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OMG!! PvP players caused another NERF!!

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  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Um, that's nerfarious. :P

    Huehuehuehuehuehue. :D
  • azyurionazyurion Member Posts: 168 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    This time it was the Borg set bonus hull heal!!

    Every nerf in this game was due to a PvP player complaints!!

    Rep nerf = PvP players

    Black goo console = PvP players

    Valdore console = PvP players

    You name it - X was nerfed because of PvP players!!

    Even the last Dilithium nerf was due to PvP players!!

    Damn them I liked my extra dilithium - why PvP players did you have it nerfed:mad:

    /sarcasm

    On a more serious note - if PvP players have sooo much influence in the game - how come they can't get a decent balance pass done??

    -maybe like diminishing returns on stacking : doffs/captain traits/Boff traits

    -Bfaw

    -power overcapping

    Come on get nerfing!!

    Yes. The P2W nature of STO PvP is to blame for many nerfs in the game. That's because those players represent an income source for pwe. There is very little content in the PvE game that requires a financial investment...unless a player is particularly bad. So, when new sets and skills are shown to have "imbalanced" PvP and they start getting whining feedback from the "whales", they will break out the nerf bat. It's been that way for years. You can attempt to be sarcastic to non-PvP players, but the fact remains that PvP players are their own worst enemies. Particularly the ones that specialize in "(baby) seal clubbing" PvP noobs with their mega-zen builds. Hard to convince non-PvP players to volunteer for an a-jamming against builds they cannot possibly compete against. Thus, it's hard to expand PvP; which, as I've said, is a source of potential positive income and has always been the post-50 game.
  • azyurionazyurion Member Posts: 168 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    starkaos wrote: »
    The Rep nerf was needed to stop future power creep caused by reputation passives not current power creep. Right now, it is almost non-existent, but when we have 15 Reputations and 60 Reputation passives, then there will be massive power creep caused by reputation passives. After all, if you think the reaction is bad when we had only 4 Reputations, imagine how bad it would be if we had 15 reputations and Cryptic needed to make this change instead of being proactive.

    That's a very plausible hypothesis. I'm not sure it's the actual rationale behind their moves, but it sounds reasonable. I think you may have given this more "big picture" thought than they did, but I'll go along with you on this. Particularly as players have been progressing through pve content too "fast" and they have seem to have always been focused on slowing down progression since F2P patch. I think the Dilithium economy, as it relates to pve, is also a factor.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    starkaos wrote: »
    The Rep nerf was needed to stop future power creep caused by reputation passives not current power creep. Right now, it is almost non-existent, but when we have 15 Reputations and 60 Reputation passives, then there will be massive power creep caused by reputation passives. After all, if you think the reaction is bad when we had only 4 Reputations, imagine how bad it would be if we had 15 reputations and Cryptic needed to make this change instead of being proactive.

    All of what you say could have been accomplished by just capping the reputation passives at their current state. The 50% nerf was totally uncalled for.
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  • sonnikkusonnikku Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Oh god this again. The old stuff has to be nerfed to make the new stuff look compelling enough to grind for.

    This is Cryptic 101 people.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2014
    This time it was the Borg set bonus hull heal!!

    Every nerf in this game was due to a PvP player complaints!!

    Rep nerf = PvP players

    Black goo console = PvP players

    Valdore console = PvP players

    You name it - X was nerfed because of PvP players!!

    Even the last Dilithium nerf was due to PvP players!!

    Damn them I liked my extra dilithium - why PvP players did you have it nerfed:mad:

    /sarcasm

    On a more serious note - if PvP players have sooo much influence in the game - how come they can't get a decent balance pass done??

    -maybe like diminishing returns on stacking : doffs/captain traits/Boff traits

    -Bfaw

    -power overcapping

    Come on get nerfing!!

    I have a hard time taking complaints seriously from someone called spacebaronline, but I'll bite.

    The Borg set wasn't nerfed, it was bugged to begin with. A graph was put up showing how it healed more than every other heal in the game and the devs took a second look and found the bug. It wasn't a nerf.

    The reputation change is actually good, and for spacebar heroes like you, you probably show more crits than in S8. As for nerfed reputations, the invisible critting escorts because the Romulan T4 passive had gotten out of hand and needed to be changed. Most others got a boost.

