What exactly gives people the idea that the players, who are supposedly so incredibly awesome that if two of them are on a team they will totally annihilate any opposition, won't already dominate a match when they are on their own?
What exactly gives people the idea that the players, who are supposedly so incredibly awesome that if two of them are on a team they will totally annihilate any opposition, won't already dominate a match when they are on their own?
I guess because of pre-planning and setup of offense/defense teamwork?
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I guess because of pre-planning and setup of offense/defense teamwork?
You can't really do any meaningful amount of pre-planning when you have three rogue elements on your side.
And offense/defense teamwork is what happens when players aren't entirely clueless. Any support player worth their salt will identify the main damage dealer via the scoreboard and support that player's attacks, the same goes for damage dealers who turn out not to be the best one on their team - support the primary damage dealer's attacks and keep the healer alive (if there is one).
Voice communications etc. are vastly overrated unless it is a pre-arranged premade vs premade match.
What exactly gives people the idea that the players, who are supposedly so incredibly awesome that if two of them are on a team they will totally annihilate any opposition, won't already dominate a match when they are on their own?
Because the players who feel they should be able to PvP without worrying about skill choice/ship gear and still win, think the only reason they loose is that people who DO put even a little thought into skill choice/gear and use the UNFAIR tactic of 'focus fire' (IE someone uses in game team chat to call one target) - that if you allow two players to automatically do this, it means the single ultra casual PvPer has NO CHANCE at 'fun' (IE winning.)
To me, the fact that the STO Devs caved to a 'no team' queue in the first place shows how little they care about STO PvP in general, and probably have no interest in attempting to really fix the core balance problems that exist in STO PvP. Catering to the apathetic PvPers who don't feel you should have to even consider your build, or even bother to try to work as a team really shows what the STO Devs think of STO PvP. - IE they think nothing of it.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
You can't really do any meaningful amount of pre-planning when you have three rogue elements on your side.
And offense/defense teamwork is what happens when players aren't entirely clueless. Any support player worth their salt will identify the main damage dealer via the scoreboard and support that player's attacks, the same goes for damage dealers who turn out not to be the best one on their team - support the primary damage dealer's attacks and keep the healer alive (if there is one).
Voice communications etc. are vastly overrated unless it is a pre-arranged premade vs premade match.
Yeah, I mean just amongst the 2 people. It's still an improvement and I look forward to it, though I also still prefer the pure pug.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Because one has got to draw the line somewhere. Plus, it's a lot harder to be OP on your own. :cool:
No its not there are some terribad pvpers that only kirk in and when they get destroyed in 2.2 seconds they give up and they are easy kills through out the rest of the match. There are a lot of escort drivers in this game that can take on you avg PvPer that thinks PuG queues are going to be the cats meow. Throw in the good vapers the average PuG will never set foot back into a PvP match PuG or otherwise because their egos will tell them the good players are cheating/haxs/etc.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
Thank goodness in the Star Citizen Universe we are members of The Inquisition!
No evul Klinguns or poor Feds out there, only The inquisition brothers!
By the way, Stol PvPers...join "The Inquisition", the most feared SC Organization...join us, and you'll never fly alone!:cool:
Yeah that will be fun.. anyway.
I can only say this.. I played PvP since 3 Years ago,.. i started with one Friend and we are alone in the arenas.. so what.. we learn a lot from this matches and that make us better. Thats It.
greetings
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
T'lilu SCI./Dxxdavid TAK./STO Inner Circle *** R.I.P. ***
Any two PvPers from a PvP fleet against a five man pug has probably 75% chance of beating the 5 man pug. Once a match starts it is easy to find the weakest link and then bang on it until the match is over. Or kill all 5 in a stagger and kill them as they come back to the scene one by one. Or wait for someone to go zooming around the map at full impulse itching for a fight and gank them while they have all their power in engines.
I mean what is going to happen when a hobo and and a panda are on the same team and the other team is 5 guys from 5 different fleets have little to no experience or only casual experience in PvP.
There have been plenty of cases where 1 man ***** a total 5 man pug over and over, even if skilled, it somewhat shows how unbalanced this game is, at least on the virtue of what is practically possible in this game. Its bad, real bad.
