Its not the individual abilities but now people will be stacking TSS+ST or ET... HE+ST+AUX2SIF.
The combinations that will be thrown to a teammate in need will be to a greater effect and not at the expense of the person throwing their heals.
So every ship is going to be bringing two copies of TT, two copies of EPtS 1, a copy of HE, and on top of that a copy of TSS, ST, AUX2SIF, and ET?
If all anyone brings to the gun fight is a bulletproof vest then sure no one will die. That is kinda obvious though.
People don't have unlimited boff ability slots, not even when running an A2B build. They will have to give up another ability to bring those be it an RSP, a DEM, a tractor beam, etc etc.
You're forgetting these no resist spiky heals are usually applied when other buffs are running, usually resists buffs... Most of the time. So a 15k ET isn't really 15k with resists running, it's a lot more than that. I could say it's equivalent to 60k. So yeah, healing just went through the roof.
In the universe where everyone got an extra couple bridge officer abilities this is true, yes. Unfortunately, I don't think that happened in ours.
You're forgetting these no resist spiky heals are usually applied when other buffs are running, usually resists buffs... Most of the time. So a 15k ET isn't really 15k with resists running, it's a lot more than that. I could say it's equivalent to 60k. So yeah, healing just went through the roof.
Who is going to have a 15k ET though....
15k engi team only happnes if you
1) dedicate a Lt Cmd slot to it
2) dedicate 2 boffs or are running a2b (which is in need of a nerf bat)
3) are running a bunch of consoles to back it up.
So you are saying people that where not running ET at all previous to this patch are all going to turn there builds into healers... dropping there RSPs... or DEMS... or running different ships completely and dumping there Omega 1s.
You can't with in all honesty tell me you think all the Lt Cmd Tac battle cruisers out there right now are going to start running high level engi teams. lol
As far as the Science teams... yes Cruisers (not counting the lt cmd sci heal heavy ones) and escorts are going to have to trade TSS 1 for it... which is a complete wash and likely a terrible idea in a premade situation where the sci guys are already there to clear them. This only makes sense for Pugging escorts and cruisers who may want to carry the sub nuke clear... agian though there is no WAY that any of them are going to run 2 science team doffs so its still a 30s heal it won't be 15s. (unless someone is stupid and wants to fly an escort that can't kill anything). The only people that have run 15k engi team 3 builds right now are premade cruisers that have escorts backing them with tac teams... is it really the end of the game if a few PUG cruisers in fact switch to more heal heavy team friendly builds ?
This change really doesn't change much of anything as I see it. It won't effect premades much at all... all it does is make it easier to play Pugging healer... and how is that a bad change.
The big winners here are ensign engineers and the big losers are sci debuffers that weren't already cleared by HE. Oh and possibly those Dyson Sci consoles but I doubt it.
ET clears viral matrix.
ST clears all sci other debuffs and subnuc beam.
They have to take out HE's ability to clear stuff like Energy Siphon or Tyken's Rift to balance things out for sci captains.
I'm just going to have to roll and try my hand at a sci healer, because they've thrown all other sci skills to the garbage with this change.
Im talking about a zombie healer. The Engineering Recluse carrier that heals their teammates and is virtually impossible to kill already if played properly. It takes a lot to kill mine (a coordinated multiple player/profession effort) and I just started doing it last month.
faw it or vape it....goes through rsp and kills it fast lol
ET clears viral matrix.
ST clears all sci other debuffs and subnuc beam.
They have to take out HE's ability to clear stuff like Energy Siphon or Tyken's Rift to balance things out for sci captains.
Hardly... watch peoples buff bars instead of just mashing your buttons when your cool downs are up.
This won't change much the way you play your scies... this won't change the effective nature of Sub nuke. Nuke is always about the buff clear... last I checked clearing the timers is a given in a premade fight... more clears don't make no difference. The fact that Nuke removes all buffs and sci team does NOT return them means its still the most effective way to win matches.
Hardly... watch peoples buff bars instead of just mashing your buttons when your cool downs are up.
This won't change much the way you play your scies... this won't change the effective nature of Sub nuke. Nuke is always about the buff clear... last I checked clearing the timers is a given in a premade fight... more clears don't make no difference. The fact that Nuke removes all buffs and sci team does NOT return them means its still the most effective way to win matches.
Science Online like it ever has been don't worry.
Well, I'll have to switch my drain tactics to targeting aux subsystems because it will be the only way of stopping a2b ships now.
Well, I'll have to switch my drain tactics to targeting aux subsystems because it will be the only way of stopping a2b ships now.
