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Just wanted to drop by and say thanks to the PVP forum ...
aelfwin1
Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
I was starting to looking forward to the Pug queue in Season 9 .
Then this little "jem" came through .
Let's just say that the desire to be tag-teamed by a Duo-Premade (one guys running full shields and/or occasionally switching to weapons , and the other running weapons & engines) -- well since I've faced that in the past , let's just say it took my budding enthusiasm and sent it packing .
So I wanted to come here ... where I occasionally lurk ... and say thanks to the ppl who made this happen .
I hope you (and your one special friend) will have fun .
At the expense of someone else .
Thanks again ... .
Then this little "jem" came through .
Originally Posted by coldsnapped
PvP:
Space Arena, the Unteamed Queue, is now Space Arena, Solo or Duo Queue.
Captains may take one friend with them into this queue.
Let's just say that the desire to be tag-teamed by a Duo-Premade (one guys running full shields and/or occasionally switching to weapons , and the other running weapons & engines) -- well since I've faced that in the past , let's just say it took my budding enthusiasm and sent it packing .
So I wanted to come here ... where I occasionally lurk ... and say thanks to the ppl who made this happen .
I hope you (and your one special friend) will have fun .
At the expense of someone else .
Thanks again ... .
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Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
RCK
Seriously? You are crying because in 50% of the cases when there is a pre-teamed duo in the match you will have it on your side?
2 teamed players wont make any sort of difference if the average skill level on both teams is semi even, just 1 bad player can sink a team easily. if the average skill on each team is not even, ask yourself, is that due to me? should i accuse people of 2 man exploiting as if thats a thing to compensate, or actually try to git gud? seriously :rolleyes:
Lol. Sounds about right.
But really, if it bothers you that much that 2 friends want to pew together, go get a friend and fight against them. Or if you get lucky, you'll wind up with them, and then you'll have a team of 4 that you already know are good and know how to work together, and not just Kirk it up and lose the match.
However, it sounds more like you are just against teamwork in general. Guess what? It's a part of the game. Teamwork is OP. Always will be. Sorry 'bout it.
DDIS, I have to admit...sometimes I read your posts and get a very good laugh when you tell it like it is. Your logical humor is OP, plz nerf. :P
You know what ?
If this was your average in-game trash talk , I'd encourage you to get some confidence , or better yet , have some confidence in your pug team .
But for me , it's not .
See Drunk , you at least have my respect for all that you've done for the PVP community .
Which is why I will try reason :
I can totally understand the desire to "play with a friend" .
But just as I understand that , I also totally think that it goes 100% against the intent of the solo/pug queue .
This is no longer solo and it's no longer a pug .
A pug is where 5 random guys put an 'X' in an STF channel ... where you either pray that they know what RML means or that they know there the lines are -- depending in the map .
What you're really asking for is this :
With the powerful synergies that a player alone has x 2 players , you will have players that will be unbeatable .
Is that the reason for the creation of the solo/pug queue ?
Because if it is , then I must have missed something ... as I thought this was made to stop the face roll stomping ... which can be done by Alphas from the T'Varo alone (and considering some player builds , not just the T'Varo ...) .
So what's the next step ?
Ah yes ... , you're also asking for "Matchmaking system ..." .
But are you REALLY asking for a "Matchmaking system ..." , or a "Matchmaking system" + 1 friend ?
See , because there will be those "lonely" PVP players who "ask" for that too .
And since the Devs don't likely play PVP and they rely on you to give them good advice , it will be done ... even if it AGAIN CONTRADICTS 100% the reason for a "Matchmaking system" .
... oh and one last thing ... . I have at least two builds that even a T'Varo Alpha has only about 50% chance of dismantling .
So that "LRN 2 PLY" bit does not apply to me , and frankly it sounds cheap .
I simply don't PVP anymore because I am smart enough to know when to save myself some aggravation .
This "solo/pug" queue had piqued my interest .
Thanks to you and everyone else here who preluded and applauded this post , that interest has faded .
So I made this thread to thank you ... , as one former PVP-er to others .
'Cuz nobody is 100% right 100% of the time .
Not even the "PVP crowd" .
ppl really complains about everything, ya?
2 friends are OP, plz nerf.