A well set-up game with PvP in it does NOT allow this to happen, no matter how bad the 5 pugs are or how good the 1 guy is that roflstomps them all.
There have been plenty of cases where 1 man ***** a total 5 man pug over and over, even if skilled, it somewhat shows how unbalanced this game is, at least on the virtue of what is practically possible in this game. Its bad, real bad.
A well set-up game with PvP in it does NOT allow this to happen, no matter how bad the 5 pugs are or how good the 1 guy is that roflstomps them all.
I've seen it happen in Counter-Strike multiple times. That's a pretty well set-up PvP game.
Have you even given consideration to the fact that their "Buddies" might be on the opposite side of the fence? Or that you might actually get paired up with a good team and learn somehting? I am yets to see a new player out of the box understand and implement veteran combat tactics. We have ALL suffered bloody beatings... you either learn from it and move on or you avoid PvPing. Here is a suggestion just because you are level 50 does not mean that you are great. Same thing goes with the lockbox ship just because you got one does not mean you got a I WIN button.
It takes consoles,doffs,boffs,specialized weaponry,and knowing how to pilot your ship just to take the battlefield. Time is what determines who gets better.... yeah I got mine handed to me until I made friends with top notch pilots who respected me for not whining or quitting just because I wasn't winning.
Experience will make you better, learning is a hard process.... but the taste of victory is worth it.
Taste of victory? You actually get that from a contest that's determined by who has the highest dps? Or the most broken build? Or beating on a pug team that got the short straw and had to face a premade that has been flying together for a while? That's sad.
What should be done is very simple. A premade queue, where teams are sent automatically, and a pug queue, with no chat or team speak ability, to keep players from coordinating. I still won't play, of course, since I don't find it fun or amusing to run into the same build on different ships over and over again. And that's another thing I made a special point about in another thread, that there should be restrictions on certain abilities based on ship type, to keep the spam of crutch abilities (gravity well 3, tactical team, tykens rift, etc) at a minimum.
It seems like these guys are trying to get their last days of good ol' fashioned pug stomping in before season 9 hits. I thought to myself "well once it hits we can at least have some fun again flying solo". But no, I was assured by a premade last night that "we'll just all pair up and still ruin your day".
So my thought is under the new system that's exactly what's these guys will do. The fleets that love to spam the bs and stomp till the cows come home will just all hop on teamspeak, pair up as many as they can and hit the Q hoping they'll end up together. And with such a small amount of people playing they probably will.
So my message to AdjudicatorHawk or any Dev that will listen is to keep the PUG Q just that. PUG only. No pairing up please. The people that want to fly with a friend, or two, or four can do so in the normal Q that allows full teaming.
Cryptic makes the queue criteria. It's IMPOSSIBLE to 'abuse' a public queue in that, if that allow a team of two to queue and yeams of two do; and get paired together, blame the Cryptic matchmaking system.
My suggestion, just whine harder and get them to reverse the 'teams of 2 can queue'. I don't think it'll help in the long run because you guys who think it's all 'premades' ruining your fun (and you seem to all ANY team that can coordinate fire/cross heal effectively a 'premade' even if it's a couple of players from the same fleet who tried to queue; and 3 unrelated other people (that still manage to coordinate effectively.)
In the end, sorry, you won't get what you want 100% of the time (IE a team of players who don't like to coordinate, don't even really think about their builds; yet still can win in a PvP match); even it the queue criteria was 'no teams of any size can queue, only individuals'. In PvP your ability to coordinate and make an effective build will lead to success more than someone who justs wants to spam that spacebar.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Cryptic makes the queue criteria. It's IMPOSSIBLE to 'abuse' a public queue in that, if that allow a team of two to queue and yeams of two do; and get paired together, blame the Cryptic matchmaking system.
My suggestion, just whine harder and get them to reverse the 'teams of 2 can queue'. I don't think it'll help in the long run because you guys who think it's all 'premades' ruining your fun (and you seem to all ANY team that can coordinate fire/cross heal effectively a 'premade' even if it's a couple of players from the same fleet who tried to queue; and 3 unrelated other people (that still manage to coordinate effectively.)