    You forgot to mention PvPers got Tachyon Beam fixed (10th pulse added->http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=15990231), Gravity Well/Tyken's Rift fixed, and the Deflector Officer doff fixed (Now works with Tachyon Beam and Energy Siphon->http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=862411).
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    lucho80 wrote: »
    I have a hard time taking complaints seriously from someone called spacebaronline, but I'll bite.

    The Borg set wasn't nerfed, it was bugged to begin with. A graph was put up showing how it healed more than every other heal in the game and the devs took a second look and found the bug. It wasn't a nerf.

    The reputation change is actually good, and for spacebar heroes like you, you probably show more crits than in S8. As for nerfed reputations, the invisible critting escorts because the Romulan T4 passive had gotten out of hand and needed to be changed. Most others got a boost.

    You forgot to mention PvPers got Tachyon Beam fixed (10th pulse added->http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=15990231), Gravity Well/Tyken's Rift fixed, and the Deflector Officer doff fixed (Now works with Tachyon Beam and Energy Siphon->http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=862411).

    You missed the part where the OP specifically notes he's being sarcastic. He's mocking the people who blame every nerf on PVPers.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    sonnikku wrote: »
    Oh god this again. The old stuff has to be nerfed to make the new stuff look compelling enough to grind for.

    This is Cryptic 101 people.
    Nah... I don't blame Cryptic. All P2W games do it.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • zachverantzachverant Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    If it wasn't for PvPers STO would have folded in S2...PvPers provide a "balanced" voice when it comes to ship and/or ground builds. Every new item in the game needs to be "player vs player" tested to see if it is working properly PvE cannot do that. NPCs are factory made and controlled by codeing laws, PC's are...inventive and ruthless...if there is an exploit a Player will find it...if something is OP a player will use it. THEN the Devs will nerf or beef up as needed, that is how it works.

    This game was a train wreck with OP builds both space and ground on the early days...PvPers made STO playable and will continue to do so with or with out a decent PvP map. I hope the PvPers keep up the pressure on the Devs because the Devs are known for just throwing "stuff" into the game willy nilly and letting the Doom Sayers wreck havoc on the forums when "stuff" doesn't work right.

    Just my 2 EC's worth

    Betty

    P.s. I have NOT played the new PvP zone not even sure if it was activated.
    "Sips her PWE Koolaide and looks at alllll the goodies in the Z store"
    Badname Betty (PvP...PvE...STF...Trophy Hunter...Latnium Collector...Federation)
    Commander Morgana (PvP...PvE...STF...KDF)
    1000 day vet and LTS
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] STO Join date: 7 Feb 2010
  • ashkrik23ashkrik23 Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    PVP players have nerfed things which did not need nerfing, providing additional advantage to one-shot pulsewaves and escorts.
    King of Lions rawr! Protect the wildlife of the world. Check out my foundry series Perfection and Scars of the Pride. arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1138650/ashkrik23s-foundry-missions
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  • jumpingjsjumpingjs Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    So what now?

    We offer, in retribution, a PvP against the PvPers?
    Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.

    I hope STO get's better ...
  • midntwolfmidntwolf Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The truth is a game absolutely cannot be balanced for both PvE and PvP. One or the other has to suffer and unfortunately it is usually both that suffer causing lackluster gameplay for both styles.

    Of course developers keep up with being greedy and keep trying to make game that are everything to everyone rather than just trying to make a great game that appeals to a dedicated fan base.

    This then of course explains why we have so many crappy games out right now.

    Anyway, I am in the PvE crowd that feels that my game shouldn't suffer due to PvP so I agree with the OP.
  • wildweasalwildweasal Member Posts: 1,053 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    seriously??? all you Pve carebears that blame us Pvpers it it wasnt for us telling the devs to nerf bat somthing this game would be a hot mess....well more than it is already ....you know what TRIBBLE that we pvper have tried to play nice with you robot Pve Derps you all can suck a fat one



    My name is Admiral Quinn and i approve this message
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  • coupaholiccoupaholic Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Looking at some of these replies, I fear reading comprehension has been nerfed into the ground too.

    So do I blame you PvP'ers for that too?
  • spacebaronlinespacebaronline Member Posts: 1,103 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    coupaholic wrote: »
    Looking at some of these replies, I fear reading comprehension has been nerfed into the ground too.

