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Spammy Fluidic Rift is Spammy...

odstparker#7820 odstparker Member Posts: 466 Arc User
For the love of God, this is Gravity Well on steroid...

It is the worst things about the Undine battlezone, and the reason why I will only play it long enough to get the special items needed to get all of the reputation set items.

Not only does it grab you from a significant distance, damage you while you're close to it, AND slow down your speed and turn rate SIGNIFICANTLY, it appears so often that I'm constantly having to convince myself not to add Emergency Engine Power to every Engineering boff slot.

I think it's a challenge to have this ability used against you, but it should, without a doubt, have a longer cooldown timer, and should NEVER be used as an initial attack, because it is absolutely crippling. These things appear CONSTANTLY, especially if you bring a huge amount of players (my fleet made a large incursion into Undine sphere space on release of Season 9, dozens of ships). There were so many of these rifts around that I could only see every fifth frame, not to mention being pulled around, pulled away from my target, and being destroyed in the process.

Please look into this power, it is extremely annoying, far past the point of simply being a challenge.
Post edited by odstparker#7820 on
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Comments

  • chiyoumikuchiyoumiku Member Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Gravity Well + Power Drain + 9 dozen player Gravimetric Torps (And yes they drain if you're too close) = Insanity. The Rifts need a slight toning down.
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,284 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    agreed...way too strong on its own, but throw in the snotball spam it spawns and it gets infinitely worse
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  • rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    agreed...way too strong on its own, but throw in the snotball spam it spawns and it gets infinitely worse

    yeah, it's its own GW + warp plasma combo in one.
  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I'm beefy enough the damage is laughable, but holy hell do I get knocked around by it. Such a drag. :rolleyes:
  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Maybe if they made them destructable but immune to energy damage and with enough HP that the KCB alone isn't enough? But hit it with a torpedo or two...

    That would let it stay strong enough to be significant (because lets face it, its nice having a non-damage power that works for a change) and not simply break out the nerf bat, but give us a reason to diversify to counter as well.
  • chiyoumikuchiyoumiku Member Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The only time, though, I've been blown up was not due to the rifts or bubbles... parking to close to a planet killer when it explodes xD But that's my fault, not cryptic's.
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  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Yeap, the rifts that you have to stand near in order to claim an objective arent dangerous to a solid ship, but the pulling and the constant damage ticks that prevent you from claiming the objective sure do make them annoying. And they make the Undine maps annoying. They should be manageable somehow, let us close them or push the snotballs away with TBR or something.
  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,724 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I think they're fine now. Having to be aware of your surroundings and making a choice of either moving or hunkering down is a good thing.

    The gimmick of fighting the Undine is that they involuntarily move your ship around - from their wells to the their megabeams to the nature of fluidic space itself. Compared to how it was originally on tribble where you could regularly have 3-5 of them all going on at once and fighting to pull you in multiple directions with no ability to escape them at point blank, it's certainly manageable now.
  • simeion1simeion1 Member Posts: 898 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I agree 100%. While i have no problem with game play like this, it is only fair to give players a counter to this insane BS. It is artificial difficulty and artificial difficulty is bad and lazy game design. They can keep the drain, pull, and damage the same if there was a way to counter this ability. What makes me more mad is that they released this season in the state of condition it is in. I use to be babble to play this game on my graphics card highest setting, now I have to tone it down just to prevent graphics lag. Such a shame, this game is pretty when you can run on high setting.
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  • kolbrandrkolbrandr Member Posts: 266
    edited April 2014
    I'm just tired of playing beam turret in space every time one of these pops up, which means I am playing a lot of beam turret. Even evasive maneuvers doesn't pull my space pig out of them.

    I quit Viscous Cycle entirely because of these. Things seem a bit more reasonable in the space battlezone.
  • captainrevo1captainrevo1 Member Posts: 3,948 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I hate these things and the seems to be no counter. Either tone them down or let polarise hull or something negate their effect.
  • iceeaglexiceeaglex Member Posts: 375 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    szerontzur wrote: »
    I think they're fine now. Having to be aware of your surroundings and making a choice of either moving or hunkering down is a good thing.


