I meant using it with 3 purple photonic doffs also, I assumed that was a given when using PO3. With the 3 doffs, 2 pc MACO and elite deflector you still can't keep teams at global cooldown. Then after PO3 wheres off you have a 30 sec window or more before its up again. That build won't take advantage of the changes as much as a build like mine.
thats your exclusive opinion ^^ i say, there is no need for doubled skills and RSP as "must have" for a healer build....
So, please tell me, what are you doing, after you have spend all your heals, the enemy is switching and targetting another of your Mates? What have you now, to help him out of this situation?
Oh, right, you have nothing to help him...... 1 scramble can make a difference here, continuesly scrambling the main Damage-Dealer of the opposite team, prevents your Team from getting Damage....
there is NO NEED, to spam the whole Match every single Heal on Global Cooldown (we are not speaking of 2 Minutes Matches).....
And your Build isn´t "more tanky" than mine....... If the Attacker knows you have a RSP, he is waiting for it, nuke it away, and then hitting you ......
so, give me ONE Reason, to give up Utility just to throw out HE1 or ET2 at Global Cooldown (which isn´t needed at a whole match, cause there are always gaps between damage spikes)......
or show me links of your recluse build matches with better overall HPS (to yourself and to others)
Ya target swapping has been a staple of high end pvp for a good while now. It does work now... however I think lately people have been just running more Vape instead.
I could be wrong but I am thinking that this change is going to once again favor the All cannon escorts the "super bug" builds that are able to continue to put out the hurt all the time with very little gaps.
Myself I am thinking a team with one Hybrid vape. (a cloaker that can stick around for 15-20s at least)... with a traditional escort "bug style cannons". Cloaker decloaks on target team pushes hard and gets the other side to spike hard enough to save and hopefully a bit extra. Doing that should make the next target even easier to get then before. (unless people just don't change there builds much). I have a feeling that after a week or two of playing around with the changes many people will go back to there standard builds and give up on the idea of lots of teams... accept for the few dedicated healers that may try to work in the extra spike heal. (they are going to have to play smart to make it work though imo)
I was thinking this is a nerf to my bug ship because I won't be running ET or ST on it, I still like my resists and buffs from using EPTS, EPTE, doffed A2D, HE, and TSS, hard to decide if its worth giving any of that up for a team skill.
If things do go like you say it is I will like the changes because I like playing my tacs as DHC bug or as a BOP alpha striker that can brawl a little longer then most. Just worried things won't turn out that way.
I was thinking this is a nerf to my bug ship because I won't be running ET or ST on it, I still like my resists and buffs from using EPTS, EPTE, doffed A2D, HE, and TSS, hard to decide if its worth giving any of that up for a team skill.
If things do go like you say it is I will like the changes because I like playing my tacs as DHC bug or as a BOP alpha striker that can brawl a little longer then most. Just worried things won't turn out that way.
ya I don't claim to always get it right... I could be completely wrong. I guess we will find out soon.
I am hoping I'm right... I can't really see escorts being able to take advantage of this change. I can't really see most science ships being able to either... Perhaps the pallisade and wells, I am thinking people that try it though will be underwhelmed. the A2B dmg cruisers, yes they will get lots more clears... but I think the cost will be high with the loss of resists on sci team or giving up something like RSP just won't make sense. Only real winners are the pure healers... and I don't see this change really making them super strong like some think... they where already unkillable themselves, I think this just gives them the option to spike heal a bit more. With the current Vaper meta we are in I don't think thats so bad really.
Ya we will see... perhaps in a few days I will have to post and eat some crow. lol
Maybe this is due to my inexperience being part of premade team (well I did fight them but I've never been truly part of a premade), but I just don't see how that is true. I think this is where our opinions diverge. Spiky heals to counter spiky vapes. It just became that much harder to kill.
There is a trade off for running the spike heals in this case. The way I see it is like this. If a couple people on a team have used there boff slots to add second teams... they are in fact making there heals more spike heavy. Meaning they can fire them both off instantly. But they can't swap another skill into those spaces... they are on cool down now. So they can't provide the same spike again for 15s... which means they have less heals for the second target. We'll have to see how it pans out... it seems most people don't agree with me. lol
I just think the way Engi and Sci team work they don't offer any resistance at all... so you can't just spike heal someone with an engi team and then hold your other heals... you pretty much have to hit them with both... which means you have nothing to use to heal target 2. With our current setup... I think most healers will clear a nuke with the sci team and then hit with a shield and hull resist skill... which means that other boff slot has something else in it ready to go most of the time for the next target.
