Honestly i dont think Bird of preys need more cloak buffs or flanking. They are already the kings of hit and run. I personally love my heavy bird of prey, and i dont even use cloak. I just move around the screen like a fly and i do a lot of hits and runs in a few seconds = target dead. Romulans can do that as well, but they have less damage resistance. So i think it is all balanced in that matter. It is just not the same play style with fast warbirds / bird of preys. As i said, i almost never use cloak on my rommies or my klingons lol.
If you dont play pvp (i think nowadays only a few peple plays pvp) you dont need cloak at all.
They need the buffs because of Romulan ship superiority.
Romulan ships should remain the superior cloakers, after all they are sided with either faction as an ally, if they were a separate faction than it would be an issue.
No objections to being able to use normal cloaks in combat/red alert either.
Just make sure the normal cloak has a longer cooldown before being able to recloak and give battlecloak a brief window of shielded coverage while a ship is still cloaking. Or, just give normal cloak a longer cloaking time than battlecloak.
They need the buffs because of Romulan ship superiority.
So, give em buffs and romulans will no longer be superior. That sounds a bit stupid, dont you think?
It is supossed that every faction has its own pros and cons. Romulans are superior. Period. Thats how it needs to be. If you want a game based on the star trek universe.
Let's forgo the semantics: It makes no sense whatever not to be able to engage a cloak while under fire. The artificial construct of not being able to cloak while under fire is bollocks.
I thought the 'artificial construct' was to not be able to fire while under cloak?!
Anyway, sure, battle cloaks for all cloakers, why not! Would bring an easy semblance of balance to the races again. Giving us Roms a battle cloak, on top of already having access to SRO's, was adding insult to injury as it is.
No objections to being able to use normal cloaks in combat/red alert either.
Just make sure the normal cloak has a longer cooldown before being able to recloak and give battlecloak a brief window of shielded coverage while a ship is still cloaking. Or, just give normal cloak a longer cloaking time than battlecloak.
Exactly as the KDF and Fed need have some penalty so as to not infringe on the RR.
Raiders can remain with the changes being implemented, but for standard KDF no more than the already 15% dmg bonus with normal lengthy cloaking, for the Feds give them a 25% dmg bonus but suffer the already existing limitation of cloaking ships via console, and a regular cloaking time.
While we're on the subject, I would also like to see cloaking in this game be turned into an ability that is 100% skill-based, Basically use MES as the cloak command, with the effectiveness being determined by MES ability level, player skill-tree points in stealth, BOFF species traits, ship hull inherent stealthiness, and cloak consoles. At the low end, unskilled captain and crew in a non-cloaking ship should not have anything more than basic MES1 can provide, but at the high-end a Romulan captain with lots of cloaking skill points, MES3, full Infiltrator crew and a warbird should have a nearly perfect cloak. This becomes feasible when the artificial distinciton between cloak and battlecloak is removed.
this actually makes sense. remember the first time they took Defiant into the gamma quadrant? the abilities of the BOFF (romulan officer) and the skill levels of the captain (sisko) allowed them to realize the ship was generating enough power to be seen through the cloak. they corrected it and were successful. it would also make the Nebula's abilities to create a detection grid a bit more worthwhile
this actually makes sense. remember the first time they took Defiant into the gamma quadrant? the abilities of the BOFF (romulan officer) and the skill levels of the captain (sisko) allowed them to realize the ship was generating enough power to be seen through the cloak. they corrected it and were successful. it would also make the Nebula's abilities to create a detection grid a bit more worthwhile
Add to your signature: And launch a wing of ballstring fighters. :P:D
So, give em buffs and romulans will no longer be superior. That sounds a bit stupid, dont you think?
It is supossed that every faction has its own pros and cons. Romulans are superior. Period. Thats how it needs to be. If you want a game based on the star trek universe.
Based on what?
The Klingons developed a prototype ship that could fire while cloaked in the late 23rd century, it took the Romulans nearly a hundred years to field a ship that could do the same. :rolleyes:
The Romulans may have been the original inventors that shared that technology with the Klingons, but the klingons have had a further hundred years to continue to develop and refine the technology on their own.
Given that ALL Klingon and Romulan ships canonicly make use of a cloaking device as their part of their core battle doctrine, there is no reason whatsoever to assert that Klingon cloaking technology is in any way inferior.
I thought the 'artificial construct' was to not be able to fire while under cloak?!