Well I guess if you keep an eye out for the engi teams cause you know it clears target subs.
Really though this doesn't change drain builds much at all... hazards is still the thing you have to watch for if you wanna drain someone.
The only extra clear people might have now is the ENgi ones... so you have to watch more if you are using VM... which I don't find is to popular right now anyway. Escorts should still be pretty easy VM bait anyway... they are just more likely to get a clear from a healing team mate then they where I guess. But I can't see to many escorts giving up aux to damp right now for a VM clear. Are they more likely to run into GW / Grav torp spam or get VMed ?
Granted what makes this a bit more interesting is how easy it is to change load outs now... I mean it was never hard to swap 2 engis on a ship to swap in one skill different... but it is even easier now to adapt on the fly I guess.
Yes but, before when you were subnuked you couldn't hit your ET and TT to take up the slack if you were fighting a sci and you'd just used ST, now you can. For sure Nuke is still going to be useful, just not as useful as before whereas timing is going to be ultra critical and in an arena with 3 other ships targeting you it's going to be nigh on impossible.
I suppose we have to wait and see, but to think they have done this entire change to make up for the freaking ridiculous decision of replacing the GX ensign tac with a uni and justify it by releasing the "ah well you didn't know what else we had planned did you" BS that this is, beggars belief. These really are people who have no humility at all, they need a visit from Q.
Yes it is a change to the meta... I look at it this way though.
Yes it will be easier to dump all your boff slots on one guy that is getting focuses. However if he gets 1 more engi team and one more sci team then he would have before... That team has just traded 2 boff slots of skill to heal the push target when that team rapid switches to one of the healers... or other escort which ever, they are now packing just a little bit less they can save the real target with.
This is a change to the meta... but I still don't see it being a major one.
Yes it will be easier to heal one target... but you are going to be trading skill that you where forced to hold before to heal the second push 10s later. (or if you where facing a team of say Pandas *cough* about 1s after you blow a ton of heals on that one guy).
The advantage to having things locked into cool downs before... was it forced people to hold stuff back. Yes I am going to be grinning ear to ear when I see one guy get 3 engi teams 3 sci teams and a couple spare tac teams in a premade match... I will be laughing out of that grin when we smoke someone completely different 2 seconds later.
I agree.
This is a good change. People are acting as if everyone would now magically get some additional free boff and doff slots to use all three teams all the time. That will not be the case.
Indeed the only real problem is Aux2Bat.
But, instead of nerfing Tech DOFFs, have you thought about the option of increasing the cooldown on Aux2Bat?
When thinking about what to do with that skill, both nerfing the tech doffs or not letting them stack appeared to be somewhat flawed. Not long ago I read a statement of someone claiming that three green tech doffs would work just fine with double A2B, due to activation lag or something. So nerfing them wouldn't even guarantee a fix, while unstacking them would TRIBBLE around with people's investment and actually either make the combo useless or even easier to set up.
So it occured to me that the problem with A2B might actually be the frequency. If it wouldn't reduce CDs every 10s, it would have a lot less impact, especially on low CD skills *cough* TT, ST, EN *cough*.
Imho it should have a duplicate cooldown of 30sec. That would make it a lot more timing critical. If that proves to be too much, try 20s. 10s is just too short.
I find it weird that Aux2Bat was utterly useless and then you add DOFFs and it becomes a must-have for some builds. That seems backward - the ability should be useful on its own and DOFFs should add something neat to it.
Even weirder is that Photonic Officer is supposed to be the cooldown reduction power...
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I hope when the devs come in to work in 15-45 minutes out there in CA, they take the time to address the player's concerns about this change. The sad part is, all changes to Tribble lately just make it to Holodeck, so there is probably no stopping this change from making it in.
The amount of survival in the game is not going to change by any significant amount from this change.
heal-over-time means you have a closing window of opportunity to finish the target. Instant heals are binary off. A2S and TSS are extended risk, team is a fresh start.
Also team heals can be chained every 15 seconds, whereas A2S and TSS cannot.
For Escorts I do not see much changing. With the cleanse doff and that most escorts run two EPtX SNB is not really an issue anymore, yeah you lose the buffs but its the extended CD that are the problems. But this will slow damage down and will bring the sci cruiser back as the choice ship for non spike damage role.
As for the 30% CritH and whatever CritD is that base or is that taking all weapons into account?
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
For Escorts I do not see much changing. With the cleanse doff and that most escorts run two EPtX SNB is not really an issue anymore, yeah you lose the buffs but its the extended CD that are the problems. But this will slow damage down and will bring the sci cruiser back as the choice ship for non spike damage role.
