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should people pay for fleet access or no?
helios117
Member Posts: 9 Arc User
Ok before you start yelling and ranting about this just hear me out.
I have been going back and forth with a friend via email. And this has sparked a nice debate. However WE as a group who have been debating this.. we are at a standstill and look for EVERYONE'S opinion. This is a friendly debate please no cussing, swearing, insulting, ETC. (posts like that will be flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct) remember this is a CIVIL debate.
There are fleets on the entire spectrum that constantly bicker on who is right and who is wrong. We have fleets that charge for access/provisions, we have fleets that do not charge at all. Then we have fleets that don't charge for access but charge for provision use. And constantly the fleets that give free full access reports other fleets that charge for access per the TOS that its scamming players (see TOS 15.2 Sub. J ) BUT how is it a scam because these its giving a price tag to a provision that COSTS. not by EC but in fleet marks, dilithium, doffs, and commodities.
Think about it like a math equation. A fleet wants to provision. Project X requires Y resources and gives 15 provisions. Right? So the price of that provision costs 1/15th Y
And what about fleet map access. I mean people want it for free but in another forum thread (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=620201) It lists ALL the required resources to get the fleet up.
People want the tier 5 FED and KDF gear. Which we all understand. I mean who doesnt want a tier 4 fleet avenger or tier 5 fleet assault.? But to gt the higher gear it requires all these resources. And some fleets that are small need to BUY their dilly so that they can knock out these tier projects. So in fact its NOT free to the fleet to tier up so why should the fleet give access for FREE.
I would understand if everyone got a tier 5 fleet off the bat and provisions were free that then it would be a scam because its charging for something that IS free but the current system shows you that a tier 5 fleet IS NOT free and people call foul or scam for when fleets charge.
Remember this is a CIVIL debate, I invite the entire Player base (AND GMS/MODS) to join in and voice their opinion. Remember be civil
I have been going back and forth with a friend via email. And this has sparked a nice debate. However WE as a group who have been debating this.. we are at a standstill and look for EVERYONE'S opinion. This is a friendly debate please no cussing, swearing, insulting, ETC. (posts like that will be flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct) remember this is a CIVIL debate.
There are fleets on the entire spectrum that constantly bicker on who is right and who is wrong. We have fleets that charge for access/provisions, we have fleets that do not charge at all. Then we have fleets that don't charge for access but charge for provision use. And constantly the fleets that give free full access reports other fleets that charge for access per the TOS that its scamming players (see TOS 15.2 Sub. J ) BUT how is it a scam because these its giving a price tag to a provision that COSTS. not by EC but in fleet marks, dilithium, doffs, and commodities.
Think about it like a math equation. A fleet wants to provision. Project X requires Y resources and gives 15 provisions. Right? So the price of that provision costs 1/15th Y
And what about fleet map access. I mean people want it for free but in another forum thread (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=620201) It lists ALL the required resources to get the fleet up.
People want the tier 5 FED and KDF gear. Which we all understand. I mean who doesnt want a tier 4 fleet avenger or tier 5 fleet assault.? But to gt the higher gear it requires all these resources. And some fleets that are small need to BUY their dilly so that they can knock out these tier projects. So in fact its NOT free to the fleet to tier up so why should the fleet give access for FREE.
I would understand if everyone got a tier 5 fleet off the bat and provisions were free that then it would be a scam because its charging for something that IS free but the current system shows you that a tier 5 fleet IS NOT free and people call foul or scam for when fleets charge.
Remember this is a CIVIL debate, I invite the entire Player base (AND GMS/MODS) to join in and voice their opinion. Remember be civil
Post edited by helios117 on
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If fleets choose to give out free stuff that they had to work for, thats up to them, and frankly I applaud them for their generosity
Its true they do. HOWEVER they ALSO flag people who charge as scammers because it doesn't conform to their way.
Just a few weeks ago one of their mods flagged a girl I know in-game as Freya as a scammer because she charged for a fleet ship. Point being as you said its up to the fleet weather or not to charge. BUT that does not give a right for fleets who dont charge to call foul for fleets that do charge.