In the end, sorry, you won't get what you want 100% of the time (IE a team of players who don't like to coordinate, don't even really think about their builds; yet still can win in a PvP match); even it the queue criteria was 'no teams of any size can queue, only individuals'. In PvP your ability to coordinate and make an effective build will lead to success more than someone who justs wants to spam that spacebar.
You sound like an idiot. I'm really getting tired of people in these forums with zero interest in having constructive conversations feeling the need to chime in on every freaking thread. To many trolls and douche bags in this PvP forum. I'm done with it.
You sound like an idiot. I'm really getting tired of people in these forums with zero interest in having constructive conversations feeling the need to chime in on every freaking thread. To many trolls and douche bags in this PvP forum. I'm done with it.
You mean sort of like your bad pvpers vs the good pvpers mentality. we get bashed when we tell cryptic this is out of balance and is going to effect PvP and it stays in you fall victim to it and blame the pvp community for using broken skills, and then turn around and blame the PvP community for nerfing your uber PvE skills that are broken in PvP. I am glad your are done.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
The alternative, "not being able to play with a friend", is certainly worse and even less appealing.
Nope! Why? Because the pug stomping will continue and no one will queue, with or without a friend. Unless they're PvPers in a premade.
Edit: to be fair though, what has Cryptic done that made anyone think they could do something good without adding their own special touch and F#$%ing it up? Its like they have a policy against simply making something good and insist on always adding a "but" to everything they do.
Nope! Why? Because the pug stomping will continue and no one will queue, with or without a friend. Unless they're PvPers in a premade.
Edit: to be fair though, what has Cryptic done that made anyone think they could do something good without adding their own special touch and F#$%ing it up? Its like they have a policy against simply making something good and insist on always adding a "but" to everything they do.
Whether its a two man team or a solo, a good player will stomp at least 50% of the pugs in the queue. Moving a two man team to the "Premade" Queue will probably destroy PvP even further or move PvP into the private matches only which would further dilute the PvP in the game. Two man teams have multitude of reasons to team. Just like a handful of "Premades" rolled through the queues so it seems all "fleet" teams are now considered premades.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
A well set-up game with PvP in it does NOT allow this to happen, no matter how bad the 5 pugs are or how good the 1 guy is that roflstomps them all.
That would be true if all of the players were competent, but I fear you underestimate how bad some people are at this game. It's not like most other online games where the majority of the people actually know what they're doing. The gap between bad players and good players is larger in this game than in any other one that I've played (especially for one that has been released for so long), but that is not the fault of the PvP system itself-- it's the fault of the players.
You could blame it on PvE for being so easy that it doesn't force a player to actually learn how to play. Or you could blame it on the complex nature of gear and powers. But what it comes down to in the end is the unwillingness of the player to learn how the actual system works.
Maybe this sounds harsh to some, or perhaps arrogant, and if you are one of those people, I would say you still have a lot of learning to do (as do we all, but some much, much more than others). So instead of sitting on your laurels with the same old build and strategy (or lack thereof) that gets you killed in a matter of seconds, has one-tenth the damage of the high damage dealers on your team, and you never actually send any heals or support your teammates in any way whatsoever, well, it might be time to learn how to play since divine intervention seems unlikely.
That would be true if all of the players were competent, but I fear you underestimate how bad some people are at this game. It's not like most other online games where the majority of the people actually know what they're doing. The gap between bad players and good players is larger in this game than in any other one that I've played (especially for one that has been released for so long), but that is not the fault of the PvP system itself-- it's the fault of the players.
You could blame it on PvE for being so easy that it doesn't force a player to actually learn how to play. Or you could blame it on the complex nature of gear and powers. But what it comes down to in the end is the unwillingness of the player to learn how the actual system works.
Maybe this sounds harsh to some, or perhaps arrogant, and if you are one of those people, I would say you still have a lot of learning to do (as do we all, but some much, much more than others). So instead of sitting on your laurels with the same old build and strategy (or lack thereof) that gets you killed in a matter of seconds, has one-tenth the damage of the high damage dealers on your team, and you never actually send any heals or support your teammates in any way whatsoever, well, it might be time to learn how to play since divine intervention seems unlikely.
