The major distinction between the Valdore console and the Borg set bonus is that the Borg set bonus only triggers when players need healing, while the Valdore console overheals all the time.
Lemme just stop you there, Adjucator, and correct you. I've been using the Borg set pretty consistently since the 2nd anniversary or so. In all that time, I cannot think of a single instance when the 2-pc Borg proc didn't activate when I had 80% or MORE health. Its absence is conspicuous when I need it. It is literally always overhealing me. So, your major distinction... isn't one.
overheal or not, there is literally no heal in the whole game as strong as that is in the hands of a high dps ship.
its one of the main reasons the scimitar is so overpowered, man.
See this is why I worry whenever cryptic says they're fixed a bug and if that makes something too weak, they'll buff it. Because when they're under the impression that things like the Valdore console are perfectly fine, I begin to wonder if we're playing the same game. :eek: I think he may have missed the point you were trying to make. Is the valdore heal anything like the borg set bonus heal? No. One is proactive while the other is reactive. Does that mean the Valdore console is not overpowered? Hell. no.
The issue with the Valdore console is that it benefits from an extremely fortuitous synergy between dps to healing. That's to say the more dps you pile on, the more healing you get. That is what makes it so good, players are throwing out all their defensive abilities to the way side and replacing them with pure smackdown power to the point where they inadvertently end up with better healing for it. It tilts the mechanics of the entire game to the wayside because it encourages the practice of doubling down on dps at the expense of everything else. It also makes low capacity, high regen shields irrelevant because the console pigeon holes you into using a high capacity shield to last you long enough to weather out the gap between the procs. It has most probably an even greater impact on gameplay than the borg 2 piece.
overheal or not, there is literally no heal in the whole game as strong as that is in the hands of a high dps ship.
its one of the main reasons the scimitar is so overpowered, man.
and they can't balance or adjust the game around what maybe 20% of the playbase can do in a min/max situation, for all the scimitars pulling 40k+dps there are probably 8 other ships that are lucky to break into the 5-10k dps.
It's the only heal that I scale down before I put it into leaderboard rating calculations because it is so huge. It's almost 20% of the entire shield healing in the game, and that includes all the fed/kdf players who cannot even equip that console. (See http://hilbertguide.com/leaderboard/datamining.php?percentages=1)
and that is a pvp issue not about the other 80% of the playbase that have not figured out how to min/max their DPS or even care they just wanna have fun in a Star Trek themed game.
Lets take Borg shields, they are terrible ... so terrible in fact you guys changed the set, didnt change anything as people still looked at them and rather use something else as shield even with the Shield Regen being forced into running with the Borg Shield.
When a set is bad enough people rather run 2/3 them there is a problem, considering the Borg set doesnt cost peanuts you are in the same situation as the Romulan/Reman/Tholian sets ... of course I know what comes next "STF, Elite Content, Etc ..." I read that before ...
Of course ... the question is why are you changing those now? and we know the answer to that dont we?
Plus we talking about a 2/3 set that costs Dilitium and marks vs a 3/4 set that can be acquired by running a mission 3 times, its only fair to ask a STF set that requires running Elite Dificult content to acquire it is more effective that one set that just requires running one mission 3 times.
Borg shields on Romulan/Dyson sci ship
They work fine for me I personally like the high regen rate it gives, the set piece bonus and fancy visuals are nice too. Its not purely optimized for Dps but its a blast to fly in ESTFS and Mirror atm.
Let's see.... Mk XII VR set.... Deflector changed from +3.5% Stealth Value to +30 Starship Stealth. The big chance is the 3 set power. The Old 3 piece set power is now incorporated into the Shields itself:
10% chance hit by Directed Energy attacks grain +5% Maximum Shield Capacity for 30 sec (stacks up to 10)
Reduces Disruptor Damage to Shields by 20%
3 Piece set bonus is now:
Capacitance Transfer
Target's Self
3 min recharge
Reduces Damage to Shields by 29.3% for 15 seconds.
Enhances all Energy Weapons to do the following once per firing cycle
-106 All Shields to foe
+106 All Shields to self
(Improved by Starship Flow Capacitors)
Note: The character I'm looking at has 0 Flow Capacitors skill. So that's the base value).
