So anyone can basically with wce doff have 100% immunity to sci captain abilities and almost 100% immunity to the attacks from 2 Sci captains??
Pvp is officially dead to me and is becoming more of a sad joke with every passing day. Cryptic is removing pvp via attrition of the player base. Good strategy - seems to be working as intended.
I like using Siphons and Tyken's which are cleared by HE and ST. This damn change will make drain builds completely obsolete. I might as well go build a FAW a2b ship or a vaper since it's all that's left to do after this junk goes live.
Cm. Tac: TT 1, CRF 1, APO 1, APO 3
Ltc. Tac: TT 1, BO 2, CRF 2 Lt. Uni (sci): TSS 1, HE 2
Lt. Uni (sci): TB 1, HE 2 Ens. Eng: EPtS 1 (with CD doffs)
Now replace the TSS and TB with ST 1. Replace the EPtS with ET 1.
Yeah.
Not saying your idea is bad but I can't believe you been feeling ok with just the one EPTS even with doffs. Personly I would switch what you are doing to this.
TT1 - CRF 1 - APO 1 - APO 3
TT 1 - BO 2 - CRF 2
EPTE 1 - Aux to Damp 1
EPTS 1
ST 1 - HZ 2
That way you get 2 kicks at the EPTx doffs... you can still run your ST 1 clear. lol
Having a tractor is nice and all I just can'e imagine only running with a Ensign engi.
My JHAS. A tanky, damaging beast with around 50k hull. Currently looks like this:
....
Now replace the TSS and TB with ST 1. Replace the EPtS with ET 1.
Yeah.
No matter how u set up the escort, it will be useless. You won't kill a target using an escort when he can use tt+et+st, forget about it. My jem'hadar won't leave the hangar again. This is now vape or fail, no other option.
I like using Siphons and Tyken's which are cleared by HE and ST. This damn change will make drain builds completely obsolete. I might as well go build a FAW a2b ship or a vaper since it's all that's left to do after this junk goes live.
The removal of Team GCDs makes ET & ST viable now. On the flip side is that defenses & repairs will skyrocket. There are already builds that can take a pretty good pounding, but to now have the massive repairs of ET & ST while still cycling TT? On top of the other heals like HE, TSS, ASIF? It's going to be pretty crazy.
I am simply going to take a break from all this. Thought about writing to the Dev about the consequences as there were substantial amount of both cheers and panic in OPvP tonight but decided not to. From a Science's perspective, this is a major nerf, even if it may be unintended. Take your pic, VM, JS, SS, Subnuke and etc. can all be cleared at once. Disable / Drain / Jamming / Scrambling builds all go out of the window with this, coupled with the broken Keel'el which is proc at near 100% as opposed to the intended 40% rate, it really becomes Vapers Online and nothing else.
I am simply going to take a break from all this. Thought about writing to the Dev about the consequences as there were substantial amount of both cheers and panic in OPvP tonight but decided not to. From a Science's perspective, this is a major nerf, even if it may be unintended. Take your pic, VM, JS, SS, Subnuke and etc. can all be cleared at once. Disable / Drain / Jamming / Scrambling builds all go out of the window with this, coupled with the broken Keel'el which is proc at near 100% as opposed to the intended 40% rate, it really becomes Vapers Online and nothing else.
Well the doff needs looked at that is an entirely different issue. Frankly I find 40% a bit silly myself its a doff that shouldn't exist really.
As for this hurting sci... I am sorry I still don't see it.
Will there be more clears up more often... yes but so what. Frankly the game has been science online for 4 years in terms of Premades. That isn't going to change either.
As for pug players playing science ships they just got 10x better unless they are really really bad.
The entire "vaper" thing could be solved with a simple 15s global on any activation of ANY console / Set ability. If it is added by gear it should share a gear cool down. Just long enough so people are not decloaking with Proton Barrage + ISO + what ever other cheese they feel like dropping an armor console for.
I honestly see this change as a good thing for the game... as long as they are not DONE here with tweaking things.
Its not a long list though...
1) institute gear cool down
2) fix broken proc doff
Its not that hard to fix.
As far as VM and SS.... yes you now have to in fact watch peoples buffs before you Spam some sci skills on them. I am fine with that and yes I do play sci quite often. Frankly this game has gotten more and more mindless... having to in fact think before you use a CC skill isn't a bad thing.
