2 of the best pvp fleets fighting each other. PvP veterans. Duh, you're gonna get some crazy TRIBBLE, and the most experienced team will win. Looking at the comments though, you'll see there were only 2 pandas there.
2 of the best pvp fleets fighting each other. PvP veterans. Duh, you're gonna get some crazy TRIBBLE, and the most experienced team will win. Looking at the comments though, you'll see there were only 2 pandas there.
The PvP vets in this game could be thrown together on a team and probably give most premades a god run.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
I understand but with the map being more constrained you really will not have no where to run. Not to mention it is a race. I will take my chances with you sitting in cloak waiting on CDs.
True, I was thinking of it from a briar patch stand point. Perhaps the wolverine from hell disco ball of death would be more effective
You've got that backwards. It should be Play 2 LRN. Nothing can be learned without playing. Anyone that goes into PvP expecting to rofflestomp the other team the same way it is in PvE, they'll always walk away frustrated. If newbs keep playing against people that rofflestomp them, watch what they use, and when they use it, then they might learn something from it. They should forget about winning and worry about studying how their opponents play, so they can learn how to beat them or at least copy their tactics.
Your welcome. You should also pay better attention while you are lurking... cause.
1) we never asked for a solo que
Ummm ... right .
So how about the thread titled "Need for PUG only PvP queues" -- which can be summed up by response #6 from dontdrunkimshoot : "its once a week isnt it, this thread" .
Let me retell a little bit of STO PvP history.
Thanks but I was there too .
I may have only pugged , and I may not remember the players names , but the Year 1 : Excelsior VS BOP fests are still in my memory ... -- and I consider those good times ... (despite the slight OP-ness of the Excelsior , thanks to Gecko) .
But as I said , good times ... , no matter if I was in an Excelsior or a BOP (a Bop with a hilarious rainbow setup , with a quantum in the back) .
But that was a long-long time ago ... .
Since those days we've seen the emergence of the PVP fleets and the influx of the "gamers" .
And not only have I witnessed the stomping of pugs by premades , but also the long-long list of excuses that these PVP fleets have used to not face off with each other ... -- one of the interesting theories I've read about this here , was that if one PVP fleet continuously facerolls all the others then eventually all the players will migrate to that fleet and it will lead to the death of individual PVP fleets .
An interesting theory to say the least .
(see , I can give "PVP History lessons" too :P)
But that's not really the point of this thread .
My point is this :
Miniature 2 man pre-mades will emerge and they will play "Sword & Shield" .
Now if you've ever played STO's version of "Capture the Flag" the way it was meant to be played , you did hang out at one capture point my your lonesome -- and more often then not one or more enemy player came up and said "hello" .
I'll give you the following tag teams (most of which I've faced ... so I actually know what I'm talking about) , and tell me how you're gonna beat them without a cloaked ship (?) :
D'Kora + Bug/Defiant/ ect.
Scimitar + Scimitar
Scimitar + T'Varo , Bug/Defiant/ ect.
And the list just goes on and on .
Ahh , but this will be a Team Match and you will have your own tag-team on your team -- isn't this AdjuckatorHawk & Mancom's supposition ?
My answer is : they will likely be busy with themselves .
See , just because they'll be a mini-team , their names won't be "USS We're Here 4U" .
Also ... , if this was still Year 1 in STO , the era of the Excelsior , Galaxy , Bop , Negh'var ... -- I might not have such a problem .
Some of those ships were tough , but they were not unbeatable ... even as a tag-team .
Now days ... -- don't make me laugh .
And I will remind you of this one crazy thing : some of you did ask for a pug queue not because you wanted to eliminate pre-mades , but because you wanted newcomers to PVP to not face premades .
You wanted newcomers to stay and have a positive experience in PVP .
THIS is why some of you asked for pug PVP and this is what you're taking away with your selfish "just one friend , what will it hurt ? " mentality .
Private queues ? Ever heard of those ?
A place where you can "bring your buddy" and enjoy "team play" because "this is an MMO" ?