So basically. They kept everything plus we get a new 3 Piece set ability and -20% Disruptor Damage to Shield.
Calling the Borg Set nerf a bugfix is in the end just semantics, effectively it will be worse. Took a while to catch that "bug", it became part of the expected performance of the set.
If this nerf is a good thing given its extreme power or not is another debate. I personally think it is a good thing as it bugs me that the Borg Engine and the set in general so outperform later sets.
The Valdore console: As some already pointed out, I fear it gets seriously underestimated in its power. Firing at something is the norm not the exception. Fighting the CE just firing straight at it parked at ~ 5km a Scimitar will instantly regain full shields after getting hit by the CE blast.
Regarding set balance, I still wonder that the Borg set retained its edge for that long. The new sets like Dyson and Solanae are much better balanced against each other and in their individual parts.
What it really looks like is another steel toed boot to the groin of every defense build that didn't shoot back, but only supported their team.
Now everyone will have to go to the new sets they will eventually release in season 9.5 maybe if it comes out that soon. and will have to do lots of dps to stay alive.
The way I figure they are thinking is its broken if they anyone ever in the game ever can use it to survive a BO 3 from ACC3 DBB, coz they spent the last year trying to and couldn't.
Took quite some time to 'fix' this borg set 'bug'. After so long it might have been the better solution to keep it at it is/was. Consistency with the expected and established performance should be more important than putting forward a nerf just for the sake of enforcing a supposed behaviour.
And about the Valdore console: I'd say the console is fine as it is. Usually the additional heals aren't required in PvE, thus a lot of consoles -basically any that improves dps- could take a higher priority than the overall redundant Valdore console. PvP this might be different; however lacking any balance to begin with, it's not like this console would make any difference.
The Valdore console also creates gameplay by encouraging the user to get to close range to maximize their damage output and heals, but also maximize their damage intake from the close-range target. The Borg set bonus has no such gameplay - it just heals you when your health gets low. Once again, comparing these two totally disparate game mechanics isn't really useful in a vacuum - the strength of one has no bearing on the strength of another. The Borg set has to stand up against other Engine/Deflector/Shield sets, while the Valdore console has to stand up against other things that can be slotted into console slots.
I have to say I'm disappointed by this response.
Its like you're speaking a different language.
Why on earth would you ever NEED to promote gameplay in such a way? Are players NOT attacking their targets? Are they not already trying to get as much DPS as they can? Do warbirds and romulan captains don't ALREADY have a bunch of dps advantages over everyone else? Its like you want to encourage people to breathe, which surprisingly enough, is not actually necessary!
As far the 2 piece borg set and the valdore console having different placement.... I don't think you;re weighting things correctly. Console slots are LESS valuable than engine, deflector, and shield slots. You can only have ONE engine, deflector and shield, but you can have up to 10 consoles! But lets compare the Valdore console to another faction console, does the Impulse Capacitance Cell compare to the valdore console? How about the Enhanced Plasma Manifold?
Interestingly, the bug was found when one of us tried to update the tooltips for the set to make them accurate. As soon as the tooltips were telling the truth, they clearly exposed the bug for us to find and fix.
Everyone dislikes change, and as a player, I don't blame you for the feelings you're describing. Anytime you expect one thing from a game and it delivers another, you get a sense of cognitive dissonance that you then need to resolve, either by re-calibrating your expectations or by avoiding the dissonance-triggering event. Neither way is fun, and I sympathize with that. Ultimately, though, in the long run of game maintenance, fixing bugs is necessary to keep the game around for a long time, and that involves triggering that dissonance each time. We just have to hope that the magnitude of the dissonance is low enough to tolerate in the short-term, so that your long-term enjoyment of the game can be greater over time due to the resultant increase in quality.
Hey dude...I just wanted to say I appreciate your thoughtful and genuine responses. It's nice to see someone openly exchange with players again. Thanks.
PS - can you PLZ bump the plasma resist on the Borg Shield to %20 to at least give it parity with the other sets? It makes no sense that it's 15% STIL....
