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Forums > Home› Feedback› Fleet System and Holdings

should people pay for fleet access or no?

helios117helios117 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
edited May 2014 in Fleet System and Holdings
Ok before you start yelling and ranting about this just hear me out.

I have been going back and forth with a friend via email. And this has sparked a nice debate. However WE as a group who have been debating this.. we are at a standstill and look for EVERYONE'S opinion. This is a friendly debate please no cussing, swearing, insulting, ETC. (posts like that will be flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct) remember this is a CIVIL debate.

There are fleets on the entire spectrum that constantly bicker on who is right and who is wrong. We have fleets that charge for access/provisions, we have fleets that do not charge at all. Then we have fleets that don't charge for access but charge for provision use. And constantly the fleets that give free full access reports other fleets that charge for access per the TOS that its scamming players (see TOS 15.2 Sub. J ) BUT how is it a scam because these its giving a price tag to a provision that COSTS. not by EC but in fleet marks, dilithium, doffs, and commodities.

Think about it like a math equation. A fleet wants to provision. Project X requires Y resources and gives 15 provisions. Right? So the price of that provision costs 1/15th Y

And what about fleet map access. I mean people want it for free but in another forum thread (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=620201) It lists ALL the required resources to get the fleet up.

People want the tier 5 FED and KDF gear. Which we all understand. I mean who doesnt want a tier 4 fleet avenger or tier 5 fleet assault.? But to gt the higher gear it requires all these resources. And some fleets that are small need to BUY their dilly so that they can knock out these tier projects. So in fact its NOT free to the fleet to tier up so why should the fleet give access for FREE.

I would understand if everyone got a tier 5 fleet off the bat and provisions were free that then it would be a scam because its charging for something that IS free but the current system shows you that a tier 5 fleet IS NOT free and people call foul or scam for when fleets charge.

Remember this is a CIVIL debate, I invite the entire Player base (AND GMS/MODS) to join in and voice their opinion. Remember be civil :)
Post edited by helios117 on
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Comments

  • showmeyourhonorshowmeyourhonor Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Given how lots of generous people give out access for free in NoP Public Service, I don't see why anyone should have to pay for access anymore.

    If fleets choose to give out free stuff that they had to work for, thats up to them, and frankly I applaud them for their generosity :).
  • helios117helios117 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    showmeyourhonor wrote: »
    Given how lots of generous people give out access for free in NoP Public Service, I don't see why anyone should have to pay for access anymore.

    If fleets choose to give out free stuff that they had to work for, thats up to them, and frankly I applaud them for their generosity :).

    Its true they do. HOWEVER they ALSO flag people who charge as scammers because it doesn't conform to their way.
    Just a few weeks ago one of their mods flagged a girl I know in-game as Freya as a scammer because she charged for a fleet ship. Point being as you said its up to the fleet weather or not to charge. BUT that does not give a right for fleets who dont charge to call foul for fleets that do charge.
  • psycholandlordpsycholandlord Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    showmeyourhonor wrote: »
    Given how lots of generous people give out access for free in NoP Public Service, I don't see why anyone should have to pay for access anymore.


    Pretty much. At this point it doesn't matter what you and yours think, since there are plenty well-built fleets out there who are happy to offer services to the playerbase at large. You can debate all you want, but the outcome will be irrelevant. If you charge, you'll get no business. If you don't, you'll be another one of many T5 fleets offering free access. So this thread serves no purpose.
    4KCfG9C.gif
  • hkinsha01hkinsha01 Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    psycholandlord wrote: »
    Pretty much. At this point it doesn't matter what you and yours think, since there are plenty well-built fleets out there who are happy to offer services to the playerbase at large. You can debate all you want, but the outcome will be irrelevant. If you charge, you'll get no business. If you don't, you'll be another one of many T5 fleets offering free access. So this thread serves no purpose.

    So let me get this straight? You are offering FULL access to your tier 5 fleet including your provisions and your fleet ships for NO cost? Awesome I'l like 1,000 fleet common doffs please and thank you :) You have my handle so you can feel free to mail them to me. (BTW you can trade fleet doffs)
  • faxmachinefaxmachine Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    hkinsha01 wrote: »
    If it serves no purpose then why are you posting in it ?

    Because some people need to be told that water is wet, the sky is blue, and grass is green.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tpalelenatpalelena Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    helios117 wrote: »
    Ok before you start yelling and ranting about this just hear me out.

    I have been going back and forth with a friend via email. And this has sparked a nice debate. However WE as a group who have been debating this.. we are at a standstill and look for EVERYONE'S opinion. This is a friendly debate please no cussing, swearing, insulting, ETC. (posts like that will be flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct) remember this is a CIVIL debate.

    There are fleets on the entire spectrum that constantly bicker on who is right and who is wrong. We have fleets that charge for access/provisions, we have fleets that do not charge at all. Then we have fleets that don't charge for access but charge for provision use. And constantly the fleets that give free full access reports other fleets that charge for access per the TOS that its scamming players (see TOS 15.2 Sub. J ) BUT how is it a scam because these its giving a price tag to a provision that COSTS. not by EC but in fleet marks, dilithium, doffs, and commodities.

    Think about it like a math equation. A fleet wants to provision. Project X requires Y resources and gives 15 provisions. Right? So the price of that provision costs 1/15th Y

    And what about fleet map access. I mean people want it for free but in another forum thread (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=620201) It lists ALL the required resources to get the fleet up.

    People want the tier 5 FED and KDF gear. Which we all understand. I mean who doesnt want a tier 4 fleet avenger or tier 5 fleet assault.? But to gt the higher gear it requires all these resources. And some fleets that are small need to BUY their dilly so that they can knock out these tier projects. So in fact its NOT free to the fleet to tier up so why should the fleet give access for FREE.

    I would understand if everyone got a tier 5 fleet off the bat and provisions were free that then it would be a scam because its charging for something that IS free but the current system shows you that a tier 5 fleet IS NOT free and people call foul or scam for when fleets charge.

    Remember this is a CIVIL debate, I invite the entire Player base (AND GMS/MODS) to join in and voice their opinion. Remember be civil :)

    It is a scam, but you got your data wrong.

    Giving access costs the fleet nothing, expect the energy it takes you to invite someone.

    The provisions come from the invited person's fleet's provision stores, not yours.

    So yes, it is a scam. The invited person isnt using your provisions.
    Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
  • hkinsha01hkinsha01 Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    tpalelena wrote: »
    It is a scam, but you got your data wrong.

    Giving access costs the fleet nothing, expect the energy it takes you to invite someone.

    The provisions come from the invited person's fleet's provision stores, not yours.

    So yes, it is a scam. The invited person isnt using your provisions.

    No it isnt because the fleet invested in their tiers as posted in the other links. You as a tier 3 fleet are requesting the access of a tier 5 shipyard is a differnce of a whole lot of dilly, marks, experiance, etc. Besides you wouldnt be asking for access if you had put in the money yourself into your own fleet
  • tpalelenatpalelena Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    hkinsha01 wrote: »
    No it isnt because the fleet invested in their tiers as posted in the other links. You as a tier 3 fleet are requesting the access of a tier 5 shipyard is a differnce of a whole lot of dilly, marks, experiance, etc. Besides you wouldnt be asking for access if you had put in the money yourself into your own fleet

    I personally don't, since I'm in a good, big fleet.

    Though the Public service channel (The original or the Nerd of Prey one) offers access for free.

    Now if you join a fleet to get access to their fleet ships stuff, you should earn that, but that's not the same as inviting for other stuff.
    Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
  • helios117helios117 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    ok. I am going to have to ask that channel names NOT be dropped in the conversation ! all parties please remove channel names. This is NOT a forum for advertisement.
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Charge people. Took a lot of work to get to the higher tiers. And provisions aren't cheap

    To those that offer it for free, i'd assume they found a method for resources and wish to spread the wealth. More power to them.

    It's a service that took many hours to attain. A charge doesn't seem like a scam at all
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • showmeyourhonorshowmeyourhonor Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    helios117 wrote: »
    Its true they do. HOWEVER they ALSO flag people who charge as scammers because it doesn't conform to their way.
    Just a few weeks ago one of their mods flagged a girl I know in-game as Freya as a scammer because she charged for a fleet ship. Point being as you said its up to the fleet weather or not to charge. BUT that does not give a right for fleets who dont charge to call foul for fleets that do charge.

    NoP Public Service rules dictate no charging. She broke the rules, she got dealt with. What is so hard to understand?
    helios117 wrote: »
    ok. I am going to have to ask that channel names NOT be dropped in the conversation ! all parties please remove channel names. This is NOT a forum for advertisement.

    Request denied.
  • hkinsha01hkinsha01 Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    showmeyourhonor wrote: »
    NoP Public Service rules dictate no charging. She broke the rules, she got dealt with. What is so hard to understand?

    Actually.. no she didn't. She was in the channel yes BUT she didn't offer service IN the channel But then again as per the thread rules I shall not start a flame war. also the thread starter DID say no channel names be dropped so please follow his request :) Cheers
  • gardatgardat Member Posts: 280 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    helios117 wrote: »
    ok. I am going to have to ask that channel names NOT be dropped in the conversation ! all parties please remove channel names. This is NOT a forum for advertisement.

    So we should absolutely not mention that channel "NoP Public Service" is the place for unlimited fleet holding invites across both factions where everything is free for everyone?

    Got it! :D
    486 DX2/66Mhz, 4MB SD-RAM, 16KB L-1 cache, 120MB HDD, 3.5" FDD, 2x CD-ROM, 8-Bit Soundblaster Pro, IBM Model M PS/2 keyboard, Microsoft trackball mouse, 256KB S3 graphics chip, 14" VGA CRT monitor, MS-DOS 6.22
  • tpalelenatpalelena Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    hkinsha01 wrote: »
    showmeyourhonor wrote: »
    NoP Public Service rules dictate no charging. She broke the rules, she got dealt with. What is so hard to understand?

    Actually.. no she didn't. She was in the channel yes BUT she didn't offer service IN the channel But then again as per the thread rules I shall not start a flame war. also the thread starter DID say no channel names be dropped so please follow his request :) Cheers

    Actually, she need to have charged in their channel, or otherwise how did they knew she was charing for it?

    Plus, dont join a channel if you disagree with their rules.
    gardat wrote: »
    So we should absolutely not mention that channel "NoP Public Service" is the place for unlimited fleet holding invites across both factions where everything is free for everyone?

    Got it! :D

    Op may feel threatened by the totally free service. I dont know why, the Public service channels are very nice (both, old and Nerd of Prey one) so I can recommend them for people.
    Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
  • tontokowalski22tontokowalski22 Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    hkinsha01 wrote: »
    also the thread starter DID say no channel names be dropped so please follow his request :) Cheers

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=876281

    NoP Public Service.
    NoP Public Service.
    NoP Public Service.
    NoP Public Service.
    NoP Public Service.
    NoP Public Service.
    NoP Public Service.
    NoP Public Service.
    NoP Public Service.
    NoP Public Service.
    NoP Public Service.
    NoP Public Service.
    NoP Public Service.
    vSzSPTd.jpg
    I don't always feel like endlessly grinding for hours with little to gain from it. But when I do, I choose Star Trek Online
  • hkinsha01hkinsha01 Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    tpalelena wrote: »
    hkinsha01 wrote: »

    Actually, she need to have charged in their channel, or otherwise how did they knew she was charing for it?

    Plus, dont join a channel if you disagree with their rules.

    others knew about it because someone complained about her charging for a fleet ship.
  • gazurtoidgazurtoid Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    With channels such as NoP Public Service, Fleets that attempt to charge for access are swimming against the tide.

    And the rules of those channels are clear.

    EDIT - Whether she did it on the channel, or PMed via the channel is no different in my view.
    yjkZSeM.gif
  • helios117helios117 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    when did this become a fight between a person and a channel? CAN WE STICK ON TOPIC PLEASE?? actually better idea. This debate is closed and I request a GM/MOD to remove this :) since we cant have a friendly debate
  • mikejfmikejf Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I don't see how you expect us to have a fruitful debate on the topic without bringing up the main factors affecting the subject - like the existing giveaway service channels such as NoP Public Service.
  • futurepastnowfuturepastnow Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    You're free to charge for access if you wish. I've called such practices "scummy", but it's not a scam unless you're dishonest about it. I can't stop you. (Inviting someone from the NoP Public Service channel and then trying to charge them is extremely dishonest, btw)

    And I'm free to give out holding invites to people who have their own provision access. See how that works? You can't stop me from doing so, either. And I've always been up-front that I don't give away ship provisions via fleet invites.

    I don't sell them, either, though I've been accused of doing so after explaining my fleet's promotion requirements. But I know someone who does give away T5 shipyard access Fed-side, totally free and with no catch. I direct people who ask to him, when he's online.

    I'm really not sure what the point of this thread is. You're upset that someone didn't like you for charging for access? I'm sorry your feelings were hurt by a stranger in a MMO.

    I don't see anything to discuss.
  • zaichalzaichal Member Posts: 96 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I am a fleet leader in a t5 fleet, which has participated in NoP Public Service.

    We're happy to give out invites because while we've grinded up the provisions ourselves, it still means those provisions are ours alone. After all, inviting someone from another fleet to our fleet map doesn't cost us provisions.

    With invites for gaining access to fleet ships, it's a little different, since it does actually cost us a provision. This is how I deal with the cost:

    * As already mentioned, I'm a fleet leader.
    * I'm fairly well off in STO.
    * I can cover the cost myself, by queuing and filling another fleet project for more provisions.
    * I get more fleet credits for doing so.
    * I like the warm fuzzy feeling I get for being generous with my space wealth.

    Simple, isn't it?
  • heraanheraan Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    helios117 wrote: »
    oh no my thinly veiled and poorly conceived attempt to drum up support for my own fleet services channel has horribly backfired, better cut and run

    I'm sorry NoP ruined your money making scheme and people don't have to lick your boots anymore just to get an invite. Truly, I am.
  • decroniadecronia Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    It's upto the individual fleet and if the person is willing to pay. It is no more a scam or scummy than say going in to X supermarket and getting a block of cheese for £3 and them not telling you that Y supermarket has it on a BOGOF offer. If I see people asking for access in chat I tell them that the public service channel has people offering free access, after that it is upto them what they want to do.

    However I would like, if it is not already possible, to be able to donate to provision projects of fleets that allow me the access.
  • contrarydecisioncontrarydecision Member Posts: 274 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    This is pretty fun. First you made a mess in NoP Public Service, got caught trying to sell service AFTER sending invites NoP Public Service requesters in violation of the rules, went full passive-aggressive and publicly refused to give an invite whenever anyone asked for one after getting told to knock it off, then finally got kicked from the channel when you became so insufferable there was no hope of your recovery.

    THEN you make this thread. You watch it hopelessly backfire, you try to censor the reason WHY it's backfiring, then you just flail about like a fish out of water while your desperate attempts to justify yourself and your competing channel burn to the ground around you.

    Hopefully I didn't miss a step here.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited April 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • fatman592fatman592 Member Posts: 1,207 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Zero reason to charge these days. Provisioning is just another project for a maxed out fleet to fill in no time. If you want to charge for access and advertise in zone, you'll get tons of people chiming in with "do 'x' to get it for free".

    I don't see it as much now, but several months back this kind of thing happened all the time. Even in ESD people pretty much stop the ship access hustle. I really thought this didn't happen anymore. Oh well, if you can find a sucker, take their money.
    startrek.44thfleet.com/
  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Eh, if there is a fleet ship involved, some level of payment makes sense since you have to join the fleet and use their provisions. Plus they had to build the whole thing, and that last tier always costs more than everything prior combined. Someone wants to put on a reasonable fee to justify their own investments, seems fair enough.
  • mynameisnommynameisnom Member Posts: 639 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    hkinsha01 wrote: »
    So let me get this straight? You are offering FULL access to your tier 5 fleet including your provisions and your fleet ships for NO cost? Awesome I'l like 1,000 fleet common doffs please and thank you :) You have my handle so you can feel free to mail them to me. (BTW you can trade fleet doffs)

    Hah. Kinsha, really?
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    stoutes wrote: »
    Those fish are much like their masters, filthy backstabbers... All battlecloaked fish, waiting for the right moment...
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    The boss being a gigantic Winter Epohh Researcher. As you lay waste to the Epohh Horde, she can occasionally cry out things like, "Didn't you want an Epohh friend?"
  • ghyudtghyudt Member Posts: 1,112 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    When you buy fleet items, you use your own fleet credits and dilithium, but the provisions come out of the fleet your buying from. At least, that's how I see it making sense. But according to what I've read, if you're in a fleet, the. the provisions are a tuallh deducted from your current fleet, correct? The only time this changes is when buying fleet ships. Those provisions come out of the fleet you're purchasing from. So, if the above is true, then charging for fleet access for anything other than ships is in fact a scam. But why does it matter? Fleets are actually perfectly capable of regulating this. How? Simply don't reprovision your fleet stores unless of your members requests it via in game mail. Then make that person responsible for completing the required project. If you really think about it, there's no reason to be paying another fleet for items when youre fleet is perfectly capable of obtaining them. Patience is simply not one of humanity's strong points.
  • sebastiaanb007sebastiaanb007 Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Hi im THE fleet founder of THE Thunderbirds


    We give away invites to our holdings on a daily basis.


    As for, fleet ships i ask for a donating. 10k. Dilitium. Or 2.5 Mill ec. THE ec i spread around our fleet members.

    P.S I Also give away free fleet ship invites





    nop channel. Is a great way to get. high end gear acces for none tier 5 fleets
    Picard: "The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century... The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity.
    TELL THAT TO CRYPTIC
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