury known to man 5x over at least is a bit demoralizing. Also... those ships/captains tend to get one shot from normal attacks. So far... ton of unhealed injuries = troll for me. One or two is forgivable. But a lot? Sorry. I don't see the RP value in a sheer amount of injuries that make you pretty much useless to the rest of the team.
And besides... you don't have to actually carry components/regenerators on you! Just have them in your bank and you can use them when needed!
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
I think the injury system needs a makeover as does the crew system, which devs have talked about ripping out. And if we're eyeing immersion, we also have too many ships blowing up.
Here's how I would handle it, through a mix of eliminating/modifying the penalty and modifying death:
1) When you hit zero hull, your ship is disabled, like what happens when you are knocked out in ground combat.
2) You have a repair timer, which is your time until you can make a free repair, in place. The timer gets longer with each death.
3) You can revive yourself, in place, ahead of the timer. But this will be based on a list of injuries/damages which determine the cost of an early revival. And rather than using commodities, you simply get an EC cost for early repairs.
So what you see here when you die is your ship, adrift, with a window that has "Time Until Repair" and a list of injuries below that. At the bottom of the window is "Cost to Repair Now" and if you have enough EC, you can press a button to revive instantly.
3) At the end of the timer, other players can revive you you in place, similar to a ground revival.
4) At the end of the timer, you also have the option to "Warp Out and Repair". Taking this option can only be done at the end of the timer. It will show your ship sputter out, damaged, and respawn at the last spawn point, intact.
So the window at the end of the Repair Timer no longer lists a cost and has two options:
Distress Signal (ala Call for Help on Ground)
AND
Repair and Regroup
At no point do you see player ships blow up unless there's a story reason (such as a mission that provides for destroying a ship as a means to trade in for a different one) -- and blown up ships if they ever happen are actually blown up.
This would enhance the team aspect considerably. It provides an EC sink. If the concern is about people going all Leeroy Jenkins, the system could also be coded so that each "disabled" state has more and more injuries and a longer timer, creating an EC sink. And tankier ships could get features which shorten the respawn or lower the EC cost of revival, making ships like the Galaxy and some of the clunkier carriers more viable. Self-rezzing is shorter and less costly for lower damage ships. This could be handled by a crew stat, by hull, and maybe even by weapon if, say, equipping dual heavy cannons causes more costly repairs than equipping torpedos. More damage? More can go wrong. Encouraging you to wait out the repair timer more or spend considerably more EC on higher damage potential ships.
This is actually a really cool idea. I've always been a bit distressed on how on ground you are "disabled" and in space, you are vaporized by a warp core breach. I've had a similar suggestion earlier on, but this idea is actually cleaner.
Live on Earth. Work in Space. Play with Dragons. Join the best add on to STO, the Neverwinter holodeck program! Only 14 GPL a month.
Maybe a cap on the number of acceptable injuiries, because going in and seeing someone with pretty much every injury known to man 5x over at least is a bit demoralizing. Also... those ships/captains tend to get one shot from normal attacks. So far... ton of unhealed injuries = troll for me. One or two is forgivable. But a lot? Sorry. I don't see the RP value in a sheer amount of injuries that make you pretty much useless to the rest of the team.
And besides... you don't have to actually carry components/regenerators on you! Just have them in your bank and you can use them when needed!
Well, considering how many of them give offensive and defensive penalties? yeah... -2% damage isn't bad... but it stacks... -25% damage is crippling... so is the equivalent defensive penalty.
That's fine. But the suggestions being made in this thread are suggestions that would hamper my gameplay and exclude me from doing the things I normally do.
Note I've not once, ever, impeded the completion of an STF for anyone in this thread.
But still, those in this thread would like to impede and set up obstacles in my gameplay.
I don't agree with the solutions, nor do I feel the problem is as widespread as its being made out to be.
Also, the suggestion made now multiple times to limit rewards for folks who are injured would seem to once again contradict the idea of being elite.
If I'm able to help take down an elite STF while being hampered by injury, shouldn't I get MORE reward since I'm now facing more obstacles?