    I am aware of my surroundings. I am aware that my objective is right next to me and i need to wait 10 seconds without damage to complete said objective.
    I am aware that there is a rift doing constant damage, on said objective.

    Now how does being aware of my surroundings help me?


    Hunkering down or moving? Well, moving away from the objective means i cannot complete the objective.
    Hunkering down on my objective while a constant damage rift prevents me from completing the objective.

    Now how does making a choice help me?
  • platewearingbirdplatewearingbird Member Posts: 455 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Fluidic rift and grav well are the only things I need my engine setting for, and I can deal with gravity well.

    But Fluidic rift is too spammy, lasts way too long (at least double the duration of grav well), and pulls way too hard. It simply takes players out of the fight for way too long and it can't even be deemed a challenge cuz there's no avioiding it if dropped right on you.

    It's a nuisance.
  • a3001a3001 Member Posts: 1,132 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    enoemg wrote: »
    For the love of God, this is Gravity Well on steroid...

    It is the worst things about the Undine battlezone, and the reason why I will only play it long enough to get the special items needed to get all of the reputation set items.

    Not only does it grab you from a significant distance, damage you while you're close to it, AND slow down your speed and turn rate SIGNIFICANTLY, it appears so often that I'm constantly having to convince myself not to add Emergency Engine Power to every Engineering boff slot.

    I think it's a challenge to have this ability used against you, but it should, without a doubt, have a longer cooldown timer, and should NEVER be used as an initial attack, because it is absolutely crippling. These things appear CONSTANTLY, especially if you bring a huge amount of players (my fleet made a large incursion into Undine sphere space on release of Season 9, dozens of ships). There were so many of these rifts around that I could only see every fifth frame, not to mention being pulled around, pulled away from my target, and being destroyed in the process.

    Please look into this power, it is extremely annoying, far past the point of simply being a challenge.

    While I do agree that the Undine Rift is at worst debilitating, I do find that it forces one to change tactics from being a DPS siege engine to a swift ninja assassin. Remember that in the blog the devs state that the Undine are meant to outmaneuver and occasionally outgun you. I find this change of pace from the Borg STF DPS Siege engine style to dogfighter a welcomed change of pace.
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  • sunfranckssunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    It is truly annoying. The rate at which the Undine spam these rifts must be broken. It isn't fun in the slightest...
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  • phoeniciusphoenicius Member Posts: 762 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I hate these things and the seems to be no counter. Either tone them down or let polarise hull or something negate their effect.

    they do have a counter of sorts, attack pattern omega, it lets you ignore the pull, also folks in the thread complaining about it being bull**** lol, their damage isn't high, even a papership can tank them, just strap borg hull repair trait and laugh at the damage, IMO the voth were vastly more annoying than the undine, with their damn frigates popping every fighter with that ability of theirs and cloaking/creating clones, bastions and bulwarks having uber shields and shooting subnucleonics/acetons, if the rifts bother so much, just prioritize the vila heavy bioships, since they're the ones who spawn 90% of them.

    the undine are an improvement when you think about it, at least to me.


    but yeah they're annoying.
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I hate these things and the seems to be no counter. Either tone them down or let polarise hull or something negate their effect.

    Agreed. The only thing that seems to counter this TRIBBLE is Evasive Maneuvers and Emergency Power to Engines combined, and then only sometimes.

    I'm actually getting really tired of Crowd Control resistance in the game being a joke. Whether on ground or in space, you're supposed to have skills that allow you to resist getting stunned, held, locked down, whatever.

    My vulcan's Mental Discipline clicky does jack against getting his face mauled by voth dinos while he's pinned to the ground -- even after the thing is dead. It does jack against Salt Vampires who hold him, stun him, or confuse him.