I was asked in TS the other day what "nuke" meant. No BS.
How does someone not know the name of the primary science captain skill? Or what it does?
The game neither teaches you this, nor is it necessary to know in the PvElol content.
I dont consider this player dumb or anything, but having to explain a basic game mechanic/power to someone after theyve been playing for a long time... was a "really??" moment for me.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
That would be true if all of the players were competent, but I fear you underestimate how bad some people are at this game. It's not like most other online games where the majority of the people actually know what they're doing. The gap between bad players and good players is larger in this game than in any other one that I've played (especially for one that has been released for so long), but that is not the fault of the PvP system itself-- it's the fault of the players.
You could blame it on PvE for being so easy that it doesn't force a player to actually learn how to play. Or you could blame it on the complex nature of gear and powers. But what it comes down to in the end is the unwillingness of the player to learn how the actual system works.
Maybe this sounds harsh to some, or perhaps arrogant, and if you are one of those people, I would say you still have a lot of learning to do (as do we all, but some much, much more than others). So instead of sitting on your laurels with the same old build and strategy (or lack thereof) that gets you killed in a matter of seconds, has one-tenth the damage of the high damage dealers on your team, and you never actually send any heals or support your teammates in any way whatsoever, well, it might be time to learn how to play since divine intervention seems unlikely.
Oh i see what you mean. I kind agree sometimes as well. But its partly cryptics fault for bad descriptions, (skill tree, item powers, what covers this, what covers that, etc.)
But yeh I cant even watch Opvp anymore without facepalming within 30 seconds.
I learned all the hard way, 1/2 years of puggin, a few fleets here and there, etc. There is nothing to do about this though, even the core of the gamers being Trek, you would assume them quite high in regards to mechanics and gameplay i guess. Main thing is, nobody learnt me anything. (Altho mini tries ppl to believe he was my little dirty godfather ;P)
Though a discussion about this leads to nowhere but frustrating players or makin em angry, at the end they have to pull the strings. Its all about attitude.
I never believed PvP was so low on population because of the horrible PvP in this game OR the horribly easy PvE for that matter, it used to be great in S3< imho but even then the pvp community was quite scarce.
I been pugging a lot the last few days, ahh throwbacks to the old times for me. That being said, I figured out three things that are not a good thing.
1. In most cases I am in no danger of dying, ever. The exceptions are when theres some semblance of coordination or another good player is on the other side with the right foil to my setup.
2. In most cases I am by far the highst damage dealer/killer on any ship, see 1 for the exceptions, but these seem exceedingly rare, as in most of the players that seem good enough to outplay me dont pug or I just havent run into them in the queues the last few days.
3. People still throw fits when they lose, and everything is still lolpremadevicesquad even with just 1 or 2 of us in the match... wtf?
Just honesty and no this isnt ego, its just some facts. I got my TRIBBLE handed to me more than once by premade groups but thats par for the course. My Avenger and Vaper builds are going to be absolutely sick in these new pug queues and I suspect for a lot of you youll see similar results on your high survival builds. Even with 3-4 pounding on my Avenger I was surviving and getting kills due to pure lack of coordination or any kind of attempt to watch my buffs for holes.
I dunno man, I honestly think this pug queue thing is going to end very very badly for the puggers if even I am having success like this "now"
I am still convinced the cries for a pug queue were more cries for all of the good players to stop playing or something so the casuals could farm each other easily.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Even with 3-4 pounding on my Avenger I was surviving and getting kills due to pure lack of coordination or any kind of attempt to watch my buffs for holes.
The misguided team ability change made it so that the only way to kill a competent player with a tanky build is through sheer team work. System CD shouldn't go back up to 15, but 10 would do nicely. 0 breaks the game.
I am still convinced the cries for a pug queue were more cries for all of the good players to stop playing or something so the casuals could farm each other easily.