Pretty much. At this point it doesn't matter what you and yours think, since there are plenty well-built fleets out there who are happy to offer services to the playerbase at large. You can debate all you want, but the outcome will be irrelevant. If you charge, you'll get no business. If you don't, you'll be another one of many T5 fleets offering free access. So this thread serves no purpose.
So let me get this straight? You are offering FULL access to your tier 5 fleet including your provisions and your fleet ships for NO cost? Awesome I'l like 1,000 fleet common doffs please and thank you
Because some people need to be told that water is wet, the sky is blue, and grass is green.
It is a scam, but you got your data wrong.
Giving access costs the fleet nothing, expect the energy it takes you to invite someone.
The provisions come from the invited person's fleet's provision stores, not yours.
So yes, it is a scam. The invited person isnt using your provisions.
No it isnt because the fleet invested in their tiers as posted in the other links. You as a tier 3 fleet are requesting the access of a tier 5 shipyard is a differnce of a whole lot of dilly, marks, experiance, etc. Besides you wouldnt be asking for access if you had put in the money yourself into your own fleet
I personally don't, since I'm in a good, big fleet.
Though the Public service channel (The original or the Nerd of Prey one) offers access for free.
Now if you join a fleet to get access to their fleet ships stuff, you should earn that, but that's not the same as inviting for other stuff.
To those that offer it for free, i'd assume they found a method for resources and wish to spread the wealth. More power to them.
It's a service that took many hours to attain. A charge doesn't seem like a scam at all
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
NoP Public Service rules dictate no charging. She broke the rules, she got dealt with. What is so hard to understand?
Request denied.
So we should absolutely not mention that channel "NoP Public Service" is the place for unlimited fleet holding invites across both factions where everything is free for everyone?
Got it!
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=876281
NoP Public Service.
NoP Public Service.
NoP Public Service.
NoP Public Service.
NoP Public Service.
NoP Public Service.
NoP Public Service.
NoP Public Service.
NoP Public Service.
NoP Public Service.
NoP Public Service.
NoP Public Service.
NoP Public Service.
And the rules of those channels are clear.
EDIT - Whether she did it on the channel, or PMed via the channel is no different in my view.
And I'm free to give out holding invites to people who have their own provision access. See how that works? You can't stop me from doing so, either. And I've always been up-front that I don't give away ship provisions via fleet invites.
I don't sell them, either, though I've been accused of doing so after explaining my fleet's promotion requirements. But I know someone who does give away T5 shipyard access Fed-side, totally free and with no catch. I direct people who ask to him, when he's online.
I'm really not sure what the point of this thread is. You're upset that someone didn't like you for charging for access? I'm sorry your feelings were hurt by a stranger in a MMO.
I don't see anything to discuss.
We're happy to give out invites because while we've grinded up the provisions ourselves, it still means those provisions are ours alone. After all, inviting someone from another fleet to our fleet map doesn't cost us provisions.
With invites for gaining access to fleet ships, it's a little different, since it does actually cost us a provision. This is how I deal with the cost:
* As already mentioned, I'm a fleet leader.
* I'm fairly well off in STO.
* I can cover the cost myself, by queuing and filling another fleet project for more provisions.
* I get more fleet credits for doing so.
* I like the warm fuzzy feeling I get for being generous with my space wealth.
Simple, isn't it?
I'm sorry NoP ruined your money making scheme and people don't have to lick your boots anymore just to get an invite. Truly, I am.
However I would like, if it is not already possible, to be able to donate to provision projects of fleets that allow me the access.
THEN you make this thread. You watch it hopelessly backfire, you try to censor the reason WHY it's backfiring, then you just flail about like a fish out of water while your desperate attempts to justify yourself and your competing channel burn to the ground around you.
Hopefully I didn't miss a step here.
I don't see it as much now, but several months back this kind of thing happened all the time. Even in ESD people pretty much stop the ship access hustle. I really thought this didn't happen anymore. Oh well, if you can find a sucker, take their money.
Hah. Kinsha, really?
We give away invites to our holdings on a daily basis.
As for, fleet ships i ask for a donating. 10k. Dilitium. Or 2.5 Mill ec. THE ec i spread around our fleet members.
P.S I Also give away free fleet ship invites
nop channel. Is a great way to get. high end gear acces for none tier 5 fleets
TELL THAT TO CRYPTIC