I don't see this change effecting things as much as some people seem to think... sure there will be more people running 2 teams instead of just the 1... but the ONLY people that gained under the old system where premades. I don't need to carry tac teams on my science ships cause I have escort friends with me that will cover me... I don't have to carry sci teams on my escorts either same deal.
So a pugging escort gives up one extra tractor break (PH) for an anti Sub Nuke.... or a long term hot shield heal like TSS... that isn't game breaking... and changes nothing at all in a pug match.
DItto on the cruiser...
Where you really worried about chucking VMs on cruisers ? They where not my first target for a VM.
Any ship that can benifit most from carrying the extra clears is going to open themselves up elsewhere. Escorts running Engi team cool no aux to damp means GW when Omega is down... They have Sci team for you nukes... cool Tractor them when omega is down.
The only ship I see an issue with on this one is A2B cruisers who now have went from 2 team skills to 6.
It is perhaps High time for Cryptic to do what they have lacked the Balls to do for awhile now. Its time Tech doffs got reduced to 5% reductions instead of 10%.... OR for a2b to be put BACK on the EPTx sub system.
Well the doff needs looked at that is an entirely different issue. Frankly I find 40% a bit silly myself its a doff that shouldn't exist really.
As for this hurting sci... I am sorry I still don't see it.
Will there be more clears up more often... yes but so what. Frankly the game has been science online for 4 years in terms of Premades. That isn't going to change either.
All the Sci PvPers I know are fuming mad, lucho, newromulan, just to name a few. The so called "I sometimes play Sci" crowd such as yourself doesn't count, just as someone who was claiming that Sensor Analysis was useless in OPvP today, until he was shown how to actually use it.
My sometimes playing sci is likely around 1000 hours more then 95% of the "science" players in this game. I'm not talking out my back side.
Pointing to the terrible synergy with A2B Tech doffs is correct... and I agree that is a major issue.
However is the issue teams not being on a shared cool down... OR is the issue there the fact that Cryptic has added to there deck a trump doff.
A doff that is clearly more powerful then the rest.
The issue is Tech doffs and how they work with A2B. This change will highlight that they are super broken no doubt.
The fix is to give the PvE community with the team change... and balance it out by at last having the fortitude to in fact FIX something THEY know is broken.
A2B either needs to be put back on the EPTx cool down system.
OR reduce the effective numbers on the Tech doffs.
That is the real issue here... if cruisers had to choose like everyone else which 2 team abilities they where going to juice this would be fine. Sure cruisers could still run all 3 pretty easy build wise but its the doffs that let them double all 3 that is the issue.
Really I would almost rather they really grow a pair and just change what the tech doffs do completely. They SHOULD... be a 40% chance to proc +100 aux power. Now that would be interesting with out being OP. (people could still get there super power weapon overcapping... and with 3 doffs be at max aux power as well... BUT NOT be running 2 copies of everything)
Am I the only one who thinks that uncoupling EPtX powers instead of teams would have been better for the Galaxy and at the same time had less impact on PVP as a whole?
I'm very surprised that no one has pointed out that ET and ST both function independently of Auxiliary power... And therefore are chainable by Aux to Battery ships without any obvious penalty.
Am I the only one who thinks that uncoupling EPtX powers instead of teams would have been better for the Galaxy and at the same time had less impact on PVP as a whole?
Maybe.
I see that this is a big change for PvP. i used to think the bigger component of SNB was always that it removed all ongoing buffs instantly, not necessarily that it increased cooldowns. So I am not sure that science is dead yet. One thing to consider is that you can't install the team poweres for free - you still have to sacrifice one or two BO slots for them. If people start sacrificing HE or TSS for an ST, it might open the opportunity for other powers (EWP, Aceton Beam, Tachyon Beam, Charged Particle Burst?).
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I don't have to worry about Sci team effing with my tact team?!
( As a person who uses 5 MK XII purple SIF consoles, I think my voth 'bulwark' will be invincible soon.... H.E. III, H.E.II, Aux2SIF II, and Aux2SIF III.... As a KDF healer I'm very happy! My Borg set heals like "Hazard Emitters V." Most importantly I can use engineering team now! Can't wait to help my KDF allies. )
Hmmm, seems like this is a slight blow to the Subnucleonic beam. Sci team will always be ready when people use tact team/engie team. On the bright side antimatter spread can be removed faster without teams sharing cool downs. Pretty big change to PVP...:)
The dress is gold and white. Over 70% people says so. When viewed from a certain screen angle it appears blue and black. The dress displayed on amazon is a blue and black dress, but it's not the same dress in the picture. If you're seeing blue & black you're slightly colored blind. A normal upright screen = white and gold.