The Valdore console also creates gameplay by encouraging the user to get to close range to maximize their damage output and heals, but also maximize their damage intake from the close-range target. The Borg set bonus has no such gameplay - it just heals you when your health gets low. Once again, comparing these two totally disparate game mechanics isn't really useful in a vacuum - the strength of one has no bearing on the strength of another. The Borg set has to stand up against other Engine/Deflector/Shield sets, while the Valdore console has to stand up against other things that can be slotted into console slots.
OK, I follow what you're saying.
Chalk and cheese, apples and oranges, one of these things is different.
And, in many aspects, you're wholly correct.
However, there are points of comparison between the two things.
It comes down, not to what the mechanism does per se, but to what the player does or doesn't do with it.
What player behaviour is either encouraged or discouraged.
Both of them have a strong focus on survivability, thus in that respect we can compare them fairly.
The Borg set is a fine set and known for enabling a player to survive longer in a fight.
The Valdore is, pretty much, an I-win console that enables high DPS boats to be invincible more or less while firing........and no high DPS boat spends a lot of time not firing.
You point as its range, but closing to range is already encouraged by game emchanics that apply generally.
Damage drop off means we already know that closing to range is how to maximise DPS.
Thus, suggesting that the Valdore is all about getting to range is a tad redundant.
Finally, the most important point of comparison is nothing to do with game mechanics, but all to do with where you, as devs, put your attention.
Why this change which, as admitted, will inconvenience a relatively large number of people, and why not the Valdore console? Or PvP? Or any number of worthy candidates for dev time.
If he could name those other fabled things, it would be awesome.
I'm not sure he's actually saying there is a console that does compare, merely that it should be compared with such rather than with DESC set bonuses. Which is hard not to agree with - cause it is the apples and oranges thing.
So basically, he just wants folks to list every other single console in the game to show that they do not compare to the Valdore console. :P
Everyone dislikes change, and as a player, I don't blame you for the feelings you're describing. Anytime you expect one thing from a game and it delivers another, you get a sense of cognitive dissonance that you then need to resolve, either by re-calibrating your expectations or by avoiding the dissonance-triggering event.
Yeah, no. We're not some sort of children, unable to cope with change. The trruth of the matter is, that when something is (very) public knowledge, and left unattended for several years, it then becomes entirely reasonable to expect that the way it functions was intended (or, subsidiarily, that the devs were okay with how it turned out); yes, even when it's good.
It's about being able to rely on the performance of certain items, so that you're confident a (sizeable) investment in the gear is warranted. And so I spent the last half year upgading all my old Mk XI Borg sets to Mk XII as a result. To see them yanked out from under me, frankly, undermines my trust in buying/upgrading newer sets.
If Cryptic wants to rely on customers spending money (and yes, Dilithium <==> Zen), at some point those customers need to be able to rely on Cryptic too.
The Valdore console also creates gameplay by encouraging the user to get to close range to maximize their damage output and heals, but also maximize their damage intake from the close-range target.
The 2-piece Borg set also creates gameplay by encouraging the user to get to close range to maximize their damage output and heals, but also maximize their damage intake from the close-range target.
Seriously, adjudicatorhawk, I understand there are marketing reasons for not touching Zen items; but your defense of the Valdore console is very weak. In fact, I couldn't suppress a small smile when reading it.
It's about being able to rely on the performance of certain items, so that you're confident a (sizeable) investment in the gear is warranted. And so I spent the last half year upgading all my old Mk XI Borg sets to Mk XII as a result. To see them yanked out from under me, frankly, undermines my trust in buying/upgrading newer sets.
We all know everything in the game is subject to change. It is made clear to us in every dev blog on the forums and in the terms of service. Yet, we buy items despite fully knowing that a change in the item's effectiveness could happen in the future. The bugged version of the Borg two piece bonus was overpowered. I was in Ker'rat yesterday testing it with another player on Tribble. Even that version is highly effective on all Starships. It just won't be healing for double the starship's health anymore.
I can't help but look at this "nerfing" as a direct swipe at F2P players who, through ingenuity and grinding, have pieced together builds that allow them to challenge - and in many cases, dominate - Cryptic's bread-and-butter P2W players.
After all, we can't have a bunch of F2P beam-scorts tanking gates in PvE and popping P2W scimis in PvP. Not when those precious P2W players have spent their hard earned cash on "I-Win" builds that are supposed to make them invincible.