It's far more simple than that. Players who lack the intelligence and self reflection to blame themselves for personal mistakes always reach out to the closest and most easily vilified excuse available. Blaming premades is just the most convenient one, but rest assured even in a queue with absolutely no teaming they would find something else to rally against.
The misguided team ability change made it so that the only way to kill a competent player with a tanky build is through sheer team work. System CD shouldn't go back up to 15, but 10 would do nicely. 0 breaks the game.
You know though it really doesn't break the game at all.
The "tanky" builds you are talking about running all 3 teams are terrible. They can't really keep themselves up any better then before. They give up to many resist skills, and or to many doff slots to make that work. As for the odd ship that runns an extra team... again having a spare sci team every 30s is hardly game breaking... and if they choose to doff it to get it to 15s they trade far to much on ships that should be doing something else.
It makes the "pug" style tanks a bit harder to kill... really though who cares. They are still useless builds that don't really offer anything in a match.
If anything I have found it easier to kill those people anyway... again I'm fine with them getting an extra clear if they are trading resistance skills for it.
This was one of those changes that at first blush makes you think hmmm that is going to break something. Really though after seeing it in practice, if anything it has made people even squishier.
The silly hybrids like the tholian carriers are the only ships that can really go super healer and be able to run mulitple teams and still provide resistance. Still the best players I have seen in those ships haven't touched there builds. Those that have have slighly better spike healing and are perhaps slightly better at catching a vapers spike if they are really fast... when they do that though they are weaker healers for 15s... and I half decent teams exploit that on purpose and perhaps even by fluke.
The stuff that is more game breaking right now are the same things that where before this change... A2B on the wrong cool down and FAW as a mechanic.
Comments
I guess because of pre-planning and setup of offense/defense teamwork?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
And offense/defense teamwork is what happens when players aren't entirely clueless. Any support player worth their salt will identify the main damage dealer via the scoreboard and support that player's attacks, the same goes for damage dealers who turn out not to be the best one on their team - support the primary damage dealer's attacks and keep the healer alive (if there is one).
Voice communications etc. are vastly overrated unless it is a pre-arranged premade vs premade match.
Because the players who feel they should be able to PvP without worrying about skill choice/ship gear and still win, think the only reason they loose is that people who DO put even a little thought into skill choice/gear and use the UNFAIR tactic of 'focus fire' (IE someone uses in game team chat to call one target) - that if you allow two players to automatically do this, it means the single ultra casual PvPer has NO CHANCE at 'fun' (IE winning.)
To me, the fact that the STO Devs caved to a 'no team' queue in the first place shows how little they care about STO PvP in general, and probably have no interest in attempting to really fix the core balance problems that exist in STO PvP. Catering to the apathetic PvPers who don't feel you should have to even consider your build, or even bother to try to work as a team really shows what the STO Devs think of STO PvP. - IE they think nothing of it.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Yeah, I mean just amongst the 2 people. It's still an improvement and I look forward to it, though I also still prefer the pure pug.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
No its not there are some terribad pvpers that only kirk in and when they get destroyed in 2.2 seconds they give up and they are easy kills through out the rest of the match. There are a lot of escort drivers in this game that can take on you avg PvPer that thinks PuG queues are going to be the cats meow. Throw in the good vapers the average PuG will never set foot back into a PvP match PuG or otherwise because their egos will tell them the good players are cheating/haxs/etc.
Yeah that will be fun.. anyway.
I can only say this.. I played PvP since 3 Years ago,.. i started with one Friend and we are alone in the arenas.. so what.. we learn a lot from this matches and that make us better. Thats It.
greetings
*** R.I.P. ***
There have been plenty of cases where 1 man ***** a total 5 man pug over and over, even if skilled, it somewhat shows how unbalanced this game is, at least on the virtue of what is practically possible in this game. Its bad, real bad.
A well set-up game with PvP in it does NOT allow this to happen, no matter how bad the 5 pugs are or how good the 1 guy is that roflstomps them all.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Please keep the QQ to a minimum.
>>>PUNISH THE FEDs<<<
>>>Positive Feedback from a PvE HERO<<<
Do you work for cryptic?