Ehh we'll have to see how it shakes out. It likely will have more impact in places like Kerrat and pug groups, I think premades where already pretty well covered for clears though. I don't think any one that does lots of premade matchs can say that isn't the case we have all built to handle teams with 3 science players.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
The biggest "detriment" of this patch looks to me like it'll further mariginalize any ship running COM+LTC Eng (excepting the special case Recluse), making them worlds more inferior healers with COM Eng+LTC Sci, and worlds inferior to 2 Aux2Bat cruisers running COM Eng+LTC Tac. JM2c, tho. It's... definitely gonna be a shakeup, and probably not for the best. Wonder if premades will now be sticking in extra ST's on ships with spare Sci slots for the low-cost clear it'll offer. Don't see ET becoming too prevalent as most ships that aren't cruisers struggle with fitting enough awesome into 2-3 Eng power slots as it is.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
the added heals are not the point here people. there are already plenty of ways to make ship unkillable. what this REALLY does is rip the nuts off all the offensive sci ships out there. Now EVERY ship can heal debuffs for the cost of a simply ensign slot.
You just got VM3 on you? ET1.
Debuffed by a sci? Silly sci, i have ST1.
What is worst is that and those of use who bought the dyson ship, now have less, if not NO use for it. we cant use it as a healer because it doent work well as one AND there are other ships who did it better. A dyson spaming GW in PVP gives laughed at when APO comes on. and debuffers just went out the window. What is left for science ships at all? Healer or death. Devs, you had better have something DAMN GOOD in the works for science ship otherwise there is no point to them unless they are healers.....
why dont you guys LISTEN to the player base MORE and fix what needs fixing and leave the other stuff alone. you guys are making things worst.
I'm not really convinced that people should be freaking out about the potential of ATB Cruisers with 15-20s ETs. An ATB cruiser is an extremely tightly-packed ship built with very specific abilities. So I ask you, ATB cruiser pilots...which of these are you going to surrender for your ET? DEM or RSP? Because those are really your only two options. Are you going to trade your shield tanking for hull tanking? Or are you dropping your damage and nasty hull burn for healing?
I don't see this being a big thing. A few might do it, but they'll be individually less fearsome for it.
Science Team, on the other hand, might push out TSS, but trading a resist buff for a clear and flash heal...bit of a wash.
The Big Winners here? Galaxy-X and Excelsior. The Gal-X has enough Engi slotting to pack ALL of that and an ET to boot, which no longer conflicts...and the Excelsior's third Engi ensign gains an actual use that isn't constantly locked behind TT CDs. The Gal-R gets a slight boost, but eh...Gal-R.
the added heals are not the point here people. there are already plenty of ways to make ship unkillable. what this REALLY does is rip the nuts off all the offensive sci ships out there.
Okay, let's try to take the longer view here. In the short term, this is, obviously, decidedly negative for Science. But let's look at the big picture. For the longest time, Science has been generally crippled and nerfed because of one core factor: Being Scienced is terribly un-entertaining, since the core of Science is that it essentially removes the ability for the other player to play the game. When you die as your ship cannot move, cannot shoot, and cannot otherwise act, this is not very entertaining gameplay. Sure, there were always clears, but for the most part, they were not available, because doing anything but TT left you wide open for instant death from NORMAL ships.
This is no longer true. Now anyone can carry the requisite clears without being completely exposed.
This means that Science can be made Better, as even a PUG can now carry enough clears to get free of it. So in the short run, it's certainly bad for Science, but in the long run, I think we now have that much more headroom to improve science without pushing it into uncounterable cheese. This could be a good thing.
Enough logic. We're all going to die, slain by AtB cruisers with 15 team powers at global. Science is now useless, FoMM should be deleted, and the spacelanes will be clogged with Excelsiors and Sovereigns the likes of which this universe has never seen.