So out of curiosity, does this work out to around a 40% reduction? Basically what was proposed back on Jan 6th, 2012? I saw one person post their numbers somewhere, and it appeared to be 60% of what it was...but I hadn't seen anybody else post numbers. Maybe somebody did in this thread, but I didn't look at this until after it was moved...
overheal or not, there is literally no heal in the whole game as strong as that is in the hands of a high dps ship.
its one of the main reasons the scimitar is so overpowered, man.
Makes me wish they would bring the bortasqu' in line with the scimitar lol.
Even if someone per say hated KDF with a passion they could plainly see and even the ody to an extent too that the scimitar consoles and powers you can put on it like this make ships like the bortasqu' and its set look like an under powered shuttle compared to the scimitar rofl.
I stopped using the borg 2 piece set for this reason. I ran this in escort and I was doing a 1million healing in a 15 minute PvP in an escort. It may be coincidence but it seemed to trigger with damage and EPtS :eek:
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
I've never used the borg set in PvP because, apart form the heal, the other bonuses it provided didn't fit my build. That's why I've stuck with the MK XII Jem'Hadar set, although the Undine shield might tempt me to switch one part of the set.
I've never used the borg set in PvP because, apart form the heal, the other bonuses it provided didn't fit my build. That's why I've stuck with the MK XII Jem'Hadar set, although the Undine shield might tempt me to switch one part of the set.
The MK XII Jemmy set isn't too bad! i use it on one of my toons for a LOLaron build and it works well. However currently I only do a 2pc for the bonus Polaron damage. 2pc+ fleet shield for Mirror event,swap to 2pc+ MACO Deflector for normal shizzle.
The forums burned for 40 days and 40 nights the last time they tried to address the 2pc set bonus...before the F2P launch.
yeah but the game was way different back then. There's way more options for self heals now than there has ever been, and if people actually use the mirror hakeev doff there will be a lot more cross healing.
yeah but the game was way different back then. There's way more options for self heals now than there has ever been, and if people actually use the mirror hakeev doff there will be a lot more cross healing.
There's all sorts of options...but...then they'd have to do something. It's much easier for folks to slot it and forget it, let something else play the game for them. C'mon, they don't have a hand free to work any abilities, they need that hand to pat themselves on the back as mobs grab their ankles waiting to be farmed...
yeah but the game was way different back then. There's way more options for self heals now than there has ever been, and if people actually use the mirror hakeev doff there will be a lot more cross healing.
^^ Not specifically aimed at you in person, but this here is precisely why the PvP community should have *no* say in anything whatsoever.
Not kidding. All y'all are playing a different game. PvE is, and always will be, an individualistic endeavour for casual players. Period. 'Casual' means people don't fly in premade teams; 'casual' means there is no coordination (or, if there is, it's extremely minimal, and can never be relied on being a given). That's the crux of the whole story.
And that is why the PvP community should have *no* say in anything whatsoever. It's not that I wouldn't want some more coordination in PvE, but it's not going to happen. Ever. The casual aspect just inherently precludes that from ever taking place.
And that's why it's so annoying to see droves of PvP-ers come in, elitistly lecturing the PvE-er, how lazy they are, and need crutches, haha. And I can never get thru their thick skulls: that the way the game is set up, Cryptic has no choice, really, but to ensure the casual player is, and always can be, entirely self-reliant. PvE is designed in such a manner, that it almost looks like you need others, but it will never happen for realz. Imagine Mirror Event, and truly *only* cruisers could Initiate the Power Transfer: the ensuing chaos and rage would be enormous, simply because it's a PUG, and you can't rely on premade roles and coordination.
So, to whomever it may concern, stop trying to force your PvP-playstyle on the PvE community. You are a small minority (what? 1% of the playersbase). I have the greatest respect for your collective knowledge; but, to put it politely, GTFOML!
/me, initializes her Tachyon Beam, and tries to force the PvP community back to their own realm.
^^ Not specifically aimed at you in person, but this here is precisely why the PvP community should have *no* say in anything whatsoever.
...