    My ship's Inertial Damper skill does jack against that fluidic gravity well that the Undine love to spam. So does Polarize Hull, and my fleet has confirmed that there's no way to destroy the fluidic gunk with charged particle burst, photonic shockwave, or with other anomalies.

    My Engine Capacitor on my Elite Fleet Warp Core just makes little spinny graphics on my impulse engines when I'm caught in one of these things. It does nothing else.

    Deuterium Burn works sometimes (just like Evasive). The only thing that really seems to work is stacking engine buffs, but at that point it's like a slingshot and as soon as you break free you more or less go careening across the map and have to turn around.

    Like you're a piece of food that just got launched out of someone's throat after they've been given the Heimlich maneuver.

    The T2 Undine Rep space power has +15 control resistance.

    Which again does absolutely jack against that fluidic TRIBBLE. Don't even bother putting that trait on unless you really want the antiproton resistance.

    Your crowd control mechanics in this game are a joke, and the players' ability to counter said crowd control is just as much as a joke since it's very selective on what they work against.

    Make crowd control resistance and break-free clickies universal or remove these broken game mechanics until they are.
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  • shandypandyshandypandy Member Posts: 632 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Aux to dampeners does the trick with the hold on them.
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  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Aux to dampeners does the trick with the hold on them.

    At 115 aux and Aux to ID 1 activated (with 3 points put into Inertial Dampers), I turn faster, but I still can't escape the snot rifts.

    Which is bs, since that same set-up has allowed me to counter any other kind of similar crowd control in the game enough to be noticable.

    The undine should not be any different. What counter works for one kind of hold/slow/reverse repel in the game should work for them all.

    The fact they now apparently have to split hairs and have a firm distinction between the Inertial Damper skill and Control Resistance is really just poor game design. It just makes the game more confusing while pissing players off who seem to think that devoting skill points to the ship's ability to resist crowd control powers should... actually resist crowd control powers.

    Because hey, apparently you're a bad player for buffing out your Inertial Damper skill and having the power Aux to Inertial Damper -- you should have been buffing out Control Resistance the entire time, scrub!
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  • shandypandyshandypandy Member Posts: 632 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    iconians wrote: »
    At 115 aux and Aux to ID 1 activated (with 3 points put into Inertial Dampers), I turn faster, but I still can't escape the snot rifts.

    Which is bs, since that same set-up has allowed me to counter any other kind of similar crowd control in the game enough to be noticable.

    The undine should not be any different. What counter works for one kind of hold/slow/reverse repel in the game should work for them all.

    The fact they now apparently have to split hairs and have a firm distinction between the Inertial Damper skill and Control Resistance is really just poor game design. It just makes the game more confusing while pissing players off who seem to think that devoting skill points to the ship's ability to resist crowd control powers should... actually resist crowd control powers.

    Huh. That's odd. Neither seem to affect me (noticeably) when its up. I get the dam aga tick off the snot, but not held or owt by either.
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  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Huh. That's odd. Neither seem to affect me (noticeably) when its up. I get the dam aga tick off the snot, but not held or owt by either.

    I have a theory. What ship do you use Aux to ID with?
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  • doffingcomradedoffingcomrade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I haven't found these snotballs to be much more than a nuisance. It's kind of annoying that there's only one power in the game capable of destroying them, and that power isn't really accessible until after you no longer ever need it again, though.
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  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I haven't found these snotballs to be much more than a nuisance. It's kind of annoying that there's only one power in the game capable of destroying them, and that power isn't really accessible until after you no longer ever need it again, though.

    Kind of like getting the T5 Dyson Space Set, knowing it's going to be super-badass against the Voth Contested Zone.

    But by the time you max out your T5 Dyson Rep and get a bunch of those marks getting that set, you're so sick of the Voth Contested zone you never end up using it.
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  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Come on guys, the Devs introduce a new game mechanic and you're all QQing to the forums, surely a change in tactics from Borg STFs is all that's required. I've played them in several ships and you just adapt, fly around them or ignore them, they do bugger all damage anyway. Aren't you all sick of doing STFs that are over in 3 minutes?