Am I the only one who thinks that uncoupling EPtX powers instead of teams would have been better for the Galaxy and at the same time had less impact on PVP as a whole?
I was thinking that too... but I'm not a big fan of the +40 speed boost for epte1..I would rather see it at +10.
I guess we'll have to see how it goes....good thing my science toon is all exotic/kinetic.
I like this and see it as really a buff to all cruisers, a lot of them have more then one ensign eng slot and the only thing that could go in them was either et or eptx. ET was no real option when the need to use tt. So to me this just gives greater options for them to have useful skills.
I have never had a problem filling ensign tac slots, never had a problem with sci ensign slots. Eng tho have had a major problem with at times. I think this will help with that. Tho the better solution imo is to look at eng and give it a overhaul. It's ensign slots, even after this are too limited in options imo. It's commander slots are too limited imo. Too many skills it has that are of questionable to no value at all.
I am very dubious about this change. Between Kaleel and the new unlinked teams, I can see science debuffing becoming a dying breed, not three months after its big comeback
That being said, healtanks are going to be monstrous again, as will any form of crosshealing.
I dont know if its going to affect vaping any, but as far as old team setups and conventional tournament groups go, this is going to be a major shift, and not necessarily a good one.
I have a strong suspicion this is going to turn out very badly for PvP overall.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
The 15 second global was too much, but no GCD is even worse. The perfect GCD would be 10s between dissimilar team abilities -- enough to encourage taking more than one type of team ability without breaking the game.
if healing went to crazy levels you should see damage/faw.:rolleyes:
Now cut cross healing powers all of them by ................50%.............. and cyrptic may be going into the right way
Overpowered team healers are one of the biggest problems
Also
cut team power 1 by 75%........sci team 1 for example
cut team poweer 2 bt 50%......eng team 2 for example
leave Team 3 powers as they are putting those skills as a powerful skill in the ships that have them
Eng ships with 2 lt cmdr eng ineering skills
Science ship with 2 lt cmdr science skills
So these ships become the ships they were ment to be
escorts get by just fine with ensign and Lt skills and do not need support from sci ships or engineering ships because these low level skills are so overpowered
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
( As a person who uses 5 MK XII purple SIF consoles, I think my voth 'bulwark' will be invincible soon.... H.E. III, H.E.II, Aux2SIF II, and Aux2SIF III.... As a KDF healer I'm very happy! My Borg set heals like "Hazard Emitters V." Most importantly I can use engineering team now! Can't wait to help my KDF allies. )
Oh noes , the Queen becomes even more invincible, hahaha. Fun FBP tetris at Ker'rat yesterday
I am very dubious about this change. Between Kaleel and the new unlinked teams, I can see science debuffing becoming a dying breed, not three months after its big comeback
That being said, healtanks are going to be monstrous again, as will any form of crosshealing.
I dont know if its going to affect vaping any, but as far as old team setups and conventional tournament groups go, this is going to be a major shift, and not necessarily a good one.
I have a strong suspicion this is going to turn out very badly for PvP overall.
More or less my thoughts. I can't explain, but I'm quite reluctant to see if it'll actually turns out to be an improvement. We'll see.
That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.
The entire "vaper" thing could be solved with a simple 15s global on any activation of ANY console / Set ability. If it is added by gear it should share a gear cool down. Just long enough so people are not decloaking with Proton Barrage + ISO + what ever other cheese they feel like dropping an armor console for.
This plz... it would break my dyson destroyer build but i know its op and its not even fun anymore... (ps3, proton barrage, the proton beam, iso, dem and bo shield pen doffs all the way)...
also im afraid of what tt/st team spinning would do... st needs a 'lil nerf into its science debuff cleanse... i mean, subnuc would only do half of its potential (the cd debuff would be like - ???), sensor scan wouldnt even do nothing (and dont come with the "st cd window"... because we all know it still sucks the same, otherwise all cruiser folks would have aceton beam :> - hazard's cd window)... ...not talking about js, ss, all other sci stuff... afff... think about this, would you like tt to magically clear your apa ? lol... pretty much the same
aaaand et clearing vm...
a big applause to all the scis who still manage to kill and survive better than lots of guys (tacs)
i think devs should schedule this update to next week, to discuss and plan this better, even tough this will kinda break stuff, i think its a good start to the so called "balance" in pvp
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Achiever Killers often look to 1v1 duels for proof of their superior play and are frustrated by "rock paper scissor" game mechanics."