So, to whomever it may concern, stop trying to force your PvP-playstyle on the PvE community. You are a small minority (what? 1% of the playersbase). I have the greatest respect for your collective knowledge; but, to put it politely, GTFOML!
/me, initializes her Tachyon Beam, and tries to force the PvP community back to their own realm.
Like I said upthread...the PvP community serves a great purpose for helping figure out bugs, but because it's an area of responsibility of a few particlar devs, THEIR opinions about changes hold a disproportionate amount of influence. And that sucks.
^^ Not specifically aimed at you in person, but this here is precisely why the PvP community should have *no* say in anything whatsoever.
Not kidding. All y'all are playing a different game. PvE is, and always will be, an individualistic endeavour for casual players. Period. 'Casual' means people don't fly in premade teams; 'casual' means there is no coordination (or, if there is, it's extremely minimal, and can never be relied on being a given). That's the crux of the whole story.
Casual doesn't mean there is no coordination. Single player means there's no coordination. STO's not a single player game. One can play without doing any group content and thus play it as a single player game, but the moment one hits up a single queue for group content - they need to put that single player mentality aside...because it's group content.
That kind of mentality is why things can fall apart in things that would stand no chance of falling apart if folks paid the slightest little bit of attention to there being other players there...that they're in a group and it's no longer single player content.
Which has nothing to do with PvP or not...because the same issue exists both in PvE and in PvP. If folks go into group content with a single player mentality...that's on the player. They've got nobody else to blame but themselves, while all of those that realized that they've gone into group content can quite easily point to the player(s) that didn't and do an epic /facepalm.
And that is why the PvP community should have *no* say in anything whatsoever. It's not that I wouldn't want some more coordination in PvE, but it's not going to happen. Ever. The casual aspect just inherently precludes that from ever taking place.
Selfishness would preclude that - not being casual. Almost everything in STO is casual and it works just fine with casual PUGs working together to get things done.
What's the difference between a Mirror group that's twiddling their thumbs for 3+ minutes and a group that's watched the Station get obliterated for the third+ time? Both are PUGs...neither's a premade...both are casual...neither's hardcore...one group just realized that they're a group instead of thinking that it's single player content. They try to coordinate in the least...and wham, bam, damn - twiddle thumb time.
You take two PUGs...two casual PUGs over in PvP...the one that at least tries to work together is likely to have the better chance to win, no? It's group content - they play it as a group...they're likely to do better than the single players trying to do group content.
Has nothing to do with PvP or PvE...it's that this is a MMO. Sure, it can be played as a single player game...if one avoids group content.
And that's why it's so annoying to see droves of PvP-ers come in, elitistly lecturing the PvE-er, how lazy they are, and need crutches, haha. And I can never get thru their thick skulls: that the way the game is set up, Cryptic has no choice, really, but to ensure the casual player is, and always can be, entirely self-reliant. PvE is designed in such a manner, that it almost looks like you need others, but it will never happen for realz. Imagine Mirror Event, and truly *only* cruisers could Initiate the Power Transfer: the ensuing chaos and rage would be enormous, simply because it's a PUG, and you can't rely on premade roles and coordination.
Cryptic changed the team abilities to encourage less selfish play from their players. Cryptic's testing the Mirror event and the Undine stuff with interaction to encourage less selfish play from their players. Cryptic realizes that STO's a MMO...they always have...hence why there's been group content which usually has multiple objectives that need to be accomplished in some particular order and possibly even at the same time. Nothing has changed there...the folks that work as a group get it done - the folks that are stuck in a selfish single player mode...those groups tend to run into issues.
So, to whomever it may concern, stop trying to force your PvP-playstyle on the PvE community. You are a small minority (what? 1% of the playersbase). I have the greatest respect for your collective knowledge; but, to put it politely, GTFOML!
It's not a PvP-playstyle in the least.
You queue for a 5-man thing, duh - there's 4 other people there...maybe they're meant to work together?
If somebody doesn't want to work with somebody else...then they shouldn't queue...
/me, initializes her Tachyon Beam, and tries to force the PvP community back to their own realm.
In case you missed it, it has nothing to do with PvP... if folks want to enjoy a single player experience in STO, it's there waiting for them - but it's not waiting for them in any group content.