LMAO - if I say yes will everyone hate me
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Please keep the QQ to a minimum.
>>>PUNISH THE FEDs<<<
>>>Positive Feedback from a PvE HERO<<<
I've seen it happen in Counter-Strike multiple times. That's a pretty well set-up PvP game.
Taste of victory? You actually get that from a contest that's determined by who has the highest dps? Or the most broken build? Or beating on a pug team that got the short straw and had to face a premade that has been flying together for a while? That's sad.
What should be done is very simple. A premade queue, where teams are sent automatically, and a pug queue, with no chat or team speak ability, to keep players from coordinating. I still won't play, of course, since I don't find it fun or amusing to run into the same build on different ships over and over again. And that's another thing I made a special point about in another thread, that there should be restrictions on certain abilities based on ship type, to keep the spam of crutch abilities (gravity well 3, tactical team, tykens rift, etc) at a minimum.
Cryptic makes the queue criteria. It's IMPOSSIBLE to 'abuse' a public queue in that, if that allow a team of two to queue and yeams of two do; and get paired together, blame the Cryptic matchmaking system.
My suggestion, just whine harder and get them to reverse the 'teams of 2 can queue'. I don't think it'll help in the long run because you guys who think it's all 'premades' ruining your fun (and you seem to all ANY team that can coordinate fire/cross heal effectively a 'premade' even if it's a couple of players from the same fleet who tried to queue; and 3 unrelated other people (that still manage to coordinate effectively.)
In the end, sorry, you won't get what you want 100% of the time (IE a team of players who don't like to coordinate, don't even really think about their builds; yet still can win in a PvP match); even it the queue criteria was 'no teams of any size can queue, only individuals'. In PvP your ability to coordinate and make an effective build will lead to success more than someone who justs wants to spam that spacebar.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Roses are red, violets are blue, I wanna f**k you with a rake.
Love, Zero.
Oh, I love a good pug stompin' too.
You sound like an idiot. I'm really getting tired of people in these forums with zero interest in having constructive conversations feeling the need to chime in on every freaking thread. To many trolls and douche bags in this PvP forum. I'm done with it.
You mean sort of like your bad pvpers vs the good pvpers mentality. we get bashed when we tell cryptic this is out of balance and is going to effect PvP and it stays in you fall victim to it and blame the pvp community for using broken skills, and then turn around and blame the PvP community for nerfing your uber PvE skills that are broken in PvP. I am glad your are done.
Nope! Why? Because the pug stomping will continue and no one will queue, with or without a friend. Unless they're PvPers in a premade.
Edit: to be fair though, what has Cryptic done that made anyone think they could do something good without adding their own special touch and F#$%ing it up? Its like they have a policy against simply making something good and insist on always adding a "but" to everything they do.
Whether its a two man team or a solo, a good player will stomp at least 50% of the pugs in the queue. Moving a two man team to the "Premade" Queue will probably destroy PvP even further or move PvP into the private matches only which would further dilute the PvP in the game. Two man teams have multitude of reasons to team. Just like a handful of "Premades" rolled through the queues so it seems all "fleet" teams are now considered premades.
That would be true if all of the players were competent, but I fear you underestimate how bad some people are at this game. It's not like most other online games where the majority of the people actually know what they're doing. The gap between bad players and good players is larger in this game than in any other one that I've played (especially for one that has been released for so long), but that is not the fault of the PvP system itself-- it's the fault of the players.
You could blame it on PvE for being so easy that it doesn't force a player to actually learn how to play. Or you could blame it on the complex nature of gear and powers. But what it comes down to in the end is the unwillingness of the player to learn how the actual system works.
Maybe this sounds harsh to some, or perhaps arrogant, and if you are one of those people, I would say you still have a lot of learning to do (as do we all, but some much, much more than others). So instead of sitting on your laurels with the same old build and strategy (or lack thereof) that gets you killed in a matter of seconds, has one-tenth the damage of the high damage dealers on your team, and you never actually send any heals or support your teammates in any way whatsoever, well, it might be time to learn how to play since divine intervention seems unlikely.