Fah, if the spacelanes were clogged with Excelsiors and Sovereigns, at least it would look like Star Trek! No, the spacelanes are clogged with effing Scimitars and Jem'hadar ships. And I do mean CLOGGED. Just the other day, I blasted off and was immediately stuck and pinned in between 5 Scimitars and couldn't move!
Okay, let's try to take the longer view here. In the short term, this is, obviously, decidedly negative for Science. But let's look at the big picture. For the longest time, Science has been generally crippled and nerfed because of one core factor: Being Scienced is terribly un-entertaining, since the core of Science is that it essentially removes the ability for the other player to play the game. When you die as your ship cannot move, cannot shoot, and cannot otherwise act, this is not very entertaining gameplay. Sure, there were always clears, but for the most part, they were not available, because doing anything but TT left you wide open for instant death from NORMAL ships.
This is no longer true. Now anyone can carry the requisite clears without being completely exposed.
This means that Science can be made Better, as even a PUG can now carry enough clears to get free of it. So in the short run, it's certainly bad for Science, but in the long run, I think we now have that much more headroom to improve science without pushing it into uncounterable cheese. This could be a good thing.
Bro do you even science? I have been running a science ship for the past month, since the dyson ships came out. Throwing debuffs is what that ship is good at. I respeced jyst to run that ship well. NOW...i have to worry about ALL,my efforts to win being cleaned by EVERYONE. If yoyu science you see the problem presented. But for those of us who bought the dyson it worst because in a pvp situation, the ship is a lot less useful and it wasnt all that useful to begin with . Drain and debuffing where all it had and they just gave people the ability to clear ALL that. Taking away the only weapons science has WHILE making a month old ship useless for pvp.
It is an slap in the face to all the science captains AND grabtwistpull to the dyson captains. Pvp will be nothing but vapers and healers. Kerrat will be NUTS, more nuts than normal. If they dont have sothing in the works for science, that profession just in pvp just got benched. EVERYTHING a science ship could use to win because clears were lock behide shared CD, is gone with the shared CD. subsystem targeting is killed by ET. subnuk and debuffed cleared by ST. Drain? ET/ST.
Whats worst is they now have given healers a way to be as broken as a2b users through PO and alpha DF. Pvp will be near unkillable A2b users with unkillable healers cross healing into immortality.... Science ships got nothing because what marion wont heal, ET and ST will.
This is "vape, heal, or die." Offensive science is dead and dyson ship buyers just got the finger.
I wonder what the balance team looks like for STO. From what I've notice, the designers come up with something crazy, then the balance team try to make it balance. STO's idea of balance is different from the players' idea of balance. This is very bad.
EI: A company makes a 2 bladed sword. The buyers says the sword is unstable and off balance. Then company says the sword is balance and perfectly fine... Someone loses an arm training with it. The company still says it's balanced. The buyers constantly says it's not balance. The company ignores them, and adds a 3 blade to the weapon....
See what's going on here? I'm sure some one will figure it out :P
The dress is gold and white. Over 70% people says so. When viewed from a certain screen angle it appears blue and black. The dress displayed on amazon is a blue and black dress, but it's not the same dress in the picture. If you're seeing blue & black you're slightly colored blind. A normal upright screen = white and gold.
Bro do you even science? I have been running a science ship for the past month, since the dyson ships came out. Throwing debuffs is what that ship is good at. I respeced jyst to run that ship well. NOW...i have to worry about ALL,my efforts to win being cleaned by EVERYONE. If yoyu science you see the problem presented. But for those of us who bought the dyson it worst because in a pvp situation, the ship is a lot less useful and it wasnt all that useful to begin with . Drain and debuffing where all it had and they just gave people the ability to clear ALL that. Taking away the only weapons science has WHILE making a month old ship useless for pvp.
It is an slap in the face to all the science captains AND grabtwistpull to the dyson captains. Pvp will be nothing but vapers and healers. Kerrat will be NUTS, more nuts than normal. If they dont have sothing in the works for science, that profession just in pvp just got benched.
I wouldn't over react on this one....
Consider what is effected and what isn't.
Gravity well... NOT cleared by teams... in fact people are more likely to not be running Aux to Damp if they decide to run an engi team they didn't have before.
Tractor beam... not cleared by teams... again countered by Polarized Hull... another skill some people may not run to slot a sci team.