And I'll finish with one more "lesson" from the "no-wars" that STO PVP fleets engage in .
One of the more popular excuses for that is : we can't get 10 ppl from 2 PVP fleets on at the same time .
Well guess what ?
Think you won't have 2 ppl online neither ?
I'm guessing that you will ... , which is why I think this is more about the continued desire to faceroll pugs via tag-teams , and much-much less about "pugs VS premades" or a "better environment for PVP newbies" .
So my conclusion is this :
Most of you are Mormons . Sure , you say you're single , and that 1 wife does not count .
(nothing against real Mormons BTW ... just against ppl who pretend they're single when they're not .)
So thanks for inviting me to your "open relationship" , but ... not really interested .
Have fun stomping those newbies !
Since those days we've seen the emergence of the PVP fleets and the influx of the "gamers" .
DOB, GoD, 182nd, 7th Core, Lore, Sto'vo'kor, .Section 31. - all these PVP fleets were in their prime prior to S1.2 / S2 and pretty much all of them are gone now or a mere shadow of their former glory. PVP fleets are not a new invention, they have been there from the very beginning; only the names and players have changed.
DOB, GoD, 182nd, 7th Core, Lore, Sto'vo'kor, .Section 31. - all these PVP fleets were in their prime prior to S1.2 / S2 and pretty much all of them are gone now or a mere shadow of their former glory. PVP fleets are not a new invention, they have been there from the very beginning; only the names and players have changed.
PvP fleets is what's kept pvp going imo, they're the only thing resembling teamwork in pvp today...it's sad, but it's cryptics fault.
DOB, GoD, 182nd, 7th Core, Lore, Sto'vo'kor, .Section 31. - all these PVP fleets were in their prime prior to S1.2 / S2 and pretty much all of them are gone now or a mere shadow of their former glory. PVP fleets are not a new invention, they have been there from the very beginning; only the names and players have changed.
Are there any serious PvP fleets with anything more than a handful of regulars left in the game?
Ummm ... right .
So how about the thread titled "Need for PUG only PvP queues" -- which can be summed up by response #6 from dontdrunkimshoot : "its once a week isnt it, this thread" .
All that thread is telling me that someone wants a PUG queue. That someone may not represent those you think are the representatives of pvp on this forum. If one person pvps his opions isn't automatically representative of the whole pvp community or its perceived spokespersons.
Miniature 2 man pre-mades will emerge and they will play "Sword & Shield" .
Now if you've ever played STO's version of "Capture the Flag" the way it was meant to be played , you did hang out at one capture point my your lonesome -- and more often then not one or more enemy player came up and said "hello" .
I'll give you the following tag teams (most of which I've faced ... so I actually know what I'm talking about) , and tell me how you're gonna beat them without a cloaked ship (?) :
D'Kora + Bug/Defiant/ ect.
Scimitar + Scimitar
Scimitar + T'Varo , Bug/Defiant/ ect.
And the list just goes on and on .
Ahh , but this will be a Team Match and you will have your own tag-team on your team -- isn't this AdjuckatorHawk & Mancom's supposition ?
My answer is : they will likely be busy with themselves .
See , just because they'll be a mini-team , their names won't be "USS We're Here 4U" .
Yeah, your argument falls flat, because you only see a subset of possible combinations, that are possible in a pug queue and surprisingly all result in your defeat. What if a tag-team of two healboats is on your team or a team of two scimis? They won't likely only fend for themselves, because that would make them incredibly stupid. So why again is there such a double standard for things happening on your team and things happening on the other team? It's not like the queue only works one way. There will always be an imbalance in every queue without a matchmaking system.
I've been in a pug vs a fleet-made where we had 1 competent healboat and we won. Just one ship can make a difference. What i beleive you are not realizing is, that even if you pug the queue, you are still in a team. There are no 1v1s here (at least there shouldn't be), it's a 5v5 arena. CnH is different in that the objectives are spread out. Here you can intercept a single ship and have a duel, but that will just not be the case in the arena because your own death is detrimental to you winning, at least orders of magnitude higher than in CnH.
