Your're not real familiar with Star Trek, then, I take it?
Given that the technologies in Star Trek have, in general, either predicted technology in the future or come from contemporary scientific theory, I fail to understand how you can consider Star Trek to be close to fantasy.
Let's take a look at some of the predictive technology, shall we?
What you're referring to is inspiration being taken from sci-fantasy. For every example you provide there (of the inevitable results of miniaturization, really, nothing specific to Star Trek) there's probably at least 5 to 10 instances of Star Trek babbling complete nonsense at best and outright wrong science at worst in order to justify or explain something.
Wow what an interesting whirlwind way to field yet another complaint about festival gimmicks.
I opened video options, turned debris to 0 hit apply and continued on with what I was doing, whenever someone shoots off a party popper the balloons and confetti disappear as soon as they leave the barrel of the gun. Disco balls don't bother me, I think they are a riot, although a Gorn dancing does look strangely disturbing. I just can not for the life of me see what the big problem is.
How can people possibly sit at a computer to play this game with sphincter muscles so tight?
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
What you're referring to is inspiration being taken from sci-fantasy. For every example you provide there (of the inevitable results of miniaturization, really, nothing specific to Star Trek) there's probably at least 5 to 10 instances of Star Trek babbling complete nonsense at best and outright wrong science at worst in order to justify or explain something.
Actually, I'm referring to science fiction predicting certain aspects of life and society (Jules Verne, anyone?) based on science, not fantasy. Obviously, the following comparison was going to come up.
Star Wars is fantasy. It relies on mysticism, magical abilities, impossible items and so on. There is no science which can explain a lightsabre and make it real, or even remotely plausible. But it looks great on screen and everyone wants to have one (heck, I have several myself). And there's no reason one can't like both of these franchises (I never understood the rivalry there), but comparing the two is like comparing dragons to fighter jets. One is space fantasy, one is science fiction.
Star Trek does not have weapons like the lightsabre because Star Trek is science fiction (Cryptic's attempt to capitalize on the launch of TOR by adding lightsabre-like bat'leths and lirpas notwithstanding). Again, the equipment, tools and other items of everyday Star Trek life for the people in its universe have a basis in science. Adding imagination to something for the purpose of story doesn't make it fantasy.
You're right, however, that Star Trek often uses its technobabble of things that may well be unlikely or impossible, but it's lack of needing to rely on magic, fantastical creatures, mysticism, and anything else Lucas raided from both eastern and western religious canons, means that it does not at all rely on fantasy in any way.
And even when the technobabble starts to run away, somewhere in it - no matter how minscule, is a scientific theory or actual science that is happening contemporarily in the real world.
Star Trek is not space fantasy any more than Star Wars is science fiction. But hey, let's enjoy both and make the game fit better into the Trek universe anyway.
Well, speaking as a fan of Ray Bradbury and some soft sci-fi, I think D'Angelo has gone a bit further than that. When most of the devs indicate that they like sci-fi, it's generally a preference for geek sci-fi as opposed to nerd sci-fi. They like sci-fi CULTURE. Kirk doing ridiculous/fabulous things. Dinosaurs in space. Lasers!
D'Angelo has said he has a general distaste for Ray Bradbury. He likes tech and idea focused sci-fi. Is not a fan of overly visually flashy stuff or emotional/irrational/zany stuff. I also think he indicated he's not personally big on the original series (too colorful/wacky) and is generally a fan of the dryer aspects of TNG.
Zero, Geko, Taco, and Stahl seem to fall on the geeky side of sci-fi as a culture of affiliations. Cosplay. Filk. Socialization. Emotion. FUN COMES THROUGH FREEDOM TO EXPRESS!
D'Angelo is more on the nerdy side. Building computers. He has a comment about how he didn't think of himself as a Trekkie when Cryptic started working on STO and he was at a design meeting about STO having thousands of captains and went into a nerd rage about that because the loss of a few dozen ships was devestating at Wolf 359. This is sci-fi as rigid and well engineered thought experiments and activities. Bug fixes! Quality assurance! Deft code! MATH! FUN IS A WELL ENGINEERED RULESET!