Viral matrix... yes indeed it is cleared by engi team... however 2 things one people are going to be spamming engi team as a heal... so VM them after 5s... VM rarely lasts longer then 10 min on players that are speced even a little bit to counter disables anyway.
Siphen and Tykens... Cleared by hazards so what really changes for these skills... nothing at all that's what.
Tachyon beam - yes cleared by sci team... IF you really are running this in PvP which most people aren't just wait for someome to Sci team first. Then drain them and know they are very likely not running TSS which really does counter the drain.
Sub Nuke... no big deal... it is insta cleared in any half decent PvP match anyway right now... so not much really changes there. The thing with sub nuke is the strip not the debuff... so who cares if they heal it... the point is they now have lost there buffs that is sort of the point.
Sensor scan... yes if there really does end up being lots more sci team this does suck... but just like FOMM got slapped down hard when tac team changed... wait for someone to use there sci team to heal... and then use sensor scan so you get the max out of it.
what even? Ive Seen a dyson ship used as a "Vaper" and extremely well done in fact, to say that ship is useless is just going over the top, I've been playing science captains for 2 years and I didnt buy the dyson why? because it aint all that useful for science imo.
Palisade was far more effective and it still will be with the dubuff style I play, nothing changes for me other than the fact people may carry a sci team to clear a nuke.. ohh dear the end is nie...not.
I'll still be able to do the debuff style i want and not much is gnna change, other than the fact your going to have to really time them well, I.E. actually watch the buffs your target uses, that guys just used ET and ST (yes to be fair a Team mate can cleanse em).
I think this will create super recluses (which we already had) and super spike healing (which in a sense we had with all the resistances). You still have your windows in which to operate.
I hardly think Science is dead, they are still the Top Vaper Chaser's, my sci see's them from about 21Km away lol ( apart from MT coz...wel hes MT).
Sensor scan... yes if there really does end up being lots more sci team this does suck... but just like FOMM got slapped down hard when tac team changed... wait for someone to use there sci team to heal... and then use sensor scan so you get the max out of it.
And unlike FOMM, sensor scan is an AoE - so if you have good opportunity & target placement, you can probably hit a target that doesn't have ST ready.
Viral matrix... yes indeed it is cleared by engi team... however 2 things one people are going to be spamming engi team as a heal... so VM them after 5s... VM rarely lasts longer then 10 min on players that are speced even a little bit to counter disables anyway.
10 mins, eh? lol but yeah its 10s spread out between 4 subsystems isn't too bad with leadership and all.
I actually see VM making a come back with this change. VM is the herpes of science powers when doffed and they never actually fixed it. Remember, they had to revert the change because ET "fixed" cloaking lol. Good times in kerrat with that one lol.
EDIT: also from the look of that thread from Hawk, there's a lot of power changes in the future. I'm kinda excited now
I didn't read through all 30 pages so apologies if someone mentioned this before.
First off, the changes are scarcely announced and a lot of people start crying "Nerf!". Why? Because your uber DPS build suddenly became less uber? If anything should be nerfed it's DPS and not defense skills. The game is broken because anything that can't be insta killed is called OP and everyone cries "Nerf!". I for one hope Cryptic stops listening to the "DPS is all that matters" crowd and brings more balance back into the game.
Second, what exactly are people crying about? All they did was make it possible to chain TT, ET and ST. Those abilities still have their cooldowns they're just not all disabled when using any one of them any more. So while you can chain TT, ET and ST each one of those will still have its default cooldown which means they will still be vulnerable.
Of course with builds like Aux2Bat we'll see some very short cooldowns on those but that is because Aux2Bat is a build that is abusing game mechanics and should be nerfed instead of Team skills. I've said it many times before, Doff stacking should not be possible at all. That will fix half the balance issues in the game.
So if we're gonna cry "Nerf!" then let me cry "Nerf Doff stacking to the point where 3 x Tech Doffs or 3 x AP CD Reduce Boffs is impossible or at the very least have such diminishing returns as to not be viable!"