Are there any serious PvP fleets with anything more than a handful of regulars left in the game?
Raumpatroillie Elyson, Inner Circle, Alpha-Zero are regularly fielding premade teams. Hobos, Division Hispana, Ad-Infinitum, Confederazione Stellare Italia, Evil-Grand-Pa's, Vice Squad etc. can be spotted in the queues.
Sadly the absense of Sad Pandas, TRH, TSI is noticable however.
PvP fleets is what's kept pvp going imo, they're the only thing resembling teamwork in pvp today...it's sad, but it's cryptics fault.
IMHO, part of what kept it going. PvP generally requires two things, again imho, a casual base and a non-casual base.
You want that casual base for the sheer numbers. Note, I'm not talking about what "casual" has come to mean over the years in STO. I'm talking about folks that enjoy PvP and just want some random pew pew action from time to time.
You want that non-casual base because eventually some of that casual base is going to want more than just some random pew pew action from time to time. It gives them somewhere to go - to take it to the next level.
With a healthy casual base and a healthy casual non-base - you've got a healthy PvP community and a damn better chance at maintaining a healthy PvP game.
But yeah, I'm going to agree with it being Cryptic's fault. In killing off the casual base, they killed off the chance for the non-casual base to maintain numbers. Folks leave - it happens....turnover, etc, etc, etc. Without the numbers being replenished...meh.
Like another thread mentioned...the changes should have been done with F2P and PvP may not have hemorrhaged like it did. With the various revamps they're doing, with some of the changes they're looking at for PvE as well, with the upcoming Expansion 2...might not have the numbers we would have had - but - there might be the opportunity for some growth next year...though, with a Fluidic Poo console and the like - lol - it still looks like the right hand is stabbing at PvP with a rusty spork while the left hand is fumbling around with a band-aid.
IMHO, part of what kept it going. PvP generally requires two things, again imho, a casual base and a non-casual base.
You want that casual base for the sheer numbers. Note, I'm not talking about what "casual" has come to mean over the years in STO. I'm talking about folks that enjoy PvP and just want some random pew pew action from time to time.
You want that non-casual base because eventually some of that casual base is going to want more than just some random pew pew action from time to time. It gives them somewhere to go - to take it to the next level.
With a healthy casual base and a healthy casual non-base - you've got a healthy PvP community and a damn better chance at maintaining a healthy PvP game.
But yeah, I'm going to agree with it being Cryptic's fault. In killing off the casual base, they killed off the chance for the non-casual base to maintain numbers. Folks leave - it happens....turnover, etc, etc, etc. Without the numbers being replenished...meh.
Like another thread mentioned...the changes should have been done with F2P and PvP may not have hemorrhaged like it did. With the various revamps they're doing, with some of the changes they're looking at for PvE as well, with the upcoming Expansion 2...might not have the numbers we would have had - but - there might be the opportunity for some growth next year...though, with a Fluidic Poo console and the like - lol - it still looks like the right hand is stabbing at PvP with a rusty spork while the left hand is fumbling around with a band-aid.
Lol I like that analogy. I honestly think that PvP might be broken beyond repair, the only reason i'm still interested is because I love a challenge. Idk....I just think they should have only added all vs all and removed the others, just all v all and allowed premades. Teamwork helps pvp, and if people are too lazy to get on a team/create their own, they will suffer the consequences. Every free2play game i've ever played has been ruined by whiners, I see STO going down the same path. You give them an inch, they take a mile. Teamwork is OP plz nerf is what all the threads boil down to. *end rant*
The biggest problem for new players coming into PvP is accepting their roles or defining their roles. When you come into PvP as a healer that is what you do not healing with some CC and dmg mixed in. Know your role and know it well and perform it well before branching out to hybridize it. If you are healer and you are in a pug regardless of how stupid your teammates are you heal until the final score screen shows up. This goes for damage dealers and CCers. THe most frustrating thing for me as an escort pilot is when I get into matches the 3 cruisers on my team kirk use all the heals on their self and then ***** in zone I am not doing enough damage, then I get focused and blow all my heals/escapes/etc and they haven't passed one heal. Healers I know its frustrating with escort pilots since most never stay in range b ut if they are in the middle of the battle staying close and are being focused it behooves you to keep themin the fight long enough to do what they do. This really goes to all classes.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
Healers I know its frustrating with escort pilots since most never stay in range...