    I tried to get two players from Public EliteSTF channel to run HSE with 3 from my fleet that were waiting, not one person answered and whilst I waited 5 instances of ISE were formed in said channel. It seems most people want easy wins nowadays and the first mechanic that comes along to make people work at an objective is slated in the forums, sigh.

    I think if you read the thread, you'd notice most of the complaints are grounded in the reality that there are very few viable tactics to use to escape the spammy snot rifts.

    Attack Pattern Omega? Okay, but then you end up excluding 2/3rds of ships which may not be able to use it, namely cruisers and science vessels.

    Stack engine buffs? Okay, but that's not really a counter so much as overpowering your engines to the point you end up like Dark Helmet and crash into the viewscreen when you finally want to stop.

    Before writing people off as whining and QQing over a new game mechanic, you should probably read the context and notice that people don't mind the challenge -- we just want hard counters to them just like there are hard counters to everything else in the game, and don't think the Undine should be excluded from the currently-existing game mechanics of there being a counter to every power.

    Asking for there to be a viable hard counter to crowd control isn't whining or QQing, it's pretty basic game design that has been around for decades.
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  • decroniadecronia Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    It's not so much about easy wins it's more about counters to it, and the spam of them and snot balls that can cause major slideshows on some people machines, and not necessarily low spec ones either.

    I counter it on my Rom with the jump, on other characters I do have a problem as all the BOFFs I have with AP-omega need a commander slot and my ship doesn't have that. I have looked on the exchange but got to the stage of eye gauging because of the lack of search parameters. This I accept as a limitation of my ship, choices and consequences so I counter the damage.

    Even evasive maneuvers seems to have no effect in this area.

    I must say I am tad disappointed with this new battle zone. After enjoying the Voth one I was looking forward to this one. Now I wish they have added a ground zone too.
  • seriousdaveseriousdave Member Posts: 2,777 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    a3001 wrote: »
    While I do agree that the Undine Rift is at worst debilitating, I do find that it forces one to change tactics from being a DPS siege engine to a swift ninja assassin. Remember that in the blog the devs state that the Undine are meant to outmaneuver and occasionally outgun you. I find this change of pace from the Borg STF DPS Siege engine style to dogfighter a welcomed change of pace.

    "swift ninja assassin" and "dogfighter style" ? I guess its safe to assume that you only use escorts. Cruisers on the other hand can't really pull off such tactitcs and end up stuck in these rifts until they finally stop only to be pulled in the next one spawning (most of the time) right next to them. They do bring a change of pace but for people with bigger and slower ships (me included) these rifts are nightmare material.
  • burstorionburstorion Member Posts: 1,750 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I'm not fond of the bubbles - Its an intresting battle, granted as it means my skill at weaving in and out the bubbles unscathed is tested ... however...

    I fly the corvette - my typical constant speed is 130 to 200 impulse and with that I can basically ignore the mob grav wells and so on, oupace the bioplasmic torps (learning in the process you can make them hit the one who fired them) and generally move about faster than a hamster on speed.

    The bubbles however..there is no counter which defeats the point of building to bypass them (heck, if anything sci team or hazard emmiters should provide immunity) - as soon as they are out, theres no way to not be affected by it, other than retreating from the area (which is pointless) - then on top is the terrible gfx slowdown that can be incurred (undine warzone is basically a faw only zone imo, as you can spam it even when the game graphics stutter)
  • notapwefannotapwefan Member Posts: 1,138 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    you know if you have evasive ready (cool down cut by appropriate doff) and delithium surplus available in your ship devices then you can escape out of it without any problem.

    I was never been bothered by it, and I consider it as a as last ditch effort/desperate attempt from undine overwhelmed by combined assult of starfleet, KDF and rommies.
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  • emacsheadroomemacsheadroom Member Posts: 994 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Has anyone tested tractor beam repulsors on the blobs? I haven't tried it myself and I doubt it works, but it really should.
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