EDIT: also from the look of that thread from Hawk, there's a lot of power changes in the future. I'm kinda excited now
Ya I think the PvP value of having more spike heal isn't really as nasty as some people seem to think. The spam clears yes it will hurt a few things Scramble Sensors I guess stuff easily cleared by science team. Really though I think after the first few days most people will find they don't really want to change there PvP builds much. There just isn't enough Lt - Lt Cmd slots open to be slotting strong Engi or Sci team heals... and as clears... well I think its a win loose situation. Sure you gain a Sub nuke clear.. but the heal on sci team isn't really fantastic. Well yes ST 3 done right is a pretty good heal... but anyone wanting to do that already was I would think... so they are looking at adding a weak Engi team perhaps. Its just not major.
However if they follow up this change with an actual over haul... it might be a really good thing.
As long as this overhaul is in fact there planned S9... and that doesn't turn into a tune in again next major patch. You know the song we have heard for 4 years now.
They did the one major revamp to healing way back.. and over all it turned out to be good for the game. I hope they do something almost as drastic again. They could simplify a lot of skills... I wold love them to do away with Cannon and Beam buffs... and just create energy weapon skills... it would allow them to get rid of the bad FAW mechanics and use Scatter as New^3 Faw. I would also like it myself if they changed the way clears work... imo Engi debuffs should be cleared by engi team... and Sci debuffs by Science Team. Hazards should get its clears pretty much all removed. That would entice people in one ship class to use there debuffs on ships they should be naturally strong against. Meaning Science ships should have the hardest time CCing another Science ship, ect. It would be logical that a cruiser would be the most likely ship to be able to clear say an aceton or eject warp plasma... and a science ship the most likely to be able to clear a Viral matrix (computer) attack. It would make more sense, be more MMO like, and I think make for more interesting game play and more diverse teams.
Anyway lets hope they are planning some form of overhaul that is more then just dropping cool downs and other easy swings at bat.
I wonder what the balance team looks like for STO. From what I've notice, the designers come up with something crazy, then the balance team try to make it balance. STO's idea of balance is different from the players' idea of balance. This is very bad.
EI: A company makes a 2 bladed sword. The buyers says the sword is unstable and off balance. Then company says the sword is balance and perfectly fine... Someone loses an arm training with it. The company still says it's balanced. The buyers constantly says it's not balance. The company ignores them, and adds a 3 blade to the weapon....
See what's going on here? I'm sure some one will figure it out :P
People that play this game should not also play with edged weapons????
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
The biggest issue is this is a false hope for casual pvpers. The people that will use these "Triple Team" builds will be casual players for the most part. Casual PvPers will come with their triple team build and wonder why they still died maybe a second later than usual. They will come here and ask for nerfs to cannons, BO, TS THY, etc.
Antonio you said earlier that many refuse to run the Cleanse doff out of principle, I find that admirable but I used to be the same way until I would enter the queues and come against some of the premades and they would be packing whatever is OP'd at the time. Whether it was TR aftershocks, GW aftershocks, spam overload etc. The OPvP community is full of hypocrites they talk principle on the forums and then jump on a an alt account to "spam" what ever is broken or OP at the moment.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
The OPvP community is full of hypocrites they talk principle on the forums and then jump on a an alt account to "spam" what ever is broken or OP at the moment.
Sorry about that.
Brb testing the next FOTM premade way to generate zone rage.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Atb will be rendered irrelevant by the next doff pack where I am sure they have a doff planned that will reduce the cd on all boff powers to 10s - it will be a rare drop though 1 in 100 packs
That's generally how cryptic 'fixes' a balance issue.
Brb testing the next FOTM premade way to generate zone rage.
My comment was not directed towards those that test but those that say, "Well X consoles is cheese and should be used in PvP it is op'd/broken/or dumb." The you see that person or persons in their alternate account not toon running everything they are railing against. Of course when confronted they use, " I am just showing how dumb/op/broken X consoles are."
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
Comments
thats your exclusive opinion ^^ i say, there is no need for doubled skills and RSP as "must have" for a healer build....
So, please tell me, what are you doing, after you have spend all your heals, the enemy is switching and targetting another of your Mates? What have you now, to help him out of this situation?
Oh, right, you have nothing to help him...... 1 scramble can make a difference here, continuesly scrambling the main Damage-Dealer of the opposite team, prevents your Team from getting Damage....
there is NO NEED, to spam the whole Match every single Heal on Global Cooldown (we are not speaking of 2 Minutes Matches).....