I made a special keybind for this that announces, "Player X is out of HEAL RANGE!" Unfortunately, it is usually followed by Player X sploding into stardust as they continue to try out-run their doom.
I made a special keybind for this that announces, "Player X is out of HEAL RANGE!" Unfortunately, it is usually followed by Player X sploding into stardust as they continue to try out-run their doom.
Funny how that happens most cases, escort in trouble runs, the escorts that have that escort in trouble runs after now 2 v 1, star dust.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
Comments
Which one of those is the 5 man premade?
Was it the one with 2 Pandas, Riyott who at the time was solely in NoP and 2 Guys from the DPS MIRRION-BIRRION-K Channels?
Do a little homework before you post things.
Yeah I as going to ask that since I no comprende German.
The PvP vets in this game could be thrown together on a team and probably give most premades a god run.
The one good thing from a FFA is SS or AMS would pretty useless
This man understands the Jorf guide.
Ummm ... right .
So how about the thread titled "Need for PUG only PvP queues" -- which can be summed up by response #6 from dontdrunkimshoot : "its once a week isnt it, this thread" .
Thanks but I was there too .
I may have only pugged , and I may not remember the players names , but the Year 1 : Excelsior VS BOP fests are still in my memory ... -- and I consider those good times ... (despite the slight OP-ness of the Excelsior , thanks to Gecko) .
But as I said , good times ... , no matter if I was in an Excelsior or a BOP (a Bop with a hilarious rainbow setup , with a quantum in the back) .
But that was a long-long time ago ... .
Since those days we've seen the emergence of the PVP fleets and the influx of the "gamers" .
And not only have I witnessed the stomping of pugs by premades , but also the long-long list of excuses that these PVP fleets have used to not face off with each other ... -- one of the interesting theories I've read about this here , was that if one PVP fleet continuously facerolls all the others then eventually all the players will migrate to that fleet and it will lead to the death of individual PVP fleets .
An interesting theory to say the least .
(see , I can give "PVP History lessons" too :P)
But that's not really the point of this thread .
My point is this :
Miniature 2 man pre-mades will emerge and they will play "Sword & Shield" .
Now if you've ever played STO's version of "Capture the Flag" the way it was meant to be played , you did hang out at one capture point my your lonesome -- and more often then not one or more enemy player came up and said "hello" .
I'll give you the following tag teams (most of which I've faced ... so I actually know what I'm talking about) , and tell me how you're gonna beat them without a cloaked ship (?) :
D'Kora + Bug/Defiant/ ect.
Scimitar + Scimitar
Scimitar + T'Varo , Bug/Defiant/ ect.
And the list just goes on and on .
Ahh , but this will be a Team Match and you will have your own tag-team on your team -- isn't this AdjuckatorHawk & Mancom's supposition ?
My answer is : they will likely be busy with themselves .
See , just because they'll be a mini-team , their names won't be "USS We're Here 4U" .
Also ... , if this was still Year 1 in STO , the era of the Excelsior , Galaxy , Bop , Negh'var ... -- I might not have such a problem .
Some of those ships were tough , but they were not unbeatable ... even as a tag-team .
Now days ... -- don't make me laugh .
And I will remind you of this one crazy thing : some of you did ask for a pug queue not because you wanted to eliminate pre-mades , but because you wanted newcomers to PVP to not face premades .
You wanted newcomers to stay and have a positive experience in PVP .