@DevolvedOne
I was asked in TS the other day what "nuke" meant. No BS.
How does someone not know the name of the primary science captain skill? Or what it does?
The game neither teaches you this, nor is it necessary to know in the PvElol content.
I dont consider this player dumb or anything, but having to explain a basic game mechanic/power to someone after theyve been playing for a long time... was a "really??" moment for me.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
''The most disgusting ship you can ever see in the universe. Yes. Truly.''
______
Someone random
Oh i see what you mean. I kind agree sometimes as well. But its partly cryptics fault for bad descriptions, (skill tree, item powers, what covers this, what covers that, etc.)
But yeh I cant even watch Opvp anymore without facepalming within 30 seconds.
I learned all the hard way, 1/2 years of puggin, a few fleets here and there, etc. There is nothing to do about this though, even the core of the gamers being Trek, you would assume them quite high in regards to mechanics and gameplay i guess. Main thing is, nobody learnt me anything. (Altho mini tries ppl to believe he was my little dirty godfather ;P)
Though a discussion about this leads to nowhere but frustrating players or makin em angry, at the end they have to pull the strings. Its all about attitude.
I never believed PvP was so low on population because of the horrible PvP in this game OR the horribly easy PvE for that matter, it used to be great in S3< imho but even then the pvp community was quite scarce.
Its all to do with the people.
1. In most cases I am in no danger of dying, ever. The exceptions are when theres some semblance of coordination or another good player is on the other side with the right foil to my setup.
2. In most cases I am by far the highst damage dealer/killer on any ship, see 1 for the exceptions, but these seem exceedingly rare, as in most of the players that seem good enough to outplay me dont pug or I just havent run into them in the queues the last few days.
3. People still throw fits when they lose, and everything is still lolpremadevicesquad even with just 1 or 2 of us in the match... wtf?
Just honesty and no this isnt ego, its just some facts. I got my TRIBBLE handed to me more than once by premade groups but thats par for the course. My Avenger and Vaper builds are going to be absolutely sick in these new pug queues and I suspect for a lot of you youll see similar results on your high survival builds. Even with 3-4 pounding on my Avenger I was surviving and getting kills due to pure lack of coordination or any kind of attempt to watch my buffs for holes.
I dunno man, I honestly think this pug queue thing is going to end very very badly for the puggers if even I am having success like this "now"
I am still convinced the cries for a pug queue were more cries for all of the good players to stop playing or something so the casuals could farm each other easily.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
The misguided team ability change made it so that the only way to kill a competent player with a tanky build is through sheer team work. System CD shouldn't go back up to 15, but 10 would do nicely. 0 breaks the game.
It's far more simple than that. Players who lack the intelligence and self reflection to blame themselves for personal mistakes always reach out to the closest and most easily vilified excuse available. Blaming premades is just the most convenient one, but rest assured even in a queue with absolutely no teaming they would find something else to rally against.
You know though it really doesn't break the game at all.
The "tanky" builds you are talking about running all 3 teams are terrible. They can't really keep themselves up any better then before. They give up to many resist skills, and or to many doff slots to make that work. As for the odd ship that runns an extra team... again having a spare sci team every 30s is hardly game breaking... and if they choose to doff it to get it to 15s they trade far to much on ships that should be doing something else.
It makes the "pug" style tanks a bit harder to kill... really though who cares. They are still useless builds that don't really offer anything in a match.
If anything I have found it easier to kill those people anyway... again I'm fine with them getting an extra clear if they are trading resistance skills for it.
This was one of those changes that at first blush makes you think hmmm that is going to break something. Really though after seeing it in practice, if anything it has made people even squishier.
The silly hybrids like the tholian carriers are the only ships that can really go super healer and be able to run mulitple teams and still provide resistance. Still the best players I have seen in those ships haven't touched there builds. Those that have have slighly better spike healing and are perhaps slightly better at catching a vapers spike if they are really fast... when they do that though they are weaker healers for 15s... and I half decent teams exploit that on purpose and perhaps even by fluke.
The stuff that is more game breaking right now are the same things that where before this change... A2B on the wrong cool down and FAW as a mechanic.