And your Build isn´t "more tanky" than mine....... If the Attacker knows you have a RSP, he is waiting for it, nuke it away, and then hitting you ......
so, give me ONE Reason, to give up Utility just to throw out HE1 or ET2 at Global Cooldown (which isn´t needed at a whole match, cause there are always gaps between damage spikes)......
or show me links of your recluse build matches with better overall HPS (to yourself and to others)
2 of my matches from this morning:
http://hilbertguide.com/leaderboard/encounter.php?id=5920
http://hilbertguide.com/leaderboard/encounter.php?id=5919
I was thinking this is a nerf to my bug ship because I won't be running ET or ST on it, I still like my resists and buffs from using EPTS, EPTE, doffed A2D, HE, and TSS, hard to decide if its worth giving any of that up for a team skill.
If things do go like you say it is I will like the changes because I like playing my tacs as DHC bug or as a BOP alpha striker that can brawl a little longer then most. Just worried things won't turn out that way.
ya I don't claim to always get it right... I could be completely wrong. I guess we will find out soon.
I am hoping I'm right... I can't really see escorts being able to take advantage of this change. I can't really see most science ships being able to either... Perhaps the pallisade and wells, I am thinking people that try it though will be underwhelmed. the A2B dmg cruisers, yes they will get lots more clears... but I think the cost will be high with the loss of resists on sci team or giving up something like RSP just won't make sense. Only real winners are the pure healers... and I don't see this change really making them super strong like some think... they where already unkillable themselves, I think this just gives them the option to spike heal a bit more. With the current Vaper meta we are in I don't think thats so bad really.
Ya we will see... perhaps in a few days I will have to post and eat some crow.
Fleet D'Deridex -- 44.5k base hull
Tac Captain
TT1, BFaW2, APO1
TT1
PH1, HE2, ST3
EPtS1, AtD1, EPtW3, RSP3
ET1
There is a trade off for running the spike heals in this case. The way I see it is like this. If a couple people on a team have used there boff slots to add second teams... they are in fact making there heals more spike heavy. Meaning they can fire them both off instantly. But they can't swap another skill into those spaces... they are on cool down now. So they can't provide the same spike again for 15s... which means they have less heals for the second target. We'll have to see how it pans out... it seems most people don't agree with me.
I just think the way Engi and Sci team work they don't offer any resistance at all... so you can't just spike heal someone with an engi team and then hold your other heals... you pretty much have to hit them with both... which means you have nothing to use to heal target 2. With our current setup... I think most healers will clear a nuke with the sci team and then hit with a shield and hull resist skill... which means that other boff slot has something else in it ready to go most of the time for the next target.
Ehh we'll have to see how it shakes out. It likely will have more impact in places like Kerrat and pug groups, I think premades where already pretty well covered for clears though. I don't think any one that does lots of premade matchs can say that isn't the case we have all built to handle teams with 3 science players.
Actually have something to do that isn't same-ole same-ole.
REALLY?
the added heals are not the point here people. there are already plenty of ways to make ship unkillable. what this REALLY does is rip the nuts off all the offensive sci ships out there. Now EVERY ship can heal debuffs for the cost of a simply ensign slot.
You just got VM3 on you? ET1.
Debuffed by a sci? Silly sci, i have ST1.
What is worst is that and those of use who bought the dyson ship, now have less, if not NO use for it. we cant use it as a healer because it doent work well as one AND there are other ships who did it better. A dyson spaming GW in PVP gives laughed at when APO comes on. and debuffers just went out the window. What is left for science ships at all? Healer or death. Devs, you had better have something DAMN GOOD in the works for science ship otherwise there is no point to them unless they are healers.....
why dont you guys LISTEN to the player base MORE and fix what needs fixing and leave the other stuff alone. you guys are making things worst.
I don't see this being a big thing. A few might do it, but they'll be individually less fearsome for it.
Science Team, on the other hand, might push out TSS, but trading a resist buff for a clear and flash heal...bit of a wash.
The Big Winners here? Galaxy-X and Excelsior. The Gal-X has enough Engi slotting to pack ALL of that and an ET to boot, which no longer conflicts...and the Excelsior's third Engi ensign gains an actual use that isn't constantly locked behind TT CDs. The Gal-R gets a slight boost, but eh...Gal-R.