Anyway, sure, battle cloaks for all cloakers, why not! Would bring an easy semblance of balance to the races again. Giving us Roms a battle cloak, on top of already having access to SRO's, was adding insult to injury as it is.
Unless i am mistaken the only two ships who fired while cloaked were Kang's vessel and the Nemesis Scimitar.
Balance won't be an issue. BoP get flanking bonus and a small increase in hull, Klingon cruisers and Battle cruisers gain cloak while under fire.
Defiant and Galaxy-X gain cloak while under fire.
Romulans are left out, but they had nothing to complain with regards to cloaks anyway.
It evens out pretty good, perhaps even slightly in favor of the KDF but nothing earth shattering.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Based on what? The Klingons developed a prototype ship that could fire while cloaked in the late 23rd century, it took the Romulans nearly a hundred years to field a ship that could do the same. :rolleyes:
The Romulans may have been the original inventors that shared that technology with the Klingons, but the klingons have had a further hundred years to continue to develop and refine the technology on their own.
Given that ALL Klingon and Romulan ships canonicly make use of a cloaking device as their part of their core battle doctrine, there is no reason whatsoever to assert that Klingon cloaking technology is in any way inferior.
Yes and another one was never seen or heard from again.
OP, battlecloak and cloak existed as different versions of cloak in order to balance the ships out for PvP. We see the problems caused by warbirds all having battlecloak in pvp.
But given the clear importance Cryptic places on pvp....
No battle cloak.
No regular cloak.
BoPs only.
Final Destination.
As much as we all enjoyed that haiku in order to progress the discussion i think you need to elaborate on your arguments.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Case in point because we can't have raiders running around with BC bonus damage, and flanking capability if we allowed all cloaking ships to cloak while under fire, it would provide a tad to much advantage and make these the only desirable KDF ship for the most part.
The idea is to allow all ships that can cloak to not have to leave battle, but not gain too much of an advantage over one another all while keeping the Romulans as is.
Well the KDF BOP were given their Flanking Bonuses and they were give a buff to their Alpha Strikes has well :eek:
I can't wait till season 9 to goes live so I can start using my Stealth Bomber B'rel again
Well the KDF BOP were given their Flanking Bonuses and they were give a buff to their Alpha Strikes has well :eek:
I can't wait till season 9 to goes live so I can start using my Stealth Bomber B'rel again
Yes the boost they gain is fine, but they and they alone should have this advantage.
As for any ship outside of the RR gaining cloaking while under fire, they should not be fully on par with the RR.
KDF should remain at a 15% cloaking dmg bonus with lengthier cloaking times (due to the quantity of cloaking capable ships vs the FED), while the Feds should get the 25% cloaking dmg bonus with regular cloaking times and the limitation of ships and needed console.
This would be better balanced still allowing the RR to be the superior cloakers, but give the other factions the ability to cloak while under fire.
there is no reason whatsoever to assert that Klingon cloaking technology is in any way inferior.
Except for the fact that it was shown at least once that if a Klingon ship got close enough they had a noticeable radiation surge, whereas the Romulans seemingly never had that particular problem.
Actually TOS explained that as cloaks require so much power to run they don't have any to spare for weapons.
Except for the fact that it was shown at least once that if a Klingon ship got close enough they had a noticeable radiation surge, whereas the Romulans seemingly never had that particular problem.
That problem nope, but it was said in DS9 they had a slight issue when at warp (Don't recall exactly due to me not being able to pull up the episode atm but it's season 3 ep 1 where they go into the gamma quadrant looking for the founders)
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Actually TOS explained that as cloaks require so much power to run they don't have any to spare for weapons.
Except for the fact that it was shown at least once that if a Klingon ship got close enough they had a noticeable radiation surge, whereas the Romulans seemingly never had that particular problem.
There is also something important to keep in mind here. The ship that was picking up the energy signature was NOT the ship being fired upon. It was another ship, and the one firing needed to be close enough to the Enterprise to make it look like they were the ones firing the weapons not only to the Klingons, but also the crew of the Enterprise as well.
At no point in the series or movies did a Klingon, or Romulan ship get that close to the ship they were about to shoot before firing. Shooting at that close of range would have been dangerous to both ships. Therefore, using that particular scene would not be an accurate one to base the quality of a cloak that a Klingon ship can use when cloaked.
Besides, in the end of the movie, they couldn't pickup the energy signature from the ship as it was cloaked.
