oh, that's another thing...the rifts should despawn immediately when the ship that spawned them is destroyed, along with any free-floating snotballs spawned by said rift
if players have to put up with their hazards, hangar pets and other deployables vanishing when they die, so should NPCs
Man, all of the QQ over a minor annoyance reminds me of something...
Oh right, EVERY time they add a new race to fight that uses tactics that skew the players ability to do anything slightly. (Preventing players from DPS Facerolololing will generally garner more QQ then normal)
Voth? QQ about their tactics.
The Voth were one-shotting players with their deflector shields in the same way players in pvp used to be one-shotted with Feedback Pulse. You would die before you were able to stop firing.
Their gravity wells were also dealing way more kinetic damage because multiple ships were stacking gravity wells, which were literally cooking ships inside their shields even with buffed out kinetic damage resistance and heals. Of course, you would just pop like a zit if one of the ships used subnuke on you.
Defense of New Romulus was toned down due to the QQ.
Partially correct. For the level you had to play the mission at, it was pretty ridiculous. It wasn't an end-game mission, but it felt like one when you were what? A commander? Lt. Cmdr?
Borg Spheres got their EPtE nerfed because of the QQ.
All enemies got their EPtE nerfed because they were getting stuck in the geometry, like the gateway in ISE, which made trying to position yourself to shoot them a little ridiculous. An NPC purposefully getting stuck in geometry because the AI is not used to using abilities like EptE is not a 'new tactic', it's an unintended consequence of giving NPCs a new ability.
Just QQ until everything is back to facerolololers online status quo.
Not that I expect you to have read the thread or anything, but most of us are perfectly fine with the challenge that the undine snot rifts present. What we are not okay with is an apparent lack of a hard counter that all ships (not just escorts with APO) are able to utilize and expect to be freed.
And we're also not okay with snot rifts being spammed like the voth's gravity wells were. They lack the damage the gravity wells do, but the inability to get away from them easily is bad game design.
Asking for balanced game design (like hard counters) is not QQing. It's called being sane and rational, and it's a fundamental of any decent game.
Reduce the spawn and make them destructed using the Undine rep weapons, I am talking the snot balls here not the GW. Balance this by making other weapon types actually power up the damage even more, even making the grow to encase more ships. This would make teamwork and communication more important.
I am not sure what skill to close the gw rifts, maybe make it a sci thing. Maybe TR could be the one as it could drain the energy of them and so weakening them.
Maybe if they made them destructable but immune to energy damage and with enough HP that the KCB alone isn't enough? But hit it with a torpedo or two...
That would let it stay strong enough to be significant (because lets face it, its nice having a non-damage power that works for a change) and not simply break out the nerf bat, but give us a reason to diversify to counter as well.
No make it targetable/destructible but make it strong enough to take a couple of hits. This will kill two birds one stone and tone down the A2B faw.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
And if you're not flying an escort or destroyer, requires you to visit a skill trainer every. Single. Time you want to do Undine space (EDIT: or have a dedicated extra tac boff just for the occasion). All my builds are for cruisers and use Beta, which works fine for every other piece of content.
Seriously, even the nerfed moronic Undine they put in "Assimilation" are a pain in the TRIBBLE unless you have the spike damage to kill them ****ing dead before they can pop more than a couple of rifts. And at least there they've got the Borg to distract them.
Yeah, I hear you. My Klingon uses the dyson ship and I have to switch to tactical, though I don't like to, to get the omega. I don't have any luck with polarize or evasive. I'll try hazard next.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Yeah, I hear you. My Klingon uses the dyson ship and I have to switch to tactical, though I don't like to, to get the omega. I don't have any luck with polarize or evasive. I'll try hazard next.
well, i tried hazard earlier when i was doing my daily battlezone run
i can definitively confirm that it clears both the snotball's DoT and its slow, and continues cleansing them for the duration (unlike EWP and all its derivatives), so that's something, at least...