I just am really confused by the whole "elite" talk since most of it centers around laziness and automation being added to enhance that laziness. Whereas the suggestion is that those players are somewhat better and up to facing bigger challenges by draping oneself in the idea of being elite ... in the end, it's just another suggestion to facilitate easier gameplay. Or, as I would see it, the exact opposite of elite gameplay.
In other words, if a player really and truly defines the qualities of being ELITE ... then they should really be seeking out the added challenges that this thread is complaining about.
If you can run the STFs without being a burden to your team despite the injuries you keep for RP purposes, then go ahead and play that way. But when someone has a ship or character with a list of injuries longer than their health bar and dies to every second enemy attack, the rest of the players get understandably upset. I played an Undine Infiltration run last week where a team member insisted on playing with what looked to be about 20 injuries, and was constantly dying. That's not roleplaying, that's simply being rude.
Its like in Tholian ground STFs where people do not enable their EVA suits and shout " lame game bug" ..lol
Well there is a bug visually with some races/gender. For example my male Reman shows he EV suit visual even when it hasn't been activated. I found this out in the FE on the station, I looked like I had activated the EV suit, passed through the shield and dead. Now on him I always double check.
Well there is a bug visually with some races/gender. For example my male Reman shows he EV suit visual even when it hasn't been activated. I found this out in the FE on the station, I looked like I had activated the EV suit, passed through the shield and dead. Now on him I always double check.
Out side of that glitch I would agree with you.
this is related to whether armor visuals are enabled for the suit. It's technically not a glitch, the suit armor visual is the same as the activated visual (except the glowy light_that not all suits have)
If you can run the STFs without being a burden to your team despite the injuries you keep for RP purposes, then go ahead and play that way. But when someone has a ship or character with a list of injuries longer than their health bar and dies to every second enemy attack, the rest of the players get understandably upset. I played an Undine Infiltration run last week where a team member insisted on playing with what looked to be about 20 injuries, and was constantly dying. That's not roleplaying, that's simply being rude.
Keep in mind, my objection centers on this suggestion:
I would like to ask if a new feature can be added which stops people from entering Elite STF with injuries.
See? It would certainly stop those players you are calling rude.
BUT ... it would also stop me from being in there with one injury.
Which I find rude.
I just don't think the problem is as big a problem as has been made out to be. I've read quite a few threads of people boasting that they can practically solo this content right now. So being down one or two people because of injuries shouldn't affect truly "elite" players according to their own posted boasts.
I'm not a fan of ideas that keep people from simple basic gameplay.
I'm also not a fan of the injury system itself as it was a poorly implemented idea pushed for by the players oh so long ago. And I quite remember how strong the push for the system was. Well we got it just like it was asked for. And if over that time I softened on the idea enough to use it for RP purposes (since it's relatively worthless in gameplay mechanics) ... I'm kind of set on keeping the status quo.
Easy solution for this. Incorporate a queue pop-up alert (with a store embedded for buying the necessary items) that says "Heal up, I see you probably forgot". In the Elites, pop-up saying "You've got XYZ damage, back off blah blah meters/kilometers out of firing range and heal/repair now, quickly!".
Easy all around. Those who may not realize they've still got injuries can be reminded to do so right there, and are less likely to forget. Anyone damaged in the run can back off and heal up in a snap (of course, assuming they're not the aggro target and CAN get out of range to heal)
Remember, you are only as good as your set-up is. If you can't handle an Elite run and having a team mate acquire damage....
you know, if cryptic were to remove injuries tomorrow, i honestly doubt 99% of STO players would notice... or care, or if cryptic ever felt like being a troll, they could add SFX that showed your ship nearly going up in flames/all heavily damaged or something, if you got injuries on it lol, they could do the same to characters.
If I'm able to help take down an elite STF while being hampered by injury, shouldn't I get MORE reward since I'm now facing more obstacles?
So, deliberately limit the capability of your ship, join in a team action where how much your ship contributes makes a difference to the final reward for all, and you think you should be rewarded over and above the people that might have to carry you thropugh said fleet action?
Surely, in this case, the 'challenge' you refer to should be its own reward, no?
I favour there being a more visual representation of damage, because I suspect that a large proportion of these people simply dont realise they are damaged.