It's a different philosophy. I like Stahl. I think it's time for a more left brained managerial philosophy though and I consistently get the impression that this is what D'Angelo brings to STO and that this factors into his desire for a better ESD, which is already in the works.
If all you say is true, then this D'Angelo guy is (partially) what we've needed for a long time.
First its a multiplayer game not a singleplayer stop using social devices i don't like game. Second there is plenty social about esd with or without party stuff just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not. Third party stuff is fun as hell and makes in-game parties a lot more fun whereas roleplay is not social at all it's just text bs so why not just go sit in a featureless room if you can't play with others. There is a real need for balloons and disco stuff on all space stations as they make them more fun.
Most that happens is one guy uses his party whatever then a bunch of others come and join in and have a fun time for a while except for like 5 minutes when antisocial trolls scream at them for having fun but luckily they last for 5 minutes thats it. Where again is the social roleplay whatever in that?
The esd chat is always lively and full of people. Only reason 99% of the people complain about it is because they have control issues and want to force people to play how they like and be done with it. Maybe you stand around screaming at people to stop having fun but that's weird. I don't really see the reason for it.
ESD is junk, man. Conversation revolves around poorly-informed politics and a bunch of underage people waxing philosophical. Occasionally it devolves further into gorn "jokes" and why JJ Trek sucks.
That being said, maybe the problem would lessen if there were more social zones to do things in. Personally, I love hanging out in Quark's Bar and DS9 in general so I can lurk the RP-ers. I can't see their chat, but I do enjoy watching them do stuff. All we need now is to make DS9 transwarp-able easily, and add some reason to go there, like unique, better than normal doff missions that pay out better, or something. Or launching your STFs from DS9 results in 15 bonus marks right off the bat, I dunno.
Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
You know, if ESD is going to be spending time in the art pipeline again, they need to refit all of the chairs for click interaction. How many years has it been since they introduced that tech at the Academy? It's about time the major social zones were refit with the same tech, and if ESD will be in the dev spotlight this is the perfect time to do it.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
I want to be able to fly INTO and around the interior of ESD's docking area with my ship. I once made it past the docking bay doors during a lag spike at full impulse. It was a glorious 0.3 seconds!
I like that idea! It would bring back that old ESD asset and make it used in-game again. The explanation being that Q thought it would be funny to swap Mars Space Dock and ESD. When folks simply continued as if nothing was different, Q got bored and set things back to the way they were(what we have now with the STIII ESD).
Have the First Contact Day map and event accessible via turbolift from the Mars Spacedock map. From Earth Orbit, one could warp directly to Mars, and from Mars orbit, one could Warp to Earth. And of course, both maps would be accessible from Sirius Sector Space. All of the zany Q events could occur on one of the maps, while the other is low-key for those who are not amused by the theatrics. Two Sol system social zones, but with entirely different personalities for the two disparate groups of players.
How DARE you suggest a peaceful and sensible compromise?!?!?
No we MUST have only ONE type of gameplay, and no more!
Nothing breaks the tension better than a tankard of warnog - except maybe a good brawl...
But I like ESD as it is... I'd rather see DS9 improved with the functions it is missing (like boff trainers) so that it can be a full featured hub like ESD, and while we're at it why not have a shuttle to DS9 from ESD and the other main hubs like starbases have shuttles to the embassy and spire? Turn DS9 into a proper 'all factions' hub connected to all of the faction specific ones.
Instead of changing the current ESD, why not create a new starbase at Utopia Planitia Mars and add the old ESD over there... make it a lvl50 hangout spot with all the normal bells and whistles of a full starbase. When inside, the exteriors could show the Utopia Planitia fleet yards and the lovely red planet below.
i dunno whats wrong with just one long corridor, windows looking out into space on one side on the other side all the stores and a transporter pad in the middle of that, at the end of one hallway through some doors leads to a large room specifically for shipyard stuff with ships in the background, on the opposite side of the hallway is Quinn's office.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I'd like to see the layout of ESD changed and have things added to the interior.