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Man, all of the QQ over a minor annoyance reminds me of something...
Oh right, EVERY time they add a new race to fight that uses tactics that skew the players ability to do anything slightly. (Preventing players from DPS Facerolololing will generally garner more QQ then normal)
Voth? QQ about their tactics.
Elachi? QQ about their tactics.
Tholians? QQ about their tactics.
Defense of New Romulus was toned down due to the QQ.
They straight-up removed the D'Deridex Defender mob because of QQ about it's tactics.
Borg Spheres got their EPtE nerfed because of the QQ.
Just QQ until everything is back to facerolololers online status quo.
Yes because chasing a running sphere is such a challenge.
I felt so proud when I was able to catch one ! Like you know, I really did something hardcore !
Or not.
Make the AI smarter, I would like that. Make the AI use our tactics (a2b, feedback pulse...), I would like that. Make the AI challenging, I would like that. Make battle that need teamwork, I would love that.
Keeping the same flying zombies and adding annoying and frustrating abilities ? There is no fun, and there is no challenge.
Even simply using EPtS or EPtW instead of EPtE would be better.
I noticed something curious about the rift and blobs, they linger for a long looong time after the npc ship that cast them is destroyed. Normally I thought any time based science ability would dissipate shortly after the ship that casts them is blown up. That's what they need to do to balance the rifts and blobs to make them less annoying. They should vanish immediately upon the death of the ship that casts them.
Undine spam snotballs like Tholians spam disables and power/shield drains. They're both as ridiculous as the Subnuc spam originally was before it got changed so only some NPC ships capable of using it would actually have it, and should be given similar treatment.
1. The rifts themselves aply a low strength pull, easy to escape with no extra help whatsoever and minimal damage
2. The snot balls, these can inflict quite noticeable damage if you get in one.
3.The Undine weapons have the incubation proc which applies a massive speed and turn rate debuff. Evasive does not clear this and it mostly negates Evasive's boost. Hazard Emitters do clear it. Not sure about the rest, but based on Evasive i'd imagine Immunities to Holds, Knocks, and Repels won;t do it.
This is why people are getting different experiences. Get hit with the proc and the Rift but the snot balls stay away and you just get stuck in lace. Don't get hit with the proc and you can freely escape in cruisers without hitting evasive. Get hit with the proc, caught in a rift and have a snotball or 3 sit on the rift and you'll get massive damage intake you can't escape.
1. The rifts themselves aply a low strength pull, easy to escape with no extra help whatsoever and minimal damage
2. The snot balls, these can inflict quite noticeable damage if you get in one.
3.The Undine weapons have the incubation proc which applies a massive speed and turn rate debuff. Evasive does not clear this and it mostly negates Evasive's boost. Hazard Emitters do clear it. Not sure about the rest, but based on Evasive i'd imagine Immunities to Holds, Knocks, and Repels won;t do it.
This is why people are getting different experiences. Get hit with the proc and the Rift but the snot balls stay away and you just get stuck in lace. Don't get hit with the proc and you can freely escape in cruisers without hitting evasive. Get hit with the proc, caught in a rift and have a snotball or 3 sit on the rift and you'll get massive damage intake you can't escape.
the snot balls apply -turn speed and flight speed debuffs as well as doing damage...the incubation effect on undine weapons just amplifies that
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I've personally not found them to be a problem in terms of damaging my ship, the damage is easily doable for me.
My problem comes from the insane drop in framerate I get when many of these things show up in a crowded instance. Often I'm forced to just sit tight end use survival tanking tactics and try to lay down as much fire as I can in the hopes someone with less lag can finish the objective. I notice this the most on the fed control points when there are a few of us there. So much going on in such a small area sometimes.
Edit: I refer to the snotballs of lag doom. I find the rifts easy enough to deal with with attack pattern omega.
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
People who say these things are easy to get away from clearly don't fly large ships.
Yeah i don't have much difficulty pulling away in a BoP.