Now when do we get Fleet Guramba?
This is no longer true. Now anyone can carry the requisite clears without being completely exposed.
This means that Science can be made Better, as even a PUG can now carry enough clears to get free of it. So in the short run, it's certainly bad for Science, but in the long run, I think we now have that much more headroom to improve science without pushing it into uncounterable cheese. This could be a good thing.
That hideous model is absurd.
True enough. I'm not really gonna speculate either way. It feels unpleasant to me, but I'll stick to wait-and-see.
Bro do you even science? I have been running a science ship for the past month, since the dyson ships came out. Throwing debuffs is what that ship is good at. I respeced jyst to run that ship well. NOW...i have to worry about ALL,my efforts to win being cleaned by EVERYONE. If yoyu science you see the problem presented. But for those of us who bought the dyson it worst because in a pvp situation, the ship is a lot less useful and it wasnt all that useful to begin with . Drain and debuffing where all it had and they just gave people the ability to clear ALL that. Taking away the only weapons science has WHILE making a month old ship useless for pvp.
It is an slap in the face to all the science captains AND grabtwistpull to the dyson captains. Pvp will be nothing but vapers and healers. Kerrat will be NUTS, more nuts than normal. If they dont have sothing in the works for science, that profession just in pvp just got benched. EVERYTHING a science ship could use to win because clears were lock behide shared CD, is gone with the shared CD. subsystem targeting is killed by ET. subnuk and debuffed cleared by ST. Drain? ET/ST.
Whats worst is they now have given healers a way to be as broken as a2b users through PO and alpha DF. Pvp will be near unkillable A2b users with unkillable healers cross healing into immortality.... Science ships got nothing because what marion wont heal, ET and ST will.
This is "vape, heal, or die." Offensive science is dead and dyson ship buyers just got the finger.
EI: A company makes a 2 bladed sword. The buyers says the sword is unstable and off balance. Then company says the sword is balance and perfectly fine... Someone loses an arm training with it. The company still says it's balanced. The buyers constantly says it's not balance. The company ignores them, and adds a 3 blade to the weapon....
See what's going on here? I'm sure some one will figure it out :P
I wouldn't over react on this one....
Consider what is effected and what isn't.
Gravity well... NOT cleared by teams... in fact people are more likely to not be running Aux to Damp if they decide to run an engi team they didn't have before.
Tractor beam... not cleared by teams... again countered by Polarized Hull... another skill some people may not run to slot a sci team.
Viral matrix... yes indeed it is cleared by engi team... however 2 things one people are going to be spamming engi team as a heal... so VM them after 5s... VM rarely lasts longer then 10 min on players that are speced even a little bit to counter disables anyway.
Siphen and Tykens... Cleared by hazards so what really changes for these skills... nothing at all that's what.
Tachyon beam - yes cleared by sci team... IF you really are running this in PvP which most people aren't just wait for someome to Sci team first. Then drain them and know they are very likely not running TSS which really does counter the drain.
Sub Nuke... no big deal... it is insta cleared in any half decent PvP match anyway right now... so not much really changes there. The thing with sub nuke is the strip not the debuff... so who cares if they heal it... the point is they now have lost there buffs that is sort of the point.
Sensor scan... yes if there really does end up being lots more sci team this does suck... but just like FOMM got slapped down hard when tac team changed... wait for someone to use there sci team to heal... and then use sensor scan so you get the max out of it.
Palisade was far more effective and it still will be with the dubuff style I play, nothing changes for me other than the fact people may carry a sci team to clear a nuke.. ohh dear the end is nie...not.
I'll still be able to do the debuff style i want and not much is gnna change, other than the fact your going to have to really time them well, I.E. actually watch the buffs your target uses, that guys just used ET and ST (yes to be fair a Team mate can cleanse em).
I think this will create super recluses (which we already had) and super spike healing (which in a sense we had with all the resistances). You still have your windows in which to operate.
I hardly think Science is dead, they are still the Top Vaper Chaser's, my sci see's them from about 21Km away lol ( apart from MT coz...wel hes MT).
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And unlike FOMM, sensor scan is an AoE - so if you have good opportunity & target placement, you can probably hit a target that doesn't have ST ready.