It has been years since that was suppose to happen. To assume that they would not have made advancements over the years is the same as saying that the Gal Dread's lance should be able to one-shot the same type of Klingon ship it did in one episode. Over the years it only makes sense that all of a ship's systems, and it's hull designs are improved. Otherwise it would mean that any Scimitar that fires a Thaleron attack at any ship, and hits it will kill all life onboard.
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That problem nope, but it was said in DS9 they had a slight issue when at warp (Don't recall exactly due to me not being able to pull up the episode atm but it's season 3 ep 1 where they go into the gamma quadrant looking for the founders)
Devs i think it is time to revamp the cloak, either make a universal console you can buy for any ship, or integrate the cloaks into the ships that are supposed to have them so they are not eating up a slot where a better console could be used, i am sure you catch my drift, AKA TIME FOR CHANGE, lol , Specificly the Dreadnought and Defiant need to have their cloaks integrated into the ship so its not taking up console slot this must be done ASAP
they can't since the release of the avenger with its ability to use the cloak console that comes with the defiant and Gal-x.
they will never make it so a cloak console can go on any ship. And when the Gal-X and Defiant had integreated cloak... they also LOST a console spot for that.... so tell me, you want integrated cloak for them back, would you be happy with a 9 console fleet level ship?
Well, I will refrain from stating my opinion about all this, BUT, I will tell ya what really...
Grinds my Gears
1. I'm in a ship with cloak of some kind
2. I warp into a mission
3. I think I should cloak due to enemy turrets or ships before proceeding so I can scope things out.
4. My objective is to approach an object (like a satellite probe or whatever) and interact with it.
5. Then just accessing this object breaks my cloak.
OR, if there is a dialog that pops up, it breaks my cloak. (I'm looking at YOU Tovan)
OR if it's a mission where they know I'm coming, and send a message to my ship first, EVEN THOUGH I"M CLOAKED, it breaks my cloak.
OR I fly into a nebula of some kind, which is probably just gasses and dust, it breaks my cloak.
OR, someone on C Deck flushes a toilet, it breaks my cloak, etc etc.
I think they should change that. The only thing that should break cloak is if the enemy detects me with some kind of sensor ability, or a security grid, or if one of their hidden weapons (like some kind of mine) attacks my ship, or if I deactivate the cloak. Basically, only hostile actions or the preparations for hostile action should break a cloak.
But, that's just my opinion. Someone else might have a perfectly good explanation for why it is the way it is.
I'm so confused. I just posted something similar to this the other day, and a majority of the responses were elite trolly "you suck, that's dumb" responses like so many on these forums.
I read the first page of yours, and everyone is on board LOL. Oh well, I'm for it too, it makes no sense, and my original point was that the Federation ships that can cloak(very few) should have battle cloak.
There should be 1 ship that has battle cloak(unless the powers that be have decided other ships have been designed using the technology) and that is the Bird of Prey from STVI that could fire torpedos while cloaked.
Told you they'd come^^
To summ it up:
1. I'm all for faction diversity, but if that depends on cloak alone this game is lost.
2. I still think the federation cloak thing... well its complicated.
Feds shouldn't have cloak in general. Thats simply a matter of their identity.
3. It makes sense to have SOME ships like the Defiant of GX have cloak... because, in contradiction to 1. THAT is a matter of those ships "identity". But not more.
4. Since we, other then we should, have things like the "fanboys dream" avengers "cloak synergy" that should be applied to more ships. Actually every ship that isn't a "federation design" qualifies for beeing considered for that feature. Kumari, D'Kyr U(both need love), that caitain carrier... essentially everything that isn't stafleet design.
Sl while the avenger shouldn't have the ability to cloak, some other ships might...
5. Battlecloak... does not make sense in the current form. A form of advanced cloak, yes. But being unable to cloak while being on red alert, no matter is there is an enemy alive left... no. Everyone should be able to cloak whenever he wants, aware of the risks that come with it. "battle cloak" should me<n benefits from the cloak itself, not the ability to cloak. Damage resisctace when cloaking, longer damage buff after decloak, both, something different... the current difference lost any reasonable base.
At no point in the series or movies did a Klingon, or Romulan ship get that close to the ship they were about to shoot before firing. Shooting at that close of range would have been dangerous to both ships. Therefore, using that particular scene would not be an accurate one to base the quality of a cloak that a Klingon ship can use when cloaked.
In "Face of the Enemy" (TNG S6) the Romulan ship was going to go right under the Enterprise to see if it would move (which meant they could track the cloak); if they did move, the Roms would immediately fire and blow up the Enterprise at point-blank range before it had a chance to react. The rom captain had no fear of splash damage at all. What you are talking about is something from one episode that has been ignored completely by all other episodes since.