But If i fly something massive like a Bortas or D'deridex Evasive or Deuterium batteries aren't going to get my anywhere other than maybe prevent me from being pulled further in.
Snotballs are worse as they end up becoming un-dodgeable, and its completely impossible to maintain 100% uptime with Hazard Emitters.
For the love of God, this is Gravity Well on steroid...
It is the worst things about the Undine battlezone,
Yeah, these things are the poster children for OPness. You see 4-5 players unable to get loose of these things. They last way too long, are way too strong and you can't even target them to kill them. And if you do take EP2Engines to get away, by the time you get out of the effect I'm 12km away from the fight and trying to turn my Oddy whale around.
And add in that there can be 3-4 of these things in one area and you just can't move anywhere!
Cryptic really went stupid on the overpowered effects of these. Even their initial description was stupid. Fluidic Space leaking into our space (aka flowing in) but pulls ships towards the rift. WTF? :rolleyes:
None, but I usually fly a Tacscort.I can manuver around the space snot. I can evasive manuver my way from rifts. I can see why flying a whale cruiser would suck. My engineer has been using his Excelsior, and I really havent had much trouble.
I kind of like that the undine abilities are like this. Its variety. Making it near impossible to stay in one place and fire at the undine has made those fights a lot more interesting. When I respec my skills I'm seriously thinking about shoving points into the movement negation ones.
I kind of like that the undine abilities are like this. Its variety. Making it near impossible to stay in one place and fire at the undine has made those fights a lot more interesting. When I respec my skills I'm seriously thinking about shoving points into the movement negation ones.
but... it is possible to stay in the same place, i do it all the time when fighting undine, if you have both 2 piece borg+omega hull repair trait, 95% of the time you won't even feel the damage, from either the balls or the gravity well, or both together, and if do, just pop engineering team/hazard emitters/aux to struct, if you're flying an escort, just make sure you're carrying APO, if not just run a beam setup.
Bio-Molecular Fluidic Space Counter Blast is your friend...it kills the bubbles...or puddles...or whatever they are called...
...oh wait...it actually does NOT WORK ATM ! It does absolutley nothing every 2 minutes...well...a nice light show...but nothing else :mad:
I'm trying like hell to get that full set. Running the ground event over and over isn't the fastest way to do it, even with fighting in the space zone in between runs.
Hopefully it will be fixed by the time I can get it.
Comments
Agreed, 100% agreed.
The Voth were one-shotting players with their deflector shields in the same way players in pvp used to be one-shotted with Feedback Pulse. You would die before you were able to stop firing.
Their gravity wells were also dealing way more kinetic damage because multiple ships were stacking gravity wells, which were literally cooking ships inside their shields even with buffed out kinetic damage resistance and heals. Of course, you would just pop like a zit if one of the ships used subnuke on you.
Partially correct. For the level you had to play the mission at, it was pretty ridiculous. It wasn't an end-game mission, but it felt like one when you were what? A commander? Lt. Cmdr?
All enemies got their EPtE nerfed because they were getting stuck in the geometry, like the gateway in ISE, which made trying to position yourself to shoot them a little ridiculous. An NPC purposefully getting stuck in geometry because the AI is not used to using abilities like EptE is not a 'new tactic', it's an unintended consequence of giving NPCs a new ability.
Not that I expect you to have read the thread or anything, but most of us are perfectly fine with the challenge that the undine snot rifts present. What we are not okay with is an apparent lack of a hard counter that all ships (not just escorts with APO) are able to utilize and expect to be freed.
And we're also not okay with snot rifts being spammed like the voth's gravity wells were. They lack the damage the gravity wells do, but the inability to get away from them easily is bad game design.
Asking for balanced game design (like hard counters) is not QQing. It's called being sane and rational, and it's a fundamental of any decent game.
I am not sure what skill to close the gw rifts, maybe make it a sci thing. Maybe TR could be the one as it could drain the energy of them and so weakening them.