Make it more obvious to them, especially if its in a cool way, and a large part of the issue goes away.
The people that actively choose to fly with injuries should just team up with the Tier 1 Connie crew and have at it.
Keep in mind, my objection centers on this suggestion:
See? It would certainly stop those players you are calling rude.
BUT ... it would also stop me from being in there with one injury.
Which I find rude.
I just don't think the problem is as big a problem as has been made out to be. I've read quite a few threads of people boasting that they can practically solo this content right now. So being down one or two people because of injuries shouldn't affect truly "elite" players according to their own posted boasts.
I'm not a fan of ideas that keep people from simple basic gameplay.
I'm also not a fan of the injury system itself as it was a poorly implemented idea pushed for by the players oh so long ago. And I quite remember how strong the push for the system was. Well we got it just like it was asked for. And if over that time I softened on the idea enough to use it for RP purposes (since it's relatively worthless in gameplay mechanics) ... I'm kind of set on keeping the status quo.
I guess I can see your point there, though I honestly don't like or want to carry those people, regardless of whether the rest of the group makes up for it or not. I can get behind the idea of more visual representation of injuries/damage, though, and maybe things like slower movement/cooldowns for certain injuries, if there isn't (never been damaged bad enough for long enough to actually notice).
I can see why the idea of injuries restricting people from playing STFs would be a bad idea, though. Some people like you save an injury or two for RP purposes, others just ran out of components/regenerators and aren't currently at a starbase while running a few STFs, etc. I just find it aggravating that we get stuck with people either too lazy to learn the game mechanics or simply just trolling people (one ground pug I had, there was a character with 20-30 injuries and no personal shield equipped) because of a lack of Kick mechanic and nobody wanting to get saddled with a leaver penalty over one person.
Comments
I actually really like all of these suggestions.
Have to agree, this would be an excellent solution.
Currently the cosmetic damage on your ship is tied to hull damage.
It would be awesome if it was also triggered by subsystem damage.
If someone shows up with dmage on there ship it wont really impact the stf that much
We veterans are so OP now i really dont feel it
Starfleet sent what they had available just like in the JJ movie...They staffed the ships with Cadets !
and some ships were not ready to leave the shipyards
Its time to be Kirk/Klag/Tomolock and save the quadrent
If you cant
Your not Elite
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Sometimes even I accidentally enter STFs damaged... simply because of forgetting it. Would be a nice reminder too.
People dislike being limited and like getting something.
No offense, but i've had to deal with 3 players filled with injuries all on one side in vortex elite.
It ended up i had to intercept probes from both sides, killed transformers/cubes and gate on one side and moved to other side to do the same.
There are players which are potent enough to overcome a 1-2 person handicap, but it's incredibly annoying.
And I quote:
I don't have a problem with you RPing like that, as long as you're not ****ing things up for other people who didn't agree to be ****ed over by your RP. When you go into an STF you are not playing in a vacuum.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
That's fine. But the suggestions being made in this thread are suggestions that would hamper my gameplay and exclude me from doing the things I normally do.
Note I've not once, ever, impeded the completion of an STF for anyone in this thread.
But still, those in this thread would like to impede and set up obstacles in my gameplay.
I don't agree with the solutions, nor do I feel the problem is as widespread as its being made out to be.
Also, the suggestion made now multiple times to limit rewards for folks who are injured would seem to once again contradict the idea of being elite.
If I'm able to help take down an elite STF while being hampered by injury, shouldn't I get MORE reward since I'm now facing more obstacles?
I just am really confused by the whole "elite" talk since most of it centers around laziness and automation being added to enhance that laziness. Whereas the suggestion is that those players are somewhat better and up to facing bigger challenges by draping oneself in the idea of being elite ... in the end, it's just another suggestion to facilitate easier gameplay. Or, as I would see it, the exact opposite of elite gameplay.
In other words, if a player really and truly defines the qualities of being ELITE ... then they should really be seeking out the added challenges that this thread is complaining about.
Let me put this in perspective for you:
The brave knight killed the dragon and freed the princess. Unfortunately he lost a leg while doing so. To his everlasting dismay, he finds that the princess is not a princess anymore, but a tavern wench with bad breath.
