well, i do plan to now switch ships to make use of this change.
been theory crafting for the past few days since the news hit...
not sure what i will land in tho, but i plan to make use of this by running all 3 team powers. with constant rotating tac teams....i cannot ignore the possibility of a burst shield and hull heal every 30 seconds, combined with the tac team distribution.
now, i may even run sci team or eng team cd doffs as well... but that will really cut down on some other things ive been running like space quartermaster and warp core cleanse...
but one cannot ignore that aux2batt builds may get the best usage of this kind of change...basically every 15 secs you can pound out all 3....thats a big wow. i like to search for cooldown reductions outside of aux2batt builds...but this may swing me back to running one.
ah, heres to a few good days of testing for all of us.
have fun kill bad guys
Don't worry I am sure when this rolls to holodeck they slip in a doff that affects the CD of team skills where the purple will allow spamming each every 5 seconds.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
Well, the reason why TT was used and ST and ET were not was because of the shield distribution. Lots of different suggestions to solve this were made. I do not remember reading someone suggest to just remove the shared CD though. But I am not surprised. Thats how Cryptic do things.
what im saying basicly, is the healers will begin to use aux to bat to reduce cd of sci team , eng team , tac team ....
Well I hate to rain on everyone gloom parade ... however.
Engi Team Sci Team and Tac Team are not really great heals.
Yes I know 15k from a very tweaked out Engi team 3 every 15s might seem fantastic... but it offers ZERO resistance. 15k just thrown on someone isn't going to do anything but pehraps help you save them from a spike. Really 15k is ONE cannon crit. So trying to keep people up with no aux (so junk resistance heals) is going to be darn near impossible. Sure you might catch the spike from a vaper... but if one guy decides instead of vaping they'll just hang around and shoot some Cannon love... that target is going to die.
This change is not doom and gloom folks.
It increases spike healing is all.... however if you really want to build a super healer around super tricked out team heals you are going to have to give up both Boff and Doff slots to do it... making you a better healer VS spikes... and a worse healers vs sustained.
This isn't going to make for super healers... Even the current rash of Dmg Heavy A2B cruisers won't really get a major boost here. Its simple really those ships will have to trade something major to run a high level Engi team... so you MAY see a few more of them running engi team 1... which outside of the clear isn't really all that great. As for running Sci team again ships withi Lt CMD tacs will have to dump one of there 2 science skills. It won't be hazards I'm sure... so they either give up more shield resistance or a tractor break.... either way by trying to run a bunch of teams they are either opening themselves up to tractor beams or making themselves more squish when it comes to good old standard Cannon pressure from an escort.
I LOVE this chance because IMO it will reduce some of the bad Vaper builds we see everywhere. Sure the guys that know how to do that well aren't going to change from it... but Vape is sort of the flavor right now... and what will do best vs people trying to be Team Heavy healers will be good old sustained pressure. 15s seems great... but for a heal with zero res its in fact not.
In STO the healing that makes a good premade hard to kill is the resistance stacking... I don't see someone getting 3 or 4 engi teams when they get focused as a great victory... it will allow them to survive a silly clicky strike..... but 5s later if a team is applying real pressure they are going to drop with out super stacked resistance.
Some people will find a nice mix build wise to improve there healers I'm sure no doubt... but it won't be by using A2B... and even those good healers they are now going to be more susceptible to being faked out with target swapping.
Well, the reason why TT was used and ST and ET were not was because of the shield distribution. Lots of different suggestions to solve this were made. I do not remember reading someone suggest to just remove the shared CD though. But I am not surprised. Thats how Cryptic do things.
I suggested it awhile back... of courese I suggested 7 or 8 other changes to go with it... still I did say it I admit it. lol
SOme of your ideas are valid. Right now with the proposed changes I think TT will be a staple on all ships still, I think until the cleanse doff gets fixed this will be psuedo ST so escorts will probably not run ST, ET is meh I think any team that foregos a resist based heal like A2S for a ET is dumb. All this does is allows sci and healers to load up on low level tossable lifel lines. I think once people realize the investment needed to make these skills highly functional you have to give up better things in its place. I really cannot see a tac escort with a LT eng giving up EPtS or EPtX for an ET. This could make the Mogai and other escorts with similar layouts or an extra boff slot that is eng or uni more useful but not overly useful. Without the use of Beam target skills and phasers ET 1 or 2 are pretty useless.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
Antoniosalieri you keep avoiding the fact that is change completely removes a science captain powers and most offensive science boff powers. You add in op doffs and a player is 100% immune to
Scincentive ~ that removes almost an entire class from usefulness in the game - you think that is a good thing?
SOme of your ideas are valid. Right now with the proposed changes I think TT will be a staple on all ships still, I think until the cleanse doff gets fixed this will be psuedo ST so escorts will probably not run ST, ET is meh I think any team that foregos a resist based heal like A2S for a ET is dumb. All this does is allows sci and healers to load up on low level tossable lifel lines. I think once people realize the investment needed to make these skills highly functional you have to give up better things in its place. I really cannot see a tac escort with a LT eng giving up EPtS or EPtX for an ET. This could make the Mogai and other escorts with similar layouts or an extra boff slot that is eng or uni more useful but not overly useful. Without the use of Beam target skills and phasers ET 1 or 2 are pretty useless.
I agree completely. There are only a few ships that can really make this a plues. Escorts would be crazy to drop something like Aux to Damp to run an Engi Team... A2B DMG cruiser guys can't afford to drop an RSP, and slotting a Sci team on those ships is a wash as I see it as they are not sci slot heavy, the only cruisers with Lt Cmd Sci or a second Sci ensign don't have lt cmd tacs and are much less threatening.
The only things I see this helping are... some very well setup Super healers. That are still going to hvae to choose something to give up... and even then this makes them more spike style healers. Which is nice VS Vapers but again will take a lot of skill to pull off... if you can force one of these players to pop all there heals on one target they are going to be light for 14s.
The other thing I see it helping out iwth... is the standard average pug player. Who may be more willing to clear a subnuke off a team mate if it isn't stopping them from spamming there tac team. (which we all tell them they MUST run in pvp or don't show up).
Improving the level of heal sharing in pugs is NOT a bad thing for pvp in general.
For premades I see this may perhaps effect the meta slighly... meaning a well setup team may be better at catching the spikes from some of the super popular vaper builds. Really though to still be effective at handing the more standard escort style players say like a Hanibal or a Thales... loading up on instant none resist skills will be a bad idea... and if those guys are rapid switching targets they are going to chew them up. So I would say after a week or two of experimenting things for premades will pretty much go back to as they are now... with a few good healers being a little bit better at catching vape runs.
Antoniosalieri you keep avoiding the fact that is change completely removes a science captain powers and most offensive science boff powers. You add in op doffs and a player is 100% immune to
Scincentive ~ that removes almost an entire class from usefulness in the game - you think that is a good thing?
Lets not forget unless properly timed there should be a bigger window to do high pressure damage. If teams get rid of "real" heals for these band aids ships will die during cooldowns.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
Antoniosalieri you keep avoiding the fact that is change completely removes a science captain powers and most offensive science boff powers. You add in op doffs and a player is 100% immune to
Scincentive ~ that removes almost an entire class from usefulness in the game - you think that is a good thing?
Because for the reasons I stated I don't think that will be the case.
Science team is going to make no sense at all on escorts out side of pugging ones. If they do run it yes they will be more ready to clear a sub nuke debuff... but its the buff strip that will kill them... Nuke them when you know they are not on EPTS cool down... and they will die cleared or not. (unless they are getting extends from someone).
Tractor them if they are running sci team when there omega is down. Sure 15s gap between omega on a well doffed escort... but 15s of not moving is still really really bad. They will wish they had a PH instead of a sci team then.
If they are stupid enough to be running engi team over aux to damp... Gravity well them with a after shock doff and at some point the omega won't be up and again they will be annoyed.
Yes a team can have more clears... but Sci has always been about good timing. I really don't see teams going nuts with 10 new copies of team skills... because if they do some of us will just run our old cannon bug builds and chew them up.
The people complaining the most about this that fly sci are being really self centered I think....
Not long ago we got our deflector doffs fixed... I don't know my sci has Siphen every 30s... GW every 30s... Tykens every 30s... and tachyon beam (which perhaps I will slot now lol)... on a 20s cool down.
Its ok for us to have gotten the Science Super doff a few weeks back... but increasing the clears a to match that cycle time is bad ?
The people complaining the most about this that fly sci are being really self centered I think....
It's not just Sci...it's anybody with more than a single Lt Sci BOFF that previously used any debuff/control abilities.
You used to be able to create an opportunity cost - because this game is being developed for toddlers with iPads, that's obviously too much - folks shouldn't be required to think in the least.
The team abilities were too powerful to begin with...and then to do this?
There's no point in playing this game other than as some mix of Star Trek Ville and Angry Star Trek Birds...it's got all the depth of a Facebook game.
The only thing I wish is that Tac Team wasn't as required as it is. I'd love to see TSS gain shield distribution like TT has now and for PH to clear attack pattern beta/delta debuffs.
Most things have more than one way to clear them or to achieve a buff. Several boff abilities break holds, and several provide shield resistance for example. And yes RSP is in practice similar to the shield distro of TT for surviving spike but it is not a viable replacement.
At this point, I just give up. In about 2 to 3 hours the devs will post the Holodeck release notes and move this whole shared cooldown removal into the game without any hint they listened to all the feedback given beforehand.
At this point, I just give up. In about 2 to 3 hours the devs will post the Holodeck release notes and move this whole shared cooldown removal into the game without any hint they listened to all the feedback given beforehand.
in star cityzen the dev are listening the comunoty feedback and they are building the game with the comunoty !
in star cityzen the dev are listening the comunoty feedback and they are building the game with the comunoty !
That is very easy to do when you don't have a product. People said the exact same thing about this game before it had a beta out as well. I also said the same thing about TOR and Rift and just about every other game I have played when it wasn't launched.
1 day after launch some people will be upset about something... and others will be fine with it... and others will be indifferent on that issue but livid about something else.
I am a huge fan of the old WC games, I really do hope Roberts pulls off an Epic game for the ages. Just saying when you got nothing for people to complain about it isn't hard to keep them happy.
That is very easy to do when you don't have a product. People said the exact same thing about this game before it had a beta out as well. I also said the same thing about TOR and Rift and just about every other game I have played when it wasn't launched.
1 day after launch some people will be upset about something... and others will be fine with it... and others will be indifferent on that issue but livid about something else.
I am a huge fan of the old WC games, I really do hope Roberts pulls off an Epic game for the ages. Just saying when you got nothing for people to complain about it isn't hard to keep them happy.
you dont seen what they have done allready ! plus we can play the 12th april and the alfa is now, plus 400 k player have plaged into it. its like they have 400k alfa tester !
you dont seen what they have done allready ! plus we can play the 12th april and the alfa is now, plus 400 k player have plaged to its like they have 400k alfa tester !
Sure and I played in a TOR beta for almost a year where the game got better every single patch and the developers asked real questions and made real changes based on feedback... explained why they where trying X or Y and heck even came out and PvPed with us in the beta to hash stuff out.
Guess what happened when the game launched and 2 million people started the wine in 100 different directions.
I hope that game pans out... I'm just saying until its live on a server and has a full population of people that are not all going to have the same idea about what that game should be. There is no comparison.
Sure and I played in a TOR beta for almost a year where the game got better every single patch and the developers asked real questions and made real changes based on feedback... explained why they where trying X or Y and heck even came out and PvPed with us in the beta to hash stuff out.
Guess what happened when the game launched and 2 million people started the wine in 100 different directions.
I hope that game pans out... I'm just saying until its live on a server and has a full population of people that are not all going to have the same idea about what that game should be. There is no comparison.
well hope u will not regret to not buy it now during there is some alfa slot avalible !! cause the dogfighting module will be epic and polished based on full immersion with movie effect cause with the cryengine 3 allow it !
plus ur not realy a fan of WC cause if u was u should have spent the 40$ it cost to buy the game with alfa and beta access !
well hope u will not regret to not buy it now during there is some alfa slot avalible !! cause the dogfighting module will be epic and polished based on full immersion with movie effect cause with the cryengine 3 allow it !
plus ur not realy a fan of WC cause if u was u should have spent the 40$ it cost to buy the game with alfa and beta access !
Who said I didn't ? I just said comparing the level of Community love for a game that doesn't exist yet is silly.
The empty console slot is reserved for the Alpha Deception Field console, which the planner doesn't have an icon for.
I put a PO II but it could very well have been a PO I, then bumped TSS into a TSS III or HE III.
If you are a healer and wants to use A2B, there is an easy trick to maintain high Aux throughout A2B. Simply switch your power plan to one with low aux setting just before A2B (require very high EPS), then switch back to your max aux setting. Even better, because you can press A2B every 27 sec (when not using PO) and EPTA comes in every 30 sec, let EPTA expire for a sec, switch to low Aux profile, hit A2B, the EPTA then back to max aux profile. All you care is the CD reduction, not how much power it pumps into other systems. And if you pressed A2B, then immediately followed by EPTA, then even the EPTA will have its CD reduced by A2B as there is a slight delay in A2B activation but the Aux boost from EPTA will not be absorbed by A2B. Any Sci who has been using A2B knows it's extremely easy to work around the aux drain issue for anyone even with half of a brain, well except some people here who can only think in a straight line but nothing else, that is.
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Don't worry I am sure when this rolls to holodeck they slip in a doff that affects the CD of team skills where the purple will allow spamming each every 5 seconds.
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except its free from a doff mission...that's another reason why it's so popular...it's easy to get.
That was one of my thoughts also. As well as the fact you can get it from the Borg doff mission.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
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healer with a2b? lol, just think about it for a second.....
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
Well I hate to rain on everyone gloom parade ... however.
Engi Team Sci Team and Tac Team are not really great heals.
Yes I know 15k from a very tweaked out Engi team 3 every 15s might seem fantastic... but it offers ZERO resistance. 15k just thrown on someone isn't going to do anything but pehraps help you save them from a spike. Really 15k is ONE cannon crit. So trying to keep people up with no aux (so junk resistance heals) is going to be darn near impossible. Sure you might catch the spike from a vaper... but if one guy decides instead of vaping they'll just hang around and shoot some Cannon love... that target is going to die.
This change is not doom and gloom folks.
It increases spike healing is all.... however if you really want to build a super healer around super tricked out team heals you are going to have to give up both Boff and Doff slots to do it... making you a better healer VS spikes... and a worse healers vs sustained.
This isn't going to make for super healers... Even the current rash of Dmg Heavy A2B cruisers won't really get a major boost here. Its simple really those ships will have to trade something major to run a high level Engi team... so you MAY see a few more of them running engi team 1... which outside of the clear isn't really all that great. As for running Sci team again ships withi Lt CMD tacs will have to dump one of there 2 science skills. It won't be hazards I'm sure... so they either give up more shield resistance or a tractor break.... either way by trying to run a bunch of teams they are either opening themselves up to tractor beams or making themselves more squish when it comes to good old standard Cannon pressure from an escort.
I LOVE this chance because IMO it will reduce some of the bad Vaper builds we see everywhere. Sure the guys that know how to do that well aren't going to change from it... but Vape is sort of the flavor right now... and what will do best vs people trying to be Team Heavy healers will be good old sustained pressure. 15s seems great... but for a heal with zero res its in fact not.
In STO the healing that makes a good premade hard to kill is the resistance stacking... I don't see someone getting 3 or 4 engi teams when they get focused as a great victory... it will allow them to survive a silly clicky strike..... but 5s later if a team is applying real pressure they are going to drop with out super stacked resistance.
Some people will find a nice mix build wise to improve there healers I'm sure no doubt... but it won't be by using A2B... and even those good healers they are now going to be more susceptible to being faked out with target swapping.
no need to have aux power over 125 during a hour to give a tss or he or aux to sif ..
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I suggested it awhile back... of courese I suggested 7 or 8 other changes to go with it... still I did say it I admit it. lol
EDIT... ok I know I have mentioned the global thing... but I guess my long winded post on it was a bit different
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=576581
SOme of your ideas are valid. Right now with the proposed changes I think TT will be a staple on all ships still, I think until the cleanse doff gets fixed this will be psuedo ST so escorts will probably not run ST, ET is meh I think any team that foregos a resist based heal like A2S for a ET is dumb. All this does is allows sci and healers to load up on low level tossable lifel lines. I think once people realize the investment needed to make these skills highly functional you have to give up better things in its place. I really cannot see a tac escort with a LT eng giving up EPtS or EPtX for an ET. This could make the Mogai and other escorts with similar layouts or an extra boff slot that is eng or uni more useful but not overly useful. Without the use of Beam target skills and phasers ET 1 or 2 are pretty useless.
Scincentive ~ that removes almost an entire class from usefulness in the game - you think that is a good thing?
I agree completely. There are only a few ships that can really make this a plues. Escorts would be crazy to drop something like Aux to Damp to run an Engi Team... A2B DMG cruiser guys can't afford to drop an RSP, and slotting a Sci team on those ships is a wash as I see it as they are not sci slot heavy, the only cruisers with Lt Cmd Sci or a second Sci ensign don't have lt cmd tacs and are much less threatening.
The only things I see this helping are... some very well setup Super healers. That are still going to hvae to choose something to give up... and even then this makes them more spike style healers. Which is nice VS Vapers but again will take a lot of skill to pull off... if you can force one of these players to pop all there heals on one target they are going to be light for 14s.
The other thing I see it helping out iwth... is the standard average pug player. Who may be more willing to clear a subnuke off a team mate if it isn't stopping them from spamming there tac team. (which we all tell them they MUST run in pvp or don't show up).
Improving the level of heal sharing in pugs is NOT a bad thing for pvp in general.
For premades I see this may perhaps effect the meta slighly... meaning a well setup team may be better at catching the spikes from some of the super popular vaper builds. Really though to still be effective at handing the more standard escort style players say like a Hanibal or a Thales... loading up on instant none resist skills will be a bad idea... and if those guys are rapid switching targets they are going to chew them up. So I would say after a week or two of experimenting things for premades will pretty much go back to as they are now... with a few good healers being a little bit better at catching vape runs.
Lets not forget unless properly timed there should be a bigger window to do high pressure damage. If teams get rid of "real" heals for these band aids ships will die during cooldowns.
Because for the reasons I stated I don't think that will be the case.
Science team is going to make no sense at all on escorts out side of pugging ones. If they do run it yes they will be more ready to clear a sub nuke debuff... but its the buff strip that will kill them... Nuke them when you know they are not on EPTS cool down... and they will die cleared or not. (unless they are getting extends from someone).
Tractor them if they are running sci team when there omega is down. Sure 15s gap between omega on a well doffed escort... but 15s of not moving is still really really bad. They will wish they had a PH instead of a sci team then.
If they are stupid enough to be running engi team over aux to damp... Gravity well them with a after shock doff and at some point the omega won't be up and again they will be annoyed.
Yes a team can have more clears... but Sci has always been about good timing. I really don't see teams going nuts with 10 new copies of team skills... because if they do some of us will just run our old cannon bug builds and chew them up.
The people complaining the most about this that fly sci are being really self centered I think....
Not long ago we got our deflector doffs fixed... I don't know my sci has Siphen every 30s... GW every 30s... Tykens every 30s... and tachyon beam (which perhaps I will slot now lol)... on a 20s cool down.
Its ok for us to have gotten the Science Super doff a few weeks back... but increasing the clears a to match that cycle time is bad ?
funny that was 1 year ago today you posted that lol
It's not just Sci...it's anybody with more than a single Lt Sci BOFF that previously used any debuff/control abilities.
You used to be able to create an opportunity cost - because this game is being developed for toddlers with iPads, that's obviously too much - folks shouldn't be required to think in the least.
The team abilities were too powerful to begin with...and then to do this?
There's no point in playing this game other than as some mix of Star Trek Ville and Angry Star Trek Birds...it's got all the depth of a Facebook game.
Most things have more than one way to clear them or to achieve a buff. Several boff abilities break holds, and several provide shield resistance for example. And yes RSP is in practice similar to the shield distro of TT for surviving spike but it is not a viable replacement.
Just my personal opinion.
in star cityzen the dev are listening the comunoty feedback and they are building the game with the comunoty !
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That's funny, didn't even notice that.
You think if I start another remove faw thread it might get done next year same day ?
That is very easy to do when you don't have a product. People said the exact same thing about this game before it had a beta out as well. I also said the same thing about TOR and Rift and just about every other game I have played when it wasn't launched.
1 day after launch some people will be upset about something... and others will be fine with it... and others will be indifferent on that issue but livid about something else.
I am a huge fan of the old WC games, I really do hope Roberts pulls off an Epic game for the ages. Just saying when you got nothing for people to complain about it isn't hard to keep them happy.
you dont seen what they have done allready ! plus we can play the 12th april and the alfa is now, plus 400 k player have plaged into it. its like they have 400k alfa tester !
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Sure and I played in a TOR beta for almost a year where the game got better every single patch and the developers asked real questions and made real changes based on feedback... explained why they where trying X or Y and heck even came out and PvPed with us in the beta to hash stuff out.
Guess what happened when the game launched and 2 million people started the wine in 100 different directions.
I hope that game pans out... I'm just saying until its live on a server and has a full population of people that are not all going to have the same idea about what that game should be. There is no comparison.
well hope u will not regret to not buy it now during there is some alfa slot avalible !! cause the dogfighting module will be epic and polished based on full immersion with movie effect cause with the cryengine 3 allow it !
plus ur not realy a fan of WC cause if u was u should have spent the 40$ it cost to buy the game with alfa and beta access !
JOIN us in Star Citizen https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/INQ <
Who said I didn't ? I just said comparing the level of Community love for a game that doesn't exist yet is silly.
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=superhealerxxx_0
The empty console slot is reserved for the Alpha Deception Field console, which the planner doesn't have an icon for.
I put a PO II but it could very well have been a PO I, then bumped TSS into a TSS III or HE III.
If you are a healer and wants to use A2B, there is an easy trick to maintain high Aux throughout A2B. Simply switch your power plan to one with low aux setting just before A2B (require very high EPS), then switch back to your max aux setting. Even better, because you can press A2B every 27 sec (when not using PO) and EPTA comes in every 30 sec, let EPTA expire for a sec, switch to low Aux profile, hit A2B, the EPTA then back to max aux profile. All you care is the CD reduction, not how much power it pumps into other systems. And if you pressed A2B, then immediately followed by EPTA, then even the EPTA will have its CD reduced by A2B as there is a slight delay in A2B activation but the Aux boost from EPTA will not be absorbed by A2B. Any Sci who has been using A2B knows it's extremely easy to work around the aux drain issue for anyone even with half of a brain, well except some people here who can only think in a straight line but nothing else, that is.