Comments
Lemme just stop you there, Adjucator, and correct you. I've been using the Borg set pretty consistently since the 2nd anniversary or so. In all that time, I cannot think of a single instance when the 2-pc Borg proc didn't activate when I had 80% or MORE health. Its absence is conspicuous when I need it. It is literally always overhealing me. So, your major distinction... isn't one.
See this is why I worry whenever cryptic says they're fixed a bug and if that makes something too weak, they'll buff it. Because when they're under the impression that things like the Valdore console are perfectly fine, I begin to wonder if we're playing the same game. :eek: I think he may have missed the point you were trying to make. Is the valdore heal anything like the borg set bonus heal? No. One is proactive while the other is reactive. Does that mean the Valdore console is not overpowered? Hell. no.
The issue with the Valdore console is that it benefits from an extremely fortuitous synergy between dps to healing. That's to say the more dps you pile on, the more healing you get. That is what makes it so good, players are throwing out all their defensive abilities to the way side and replacing them with pure smackdown power to the point where they inadvertently end up with better healing for it. It tilts the mechanics of the entire game to the wayside because it encourages the practice of doubling down on dps at the expense of everything else. It also makes low capacity, high regen shields irrelevant because the console pigeon holes you into using a high capacity shield to last you long enough to weather out the gap between the procs. It has most probably an even greater impact on gameplay than the borg 2 piece.
and they can't balance or adjust the game around what maybe 20% of the playbase can do in a min/max situation, for all the scimitars pulling 40k+dps there are probably 8 other ships that are lucky to break into the 5-10k dps.
and that is a pvp issue not about the other 80% of the playbase that have not figured out how to min/max their DPS or even care they just wanna have fun in a Star Trek themed game.
Borg shields on Romulan/Dyson sci ship
They work fine for me I personally like the high regen rate it gives, the set piece bonus and fancy visuals are nice too. Its not purely optimized for Dps but its a blast to fly in ESTFS and Mirror atm.
interesting note:
If this nerf is a good thing given its extreme power or not is another debate. I personally think it is a good thing as it bugs me that the Borg Engine and the set in general so outperform later sets.
The Valdore console: As some already pointed out, I fear it gets seriously underestimated in its power. Firing at something is the norm not the exception. Fighting the CE just firing straight at it parked at ~ 5km a Scimitar will instantly regain full shields after getting hit by the CE blast.
Regarding set balance, I still wonder that the Borg set retained its edge for that long. The new sets like Dyson and Solanae are much better balanced against each other and in their individual parts.
Now everyone will have to go to the new sets they will eventually release in season 9.5 maybe if it comes out that soon. and will have to do lots of dps to stay alive.
The way I figure they are thinking is its broken if they anyone ever in the game ever can use it to survive a BO 3 from ACC3 DBB, coz they spent the last year trying to and couldn't.
And about the Valdore console: I'd say the console is fine as it is. Usually the additional heals aren't required in PvE, thus a lot of consoles -basically any that improves dps- could take a higher priority than the overall redundant Valdore console. PvP this might be different; however lacking any balance to begin with, it's not like this console would make any difference.
I have to say I'm disappointed by this response.
Its like you're speaking a different language.
Why on earth would you ever NEED to promote gameplay in such a way? Are players NOT attacking their targets? Are they not already trying to get as much DPS as they can? Do warbirds and romulan captains don't ALREADY have a bunch of dps advantages over everyone else? Its like you want to encourage people to breathe, which surprisingly enough, is not actually necessary!
As far the 2 piece borg set and the valdore console having different placement.... I don't think you;re weighting things correctly. Console slots are LESS valuable than engine, deflector, and shield slots. You can only have ONE engine, deflector and shield, but you can have up to 10 consoles! But lets compare the Valdore console to another faction console, does the Impulse Capacitance Cell compare to the valdore console? How about the Enhanced Plasma Manifold?
Hey dude...I just wanted to say I appreciate your thoughtful and genuine responses. It's nice to see someone openly exchange with players again. Thanks.
PS - can you PLZ bump the plasma resist on the Borg Shield to %20 to at least give it parity with the other sets? It makes no sense that it's 15% STIL....
OK, I follow what you're saying.