Your welcome. You should also pay better attention while you are lurking... cause.
1) we never asked for a solo que
2) many of us did ask for a no team que that involved intelligent matchmaking systems. (with out that its a empty gesture just like shuttle ques where) I'll even call it now this que is going to pretty much fail. It won't do what Cryptic is hoping... because to many new and low PvP XP players are going to continue to have terrible games. Not because some evil premade is there... or some terrible evil 2 man. It will happen because there is a core of 50-100 PvP players that do it constantly enough to challenge each other. Everyone else is fodder (I don't mean that in an offensive way)... its just facts. Its why they HAD to implement a proper match making system... with out it way to many matches are going to start with one side loaded with 2-3 PvP vets that don't have to be teamed before hand to work together.
Let me retell a little bit of STO PvP history.
Back in the very early days of STO.... with in a month or so there was a core of Klingon PvP players. For the first year of STO there was nothing but nerf the Klink calls... even though there was nothing to nerf.
They where in almost every case much better then there fed counterparts. The reason was simple, early on the only way to level Klingon toons was PvP. They where pretty much promoted as the PvP faction... and anyone that came to STO with PvP experience from other games rolled Klingons as soon as they had level 10 feds (I think that was the requirement to create a klink). Some of those players like MiniMax even deleted there feds after. lol
What happened was pretty much every PUG match was dominated by the Klingons. 1) because the players had more general PvP XP... but what started to happen and what the real reason was. Those same 50-100 or so hard core Klingons started to see each other in random matches... and they knew exactly how to play WITH each other. I remember hitting the ques and ending up with people like MiniMax, Ayatani, Dork, Bobtheyak, CptnDuck.... it was pretty much every match, you would know 2-3 of the people on your team. You might not be on a vent or ts server with them, really though that didn't matter. After countless matches with the same players... you knew Santa was going to charge the spawn and flip on his FBP... you knew GrippleChew was going to delta you the second you decloaked... you knew if you where at 20% and hurting evasiving toward bobtheyak you would catch a heal or two.
The exact same thing is going to happen to this PUG que. Anytime 2-3 of those core players end up on a team with each other they are going to know what to do to help each other out... they won't need a vent to act like a premade... or at least more of one then the other guys.
Have you ever played a full healer that got paired with players who had essentially no dps? It's not a fun experience. Introducing matchmaking or allowing pre-teamed pairs makes it possible to create situations where every healer has at least one player on their team that is worth healing and can dish out some damage.
A healer protecting a damage dealer is not the most evil premade thing in the world, it's how it should be in every match whether it's a pug or not. But this only works if every side has both healers and damage dealers. And a totally random pug queue does exactly nothing to promote this scenario.
And "having confidence in my pug team"? I have been in too many matches were my randomly assigned team mates were a greater obstacle than the opposing team.
So,in other words you want that PVP becomes PVE.
A place for people to be Captain Kirks,Lone wolfs,kill enemy players easily so then can feel like a Hero.
Sorry to dissapoint you,but PVP was always and will always be a TEAM-BASED.
And like others here said,it's a MMO and not Single player game.
MMO is all about playing with other people and their friends.
2 players from same fleet in pug queves can be beaten if opposition team is working as a team.
Problem rises is that team in season 9 will be made of PVErs who have Egos,since they got used to Rolfstomping Borg Cubes,etc..and when True challenge comes(PVP),their Ego shuts down and they start complaining.
Whats next that they will complain about.
Will they next time complain that PVPers shouldn't be allowed to queve Arenas,because it is ruining their Ego too much.
That they should be stricted to only Premade queves and leave Pug arenas for PVErs.
I'm more and more seeing that it is PVErs that complain,not PVPers.
But people are so fixated on evil pre-teamed groups that they can't see that any one-sidedness in the distribution of veteran PVPers that is bound to happen on a regular basis in a totally random queue will lead to severely imbalanced matches. Just recently I got into a (4v4) queue PVP match where my side had a panda, two hobos and myself, and all of us had queued up individually. Of course that match wasn't anywhere close to being balanced.
A lot of people think that anythink else than "kirking" constitutes cheating. Heck, I know of a fleet that has declared healing as cheating.
Indubitably.
The stranger has something to tell you.
