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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

Squishy Ships

brazen1acebrazen1ace Member Posts: 159
edited April 2014 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
Ok so this is kinda the reverse of whining about things being too OP. Well sort of, but for once it is not players. Since the patch on the 25th my ships seem a little more likely to explode on me. After being able to re-spec my Fed eng. char. Thanks Cryptic!!! I spec-ed him for a tank role. Except...it does not seem very tanky. In fact I think I blew up more times than I did before the re-spec. Which does not make much sense since my Char. had skill points distributed in a horrible way. I did not know how to apply them when I first made the char. Now that I do know what I am doing and was able to re-do it...well...it is worse. O.o And this seems to include my science char. as well. Now I get that the Voth and Undine are a challenge, they should be. But if Cryptic is either going to buff something or Nerf it, that should be clear in the patch notes. Which having read them is not! Anyone else noticed this?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • chezmazterchezmazter Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    It's due to the rep changes. You've got far less reps and resistances.
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited April 2014
    Romulans are the best tanks now using the broken/OP Valdore console
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • theroyalfamilytheroyalfamily Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Except not. All of my alts - none of which had any defensive space rep passives before - are also a lot more fragile. Obviously, the enemies hit a lot harder. This has been confirmed by a lot of people, so don't try to pass it off as "muh passives." It seems they crit a lot more, and they proc more than before.
  • brazen1acebrazen1ace Member Posts: 159
    edited April 2014
    And I have at least three of the reps finished. I am in an Oddy Star Cruiser. That before was a tank! I have the adapted MACO. set on it. and a few others. I could go into pvp and sometimes hold my own against the kind of ship that pvp-ers use. My shield hardly ever went down. If anything I feel that they somehow nerfed the shields.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited April 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • k022#6452 k022
    k022#6452
         Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    That and my ship seems a slower than before the patch. I used to zip along and now NPC ships zip around me. I have checked power levels engines and warp core, its all the same, but I just seem to be flying though molasses.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • lagomorphiclagomorphic Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I've found a good work around for the exploding ships issue. You just need to not be terrible at the game.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    2 possibilites that come to mind:
    - How many here rely on the Assimilated Set Hull heal?
    - Some people report that the Elite Undine Queued missions have become a lot more difficult recently. Could be somethnig is bugged in regards to enemies?

    I have strong doubts its the reputation passives, because most people probably slotted the offensive passives anyway, and while you have less passives now active at a time, the ones you have will be stronger than they used to.

    The Borg Set is a good candidate for me because I've seen how dominant it actually is. It's basically the single largest hull healing element in the game. Or at least, it used to be.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • hunteralpha84hunteralpha84 Member Posts: 524 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    lagomorphic wrote: »
    I've found a good work around for the exploding ships issue. You just need to not be terrible at the game.

    Almost spat my breakfast over my monitor! :D

    I have to admit it requires a bit more effort to survive in the elite stfs but I'm not having that much trouble and I'm in my new avenger class. I can't see myself having any trouble in a true cruiser.
  • ledgend1221ledgend1221 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I still tank like a freaking hero in my Oddy.
    So I don't know what's going on, unless you're tanking in an escort.
  • coupaholiccoupaholic Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    The Borg Set is a good candidate for me because I've seen how dominant it actually is. It's basically the single largest hull healing element in the game. Or at least, it used to be.

    I wonder how the Undine set will compare, I would assume it comes with some sort of regenerative abilities.

    Personally I've had no problems with staying alive at all. In fact I'm quite happy the tank has got some support here. Now players actually get damaged and blown up, they have their role back.
  • decroniadecronia Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I have noticed shields going down quickly and have gone bang a couple of times, this is not a complaint just an observation. Now I thought it might be the change to the Borg set, so I went to do the Rommy patrol mission. These I did long before I got any rep or fleet gear or any rep passives and they are not as tough as the newer enemies. The same thing happened shields went down quick I was using my shield heals a lot.