At least I used a colorful analogy without cars !
Starfleet sending patched ships is a cool way of looking at it. But I disagree that it doesn't affect stfs. If the team's doing less damage, it takes a lot longer. Doing an stf with a group of injured ships can take about 40 min while an stf with a group of uninjured ships can take about 6 min. Sure, if they healed their damage they probably aren't too good to begin with but 40 vs even 15 min saves a lot of time.
I find that tends to be true of a lot of the things people complain about on here.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
And besides... you don't have to actually carry components/regenerators on you! Just have them in your bank and you can use them when needed!
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
This is actually a really cool idea. I've always been a bit distressed on how on ground you are "disabled" and in space, you are vaporized by a warp core breach. I've had a similar suggestion earlier on, but this idea is actually cleaner.
My character Tsin'xing
If you can run the STFs without being a burden to your team despite the injuries you keep for RP purposes, then go ahead and play that way. But when someone has a ship or character with a list of injuries longer than their health bar and dies to every second enemy attack, the rest of the players get understandably upset. I played an Undine Infiltration run last week where a team member insisted on playing with what looked to be about 20 injuries, and was constantly dying. That's not roleplaying, that's simply being rude.
Its like in Tholian ground STFs where people do not enable their EVA suits and shout " lame game bug" ..lol
Well there is a bug visually with some races/gender. For example my male Reman shows he EV suit visual even when it hasn't been activated. I found this out in the FE on the station, I looked like I had activated the EV suit, passed through the shield and dead. Now on him I always double check.
Out side of that glitch I would agree with you.
There's no market for that in STO.
I guess we have a business gap then, lets produce and sell some positronic brains atleast
but pshhhh not so loud ..the ferengi might steal our business idea
My character Tsin'xing
Keep in mind, my objection centers on this suggestion:
See? It would certainly stop those players you are calling rude.
BUT ... it would also stop me from being in there with one injury.
Which I find rude.
I just don't think the problem is as big a problem as has been made out to be. I've read quite a few threads of people boasting that they can practically solo this content right now. So being down one or two people because of injuries shouldn't affect truly "elite" players according to their own posted boasts.
I'm not a fan of ideas that keep people from simple basic gameplay.
I'm also not a fan of the injury system itself as it was a poorly implemented idea pushed for by the players oh so long ago. And I quite remember how strong the push for the system was. Well we got it just like it was asked for. And if over that time I softened on the idea enough to use it for RP purposes (since it's relatively worthless in gameplay mechanics) ... I'm kind of set on keeping the status quo.
Easy all around. Those who may not realize they've still got injuries can be reminded to do so right there, and are less likely to forget. Anyone damaged in the run can back off and heal up in a snap (of course, assuming they're not the aggro target and CAN get out of range to heal)
Remember, you are only as good as your set-up is. If you can't handle an Elite run and having a team mate acquire damage....
So, deliberately limit the capability of your ship, join in a team action where how much your ship contributes makes a difference to the final reward for all, and you think you should be rewarded over and above the people that might have to carry you thropugh said fleet action?
Surely, in this case, the 'challenge' you refer to should be its own reward, no?
I favour there being a more visual representation of damage, because I suspect that a large proportion of these people simply dont realise they are damaged.
Make it more obvious to them, especially if its in a cool way, and a large part of the issue goes away.
The people that actively choose to fly with injuries should just team up with the Tier 1 Connie crew and have at it.
I guess I can see your point there, though I honestly don't like or want to carry those people, regardless of whether the rest of the group makes up for it or not. I can get behind the idea of more visual representation of injuries/damage, though, and maybe things like slower movement/cooldowns for certain injuries, if there isn't (never been damaged bad enough for long enough to actually notice).
I can see why the idea of injuries restricting people from playing STFs would be a bad idea, though. Some people like you save an injury or two for RP purposes, others just ran out of components/regenerators and aren't currently at a starbase while running a few STFs, etc. I just find it aggravating that we get stuck with people either too lazy to learn the game mechanics or simply just trolling people (one ground pug I had, there was a character with 20-30 injuries and no personal shield equipped) because of a lack of Kick mechanic and nobody wanting to get saddled with a leaver penalty over one person.