10 mins, eh? lol but yeah its 10s spread out between 4 subsystems isn't too bad with leadership and all.
I actually see VM making a come back with this change. VM is the herpes of science powers when doffed and they never actually fixed it. Remember, they had to revert the change because ET "fixed" cloaking lol. Good times in kerrat with that one lol.
EDIT: also from the look of that thread from Hawk, there's a lot of power changes in the future. I'm kinda excited now
First off, the changes are scarcely announced and a lot of people start crying "Nerf!". Why? Because your uber DPS build suddenly became less uber? If anything should be nerfed it's DPS and not defense skills. The game is broken because anything that can't be insta killed is called OP and everyone cries "Nerf!". I for one hope Cryptic stops listening to the "DPS is all that matters" crowd and brings more balance back into the game.
Second, what exactly are people crying about? All they did was make it possible to chain TT, ET and ST. Those abilities still have their cooldowns they're just not all disabled when using any one of them any more. So while you can chain TT, ET and ST each one of those will still have its default cooldown which means they will still be vulnerable.
Of course with builds like Aux2Bat we'll see some very short cooldowns on those but that is because Aux2Bat is a build that is abusing game mechanics and should be nerfed instead of Team skills. I've said it many times before, Doff stacking should not be possible at all. That will fix half the balance issues in the game.
So if we're gonna cry "Nerf!" then let me cry "Nerf Doff stacking to the point where 3 x Tech Doffs or 3 x AP CD Reduce Boffs is impossible or at the very least have such diminishing returns as to not be viable!"
Ya I think the PvP value of having more spike heal isn't really as nasty as some people seem to think. The spam clears yes it will hurt a few things Scramble Sensors I guess stuff easily cleared by science team. Really though I think after the first few days most people will find they don't really want to change there PvP builds much. There just isn't enough Lt - Lt Cmd slots open to be slotting strong Engi or Sci team heals... and as clears... well I think its a win loose situation. Sure you gain a Sub nuke clear.. but the heal on sci team isn't really fantastic. Well yes ST 3 done right is a pretty good heal... but anyone wanting to do that already was I would think... so they are looking at adding a weak Engi team perhaps. Its just not major.
However if they follow up this change with an actual over haul... it might be a really good thing.
As long as this overhaul is in fact there planned S9... and that doesn't turn into a tune in again next major patch. You know the song we have heard for 4 years now.
They did the one major revamp to healing way back.. and over all it turned out to be good for the game. I hope they do something almost as drastic again. They could simplify a lot of skills... I wold love them to do away with Cannon and Beam buffs... and just create energy weapon skills... it would allow them to get rid of the bad FAW mechanics and use Scatter as New^3 Faw. I would also like it myself if they changed the way clears work... imo Engi debuffs should be cleared by engi team... and Sci debuffs by Science Team. Hazards should get its clears pretty much all removed. That would entice people in one ship class to use there debuffs on ships they should be naturally strong against. Meaning Science ships should have the hardest time CCing another Science ship, ect. It would be logical that a cruiser would be the most likely ship to be able to clear say an aceton or eject warp plasma... and a science ship the most likely to be able to clear a Viral matrix (computer) attack. It would make more sense, be more MMO like, and I think make for more interesting game play and more diverse teams.
Anyway lets hope they are planning some form of overhaul that is more then just dropping cool downs and other easy swings at bat.
People that play this game should not also play with edged weapons????
Antonio you said earlier that many refuse to run the Cleanse doff out of principle, I find that admirable but I used to be the same way until I would enter the queues and come against some of the premades and they would be packing whatever is OP'd at the time. Whether it was TR aftershocks, GW aftershocks, spam overload etc. The OPvP community is full of hypocrites they talk principle on the forums and then jump on a an alt account to "spam" what ever is broken or OP at the moment.
Sorry about that.
Brb testing the next FOTM premade way to generate zone rage.
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That's generally how cryptic 'fixes' a balance issue.
My comment was not directed towards those that test but those that say, "Well X consoles is cheese and should be used in PvP it is op'd/broken/or dumb." The you see that person or persons in their alternate account not toon running everything they are railing against. Of course when confronted they use, " I am just showing how dumb/op/broken X consoles are."