ESD has two levels one of which is unused. I'd take the second deck and make that a civilian deck which would have things like Club 47, sick bay, observation room (where you can see the ships), stores, and holosuites. The current level would contain areas for Starfleet personnel only like skill training, ship management, Holodecks for training, the admiral's office, administrative offices, weapon supply compartments, and an officers lounge.
While we're looking at starbases maybe one glaring omission from DS9 could be fixed, add the medical bay to the station.
"Live Long and Prosper but always carry a fully charged phaser, just in case!". Arrr'ow
ESD doesn't need a revamp and any resources used for it's revamp should be put to use elsewhere like fixing the Galaxy X's off center lance (which seriously bothers my OCD) or properly scaling the Galaxy bridge so it's not comically huge.
ESD doesn't need a revamp and any resources used for it's revamp should be put to use elsewhere like fixing the Galaxy X's off center lance (which seriously bothers my OCD) or properly scaling the Galaxy bridge so it's not comically huge.
But they obviously don't listen to the players. With all the problems in this game - some major and some very minor - they think people complained about ESD's layout? That's what they want to work on? It's fine and in my opinion a lot of fun. I spend a lot of time being a ninja and jumping to places once thought off limits.
One thing i'de like to see in the revamp is the the origional series federation dreadnaught cruiser added into the federation ship lineup.
I've seen it twice in the origional series but only twice briefly, it looked like a rougha and ready ship.
One thing i'de like to see in the revamp is the the origional series federation dreadnaught cruiser added into the federation ship lineup.
I've seen it twice in the origional series but only twice briefly, it looked like a rougha and ready ship.
It only ever appeared as a bearly visable scematic in TWOK (I think), never in TOS.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
if ya gonna revamp it... please bring back the OLD ESD... she was big, she had a 24 century feel and the interiors were big and roomy..
the interior of ESD has not changed much even in the last revamp only biggest change was the bank/exchange area. I believe that the revamp of ground ESD will be even bigger than the old one and I look forward to it.
What about a game engine revamp ? LOL
won't happen they would have to kill the game off to do a engine overhuaul
ESD doesn't need a revamp and any resources used for it's revamp should be put to use elsewhere like fixing the Galaxy X's off center lance (which seriously bothers my OCD) or properly scaling the Galaxy bridge so it's not comically huge.
Yes it does. ESD is the first place new players see outside of the tutorial. First impressions are important.
Yes it does. ESD is the first place new players see outside of the tutorial. First impressions are important.
The first impression they'll get is that ESD is the troll central of the gaming industry regardless what Cryptic does with ESD. If they're trolls they'll stick around and if they're sane they'll run away as soon as they can and never return to ESD.
Besides, I fail to see what's wrong with ESD?
Comments
What you're referring to is inspiration being taken from sci-fantasy. For every example you provide there (of the inevitable results of miniaturization, really, nothing specific to Star Trek) there's probably at least 5 to 10 instances of Star Trek babbling complete nonsense at best and outright wrong science at worst in order to justify or explain something.
I opened video options, turned debris to 0 hit apply and continued on with what I was doing, whenever someone shoots off a party popper the balloons and confetti disappear as soon as they leave the barrel of the gun. Disco balls don't bother me, I think they are a riot, although a Gorn dancing does look strangely disturbing. I just can not for the life of me see what the big problem is.
How can people possibly sit at a computer to play this game with sphincter muscles so tight?
Actually, I'm referring to science fiction predicting certain aspects of life and society (Jules Verne, anyone?) based on science, not fantasy. Obviously, the following comparison was going to come up.
Star Wars is fantasy. It relies on mysticism, magical abilities, impossible items and so on. There is no science which can explain a lightsabre and make it real, or even remotely plausible. But it looks great on screen and everyone wants to have one (heck, I have several myself). And there's no reason one can't like both of these franchises (I never understood the rivalry there), but comparing the two is like comparing dragons to fighter jets. One is space fantasy, one is science fiction.