    So do I blame you PvP'ers for that too?

    I guess I was not detailed enough in my attempt to make it sound sarcastic/silly

    That's why are started to make crazy assertions like:

    "Even the last Dilithium nerf was due to PvP players!!"

    I also should perhaps put the:

    /Sarcasm - in color as well:eek::P
  • schnirselschnirsel Member Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Sarcasm is op pls nerf
    PVP is op pls nerf
    Cryptic is op pls nerf
    Reading comprehension is fail pls buff
    6pvmjHk.gif
  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    wildweasal wrote: »
    seriously??? all you Pve carebears that blame us Pvpers it it wasnt for us telling the devs to nerf bat somthing this game would be a hot mess....well more than it is already ....you know what TRIBBLE that we pvper have tried to play nice with you robot Pve Derps you all can suck a fat one



    My name is Admiral Quinn and i approve this message

    Just out of curiosity, have you ever wondered why so many people feel that PVP players are not welcoming to new players?
  • bendalekbendalek Member Posts: 1,781 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I hate to break this to you, but the OP is, at least partially, correct ...

    PvP players are the REASON for all the annoying 'nerfs'

    But Cryptic's lazy way of dealing with it is where the actual BLAME lies.

    ...

    A simple example ... In D&D, you have a character that is spec'd into say, Frost Damage ... All is well, you run around freezing and slowing enemies and all is fun, until you come up against a Frost Giant!!! <insert dun, dun DAAAHHHNNN sound here>

    It's immune to your damage, so you get 'pwned' ... You have to go and change your gear and maybe even repsec, to be able to beat it.

    Now in PvP, you have a similar situation, you are spec'd for Cold Damage and Cold Resist, but your opponent is spec'd for Cold Resist and Fire Damage - result: you're doomed!

    So what's the solution? In a 'proper' game, you'd do the same as the PvE scenario, you'd go out and regear/respec ... but WTF? That's just to annoying right? Who could be bothered with THAT!

    So we have the PvP players coming along with their "Waaahhh, he beat me, Waaahhh no fair, Waaahhh ... ... Waaahhh"

    So the 'lazy' fix that Cryptic (and most other companies I might add) implement, is to simply make everything basically the same ... It might say Sword of Cold Damage on the tooltip, but really it's just damage, and it might say Armor of Frost Resist on the tootip, but really, it's just resist.

    PvP and PvE WILL NEVER WORK in the same game, with the same settings, period!

    If the devs went the proper route, they would have either different gear for PvP and PvE or have "dual spec" gear ... But that's just to difficult ... So we have instead the easy, peasy fix all called ... "The Nerf Bat"!
    Oh, hoho hohhhhh, Oh,, hoho, hohhhhh
    My%20STO%20Sig%20Clear_zps5etu86s1.png
  • spacebaronlinespacebaronline Member Posts: 1,103 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    bendalek wrote: »
    I hate to break this to you, but the OP is, at least partially, correct ...

    PvP players are the REASON for all the annoying 'nerfs'

    But Cryptic's lazy way of dealing with it is where the actual BLAME lies.

    ...

    A simple example ... In D&D, you have a character that is spec'd into say, Frost Damage ... All is well, you run around freezing and slowing enemies and all is fun, until you come up against a Frost Giant!!! <insert dun, dun DAAAHHHNNN sound here>

    It's immune to your damage, so you get 'pwned' ... You have to go and change your gear and maybe even repsec, to be able to beat it.

    Now in PvP, you have a similar situation, you are spec'd for Cold Damage and Cold Resist, but your opponent is spec'd for Cold Resist and Fire Damage - result: you're doomed!

    So what's the solution? In a 'proper' game, you'd do the same as the PvE scenario, you'd go out and regear/respec ... but WTF? That's just to annoying right? Who could be bothered with THAT!

    So we have the PvP players coming along with their "Waaahhh, he beat me, Waaahhh no fair, Waaahhh ... ... Waaahhh"

    So the 'lazy' fix that Cryptic (and most other companies I might add) implement, is to simply make everything basically the same ... It might say Sword of Cold Damage on the tooltip, but really it's just damage, and it might say Armor of Frost Resist on the tootip, but really, it's just resist.

    PvP and PvE WILL NEVER WORK in the same game, with the same settings, period!

    If the devs went the proper route, they would have either different gear for PvP and PvE or have "dual spec" gear ... But that's just to difficult ... So we have instead the easy, peasy fix all called ... "The Nerf Bat"!

    Technically speaking most things that PvP players got "nerfed" were either:

    a)Broken from the first min on Holodeck

    b)not working as intended

    c)became broken on a patch

    d)were being exploited

    The list of real "nerfs" that most serious PvP players would like to see to bring some sanity to the power creep - is LONG!!! It's Cryptic that ignores PvP players cries about a lot of stupid OP stuff because they don't want to rock the PvE boat too much.
  • drtassadardrtassadar Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Of course it was the ****ing PvP players that caused all the damn nerfs in the game. Nobody in their right mind that plays PvE would complain about being able to kill enemies too easily.

    Cryptic is adding all this balance **** to shut up both the PvP players that spend obscene amounts of money, and the noobs that don't know how to play PvP.
    "That was not Mozart laughing, Father... that was God. That was God laughing at me, through that... through that obscene giggle."
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    eisenw0lf wrote: »
    PvPers also nerfed the diplomatic relations between Russia and Ukraine. You've heard it here first.

    Yes, we are terrible human beings.

    Thank you sir. I'm proud to accept the blame in that.

    IT WAS ME WITH DA BEARD.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • knightdmosaic170knightdmosaic170 Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Technically speaking most things that PvP players got "nerfed" were either:

    a)Broken from the first min on Holodeck

    b)not working as intended

    c)became broken on a patch

    d)were being exploited

    The list of real "nerfs" that most serious PvP players would like to see to bring some sanity to the power creep - is LONG!!! It's Cryptic that ignores PvP players cries about a lot of stupid OP stuff because they don't want to rock the PvE boat too much.



    This is the only community I have ever known were there is complaint about finding a way to make the game easier. Honestly, this kind of logic reminds me of when Netflix use to offer the Streaming and DVD service together. People didn't have the internet or they don't use DVD's anymore so why have both as an option? So, people complained and now look what you got. I use this as an example for a simple reason. It was a good deal for both at ten whole dollars. Pay ten and if you didn't want to use DVD's or Internet streaming no harm done. Now you have to pay $16 in order to get what you had for $10.

    I say this about STO for a simple reason. Yes, thing's were exploited and I'll even agree that Beam Boat's and Cruiser game play is over powered. However, before anyone was ever complaining about BFAW Cruiser's they were complaining about Escorts and so on and so forth. Let's not forget the classic complaint of many about how Science Officer's were losing there use in game. "Why take my Science Officer into PvE when my Tactical can kill it faster?" Then there is the long going one about Galaxy Class that spawned the Intrepid thread and so on and so forth. Point being, all these so called Power Creep fixes fixed nothing.

    Now, someone else has the advantage and come a year are two from now there will be a cry out very much like the one before for a different reason. " X is Overpowered! NERF!" So I am going to say this very clearly.

    YOU CAN NOT FIX POWER CREEP!
    YOU CAN NOT BRING SANITY TO POWER CREEP!

    A build get's the Axe and another one takes it's place. So, a group of player's suffer while another group thrives. All Season 9 has done is change the balance in another direction. So, in the long run another exploit will be found in the game to counter it. Then, a year or two from now there will be a cry out for more things to have Nerfs. So instead of people crying about things and continuing the cycle of how broken things are with, "X is overpowered, NERF!" try this instead.



    1. Don't use Zen/C Store ships.
    - You don't need an Avenger,Scimitar, Galaxy X, JHAS, Vesta's, and numerous other ships to play the game. There are these thing's called Free ships and Mirror ships that don't stink of special console's and BOFF layouts that have Universal's.


    2. Do nothing but Private Matches.
    - I also use this for people that don't like random Groups in Fleet Queue's. You don't like Overpowered build's? You don't want to change and adapt? Then do a private ones were you and all your special rules can take place with all people involved.


    3. Join a group with Rules about Gameplay.
    - I forget the name of the group exactly, but they play with limited weapon's for a more realistic Star Trek Battles. You think certain build's or overpowered? You want to play on even ground? Then join or make a group were overpowered build's are not allowed. Considering the cry for NERF this and NERF that you can find like minded people to join.


    4. Then FINALLY there is this single thing. Just because everyone else is using an Overpowered build doesn't mean you have to.
    - I used Tetryon Beam Array's for a very long time before going to Antiproton. I could have went to Antiproton much sooner but I didn't. I didn't go to the better choice because I choose to do so. I liked Tetryon so I used Tetryon. STO is a game and last I recall in a game you can play how you like. You don't have to use Exploit's in the game. You don't have to use the Borg Set. You don't have to use Antiproton or Lock Box ship console's. People choose to do so.



    So, in short, I find a cry for any NERF a waste in an endless cycle that will give rise to a cry for more. Honestly, I hope Cryptic ignores this long list of "real" nerfs. They need to be fixing bugs and overall in general fixing things that NEED to be fixed.


    Note- Hell, you know what. Since crying NERF seems to work for everything.

    The Scimitar is overpowered, please NERF!
    Romulan's are overpowered, please NERF!
    Klingon BoP's are overpowered, please NERF HULL to 1 POINT!
    Scimitar Vaper's are overpowered, please NERF!
    Federation cloaks are overpowered, please NERF FURTHER!
    Zen/C Store ships are overpowered, get rid of them!
    STO is overpowered, delete the game before it has you crying NERF!

    Oh, I forgot one!
    STO player's are overpowered, please NERF!
  • skurfskurf Member Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    ashkrik23 wrote: »
    PVP players have nerfed things which did not need nerfing, providing additional advantage to one-shot pulsewaves and escorts.

    Actually it's the opposite. PvP'ers got the double-tap beam overload nerfed,which has made it harder to 1-shot somebody. I'm not sure how you can blame all the other 1-shot stuff that Cryptic has added to the game on PvP'ers...that's all Cryptic.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Oh stop blaming PvP players... most of us have already left. Grow some and look in the mirror.

    Blame the PvE kids posting 2:00 solo infected run videos on youtube. lmao

    Nothing to do with PvP.... when Cryptic watches PvE players tanking tactical cubes with ZERO heals loaded on there ship... you think they can't put 2 and 2 together. lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • thegrimcorsairthegrimcorsair Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    spacebar, you didn't make the "/sarcasm" big enough. It needs to be bolded, colored yellow, and printed onto the screen in 256 pt. font.
    If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
  • spacebaronlinespacebaronline Member Posts: 1,103 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Oh stop blaming PvP players... most of us have already left. Grow some and look in the mirror.

    Blame the PvE kids posting 2:00 solo infected run videos on youtube. lmao

    Nothing to do with PvP.... when Cryptic watches PvE players tanking tactical cubes with ZERO heals loaded on there ship... you think they can't put 2 and 2 together. lol

    I hope you realise my thread is a satire:P
  • spacebaronlinespacebaronline Member Posts: 1,103 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    spacebar, you didn't make the "/sarcasm" big enough. It needs to be bolded, colored yellow, and printed onto the screen in 256 pt. font.

    TRUE - but I did not want to edit the OP - so people later could say - "oh you just added that in after"
  • knuhteb5knuhteb5 Member Posts: 1,831 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    If you think rep passives were the problem, think again and I mean really think harder. What is allowing these ships to triple or quadruple their dps? Not rep passives!!!!!!!!!!
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  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    jockey1979 wrote: »
    So, you've not seen the rep trait that adds 40% damage bonus to torps and mines over 6 seconds? or the ones that give you direct hull damage? or the added CrtH or CrtD traits?

    What about the escorts now tanking in ESTFs due to traits giving "emergency shields"? or extra shield and hull resists?

    Nope, non of that adds to power creep at all does it ! :rolleyes:

    And you know what? Because he decided to put Defense, he's not putting in one of those other very strong, Offensive oriented traits.

    Remember, you only have so many traits slots to put on what traits you wanted. You go all in on defense, good for you. You go all in on offense, good for you. But you are never, compared to before, going to be ridiculously strong in BOTH.

    Pick & Choose.

    The example you yourself provided showed Escorts forsaking MOAR FIREPOWAH for more survivability.

    Yes, the System Works.

    Now continue weaning yourself from the Old Power Creep :rolleyes:
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