Incidentally that episode stated that, because of the nature of the singularity cores, the rom engineers had to keep a very close eye on the balance of the warp fields, or else there would be an intermittent magnetic signature that could be tracked if the enemy could figure out what it was (and it was purposely messing up that balance that led to just that outcome).
Comments
Exactly that is a combined 23%, would they like it if all KDF ships had a 25% just for uncloaking and loss the flanking bonus?
This would now make the Romulans lose that uniqueness, besides raiders are getting a boost to flanking anyways.
http://community.arcgames.com/en/news/star-trek-online/detail/3042123
To say they need perfectly match Romulans is a no no.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
If you dont play pvp (i think nowadays only a few peple plays pvp) you dont need cloak at all.
The original Defiant did and it was far from perfect, a Vorcha class was able to penetrate it after a short time in Way of the Warrior pt 1
Romulan ships should remain the superior cloakers, after all they are sided with either faction as an ally, if they were a separate faction than it would be an issue.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Just make sure the normal cloak has a longer cooldown before being able to recloak and give battlecloak a brief window of shielded coverage while a ship is still cloaking. Or, just give normal cloak a longer cloaking time than battlecloak.
So, give em buffs and romulans will no longer be superior. That sounds a bit stupid, dont you think?
It is supossed that every faction has its own pros and cons. Romulans are superior. Period. Thats how it needs to be. If you want a game based on the star trek universe.
I thought the 'artificial construct' was to not be able to fire while under cloak?!
Anyway, sure, battle cloaks for all cloakers, why not!
Exactly as the KDF and Fed need have some penalty so as to not infringe on the RR.
Raiders can remain with the changes being implemented, but for standard KDF no more than the already 15% dmg bonus with normal lengthy cloaking, for the Feds give them a 25% dmg bonus but suffer the already existing limitation of cloaking ships via console, and a regular cloaking time.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
this actually makes sense. remember the first time they took Defiant into the gamma quadrant? the abilities of the BOFF (romulan officer) and the skill levels of the captain (sisko) allowed them to realize the ship was generating enough power to be seen through the cloak. they corrected it and were successful. it would also make the Nebula's abilities to create a detection grid a bit more worthwhile
Add to your signature: And launch a wing of ballstring fighters. :P:D
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Based on what?
The Klingons developed a prototype ship that could fire while cloaked in the late 23rd century, it took the Romulans nearly a hundred years to field a ship that could do the same. :rolleyes:
The Romulans may have been the original inventors that shared that technology with the Klingons, but the klingons have had a further hundred years to continue to develop and refine the technology on their own.
Given that ALL Klingon and Romulan ships canonicly make use of a cloaking device as their part of their core battle doctrine, there is no reason whatsoever to assert that Klingon cloaking technology is in any way inferior.
Unless i am mistaken the only two ships who fired while cloaked were Kang's vessel and the Nemesis Scimitar.
Balance won't be an issue. BoP get flanking bonus and a small increase in hull, Klingon cruisers and Battle cruisers gain cloak while under fire.
Defiant and Galaxy-X gain cloak while under fire.
Romulans are left out, but they had nothing to complain with regards to cloaks anyway.
It evens out pretty good, perhaps even slightly in favor of the KDF but nothing earth shattering.
Exactly
/10char
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Yes and another one was never seen or heard from again.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
But given the clear importance Cryptic places on pvp....
(snicker)
No regular cloak.
BoPs only.
Final Destination.
As much as we all enjoyed that haiku in order to progress the discussion i think you need to elaborate on your arguments.
Well the KDF BOP were given their Flanking Bonuses and they were give a buff to their Alpha Strikes has well :eek:
I can't wait till season 9 to goes live so I can start using my Stealth Bomber B'rel again
Yes the boost they gain is fine, but they and they alone should have this advantage.
As for any ship outside of the RR gaining cloaking while under fire, they should not be fully on par with the RR.
KDF should remain at a 15% cloaking dmg bonus with lengthier cloaking times (due to the quantity of cloaking capable ships vs the FED), while the Feds should get the 25% cloaking dmg bonus with regular cloaking times and the limitation of ships and needed console.
This would be better balanced still allowing the RR to be the superior cloakers, but give the other factions the ability to cloak while under fire.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Actually TOS explained that as cloaks require so much power to run they don't have any to spare for weapons.