That's me !
Comments
I like using Siphons and Tyken's which are cleared by HE and ST. This damn change will make drain builds completely obsolete. I might as well go build a FAW a2b ship or a vaper since it's all that's left to do after this junk goes live.
Now for repair boats to actually be needed...
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Not saying your idea is bad but I can't believe you been feeling ok with just the one EPTS even with doffs. Personly I would switch what you are doing to this.
TT1 - CRF 1 - APO 1 - APO 3
TT 1 - BO 2 - CRF 2
EPTE 1 - Aux to Damp 1
EPTS 1
ST 1 - HZ 2
That way you get 2 kicks at the EPTx doffs... you can still run your ST 1 clear. lol
Having a tractor is nice and all I just can'e imagine only running with a Ensign engi.
No matter how u set up the escort, it will be useless. You won't kill a target using an escort when he can use tt+et+st, forget about it. My jem'hadar won't leave the hangar again. This is now vape or fail, no other option.
you have a new use for you subnuke then :P
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
TT1 FAW2
ET1 AtB1 EPtS3 DEM3
EPtE1 AtB1 RSP2
ST1 TSS1
HE1
Bind Space: EPtS3, EPtE1, AtB1, AtB1, TT1, ET1, ST1, FAW2, DEM3
Hangar: Elite Danubes
Well the doff needs looked at that is an entirely different issue. Frankly I find 40% a bit silly myself its a doff that shouldn't exist really.
As for this hurting sci... I am sorry I still don't see it.
Will there be more clears up more often... yes but so what. Frankly the game has been science online for 4 years in terms of Premades. That isn't going to change either.
As for pug players playing science ships they just got 10x better unless they are really really bad.
The entire "vaper" thing could be solved with a simple 15s global on any activation of ANY console / Set ability. If it is added by gear it should share a gear cool down. Just long enough so people are not decloaking with Proton Barrage + ISO + what ever other cheese they feel like dropping an armor console for.
I honestly see this change as a good thing for the game... as long as they are not DONE here with tweaking things.
Its not a long list though...
1) institute gear cool down
2) fix broken proc doff
Its not that hard to fix.
As far as VM and SS.... yes you now have to in fact watch peoples buffs before you Spam some sci skills on them. I am fine with that and yes I do play sci quite often. Frankly this game has gotten more and more mindless... having to in fact think before you use a CC skill isn't a bad thing.
I don't see this change effecting things as much as some people seem to think... sure there will be more people running 2 teams instead of just the 1... but the ONLY people that gained under the old system where premades. I don't need to carry tac teams on my science ships cause I have escort friends with me that will cover me... I don't have to carry sci teams on my escorts either same deal.
So a pugging escort gives up one extra tractor break (PH) for an anti Sub Nuke.... or a long term hot shield heal like TSS... that isn't game breaking... and changes nothing at all in a pug match.
DItto on the cruiser...
Where you really worried about chucking VMs on cruisers ? They where not my first target for a VM.
Any ship that can benifit most from carrying the extra clears is going to open themselves up elsewhere. Escorts running Engi team cool no aux to damp means GW when Omega is down... They have Sci team for you nukes... cool Tractor them when omega is down.
The only ship I see an issue with on this one is A2B cruisers who now have went from 2 team skills to 6.
It is perhaps High time for Cryptic to do what they have lacked the Balls to do for awhile now. Its time Tech doffs got reduced to 5% reductions instead of 10%.... OR for a2b to be put BACK on the EPTx sub system.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=15491181&postcount=24
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=15491591&postcount=25
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=15492231&postcount=26
All the Sci PvPers I know are fuming mad, lucho, newromulan, just to name a few. The so called "I sometimes play Sci" crowd such as yourself doesn't count, just as someone who was claiming that Sensor Analysis was useless in OPvP today, until he was shown how to actually use it.
Pointing to the terrible synergy with A2B Tech doffs is correct... and I agree that is a major issue.
However is the issue teams not being on a shared cool down... OR is the issue there the fact that Cryptic has added to there deck a trump doff.