THIS is why some of you asked for pug PVP and this is what you're taking away with your selfish "just one friend , what will it hurt ? " mentality .
Private queues ? Ever heard of those ?
A place where you can "bring your buddy" and enjoy "team play" because "this is an MMO" ?
And I'll finish with one more "lesson" from the "no-wars" that STO PVP fleets engage in .
One of the more popular excuses for that is : we can't get 10 ppl from 2 PVP fleets on at the same time .
Well guess what ?
Think you won't have 2 ppl online neither ?
I'm guessing that you will ... , which is why I think this is more about the continued desire to faceroll pugs via tag-teams , and much-much less about "pugs VS premades" or a "better environment for PVP newbies" .
So my conclusion is this :
Most of you are Mormons . Sure , you say you're single , and that 1 wife does not count .
(nothing against real Mormons BTW ... just against ppl who pretend they're single when they're not .)
So thanks for inviting me to your "open relationship" , but ... not really interested .
Have fun stomping those newbies !
Are there any serious PvP fleets with anything more than a handful of regulars left in the game?
All that thread is telling me that someone wants a PUG queue. That someone may not represent those you think are the representatives of pvp on this forum. If one person pvps his opions isn't automatically representative of the whole pvp community or its perceived spokespersons.
Yeah, your argument falls flat, because you only see a subset of possible combinations, that are possible in a pug queue and surprisingly all result in your defeat. What if a tag-team of two healboats is on your team or a team of two scimis? They won't likely only fend for themselves, because that would make them incredibly stupid. So why again is there such a double standard for things happening on your team and things happening on the other team? It's not like the queue only works one way. There will always be an imbalance in every queue without a matchmaking system.
I've been in a pug vs a fleet-made where we had 1 competent healboat and we won. Just one ship can make a difference. What i beleive you are not realizing is, that even if you pug the queue, you are still in a team. There are no 1v1s here (at least there shouldn't be), it's a 5v5 arena. CnH is different in that the objectives are spread out. Here you can intercept a single ship and have a duel, but that will just not be the case in the arena because your own death is detrimental to you winning, at least orders of magnitude higher than in CnH.
Raumpatroillie Elyson, Inner Circle, Alpha-Zero are regularly fielding premade teams. Hobos, Division Hispana, Ad-Infinitum, Confederazione Stellare Italia, Evil-Grand-Pa's, Vice Squad etc. can be spotted in the queues.
Sadly the absense of Sad Pandas, TRH, TSI is noticable however.
IMHO, part of what kept it going. PvP generally requires two things, again imho, a casual base and a non-casual base.
You want that casual base for the sheer numbers. Note, I'm not talking about what "casual" has come to mean over the years in STO. I'm talking about folks that enjoy PvP and just want some random pew pew action from time to time.
You want that non-casual base because eventually some of that casual base is going to want more than just some random pew pew action from time to time. It gives them somewhere to go - to take it to the next level.
With a healthy casual base and a healthy casual non-base - you've got a healthy PvP community and a damn better chance at maintaining a healthy PvP game.
But yeah, I'm going to agree with it being Cryptic's fault. In killing off the casual base, they killed off the chance for the non-casual base to maintain numbers. Folks leave - it happens....turnover, etc, etc, etc. Without the numbers being replenished...meh.
Like another thread mentioned...the changes should have been done with F2P and PvP may not have hemorrhaged like it did. With the various revamps they're doing, with some of the changes they're looking at for PvE as well, with the upcoming Expansion 2...might not have the numbers we would have had - but - there might be the opportunity for some growth next year...though, with a Fluidic Poo console and the like - lol - it still looks like the right hand is stabbing at PvP with a rusty spork while the left hand is fumbling around with a band-aid.
I made a special keybind for this that announces, "Player X is out of HEAL RANGE!" Unfortunately, it is usually followed by Player X sploding into stardust as they continue to try out-run their doom.
@DevolvedOne
Funny how that happens most cases, escort in trouble runs, the escorts that have that escort in trouble runs after now 2 v 1, star dust.