    It has been talked about in game and someone mentioned dismissing your shuttle as that solved it for them. I haven't tried that yet. Though it does make me wonder if there is a bug.
  • nesomumi2nesomumi2 Member Posts: 359 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    well of course you will go down faster, get of the power to weapons trip and suddenly you will feel much better, but there will be no more 30k dps for you. that was the point of the new system.
    all i can say that i have 0 problems whit explosions, and depending on what class im playing, i do 12 - 20k dps, im happy whit that.
  • decroniadecronia Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    In order of highest to lowest numbers for my power levels:
    1. Aux
    2. Shields
    3. Weapons
    4. Engines

    So that's one of your "theories" down.
  • noinfoavailablenoinfoavailable Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    brazen1ace wrote: »
    Ok so this is kinda the reverse of whining about things being too OP. Well sort of, but for once it is not players. Since the patch on the 25th my ships seem a little more likely to explode on me. After being able to re-spec my Fed eng. char. Thanks Cryptic!!! I spec-ed him for a tank role. Except...it does not seem very tanky. In fact I think I blew up more times than I did before the re-spec. Which does not make much sense since my Char. had skill points distributed in a horrible way. I did not know how to apply them when I first made the char. Now that I do know what I am doing and was able to re-do it...well...it is worse. O.o And this seems to include my science char. as well. Now I get that the Voth and Undine are a challenge, they should be. But if Cryptic is either going to buff something or Nerf it, that should be clear in the patch notes. Which having read them is not! Anyone else noticed this?

    Its not just you noticing it. While I don't feel overly squishy against most things, elite breach is currently one shotting people. It may be the same for all voth elite. I only did it once since the update on my science ship but am going to try it on my assault cruiser now. Expecting pain and suffering. Harder would be good, but just upping damage is poor.
  • noinfoavailablenoinfoavailable Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    ledgend1221 wrote: »
    I still tank like a freaking hero in my Oddy.
    So I don't know what's going on, unless you're tanking in an escort.

    Can you take it into elite breach and see how it goes? I am not being smart I am curious. My science ship was getting smashed in there and am about to take my assault cruiser in however the que seems to be dead (wonder why!)
  • saeynsaeyn Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The Borg set still heals a lot, just not as much as it used to.
  • staq16staq16 Member Posts: 1,181 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    darthmeow504 wrote: »
    I've had this problem as well. I don't find exploding very fun and I don't imagine why anyone else would either. The game is supposed to reward our work and make us feel like heroes, right? Getting our asses handed to us is not conduscive to this.

    Thank you for coming out and saying this. I've argued in numerous threads that the key issue is dislocation of expectation - namely, players have got used to not getting blown up, so getting blown up now comes as a rude shock. It's not that the missions are unplayable, it's that there is a chunk of the playerbase that simply doesn't like being taken down by NPCs. I salute your honesty and understand your point, but please be aware that there are some of us that don't mind getting splatted - it's all part of the game.

    Personally I don't have a problem getting blown up - it means I've got something to work on in terms of my builds and gameplay - and tackling foes like the Borg, Voth and Undine, even the most powerful Fed / Klingon / Romulan vessels should be heavily challenged. Heck, I think that STO spends too much effort on making players feel like Kirk / Picard / Archer rather than being part of a large space navy. But that's a personal view.
  • edgecrysgeredgecrysger Member Posts: 2,740 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Maybe now, they are just how they were supossied to be since the beginning. But, meh, people will always complain for everything, even for stupid things.
  • lowy1lowy1 Member Posts: 964 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Check your species traits. You might have ground and Space mixed when you don't need it mixed.

    Also, get the Living Hull Trait...That should help a lot with your precious MACO Set.
    HzLLhLB.gif

  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,724 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Something does feel a bit.. off, but I'm not really sure what it is yet.

    I run a wide variety of characters with different ships and playstyles; they can generally hold their own just fine and I haven't done extensive testing yet, but something feels a bit.. leaky.. with their general defensiveness now(beyond simple traits). At first I was wondering if perhaps the weapon procs got reversed once again, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Also, it may just be my imagination, but the Borg beams do look a bit visually different than I remember them(a bit more 'electrical' and colorful than regular plasma) and I thought the weapon names looked slightly different in the logs.. I'm wondering if perhaps they got stealth-upgraded. Furthermore, I've noticed debuffs like plasma fire seem to be behaving slightly different now(besides just the new icon for it - the stacking is different).
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Enemy npc's are not challenging, they are simply given OP capability in hull and damage output.

    I don't mind if the enemy would whittle me down with consistent weapons fire, but instead I get one hit torpedo shots either eradicating a shield facing, and almost my entire hull with it, or delivering instant destruction thru shields altogether.

    I hate being killed by most of the horrid game designed enemies, do to the simple factor of most of them simply do it thru shields, or by wonder spamming uber torpedoes that eradicate your shields and hull in a split second.

    If they fought more like we do minus the actual IQ, than I would die with honor if it came to it.
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    szerontzur wrote: »
    Something does feel a bit.. off, but I'm not really sure what it is yet.

    I run a wide variety of characters with different ships and playstyles; they can generally hold their own just fine and I haven't done extensive testing yet, but something feels a bit.. leaky.. with their general defensiveness now(beyond simple traits). At first I was wondering if perhaps the weapon procs got reversed once again, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Also, it may just be my imagination, but the Borg beams do look a bit visually different than I remember them(a bit more 'electrical' and colorful than regular plasma) and I thought the weapon names looked slightly different in the logs.. I'm wondering if perhaps they got stealth-upgraded. Furthermore, I've noticed debuffs like plasma fire seem to be behaving slightly different now(besides just the new icon for it - the stacking is different).

    The borg are ridiculous, their crappy plasma arrays and cannons on the cubes, and gates do TRIBBLE damage, but they spam torpedoes like they are cannons doing huge shield and hull damage.

    I am guessing they are specced out in torpedo skills, with nothing but plasma torpedo consoles boosting the damage output, if I had to guess they must have some 200%+ for CRTD.
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,692 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I think the game mechanic on NPC torpedoes has changed. I got back to being survivable by adding kinetic resist. the thing i have not checked on are the big blob things from the undine. they are doing hull damage through shields maybe a plasma DOT?
    We Want Vic Fontaine
  • norobladnoroblad Member Posts: 2,624 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Breach may be bugged, not sure. Everything else seems to be about the same as before. But then again, before I had all dps based rep passives, so I lost no survival there, and I did not have the set bonus that was nerfed.

    So if you are feeling squishy, what did you actually lose that is behind it? The enemy is not doing more damage that I can tell (old content, not counting undine). It has to be some effect of your rep passives or a change to your gear... ?
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Shows too much reliance on rep abilities and rep gear. Hell just did an undine battle ground, didn't die once with my avenger with the 3 part solane set from "A step between stars". Got knocked down a few times with my main tac, but never actually died. Just had a hot button if I got in too thick RUN AWAY!!!

    Seriously always have an escape plan and even if you're in a sci officer in a vesta, always have some engineering/sci hull and shield heals. Might just save your life.
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
  • jer5488jer5488 Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I don't think it's quite a case of 'players can't handle it' - it's a case of "we want to know what changed". On launch day - I found the Undine content almost TOO easy, even on elite. After the Wednesday patch, which said nothing about difficulty changes, I was taking a lot more damage. Nothing I couldn't handle, but something was definitely changed, and we certainly weren't informed of it.

    I completely understand not releasing patch notes on exploit fixes, such as 'dual saucers/aquarius/ho'sus', which they also stealth fixed - but something like, "We felt the current elite content was too easy, and per players requests, did a fifteen percent damage increase to them across the board" needed to be posted just so we had some idea of what we were facing.