A doff that is clearly more powerful then the rest.
The issue is Tech doffs and how they work with A2B. This change will highlight that they are super broken no doubt.
The fix is to give the PvE community with the team change... and balance it out by at last having the fortitude to in fact FIX something THEY know is broken.
A2B either needs to be put back on the EPTx cool down system.
OR reduce the effective numbers on the Tech doffs.
That is the real issue here... if cruisers had to choose like everyone else which 2 team abilities they where going to juice this would be fine. Sure cruisers could still run all 3 pretty easy build wise but its the doffs that let them double all 3 that is the issue.
Really I would almost rather they really grow a pair and just change what the tech doffs do completely. They SHOULD... be a 40% chance to proc +100 aux power. Now that would be interesting with out being OP. (people could still get there super power weapon overcapping... and with 3 doffs be at max aux power as well... BUT NOT be running 2 copies of everything)
HE1 or TSS2?
I see that this is a big change for PvP. i used to think the bigger component of SNB was always that it removed all ongoing buffs instantly, not necessarily that it increased cooldowns. So I am not sure that science is dead yet. One thing to consider is that you can't install the team poweres for free - you still have to sacrifice one or two BO slots for them. If people start sacrificing HE or TSS for an ST, it might open the opportunity for other powers (EWP, Aceton Beam, Tachyon Beam, Charged Particle Burst?).
( As a person who uses 5 MK XII purple SIF consoles, I think my voth 'bulwark' will be invincible soon.... H.E. III, H.E.II, Aux2SIF II, and Aux2SIF III.... As a KDF healer I'm very happy! My Borg set heals like "Hazard Emitters V." Most importantly I can use engineering team now! Can't wait to help my KDF allies. )
Hmmm, seems like this is a slight blow to the Subnucleonic beam. Sci team will always be ready when people use tact team/engie team. On the bright side antimatter spread can be removed faster without teams sharing cool downs. Pretty big change to PVP...:)
I was thinking that too... but I'm not a big fan of the +40 speed boost for epte1..I would rather see it at +10.
I guess we'll have to see how it goes....good thing my science toon is all exotic/kinetic.
I have never had a problem filling ensign tac slots, never had a problem with sci ensign slots. Eng tho have had a major problem with at times. I think this will help with that. Tho the better solution imo is to look at eng and give it a overhaul. It's ensign slots, even after this are too limited in options imo. It's commander slots are too limited imo. Too many skills it has that are of questionable to no value at all.
That being said, healtanks are going to be monstrous again, as will any form of crosshealing.
I dont know if its going to affect vaping any, but as far as old team setups and conventional tournament groups go, this is going to be a major shift, and not necessarily a good one.
I have a strong suspicion this is going to turn out very badly for PvP overall.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
if healing went to crazy levels you should see damage/faw.:rolleyes:
Overpowered team healers are one of the biggest problems
Also
cut team power 1 by 75%........sci team 1 for example
cut team poweer 2 bt 50%......eng team 2 for example
leave Team 3 powers as they are putting those skills as a powerful skill in the ships that have them
Eng ships with 2 lt cmdr eng ineering skills
Science ship with 2 lt cmdr science skills
So these ships become the ships they were ment to be
escorts get by just fine with ensign and Lt skills and do not need support from sci ships or engineering ships because these low level skills are so overpowered
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
More or less my thoughts. I can't explain, but I'm quite reluctant to see if it'll actually turns out to be an improvement. We'll see.
I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
This plz... it would break my dyson destroyer build but i know its op and its not even fun anymore... (ps3, proton barrage, the proton beam, iso, dem and bo shield pen doffs all the way)...
also im afraid of what tt/st team spinning would do... st needs a 'lil nerf into its science debuff cleanse... i mean, subnuc would only do half of its potential (the cd debuff would be like - ???), sensor scan wouldnt even do nothing (and dont come with the "st cd window"... because we all know it still sucks the same, otherwise all cruiser folks would have aceton beam :> - hazard's cd window)... ...not talking about js, ss, all other sci stuff... afff... think about this, would you like tt to magically clear your apa ? lol... pretty much the same
aaaand et clearing vm...
a big applause to all the scis who still manage to kill and survive better than lots of guys (tacs)
i think devs should schedule this update to next week, to discuss and plan this better, even tough this will kinda break stuff, i think its a good start to the so called "balance" in pvp
That's me !