Chalk and cheese, apples and oranges, one of these things is different.
And, in many aspects, you're wholly correct.
However, there are points of comparison between the two things.
It comes down, not to what the mechanism does per se, but to what the player does or doesn't do with it.
What player behaviour is either encouraged or discouraged.
Both of them have a strong focus on survivability, thus in that respect we can compare them fairly.
The Borg set is a fine set and known for enabling a player to survive longer in a fight.
The Valdore is, pretty much, an I-win console that enables high DPS boats to be invincible more or less while firing........and no high DPS boat spends a lot of time not firing.
You point as its range, but closing to range is already encouraged by game emchanics that apply generally.
Damage drop off means we already know that closing to range is how to maximise DPS.
Thus, suggesting that the Valdore is all about getting to range is a tad redundant.
Finally, the most important point of comparison is nothing to do with game mechanics, but all to do with where you, as devs, put your attention.
Why this change which, as admitted, will inconvenience a relatively large number of people, and why not the Valdore console? Or PvP? Or any number of worthy candidates for dev time.
If he could name those other fabled things, it would be awesome.
I'm not sure he's actually saying there is a console that does compare, merely that it should be compared with such rather than with DESC set bonuses. Which is hard not to agree with - cause it is the apples and oranges thing.
So basically, he just wants folks to list every other single console in the game to show that they do not compare to the Valdore console. :P
Yeah, no. We're not some sort of children, unable to cope with change. The trruth of the matter is, that when something is (very) public knowledge, and left unattended for several years, it then becomes entirely reasonable to expect that the way it functions was intended (or, subsidiarily, that the devs were okay with how it turned out); yes, even when it's good.
It's about being able to rely on the performance of certain items, so that you're confident a (sizeable) investment in the gear is warranted. And so I spent the last half year upgading all my old Mk XI Borg sets to Mk XII as a result. To see them yanked out from under me, frankly, undermines my trust in buying/upgrading newer sets.
If Cryptic wants to rely on customers spending money (and yes, Dilithium <==> Zen), at some point those customers need to be able to rely on Cryptic too.
The 2-piece Borg set also creates gameplay by encouraging the user to get to close range to maximize their damage output and heals, but also maximize their damage intake from the close-range target.
Seriously, adjudicatorhawk, I understand there are marketing reasons for not touching Zen items; but your defense of the Valdore console is very weak. In fact, I couldn't suppress a small smile when reading it.
We all know everything in the game is subject to change. It is made clear to us in every dev blog on the forums and in the terms of service. Yet, we buy items despite fully knowing that a change in the item's effectiveness could happen in the future. The bugged version of the Borg two piece bonus was overpowered. I was in Ker'rat yesterday testing it with another player on Tribble. Even that version is highly effective on all Starships. It just won't be healing for double the starship's health anymore.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
After all, we can't have a bunch of F2P beam-scorts tanking gates in PvE and popping P2W scimis in PvP. Not when those precious P2W players have spent their hard earned cash on "I-Win" builds that are supposed to make them invincible.
RCK
Makes me wish they would bring the bortasqu' in line with the scimitar lol.
Even if someone per say hated KDF with a passion they could plainly see and even the ody to an extent too that the scimitar consoles and powers you can put on it like this make ships like the bortasqu' and its set look like an under powered shuttle compared to the scimitar rofl.
Yes...the Borg set will now be the BLACK sheep of the sets, and only have 3/5ths of it's previous heal ability...
but the 3/5 is still a good heal. I've been flying around on tribble and it's still healing my ship better than any ship power.
The MK XII Jemmy set isn't too bad! i use it on one of my toons for a LOLaron build and it works well. However currently I only do a 2pc for the bonus Polaron damage. 2pc+ fleet shield for Mirror event,swap to 2pc+ MACO Deflector for normal shizzle.
If a set's 2% proc is the reason eveyone uses it, there's probably summat up with it.
I'm just surprised it took the devs so long to clock it to be honest.
The forums burned for 40 days and 40 nights the last time they tried to address the 2pc set bonus...before the F2P launch.
yeah but the game was way different back then. There's way more options for self heals now than there has ever been, and if people actually use the mirror hakeev doff there will be a lot more cross healing.