No make it targetable/destructible but make it strong enough to take a couple of hits. This will kill two birds one stone and tone down the A2B faw.
Yeah, I hear you. My Klingon uses the dyson ship and I have to switch to tactical, though I don't like to, to get the omega. I don't have any luck with polarize or evasive. I'll try hazard next.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
i can definitively confirm that it clears both the snotball's DoT and its slow, and continues cleansing them for the duration (unlike EWP and all its derivatives), so that's something, at least...
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I felt so proud when I was able to catch one ! Like you know, I really did something hardcore !
Or not.
Make the AI smarter, I would like that. Make the AI use our tactics (a2b, feedback pulse...), I would like that. Make the AI challenging, I would like that. Make battle that need teamwork, I would love that.
Keeping the same flying zombies and adding annoying and frustrating abilities ? There is no fun, and there is no challenge.
Even simply using EPtS or EPtW instead of EPtE would be better.
There are 3 effects at work here.
1. The rifts themselves aply a low strength pull, easy to escape with no extra help whatsoever and minimal damage
2. The snot balls, these can inflict quite noticeable damage if you get in one.
3.The Undine weapons have the incubation proc which applies a massive speed and turn rate debuff. Evasive does not clear this and it mostly negates Evasive's boost. Hazard Emitters do clear it. Not sure about the rest, but based on Evasive i'd imagine Immunities to Holds, Knocks, and Repels won;t do it.
This is why people are getting different experiences. Get hit with the proc and the Rift but the snot balls stay away and you just get stuck in lace. Don't get hit with the proc and you can freely escape in cruisers without hitting evasive. Get hit with the proc, caught in a rift and have a snotball or 3 sit on the rift and you'll get massive damage intake you can't escape.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
My problem comes from the insane drop in framerate I get when many of these things show up in a crowded instance. Often I'm forced to just sit tight end use survival tanking tactics and try to lay down as much fire as I can in the hopes someone with less lag can finish the objective. I notice this the most on the fed control points when there are a few of us there. So much going on in such a small area sometimes.
Edit: I refer to the snotballs of lag doom. I find the rifts easy enough to deal with with attack pattern omega.
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
Yeah i don't have much difficulty pulling away in a BoP.
But If i fly something massive like a Bortas or D'deridex Evasive or Deuterium batteries aren't going to get my anywhere other than maybe prevent me from being pulled further in.
Snotballs are worse as they end up becoming un-dodgeable, and its completely impossible to maintain 100% uptime with Hazard Emitters.
Yeah, these things are the poster children for OPness. You see 4-5 players unable to get loose of these things. They last way too long, are way too strong and you can't even target them to kill them. And if you do take EP2Engines to get away, by the time you get out of the effect I'm 12km away from the fight and trying to turn my Oddy whale around.
And add in that there can be 3-4 of these things in one area and you just can't move anywhere!
Cryptic really went stupid on the overpowered effects of these. Even their initial description was stupid. Fluidic Space leaking into our space (aka flowing in) but pulls ships towards the rift. WTF? :rolleyes:
None, but I usually fly a Tacscort.I can manuver around the space snot. I can evasive manuver my way from rifts. I can see why flying a whale cruiser would suck. My engineer has been using his Excelsior, and I really havent had much trouble.
but... it is possible to stay in the same place, i do it all the time when fighting undine, if you have both 2 piece borg+omega hull repair trait, 95% of the time you won't even feel the damage, from either the balls or the gravity well, or both together, and if do, just pop engineering team/hazard emitters/aux to struct, if you're flying an escort, just make sure you're carrying APO, if not just run a beam setup.
...oh wait...it actually does NOT WORK ATM ! It does absolutley nothing every 2 minutes...well...a nice light show...but nothing else :mad:
I'm trying like hell to get that full set. Running the ground event over and over isn't the fastest way to do it, even with fighting in the space zone in between runs.
Hopefully it will be fixed by the time I can get it.