Except for the fact that it was shown at least once that if a Klingon ship got close enough they had a noticeable radiation surge, whereas the Romulans seemingly never had that particular problem.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
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There is also something important to keep in mind here. The ship that was picking up the energy signature was NOT the ship being fired upon. It was another ship, and the one firing needed to be close enough to the Enterprise to make it look like they were the ones firing the weapons not only to the Klingons, but also the crew of the Enterprise as well.
At no point in the series or movies did a Klingon, or Romulan ship get that close to the ship they were about to shoot before firing. Shooting at that close of range would have been dangerous to both ships. Therefore, using that particular scene would not be an accurate one to base the quality of a cloak that a Klingon ship can use when cloaked.
Besides, in the end of the movie, they couldn't pickup the energy signature from the ship as it was cloaked.
It has been years since that was suppose to happen. To assume that they would not have made advancements over the years is the same as saying that the Gal Dread's lance should be able to one-shot the same type of Klingon ship it did in one episode. Over the years it only makes sense that all of a ship's systems, and it's hull designs are improved. Otherwise it would mean that any Scimitar that fires a Thaleron attack at any ship, and hits it will kill all life onboard.
See http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/T%27Rul . Where was it that I read the Defiant got some old Rommy cloak and not the new and shiny one?
they can't since the release of the avenger with its ability to use the cloak console that comes with the defiant and Gal-x.
they will never make it so a cloak console can go on any ship. And when the Gal-X and Defiant had integreated cloak... they also LOST a console spot for that.... so tell me, you want integrated cloak for them back, would you be happy with a 9 console fleet level ship?
Grinds my Gears
1. I'm in a ship with cloak of some kind
2. I warp into a mission
3. I think I should cloak due to enemy turrets or ships before proceeding so I can scope things out.
4. My objective is to approach an object (like a satellite probe or whatever) and interact with it.
5. Then just accessing this object breaks my cloak.
OR, if there is a dialog that pops up, it breaks my cloak. (I'm looking at YOU Tovan)
OR if it's a mission where they know I'm coming, and send a message to my ship first, EVEN THOUGH I"M CLOAKED, it breaks my cloak.
OR I fly into a nebula of some kind, which is probably just gasses and dust, it breaks my cloak.
OR, someone on C Deck flushes a toilet, it breaks my cloak, etc etc.
I think they should change that. The only thing that should break cloak is if the enemy detects me with some kind of sensor ability, or a security grid, or if one of their hidden weapons (like some kind of mine) attacks my ship, or if I deactivate the cloak. Basically, only hostile actions or the preparations for hostile action should break a cloak.
But, that's just my opinion. Someone else might have a perfectly good explanation for why it is the way it is.
Told you they'd come^^
To summ it up:
1. I'm all for faction diversity, but if that depends on cloak alone this game is lost.
2. I still think the federation cloak thing... well its complicated.
Feds shouldn't have cloak in general. Thats simply a matter of their identity.
3. It makes sense to have SOME ships like the Defiant of GX have cloak... because, in contradiction to 1. THAT is a matter of those ships "identity". But not more.
4. Since we, other then we should, have things like the "fanboys dream" avengers "cloak synergy" that should be applied to more ships. Actually every ship that isn't a "federation design" qualifies for beeing considered for that feature. Kumari, D'Kyr U(both need love), that caitain carrier... essentially everything that isn't stafleet design.
Sl while the avenger shouldn't have the ability to cloak, some other ships might...
5. Battlecloak... does not make sense in the current form. A form of advanced cloak, yes. But being unable to cloak while being on red alert, no matter is there is an enemy alive left... no. Everyone should be able to cloak whenever he wants, aware of the risks that come with it. "battle cloak" should me<n benefits from the cloak itself, not the ability to cloak. Damage resisctace when cloaking, longer damage buff after decloak, both, something different... the current difference lost any reasonable base.
In "Face of the Enemy" (TNG S6) the Romulan ship was going to go right under the Enterprise to see if it would move (which meant they could track the cloak); if they did move, the Roms would immediately fire and blow up the Enterprise at point-blank range before it had a chance to react. The rom captain had no fear of splash damage at all. What you are talking about is something from one episode that has been ignored completely by all other episodes since.
Incidentally that episode stated that, because of the nature of the singularity cores, the rom engineers had to keep a very close eye on the balance of the warp fields, or else there would be an intermittent magnetic signature that could be tracked if the enemy could figure out what it was (and it was purposely messing up that balance that led to just that outcome).