There's all sorts of options...but...then they'd have to do something. It's much easier for folks to slot it and forget it, let something else play the game for them. C'mon, they don't have a hand free to work any abilities, they need that hand to pat themselves on the back as mobs grab their ankles waiting to be farmed...
^^ Not specifically aimed at you in person, but this here is precisely why the PvP community should have *no* say in anything whatsoever.
Not kidding. All y'all are playing a different game. PvE is, and always will be, an individualistic endeavour for casual players. Period. 'Casual' means people don't fly in premade teams; 'casual' means there is no coordination (or, if there is, it's extremely minimal, and can never be relied on being a given). That's the crux of the whole story.
And that is why the PvP community should have *no* say in anything whatsoever. It's not that I wouldn't want some more coordination in PvE, but it's not going to happen. Ever. The casual aspect just inherently precludes that from ever taking place.
And that's why it's so annoying to see droves of PvP-ers come in, elitistly lecturing the PvE-er, how lazy they are, and need crutches, haha. And I can never get thru their thick skulls: that the way the game is set up, Cryptic has no choice, really, but to ensure the casual player is, and always can be, entirely self-reliant. PvE is designed in such a manner, that it almost looks like you need others, but it will never happen for realz. Imagine Mirror Event, and truly *only* cruisers could Initiate the Power Transfer: the ensuing chaos and rage would be enormous, simply because it's a PUG, and you can't rely on premade roles and coordination.
So, to whomever it may concern, stop trying to force your PvP-playstyle on the PvE community. You are a small minority (what? 1% of the playersbase). I have the greatest respect for your collective knowledge; but, to put it politely, GTFOML!
/me, initializes her Tachyon Beam, and tries to force the PvP community back to their own realm.
Like I said upthread...the PvP community serves a great purpose for helping figure out bugs, but because it's an area of responsibility of a few particlar devs, THEIR opinions about changes hold a disproportionate amount of influence. And that sucks.
Casual doesn't mean there is no coordination. Single player means there's no coordination. STO's not a single player game. One can play without doing any group content and thus play it as a single player game, but the moment one hits up a single queue for group content - they need to put that single player mentality aside...because it's group content.
That kind of mentality is why things can fall apart in things that would stand no chance of falling apart if folks paid the slightest little bit of attention to there being other players there...that they're in a group and it's no longer single player content.
Which has nothing to do with PvP or not...because the same issue exists both in PvE and in PvP. If folks go into group content with a single player mentality...that's on the player. They've got nobody else to blame but themselves, while all of those that realized that they've gone into group content can quite easily point to the player(s) that didn't and do an epic /facepalm.
Selfishness would preclude that - not being casual. Almost everything in STO is casual and it works just fine with casual PUGs working together to get things done.
What's the difference between a Mirror group that's twiddling their thumbs for 3+ minutes and a group that's watched the Station get obliterated for the third+ time? Both are PUGs...neither's a premade...both are casual...neither's hardcore...one group just realized that they're a group instead of thinking that it's single player content. They try to coordinate in the least...and wham, bam, damn - twiddle thumb time.
You take two PUGs...two casual PUGs over in PvP...the one that at least tries to work together is likely to have the better chance to win, no? It's group content - they play it as a group...they're likely to do better than the single players trying to do group content.
Has nothing to do with PvP or PvE...it's that this is a MMO. Sure, it can be played as a single player game...if one avoids group content.
Cryptic changed the team abilities to encourage less selfish play from their players. Cryptic's testing the Mirror event and the Undine stuff with interaction to encourage less selfish play from their players. Cryptic realizes that STO's a MMO...they always have...hence why there's been group content which usually has multiple objectives that need to be accomplished in some particular order and possibly even at the same time. Nothing has changed there...the folks that work as a group get it done - the folks that are stuck in a selfish single player mode...those groups tend to run into issues.
It's not a PvP-playstyle in the least.
You queue for a 5-man thing, duh - there's 4 other people there...maybe they're meant to work together?
If somebody doesn't want to work with somebody else...then they shouldn't queue...
In case you missed it, it has nothing to do with PvP... if folks want to enjoy a single player experience in STO, it's there waiting for them - but it's not waiting for them in any group content.