Star Trek does not have weapons like the lightsabre because Star Trek is science fiction (Cryptic's attempt to capitalize on the launch of TOR by adding lightsabre-like bat'leths and lirpas notwithstanding). Again, the equipment, tools and other items of everyday Star Trek life for the people in its universe have a basis in science. Adding imagination to something for the purpose of story doesn't make it fantasy.
You're right, however, that Star Trek often uses its technobabble of things that may well be unlikely or impossible, but it's lack of needing to rely on magic, fantastical creatures, mysticism, and anything else Lucas raided from both eastern and western religious canons, means that it does not at all rely on fantasy in any way.
And even when the technobabble starts to run away, somewhere in it - no matter how minscule, is a scientific theory or actual science that is happening contemporarily in the real world.
Star Trek is not space fantasy any more than Star Wars is science fiction. But hey, let's enjoy both and make the game fit better into the Trek universe anyway.
If all you say is true, then this D'Angelo guy is (partially) what we've needed for a long time.
ESD is junk, man. Conversation revolves around poorly-informed politics and a bunch of underage people waxing philosophical. Occasionally it devolves further into gorn "jokes" and why JJ Trek sucks.
That being said, maybe the problem would lessen if there were more social zones to do things in. Personally, I love hanging out in Quark's Bar and DS9 in general so I can lurk the RP-ers. I can't see their chat, but I do enjoy watching them do stuff. All we need now is to make DS9 transwarp-able easily, and add some reason to go there, like unique, better than normal doff missions that pay out better, or something. Or launching your STFs from DS9 results in 15 bonus marks right off the bat, I dunno.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
Joined January 2009
tutorial revamp
qonos revamp
stf revamp
it has already been done numberous times, dont spend more useless resources on it...
How DARE you suggest a peaceful and sensible compromise?!?!?
No we MUST have only ONE type of gameplay, and no more!
Love this idea, please.. MAKE IT SO!!!
Next: The Revamp revamp. Coming soon(TM) on a holodeck server near you!
revamp is OP, plz nerf.
i dunno whats wrong with just one long corridor, windows looking out into space on one side on the other side all the stores and a transporter pad in the middle of that, at the end of one hallway through some doors leads to a large room specifically for shipyard stuff with ships in the background, on the opposite side of the hallway is Quinn's office.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
ESD has two levels one of which is unused. I'd take the second deck and make that a civilian deck which would have things like Club 47, sick bay, observation room (where you can see the ships), stores, and holosuites. The current level would contain areas for Starfleet personnel only like skill training, ship management, Holodecks for training, the admiral's office, administrative offices, weapon supply compartments, and an officers lounge.
While we're looking at starbases maybe one glaring omission from DS9 could be fixed, add the medical bay to the station.
Co-Leader of Serenity's Grasp
That's what I said as well!
But they obviously don't listen to the players. With all the problems in this game - some major and some very minor - they think people complained about ESD's layout? That's what they want to work on? It's fine and in my opinion a lot of fun. I spend a lot of time being a ninja and jumping to places once thought off limits.
I've seen it twice in the origional series but only twice briefly, it looked like a rougha and ready ship.
It only ever appeared as a bearly visable scematic in TWOK (I think), never in TOS.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Yeah, especially if your character happens to be a Caitian!
The current ESD is big and roomy, and all of our avatars are tiny children playing as the adults are off dying.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
the interior of ESD has not changed much even in the last revamp only biggest change was the bank/exchange area. I believe that the revamp of ground ESD will be even bigger than the old one and I look forward to it.
won't happen they would have to kill the game off to do a engine overhuaul
wow you remember that, It did feel bigger.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=590121
Yes it does. ESD is the first place new players see outside of the tutorial. First impressions are important.
The first impression they'll get is that ESD is the troll central of the gaming industry regardless what Cryptic does with ESD. If they're trolls they'll stick around and if they're sane they'll run away as soon as they can and never return to ESD.
Besides, I fail to see what's wrong with ESD?