I called it once teams were banished they would work on "buddy teaming" since my friends are better than their friends.
For what its worth, making it a "duo" is just some BS Cryptic came up with on its own and is something a lot of the PvP crowd despises. I don't understand the point of pug queues that aren't actually for pugs!
As to why Cryptic would seem so intent on taking a #$%& on its new creation? We can only speculate they are truly clueless or they really want to get rid of PvP. I prefer to think they're just well meaning yet clueless bumbling buffons at this point. I mean come on, when your "experiments" have people wondering if you're finally angling to get rid of PvP for good, you have to know something is wrong.
Because going out of your way to annihilate friends playing together and teamwork is basically the antithesis of online gaming.
Could you imagine if they tried to institute these draconian measures in PvE?
They can only get away with this because after years of neglect and abuse the PvP community is too small for any negative developments to impact the overall course of the game.
I can see where there could be an advantage... but the workaround is to drag your buddy or fleetmate into the queue with you so you've got somebody watching your back. If most of the people end up doing that -- and they may learn to do that -- then it becomes a non-issue. Shouldn't be -that- hard to find one person on your Friend list who won't mind jumping in with you?
Yes, I agree that the queues need intelligent matchmaking. Both PvP and PvE, even. But any matching system needs to be smart enough to throw the rules out the window when the queues aren't popping because there is no optimum match available.
It doesn't have to be a perfect match. A system that gives you a balanced PUG match half of the time would be an improvement.
But the Duo thing has the disadvantage of making it even more complicated to try to deliver matchmaking. Maybe even kills matchmaking as an option. If the game can't break up the team to deliver a balanced match, then there isn't much point.
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I am not programmer by any stretch of the imagination. But I do find this comment alarming. If a match making mechanic was in place it would look at the duo as two separate players and stack their team accordingly. I mean most match making has a variable that says a spread of X is "even" of course this all depends on the metrics. If two guys teamed are going kill match making then really what is the point. If two good players teamed cannot be properly balanced with 3 bad players and the other team is stacked with 5 decent players, it really comes down to what is considered balanced. Example and it will be rudimentary, if players are ranked 1 to 10 ten being great and 1 being bad, the most optimal matches would be 1 to 1, 2 great teams of 5 being 50 to 50 keeping the 1 to 1 ratio. We all know most matches will never be that way especially with pugs. So if two guys team and que and collectively they are 15 and they get teamed with 3 below average pugs ranging from 2-4 and team 1 is collective 24, for it to be balanced the other team would need to be "equal" lets say 5 average pugs that are considered 5 so the battle is a team equaling 24 vs a team equaling 25. Again this is all very basic to show concept.
I agree. Because in match making two really good players could be teamed with 3 really bad players. Of course all that is based on population and accurate metrics. More population more "balanced" matches.
Queue up a four man - Stomp most groups, lose to groups that farm the pug, get farmed by true premades, queue dodgers, hax, sploits, hate
Queue up a three man (most common way I personally have queued for the last month) - Get accused of hacking, beat most pugmades, lose to premades
Queue up a two man - Beat most pugs, beat some pugmades, get owned by premades
Queue up alone - normally destroy everything that isnt prearranged and/or coordinated in some way, lose to pretty much anything that is
Taylor goes to Kerrat - Klingons quit
This is a PvPer's perspective on the various group queueing, OP. Notice there is no silver bullet, every configuration has its flaws.
You really think a one or two man pug queue is going to matter? All it really does is benefit players like me that are actually good at the small group game or solo game. Many of my personal builds are designed to survive for extended periods of non coordinated abuse.
Wait til a group of five solo pugs runs into myself or someone even better than me, there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Thus the crying continues. It literally never ends.
Whats hilarious is when the shoe is on the other foot and someone like OP is in an outnumbering situation with say 5 people on 2, people like OP are most likely to be the biggest trash talkers in zone about their elite skills and gleefully swarm the smaller group mercilessly. All that says to me is by default I am 2.5x the player you are. I can deal with that.
In any case, this new pug queue system is just another pander to the LCD model being forced down our throats. Ive never personally supported the idea in general, and feel the duo option is completely stupid from go anyway. Sci Wells + Tac Bug anyone?
Stop blaming the PvPers for your shortcomings.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus