The extra sci team will be handy on a premade sure... but this isn't anything you couldn't be running now.
I mean where is the issue with this build I don't get it. Yes its cute that you plan to use a cheese click console to reset your photonic officer. Again this isn't really any different for a premade then what can be done now. Its not like super engi team healers in premades don't work now... adding an extra sci team clear... ya ok ... right now a premade healer might bring it and rarely use it. Who cares... its not like one ship setup this way is going to do a much better job of team healing then what can already be done..
All this does is improve heal boats in places like Pug Arenas and Kerrat. So what really. Again any half decent premade isn't lacking on tac teams or sci teams... the only thing these types of builds may do is make them viable when your team mates are strangers and in general suck.
remove photonic offifer for sci team 3 and sci team 1 for pol hull 1 and that console use ams and subspace jump then u willl have somthing decent !
Let me clarify something, I don't play in premades and I don't own a Recluse, nor do I intend to get one and a super healer. That sketch, as I called it, was just that. I am not accustomed to use cheese in my builds, not wired to think that way. It wouldn't surprise me if cheesy premades look at this sketch and say : "WTF, this is BS!" By all means, run with it. I put it together in under 3 minutes, just guessing what a premade would need and how to exploit the expected changes to Team Skills.
Anyway, I think I made my point. As far as I can see, there is only one obstinate left in this thread but, I really couldn't care because if someone wants to insist the Earth is flat because they are a member of Flat Earth Society, there is simply nothing I can do about that.
I like this change. There is no logical reason why the Tactical, Engineering, and Science teams should share a global cooldown. It is not as though the teams are all comprised of the same crewmembers. The Tactical Team is comprised of tactical officers and the Science Teams is comprised of science officers. There really is no good reason why they should not be able to work simultaneously.
I like this change. There is no logical reason why the Tactical, Engineering, and Science teams should share a global cooldown. It is not as though the teams are all comprised of the same crewmembers. The Tactical Team is comprised of tactical officers and the Science Teams is comprised of science officers. There really is no good reason why they should not be able to work simultaneously.
Let me clarify something, I don't play in premades and I don't own a Recluse, nor do I intend to get one and a super healer. That sketch, as I called it, was just that. I am not accustomed to use cheese in my builds, not wired to think that way. It wouldn't surprise me if cheesy premades look at this sketch and say : "WTF, this is BS!" By all means, run with it. I put it together in under 3 minutes, just guessing what a premade would need and how to exploit the expected changes to Team Skills.
Anyway, I think I made my point. As far as I can see, there is only one obstinate left in this thread but, I really couldn't care because if someone wants to insist the Earth is flat because they are a member of Flat Earth Society, there is simply nothing I can do about that.
That is sort of what I am saying though... this isn't areally a great premade build even with all those teams at global.
Healers running tac team in premades... not needed at all. If one of my healers calls for a tac team he gets one just as fast as if I call for a sci team I get one from him.
The only way I can see this effecting premades... is more running an engi team then perhaps are right now. Truth is though most premades do have one healer with an engi team. It helps catch the spikes from vapers. What it doesn't do much of is heal. Really the healing is coming from other skills.
For a premade healer Tac team isn't really needed... and every premade is already packing at least 2 sci teams at global. So this change really doens't effect them.
They are not going to start running Sci teams or Engi teams on there escorts / Vapers.
They are not really gaining much by getting 1-3 extra low level engi and sci teams.
So for premade play this change will have very little impact as I see it.
The Sketch you threw up there is a great pugging build now. I never take my healer toons out to pug with... why because people run from your heals they don't stick around... they don't tac team you when you really need it after saving them from a vape. All this change does is let me take a healer (somewhat setup like you are talking) into the pug ques... and not want to claw my own eyes out.
If the standard kirk style cruisers start carrying an extra sci team and clear each other... or even manage to bring a Engi team 1 along at least they can in fact use them on there team mates with out thinking oh no my tac team rotation will get messed up I an't helping that guy.
This change will boost pugs and people flying around kerrat no doubt. Still it does it at a cost... because outside of the recluse (which is obviously a heal boat and no threat on its own) giving up resist heavy skills in favor of them... or even doffs that boost the resist heals is just not really that great.
Front load heal with teams... or offer all ways up protection roles with resist heals. This change will allow you to dream up some hybrid heal designs... but it will hardly unbalance the game.
The empty console slot is reserved for the Alpha Deception Field console, which the planner doesn't have an icon for.
I put a PO II but it could very well have been a PO I, then bumped TSS into a TSS III or HE III.
If you are a healer and wants to use A2B, there is an easy trick to maintain high Aux throughout A2B. Simply switch your power plan to one with low aux setting just before A2B (require very high EPS), then switch back to your max aux setting. Even better, because you can press A2B every 27 sec (when not using PO) and EPTA comes in every 30 sec, let EPTA expire for a sec, switch to low Aux profile, hit A2B, the EPTA then back to max aux profile. All you care is the CD reduction, not how much power it pumps into other systems. And if you pressed A2B, then immediately followed by EPTA, then even the EPTA will have its CD reduced by A2B as there is a slight delay in A2B activation but the Aux boost from EPTA will not be absorbed by A2B. Any Sci who has been using A2B knows it's extremely easy to work around the aux drain issue for anyone even with half of a brain, well except some people here who can only think in a straight line but nothing else, that is.
lol !
true super Healer!
hopefully i not have someone with those build in my team ...... epic fail
btw. i fly a recluse myself, with PO, but no need there for a A2B whatever ..... your HPS you will run with this build, will be much lower than mine, very much!
There are some escorts with 3+ engi or sci, and they will be much more interesting to fight with and against. 3 sci used to be, well do I put a TB or duplicate HE or (if LtCmdr) a TSS, now its going to be ST viable in all of them, which means instant shield healing on any escort with 3 sci abilities. That's a radical shift in the gameplay script, to have escorts that can restore a large chunk of shield health every 15 seconds. Same with escorts that have 3+ engi stations who can now run around restoring hull every 15 seconds. These are radical changes.
And you put it on a cruiser, they are going to be even more zombie than before.
I can see some of the attraction to it, but I dont think its going to be good for gameplay overall.
If they are going to be instant heals then they need to be spread out like RSP is spread out. That's what the shared cooldown lockout did.
All this does is improve heal boats in places like Pug Arenas and Kerrat. So what really. Again any half decent premade isn't lacking on tac teams or sci teams... the only thing these types of builds may do is make them viable when your team mates are strangers and in general suck.
I think it will help premade healers a lot too by letting the them run ET3 and ST3, it will make healers in general OP and is a nerf to non healboats, it will make pug and premade matches take longer too.
There are some escorts with 3+ engi or sci, and they will be much more interesting to fight with and against. 3 sci used to be, well do I put a TB or duplicate HE or (if LtCmdr) a TSS, now its going to be ST viable in all of them, which means instant shield healing on any escort with 3 sci abilities. That's a radical shift in the gameplay script, to have escorts that can restore a large chunk of shield health every 15 seconds. Same with escorts that have 3+ engi stations who can now run around restoring hull every 15 seconds. These are radical changes.
And you put it on a cruiser, they are going to be even more zombie than before.
I can see some of the attraction to it, but I dont think its going to be good for gameplay overall.
If they are going to be instant heals then they need to be spread out like RSP is spread out. That's what the shared cooldown lockout did.
Every 15s ? really so you are planning to what put your Attack pattern Doffs away for a couple sci team doffs ? Or are you planning to drop your number of Dmg control doffs ? Or are you planning to not run an aux to damp doff.
Yes there is a possibility with Lt Cmd sci escorts... to perhaps run a sci team... but if you want to run sci team 3 you are giving up on trying to do more dmg with your sci slots... making you well less of a threat to sub nuke in the first place.
Or are you planning to run a ST 1... in which case the heal isn't really that strong doesn't impart any resist at all. You could I guess run TSS 3 instead and ST 1... or Hazards 3 but you are still giving up dmg... and not doing what an escort should be doing.
I do agree with you though this could open SOME interesting options for some ships... still its going to make more sense when you are flying solo with no back up.
With 3 engi stations again in an escort... if you have 3 engi stations is it worth not running aux to damp ? really for an engi team ? that you would also have to use up 2 of your doff spaces to make effective at all. If you have an escort with 4 slots.... I guess perhaps running an engi team 1 might make sense... still are you really going to doff it... seems dumb to me.
I think it will help premade healers a lot too by letting the them run ET3 and ST3, it will make healers in general OP and is a nerf to non healboats, it will make pug and premade matches take longer too.
Or people will realize just how not so great engi team really is. lol
No resistance ... clears debuffs that are hardly ever used... and only really heals 10k+ if you yes run version 3 using up a LT cmd slot.. and commit to it with consoles.
Yes we will see more premades running Engi team 1s and 2s... with 7-8k being the average heal. You tell me in terms of healing sustained dmg is that any good at all ?
All it will help with is helping catch vape attacks ... and that imo is just fine, and a good change.
I could be wrong of course... I just don't see healers who are already pretty loaded up with doffs trading to more doff slots just to run a Engi team.
Engi team is just weak out side of helping catch spike.
Every 15s ? really so you are planning to what put your Attack pattern Doffs away for a couple sci team doffs ? Or are you planning to drop your number of Dmg control doffs ? Or are you planning to not run an aux to damp doff.
I dont use those expensive DOFFs, dont need them, I use some basic ones and spec the char to make it work.
Yes there is a possibility with Lt Cmd sci escorts... to perhaps run a sci team... but if you want to run sci team 3 you are giving up on trying to do more dmg with your sci slots... making you well less of a threat to sub nuke in the first place.
It's not limited to LtCmdr sci, you can do it with 2+1 station layout too. PH1/ST2 + HE1. And you arent giving up much, like I said most of those are looking at tractor beam or duplicate HE or maybe TSS2.
With 3 engi stations again in an escort... if you have 3 engi stations is it worth not running aux to damp ?
Maybe, it depends. Some people run RSP1 some pepole run AtD1 some people like me slot 2 + 3 layout and run 5 engi on a T'varo
I think it will help premade healers a lot too by letting the them run ET3 and ST3, it will make healers in general OP and is a nerf to non healboats, it will make pug and premade matches take longer too.
mimimimi
the message is too short
Just to give you a idea:
my Recluse has:
Photonic Officer 3, Sci Team 3, TSS3, HE2, Aux2Sif2 and Extend Shields 1
The only change for me will be, that now i can use my tactic team on my self, without blocking my best heal for my mates or myself, and so i´m not killed such easy like you want to do.....
that means, you just have to stay at one side of me, shooting through a one timed opened shield side directly on my hull, while i´m trying to manully distribute my shields, just to have Science Team 3 for my own.... now i can use Tac-Team, and can heal myself, and YOU have too shoot all of my 4 Shield Sides down, before you can get to my hull......
for my self, i´m thinking about replacing Aux2Sif2 for Eng Team 3, but i prefer Resistance Healing.....so i think, i will stay with Aux2Sif2 and not replacing it.....
So, i think, you are only afraid you are not able to take such easy kills in future, nothing more
thx to antonio, seems he is the only one, who is caught the point....
It's not limited to LtCmdr sci, you can do it with 2+1 station layout too. PH1/ST2 + HE1. And you arent giving up much, like I said most of those are looking at tractor beam or duplicate HE or maybe TSS2.
Maybe, it depends. Some people run RSP1 some pepole run AtD1 some people like me slot 2 + 3 layout and run 5 engi on a T'varo
Well I guess we will have to see after the change if dropping a TSS is worth it for a sci team. I will agree that in pug situations that is likely the case... always good to be able to clear nukes yourself. In a team game though I think the healer would rather you have a higher shield resistance. I guess we will see how it shakes out when it happens tommorow. I just don't see any premade escorts dropping resistance skills in favor of a weak (mostly undoffed) science team or engi team.
I guess if you have so so escort doffs anyway... pehraps doffing a team will be worth it. I am just thinking of the top players I know and there builds... and I don't see how dumping there Attack Pattern doffs... or reducing there number of dmg control doffs... or not running aux to damp would be a good idea.
Escort wise... think about the doffs you really can't afford to drop.
- 2-3 Dmg control doffs you can't run less then 2
- Attack Pattern Doffs... I know some people don't have them but Omega 3 up 50% of the time most hard core long time escort jocks have 2... won't be taking those off.
- Aux to Damp doff... 2 Free armor consoles... 2 free RCS consoles... 50% of a EPTE speed boost... 1 free Kinetic Resist console... and Immunity to TBR, GW, and Grav Torp rifts. Uptime with the doff around 80%... crazy to drop that to doff an Engi team of any level.
- Warp Core cleanse doff... Some people won't run them on princible... but many do... and they won't be dropping them to doff engi team.
With that list of High end Escort build doffs... it makes zero sense to try and doff a sci or engi team imo.
Cruisers have to drop resists which they can hardly afford to do with there slow nature and defense issues.
Sci ships... only ships like pallisade and wells I think may possibly have some room to add in Engi teams and doff them... I'm just not sure it is really all that needed in the game right now. Although with the number of people trying to run "vape" builds I don't think throwing a few more healers with a bit more spike HPS is game breaking. By doing that imo they give up some possible CC options in there own builds... or some extra resistance based heals.
I think it is only really viable on a few ships to run multiple doffed up team heals... and in those cases it makes them stronger catching spike and weaker dealing with pressure. So I don't see it as being a doom and gloom situation that many are making out.
The only change for me will be, that now i can use my tactic team on my self, without blocking my best heal for my mates or myself...
This illustrates my point.
In any premade you wouldn't need a tac team yourself because good escort pilots SHOULD be able to help you. When you call for a tac team you should pretty much get one instantly.
However if you are flying with less experienced players or complete pug groups. You are now not relying on them because someone baited you by switching target to you after you just saved someone else.
This is a great change for pugs if they play with the right attitude and use there teams to help teammates... before the change doing so did put you in a tight spot... and yes any vet player knew that and took advantage of it.
Photonic Officer 3, Sci Team 3, TSS3, HE2, Aux2Sif2 and Extend Shields 1
The only change for me will be, that now i can use my tactic team on my self, without blocking my best heal for my mates or myself, and so i´m not killed such easy like you want to do.....
that means, you just have to stay at one side of me, shooting through a one timed opened shield side directly on my hull, while i´m trying to manully distribute my shields, just to have Science Team 3 for my own.... now i can use Tac-Team, and can heal myself, and YOU have too shoot all of my 4 Shield Sides down, before you can get to my hull......
for my self, i´m thinking about replacing Aux2Sif2 for Eng Team 3, but i prefer Resistance Healing.....so i think, i will stay with Aux2Sif2 and not replacing it.....
So, i think, you are only afraid you are not able to take such easy kills in future, nothing more
thx to antonio, seems he is the only one, who is caught the point....
I play all ship types and classes and have an eng recluse and it will be spamming both ET3 and ST3 because I use the uni as eng like most healers do, I am not worried about not being able to kill you, you cant even keep epts up full time with your build, there will always be opportunities to kill a build like that. If you are worried about using TT on yourself I can already tell you aren't on a helpful team so there is no way you have a chance on a build that can't keep epts up full time. I am worried about not being able to kill builds like mine, not yours.
I play all ship types and classes and have an eng recluse and it will be spamming both ET3 and ST3 because I use the uni as eng like most healers do, I am not worried about not being able to kill you, you cant even keep epts up full time with your build, there will always be opportunities to kill a build like that. If you are worried about using TT on yourself I can already tell you aren't on a helpful team so there is no way you have a chance on a build that can't keep epts up full time. I am worried about not being able to kill builds like mine, not yours.
i can keep up epts with a little downtime between, which i can fill up with other skills. I´m engineer and use the Universal Slot on my Recluse with a Sci Cmdr.
I think, you are worry about there is no way to kill Builds like yours, so i think, you have RSP at your build, which givin you a extra window. I can tank pretty good without.
Until yet, i didn´t need to "spam" ET and ST
ok, look at this:
Your Team with 2 Tac and 2 Sci against a other Team with 1 Recluse Healer with my Build, only change will be the replace of Aux2Sif2 against ET3
You attacking Target 1, i give him ST3 and ET3
You switch to Target 2, i give him Extend 1 + TSS3
You switch again to Target 1, i give him HE2
now nuke Target 1 the first time, i give him ST3 and ET3 again
nuke him again!
NOW you have a at least 10 Seconds Window to burst him down. The Damage good Escorts can do, is way enough to kill one target in 10 Seconds, while i only can look how you kill my mate.
So, you think this will be a major Change? this won´t be, you just have to time it better and coordinate better than before, and there will be a increas in Time to Kill yes.......
even more unkillable when in kerrat and you can drop an extends for another RSP or downgrade ET3 to 2 and bump EPTS up to 3
why i should double skills, when i have a Photonic Officer 3, which allow me, to have another useful skills like jam and sramble sensors?
please tell me?
i mean, wtf? double epts, double HE, double ET? wtf?
i have higher HE, higher TSS, can cary a higher ET, AND have room for jam+sramble and polarize and and and.........
no reason. I have no clue, why every healer think, they NEED doubled skills to be effective......
and, like Antonio said completely right, i have a team which is supporting me with TT, or i can use it myself in future, i will never, never, never, never really need a RSP.
in my last 2 matches this evening, i reached more than 3k HPS, without any doubled skill.......look at Leaderboards, if you want...... (@idiian)
Engi recluses where already pretty much unkillable. So this doesn't change to much for them. Last I remember playing with some of the top Recluse guys like Rhino... he only died if he had to get up to answer the phone or something.
What it WILL change is this.
Right now You pick a target and you go hard on them... idea being you try really hard to all attack at the same time and pop someone in 2-3s tops. The current meta... the Dual vape attack.
After this change... You attack one target... healer throws ET3 + ST + SIF on them... and more then likely 2-3 other players on the team also unload a tac team and perhaps another sci team what ever. Target lives.
Oh no now what....
Swap to target 2... and you have 12-14s to smoke them as everyone just threw there teams on the first target... and likely they are all running 20% less resistance imparting heals... so guess what.
Target 2 drops like a wet noodle.
This change doesn't really add much in terms of HPS to a team, as people are trading other heals to slot extra teams. (yes ok the recluse doesn't have to but so what they are still more front loaded heal wise now).
This just moves the cycle of healing... where as before you had a nice even HPS over an encounter with a small bump when healers are trying to catch a spike... NOW if a team was to build to Spike heal... they are no doubt getting a better spike heal... but they are getting there by dropping there HPS for the next 14s after they spike off all there team skills.
This is why I stand by this won't change much of anything outside of pug matches.
Well hey patch is only hours away really... guess we will have a better idea in a few days.
why i should double skills, when i have a Photonic Officer 3, which allow me, to have another useful skills like jam and sramble sensors?
please tell me?
i mean, wtf? double epts, double HE, double ET? wtf?
i have higher HE, higher TSS, can cary a higher ET, AND have room for jam+sramble and polarize and and and.........
no reason. I have no clue, why every healer think, they NEED doubled skills to be effective......
in my last 2 matches this evening, i reached more than 3k HPS, without any doubled skill.......look at Leaderboards, if you want......
PO3 is very unreliable, cooldown is too long even with MACO 2 piece and a elite deflector it doesn't work good enough. I don't sci spam as a healer, mine isn't even specced in countermeasures because its specced mainly in heals, power levels and durability. Why Jam when someone can't even kill you?
I was just giving an example of a build that can spam all teams at global while at the same time still be able to use almost all other heal skills at global, and be more unkillable then that sci heavy build
After this change... You attack one target... healer throws ET3 + ST + SIF on them... and more then likely 2-3 other players on the team also unload a tac team and perhaps another sci team what ever. Target lives.
Oh no now what....
Swap to target 2... and you have 12-14s to smoke them as everyone just threw there teams on the first target... and likely they are all running 20% less resistance imparting heals... so guess what.
PO3 is very unreliable, cooldown is too long even with MACO 2 piece and a elite deflector it doesn't work good enough. I don't sci spam as a healer, mine isn't even specced in countermeasures because its specced mainly in heals, power levels and durability. Why Jam when someone can't even kill you?
I was just giving an example of a build that can spam all teams at global while at the same time still be able to use almost all other heal skills at global, and be more unkillable then that sci heavy build
you don´t need a Maco ^^ Photonic Studies Scientist Doff in Purple. So, i can still spam Heals on Global when PO is active, and if he isn´t, i can lower the Damage on my team with scrambling the main damage dealer of the enemy team......
There is just another think behind my build than yours, but there will be no big change in HPS to others after that Patch. Like i said, i´m thinking about to replace Aux2Sif2 for ET3, but don´t like the idea very much......
a skilled jam is the same effective as an RSP, but RSP can nuked away..........
Jamming my Target which is attacking me, means, that he have to search another target, which i´m healing...... and i have a window to save my TRIBBLE........
i use PO3 since i start the game 7 weeks ago and began to learn how to pvp, and i´m happy with him, cause i have room for other useful skills and can put out many heals too, over long matches .....
look at your example, you have 2 Times HE1, i have one HE2, and so on.......
and i don´t think, that this build is more unkillable, one nuke is enough, to kill your RSP, and then you are not better than me, but you have no scramble, no polarize, no jam.......whats then?
Have really no clue, why all of you think, RSP is a "must have" for a healer, and doubled skills are needed to be effective.....
Actually I think this tactic only works now, but won't work after the patch. In your example, you didn't burn enough team abilities and resists.
Also, too many people have been using this tactic, even in pugs... It's nothing new.
Ya target swapping has been a staple of high end pvp for a good while now. It does work now... however I think lately people have been just running more Vape instead.
I could be wrong but I am thinking that this change is going to once again favor the All cannon escorts the "super bug" builds that are able to continue to put out the hurt all the time with very little gaps.
Myself I am thinking a team with one Hybrid vape. (a cloaker that can stick around for 15-20s at least)... with a traditional escort "bug style cannons". Cloaker decloaks on target team pushes hard and gets the other side to spike hard enough to save and hopefully a bit extra. Doing that should make the next target even easier to get then before. (unless people just don't change there builds much). I have a feeling that after a week or two of playing around with the changes many people will go back to there standard builds and give up on the idea of lots of teams... accept for the few dedicated healers that may try to work in the extra spike heal. (they are going to have to play smart to make it work though imo)
you don´t need a Maco ^^ Photonic Studies Scientist Doff in Purple. So, i can still spam Heals on Global when PO is active, and if he isn´t, i can lower the Damage on my team with scrambling the main damage dealer of the enemy team......
There is just another think behind my build than yours, but there will be no big change in HPS to others after that Patch. Like i said, i´m thinking about to replace Aux2Sif2 for ET3, but don´t like the idea very much......
a skilled jam is the same effective as an RSP, but RSP can nuked away..........
Jamming my Target which is attacking me, means, that he have to search another target, which i´m healing...... and i have a window to save my TRIBBLE........
i use PO3 since i start the game 7 weeks ago and began to learn how to pvp, and i´m happy with him, cause i have room for other useful skills and can put out many heals too, over long matches .....
look at your example, you have 2 Times HE1, i have one HE2, and so on.......
and i don´t think, that this build is more unkillable, one nuke is enough, to kill your RSP, and then you are not better than me, but you have no scramble, no polarize, no jam.......whats then?
Have really no clue, why all of you think, RSP is a "must have" for a healer, and doubled skills are needed to be effective.....
I meant using it with 3 purple photonic doffs also, I assumed that was a given when using PO3. With the 3 doffs, 2 pc MACO and elite deflector you still can't keep teams at global cooldown. Then after PO3 wheres off you have a 30 sec window or more before its up again. That build won't take advantage of the changes as much as a build like mine.
Antoniosalieri you keep saying this won't change much or that science attack are not that much worse off - better timing - lol - you mean expert timing in a tight premade group. The survival of pvp in this game depends on new people and they go to pug matches and cap n hold. Sorry but that is going to be a nightmare come tomorrow. Come a few weeks pug matches will be virtually dead after all the stomping from invinsible veteran players. Your living in a cryptic delusion if you don't think this is just another death blow to pvp in sto.
Comments
The extra sci team will be handy on a premade sure... but this isn't anything you couldn't be running now.
I mean where is the issue with this build I don't get it. Yes its cute that you plan to use a cheese click console to reset your photonic officer. Again this isn't really any different for a premade then what can be done now. Its not like super engi team healers in premades don't work now... adding an extra sci team clear... ya ok ... right now a premade healer might bring it and rarely use it. Who cares... its not like one ship setup this way is going to do a much better job of team healing then what can already be done..
All this does is improve heal boats in places like Pug Arenas and Kerrat. So what really. Again any half decent premade isn't lacking on tac teams or sci teams... the only thing these types of builds may do is make them viable when your team mates are strangers and in general suck.
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Let me clarify something, I don't play in premades and I don't own a Recluse, nor do I intend to get one and a super healer. That sketch, as I called it, was just that. I am not accustomed to use cheese in my builds, not wired to think that way. It wouldn't surprise me if cheesy premades look at this sketch and say : "WTF, this is BS!" By all means, run with it. I put it together in under 3 minutes, just guessing what a premade would need and how to exploit the expected changes to Team Skills.
Anyway, I think I made my point. As far as I can see, there is only one obstinate left in this thread but, I really couldn't care because if someone wants to insist the Earth is flat because they are a member of Flat Earth Society, there is simply nothing I can do about that.
allright man, have fun in cruser online !
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That is sort of what I am saying though... this isn't areally a great premade build even with all those teams at global.
Healers running tac team in premades... not needed at all. If one of my healers calls for a tac team he gets one just as fast as if I call for a sci team I get one from him.
The only way I can see this effecting premades... is more running an engi team then perhaps are right now. Truth is though most premades do have one healer with an engi team. It helps catch the spikes from vapers. What it doesn't do much of is heal. Really the healing is coming from other skills.
For a premade healer Tac team isn't really needed... and every premade is already packing at least 2 sci teams at global. So this change really doens't effect them.
They are not going to start running Sci teams or Engi teams on there escorts / Vapers.
They are not really gaining much by getting 1-3 extra low level engi and sci teams.
So for premade play this change will have very little impact as I see it.
The Sketch you threw up there is a great pugging build now. I never take my healer toons out to pug with... why because people run from your heals they don't stick around... they don't tac team you when you really need it after saving them from a vape. All this change does is let me take a healer (somewhat setup like you are talking) into the pug ques... and not want to claw my own eyes out.
If the standard kirk style cruisers start carrying an extra sci team and clear each other... or even manage to bring a Engi team 1 along at least they can in fact use them on there team mates with out thinking oh no my tac team rotation will get messed up I an't helping that guy.
This change will boost pugs and people flying around kerrat no doubt. Still it does it at a cost... because outside of the recluse (which is obviously a heal boat and no threat on its own) giving up resist heavy skills in favor of them... or even doffs that boost the resist heals is just not really that great.
Front load heal with teams... or offer all ways up protection roles with resist heals. This change will allow you to dream up some hybrid heal designs... but it will hardly unbalance the game.
lol !
true super Healer!
hopefully i not have someone with those build in my team ...... epic fail
btw. i fly a recluse myself, with PO, but no need there for a A2B whatever ..... your HPS you will run with this build, will be much lower than mine, very much!
This build will not heal that effective.
And you put it on a cruiser, they are going to be even more zombie than before.
I can see some of the attraction to it, but I dont think its going to be good for gameplay overall.
If they are going to be instant heals then they need to be spread out like RSP is spread out. That's what the shared cooldown lockout did.
I think it will help premade healers a lot too by letting the them run ET3 and ST3, it will make healers in general OP and is a nerf to non healboats, it will make pug and premade matches take longer too.
Every 15s ?
Yes there is a possibility with Lt Cmd sci escorts... to perhaps run a sci team... but if you want to run sci team 3 you are giving up on trying to do more dmg with your sci slots... making you well less of a threat to sub nuke in the first place.
Or are you planning to run a ST 1... in which case the heal isn't really that strong doesn't impart any resist at all. You could I guess run TSS 3 instead and ST 1... or Hazards 3 but you are still giving up dmg... and not doing what an escort should be doing.
I do agree with you though this could open SOME interesting options for some ships... still its going to make more sense when you are flying solo with no back up.
With 3 engi stations again in an escort... if you have 3 engi stations is it worth not running aux to damp ? really for an engi team ? that you would also have to use up 2 of your doff spaces to make effective at all. If you have an escort with 4 slots.... I guess perhaps running an engi team 1 might make sense... still are you really going to doff it... seems dumb to me.
Or people will realize just how not so great engi team really is. lol
No resistance ... clears debuffs that are hardly ever used... and only really heals 10k+ if you yes run version 3 using up a LT cmd slot.. and commit to it with consoles.
Yes we will see more premades running Engi team 1s and 2s... with 7-8k being the average heal. You tell me in terms of healing sustained dmg is that any good at all ?
All it will help with is helping catch vape attacks ... and that imo is just fine, and a good change.
I could be wrong of course... I just don't see healers who are already pretty loaded up with doffs trading to more doff slots just to run a Engi team.
Engi team is just weak out side of helping catch spike.
It's not limited to LtCmdr sci, you can do it with 2+1 station layout too. PH1/ST2 + HE1. And you arent giving up much, like I said most of those are looking at tractor beam or duplicate HE or maybe TSS2.
Maybe, it depends. Some people run RSP1 some pepole run AtD1 some people like me slot 2 + 3 layout and run 5 engi on a T'varo
mimimimi
the message is too short
Just to give you a idea:
my Recluse has:
Photonic Officer 3, Sci Team 3, TSS3, HE2, Aux2Sif2 and Extend Shields 1
The only change for me will be, that now i can use my tactic team on my self, without blocking my best heal for my mates or myself, and so i´m not killed such easy like you want to do.....
that means, you just have to stay at one side of me, shooting through a one timed opened shield side directly on my hull, while i´m trying to manully distribute my shields, just to have Science Team 3 for my own.... now i can use Tac-Team, and can heal myself, and YOU have too shoot all of my 4 Shield Sides down, before you can get to my hull......
for my self, i´m thinking about replacing Aux2Sif2 for Eng Team 3, but i prefer Resistance Healing.....so i think, i will stay with Aux2Sif2 and not replacing it.....
So, i think, you are only afraid you are not able to take such easy kills in future, nothing more
thx to antonio, seems he is the only one, who is caught the point....
Well I guess we will have to see after the change if dropping a TSS is worth it for a sci team. I will agree that in pug situations that is likely the case... always good to be able to clear nukes yourself. In a team game though I think the healer would rather you have a higher shield resistance. I guess we will see how it shakes out when it happens tommorow. I just don't see any premade escorts dropping resistance skills in favor of a weak (mostly undoffed) science team or engi team.
I guess if you have so so escort doffs anyway... pehraps doffing a team will be worth it. I am just thinking of the top players I know and there builds... and I don't see how dumping there Attack Pattern doffs... or reducing there number of dmg control doffs... or not running aux to damp would be a good idea.
Escort wise... think about the doffs you really can't afford to drop.
- 2-3 Dmg control doffs you can't run less then 2
- Attack Pattern Doffs... I know some people don't have them but Omega 3 up 50% of the time most hard core long time escort jocks have 2... won't be taking those off.
- Aux to Damp doff... 2 Free armor consoles... 2 free RCS consoles... 50% of a EPTE speed boost... 1 free Kinetic Resist console... and Immunity to TBR, GW, and Grav Torp rifts. Uptime with the doff around 80%... crazy to drop that to doff an Engi team of any level.
- Warp Core cleanse doff... Some people won't run them on princible... but many do... and they won't be dropping them to doff engi team.
With that list of High end Escort build doffs... it makes zero sense to try and doff a sci or engi team imo.
Cruisers have to drop resists which they can hardly afford to do with there slow nature and defense issues.
Sci ships... only ships like pallisade and wells I think may possibly have some room to add in Engi teams and doff them... I'm just not sure it is really all that needed in the game right now. Although with the number of people trying to run "vape" builds I don't think throwing a few more healers with a bit more spike HPS is game breaking. By doing that imo they give up some possible CC options in there own builds... or some extra resistance based heals.
I think it is only really viable on a few ships to run multiple doffed up team heals... and in those cases it makes them stronger catching spike and weaker dealing with pressure. So I don't see it as being a doom and gloom situation that many are making out.
This illustrates my point.
In any premade you wouldn't need a tac team yourself because good escort pilots SHOULD be able to help you. When you call for a tac team you should pretty much get one instantly.
However if you are flying with less experienced players or complete pug groups. You are now not relying on them because someone baited you by switching target to you after you just saved someone else.
This is a great change for pugs if they play with the right attitude and use there teams to help teammates... before the change doing so did put you in a tight spot... and yes any vet player knew that and took advantage of it.
I play all ship types and classes and have an eng recluse and it will be spamming both ET3 and ST3 because I use the uni as eng like most healers do, I am not worried about not being able to kill you, you cant even keep epts up full time with your build, there will always be opportunities to kill a build like that. If you are worried about using TT on yourself I can already tell you aren't on a helpful team so there is no way you have a chance on a build that can't keep epts up full time. I am worried about not being able to kill builds like mine, not yours.
i can keep up epts with a little downtime between, which i can fill up with other skills. I´m engineer and use the Universal Slot on my Recluse with a Sci Cmdr.
I think, you are worry about there is no way to kill Builds like yours, so i think, you have RSP at your build, which givin you a extra window. I can tank pretty good without.
Until yet, i didn´t need to "spam" ET and ST
ok, look at this:
Your Team with 2 Tac and 2 Sci against a other Team with 1 Recluse Healer with my Build, only change will be the replace of Aux2Sif2 against ET3
You attacking Target 1, i give him ST3 and ET3
You switch to Target 2, i give him Extend 1 + TSS3
You switch again to Target 1, i give him HE2
now nuke Target 1 the first time, i give him ST3 and ET3 again
nuke him again!
NOW you have a at least 10 Seconds Window to burst him down. The Damage good Escorts can do, is way enough to kill one target in 10 Seconds, while i only can look how you kill my mate.
So, you think this will be a major Change? this won´t be, you just have to time it better and coordinate better than before, and there will be a increas in Time to Kill yes.......
Or when new threads get started with titles like .
"Engi Team needs a buff"
or
"Why does engi team suck so much"
As for premades being to slow with the tac teams....
Well there it is... half the games premades just learned why they have a hard time beating the games top teams.
I guess they are getting a buff along with the pugs.
TT1
EPTS1, ET2, ES2, Aux2SIF3
EPTS1, RSP1, ET3
HE1, TSS2, ST3
HE1
doffs, 1 Aux2SIF heal doffs, 2 ST doffs, 2 TT doffs, 1 cleanse doff
even more unkillable when in kerrat and you can drop an extends for another RSP or downgrade ET3 to 2 and bump EPTS up to 3
why i should double skills, when i have a Photonic Officer 3, which allow me, to have another useful skills like jam and sramble sensors?
please tell me?
i mean, wtf? double epts, double HE, double ET? wtf?
i have higher HE, higher TSS, can cary a higher ET, AND have room for jam+sramble and polarize and and and.........
no reason. I have no clue, why every healer think, they NEED doubled skills to be effective......
and, like Antonio said completely right, i have a team which is supporting me with TT, or i can use it myself in future, i will never, never, never, never really need a RSP.
in my last 2 matches this evening, i reached more than 3k HPS, without any doubled skill.......look at Leaderboards, if you want...... (@idiian)
What it WILL change is this.
Right now You pick a target and you go hard on them... idea being you try really hard to all attack at the same time and pop someone in 2-3s tops. The current meta... the Dual vape attack.
After this change... You attack one target... healer throws ET3 + ST + SIF on them... and more then likely 2-3 other players on the team also unload a tac team and perhaps another sci team what ever. Target lives.
Oh no now what....
Swap to target 2... and you have 12-14s to smoke them as everyone just threw there teams on the first target... and likely they are all running 20% less resistance imparting heals... so guess what.
Target 2 drops like a wet noodle.
This change doesn't really add much in terms of HPS to a team, as people are trading other heals to slot extra teams. (yes ok the recluse doesn't have to but so what they are still more front loaded heal wise now).
This just moves the cycle of healing... where as before you had a nice even HPS over an encounter with a small bump when healers are trying to catch a spike... NOW if a team was to build to Spike heal... they are no doubt getting a better spike heal... but they are getting there by dropping there HPS for the next 14s after they spike off all there team skills.
This is why I stand by this won't change much of anything outside of pug matches.
Well hey patch is only hours away really... guess we will have a better idea in a few days.
PO3 is very unreliable, cooldown is too long even with MACO 2 piece and a elite deflector it doesn't work good enough. I don't sci spam as a healer, mine isn't even specced in countermeasures because its specced mainly in heals, power levels and durability. Why Jam when someone can't even kill you?
I was just giving an example of a build that can spam all teams at global while at the same time still be able to use almost all other heal skills at global, and be more unkillable then that sci heavy build
thats exactly what i said before
you don´t need a Maco ^^ Photonic Studies Scientist Doff in Purple. So, i can still spam Heals on Global when PO is active, and if he isn´t, i can lower the Damage on my team with scrambling the main damage dealer of the enemy team......
There is just another think behind my build than yours, but there will be no big change in HPS to others after that Patch. Like i said, i´m thinking about to replace Aux2Sif2 for ET3, but don´t like the idea very much......
a skilled jam is the same effective as an RSP, but RSP can nuked away..........
Jamming my Target which is attacking me, means, that he have to search another target, which i´m healing...... and i have a window to save my TRIBBLE........
i use PO3 since i start the game 7 weeks ago and began to learn how to pvp, and i´m happy with him, cause i have room for other useful skills and can put out many heals too, over long matches .....
look at your example, you have 2 Times HE1, i have one HE2, and so on.......
and i don´t think, that this build is more unkillable, one nuke is enough, to kill your RSP, and then you are not better than me, but you have no scramble, no polarize, no jam.......whats then?
Have really no clue, why all of you think, RSP is a "must have" for a healer, and doubled skills are needed to be effective.....
Ya target swapping has been a staple of high end pvp for a good while now. It does work now... however I think lately people have been just running more Vape instead.
I could be wrong but I am thinking that this change is going to once again favor the All cannon escorts the "super bug" builds that are able to continue to put out the hurt all the time with very little gaps.
Myself I am thinking a team with one Hybrid vape. (a cloaker that can stick around for 15-20s at least)... with a traditional escort "bug style cannons". Cloaker decloaks on target team pushes hard and gets the other side to spike hard enough to save and hopefully a bit extra. Doing that should make the next target even easier to get then before. (unless people just don't change there builds much). I have a feeling that after a week or two of playing around with the changes many people will go back to there standard builds and give up on the idea of lots of teams... accept for the few dedicated healers that may try to work in the extra spike heal. (they are going to have to play smart to make it work though imo)
I meant using it with 3 purple photonic doffs also, I assumed that was a given when using PO3. With the 3 doffs, 2 pc MACO and elite deflector you still can't keep teams at global cooldown. Then after PO3 wheres off you have a 30 sec window or more before its up again. That build won't take advantage of the changes as much as a build like mine.