    No matter how you want to explain the changes, a Galaxy Dread with resiliant shield, max shield power, hull plating, and 67,000 health running elite fleet neutroniums shouldn't be one shot. By anything. Ever.
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    annemarie30 wrote: »
    I think the game mechanic on NPC torpedoes has changed. I got back to being survivable by adding kinetic resist. the thing i have not checked on are the big blob things from the undine. they are doing hull damage through shields maybe a plasma DOT?
    noroblad wrote: »
    Breach may be bugged, not sure. Everything else seems to be about the same as before. But then again, before I had all dps based rep passives, so I lost no survival there, and I did not have the set bonus that was nerfed.

    So if you are feeling squishy, what did you actually lose that is behind it? The enemy is not doing more damage that I can tell (old content, not counting undine). It has to be some effect of your rep passives or a change to your gear... ?

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway's Plasma Torpedo gives 4666 (24593) to your Shields.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 1294 (31845) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 851 (1046) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.


    [Combat (Self)] Gateway's Plasma Torpedo gives 1458 (7683) to your Shields.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 830 (1021) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 20190 (34289) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 851 (1046) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.


    [Combat (Self)] Gateway's Plasma Torpedo gives 4039 (15620) to your Shields.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 822 (32277) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 513 (1006) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.


    [Combat (Self)] Gateway's Plasma Torpedo gives 4101 (19642) to your Shields.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 636 (1009) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 1034 (32778) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.


    [Combat (Self)] Gateway's Plasma Torpedo gives 4234 (11862) to your Shields.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 654 (1037) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 624 (33834) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.


    [Combat (Self)] Gateway's Plasma Torpedo gives 5361 (26176) to your Shields.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 814 (1002) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 1378 (33895) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.


    [Combat (Self)] Gateway's Plasma Torpedo gives 5024 (24529) to your Shields.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 1291 (31763) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 819 (1008) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.


    [Combat (Self)] Gateway's Plasma Torpedo gives 5804 (18487) to your Shields.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 607 (1001) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 973 (32105) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.


    [Combat (Self)] Gateway's Plasma Torpedo gives 5257 (21988) to your Shields.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 693 (955) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 1157 (31927) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.


    [Combat (Self)] Gateway's Plasma Torpedo gives 3754 (20131) to your Shields.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 664 (1003) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 1060 (31997) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.


    [Combat (Self)] Gateway's Plasma Torpedo gives 3997 (19144) to your Shields.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 1008 (31947) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 638 (1011) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.


    [Combat (Self)] Gateway's Plasma Torpedo gives 5650 (26018) to your Shields.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 794 (976) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.

    [Combat (Self)] Gateway deals 1369 (33662) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Torpedo.


    I count 12 torpedoes from one gateway, and not a single one looked to not try and inflict a critical, even though they don't list a critical.

    This is beyond ridiculous for plasma torpedoes not coming from a spread, or even a high yield, heck not even listed as criticals, and if they are criticals than it has a 100% chance for a critical.

    Oh and the first 2 were back to back with no, or only 1sec between launching.

    I have been monitoring the combat logs in ESTF's, this is the most recent results.
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    annemarie30 wrote: »
    I think the game mechanic on NPC torpedoes has changed. I got back to being survivable by adding kinetic resist. the thing i have not checked on are the big blob things from the undine. they are doing hull damage through shields maybe a plasma DOT?
    All Undine weapons have a DoT.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • hunteralpha84hunteralpha84 Member Posts: 524 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    annemarie30 wrote: »
    I think the game mechanic on NPC torpedoes has changed. I got back to being survivable by adding kinetic resist. the thing i have not checked on are the big blob things from the undine. they are doing hull damage through shields maybe a plasma DOT?

    That is interesting because I've started using transphasic torpedo's again and I've been doing nice damage with them. And that's with no projectile skills nor transphasic console. I do have adapted maco though.

    It does make me wonder if torpedo's have been stealth improved.
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