As for the 30% CritH and whatever CritD is that base or is that taking all weapons into account?
I hope when the devs come in to work in 15-45 minutes out there in CA, they take the time to address the player's concerns about this change. The sad part is, all changes to Tribble lately just make it to Holodeck, so there is probably no stopping this change from making it in.
lately? i been playing for years and they never rollback a tribble change before it reaches holodeck. From a software development perspective thats is correct, tribble is just a pre-production enviorment, is for test builds stability (by builds i mean software builds), no the effect of things in game.
30% CrtH and 137% CrtD, is that good enough for you?
On of our fleet mates Fleet Dehlan.
No point in having ultra high CrtD if you don't ever crit. It's chance that is the biggest factor in vaping not Severity. Think about it, I can decloak alpha with 100% CrtD which will double my BO3 damage potential to about 50K, however my CrtH is only 5%, hmm not a lot of chance of criting then in the first place. Now if I go in with 30% CrtH and 100% CrtD I have 6 times more chance of doubling my damage. Trust me, if you have 30% CrtH and 130% CrtD you're gonna Crit on your alpha and it's going to be an instakill.
there are far more effective vape builds with half of that critc. You just need to think outside of the classic build style. Anyway we are completely out of topic.
This doesn't strike me as a particularly good change at first glance... even though my Sci healboat is getting a buff, it's control abilities are getting nerfed at the same time.
they never rollback a tribble change before it reaches holodeck. From a software development perspective thats is correct, tribble is just a pre-production enviorment, is for test builds stability (by builds i mean software builds), no the effect of things in game.
Well, they did hold the EPtX changes for a long time and then gave up on them.
Look at this premade recluse. It's using tac team and science team at the same time. Tell me how this patch didn't make its life easier? Now it can give science team to cleanse sub nuke, but also distribute shields quickly to survive vapes.
Yes you can that's fine.
- most people running that ship as a pure healer in a preamde have NOT been running tac offciers on it at all. Same goes for my pallisade heal setup... I'm not going to change to a tac officer on that ship so I can run a TT that would be a terrible idea... so it doesn't effect my premade build at all.
- if people ARE going to change there builds up to add a spare TT... great it will be that much easier now to fake teams out and get them to blow to many heals on one person. Right now you are FORCED to hold something at least for 15s from now. Now good teams are going to force to much healing in a cycle on one target and rapid switch for an easy kill.
- The only healers this is going to effect in a possitive way are completely 100% pug ones. The ones that are now loading tac teams and sci teams anyway. Yes this change frees them up to burn there Boff spaces all in one cycle no doubt... but at the expense of not having that ability 10s later. Again a good change for pugs I agree... but the more organized a team gets the less this is a plues... and the more it becomes a bad thing. The more you end up wanting to run a build more like we have already been doing where each ship specializes in the proper clears.
- A small handful of ships with currently useless engi ensign slots can now slot an Engi team 1 for a weak heal. Nice for those ships... but come on its not going to make a Galaxy cruiser effective. lol Will make the guys running them in PvE feel like they don't have a wasted slot. Reminds me of when they added the Target Sub System level 1s to the training vendor... a few Defiant players had an extra energy skill to load but it didn't really effect anything much that ship still is sub par.
I guess what I am saying is IF you are flying a super healer Yes you can now Spike heal more... but you do that at a cost. It don't come for free... the only issue which I am agreeing with everyone on is Aux to bat... which gives a handful of stupid cruisers/carriers access to basicly 6 Team skills... that is wrong... but its not this change that is the issue its just the terrible design of the Tech doffs right now. They are the real issue there. With out those doffs consider how you make 3 team abilities really work. Can you get them all to 15s up times... yes if you burn 4 doff slots and 4 boff slots... Or by burning 6 doff slots and 3 boff slots.... or by using 2 doff slots and 5 boff slots....
Comments
So every ship is going to be bringing two copies of TT, two copies of EPtS 1, a copy of HE, and on top of that a copy of TSS, ST, AUX2SIF, and ET?
If all anyone brings to the gun fight is a bulletproof vest then sure no one will die. That is kinda obvious though.
People don't have unlimited boff ability slots, not even when running an A2B build. They will have to give up another ability to bring those be it an RSP, a DEM, a tractor beam, etc etc.
In the universe where everyone got an extra couple bridge officer abilities this is true, yes. Unfortunately, I don't think that happened in ours.
Who is going to have a 15k ET though....
15k engi team only happnes if you
1) dedicate a Lt Cmd slot to it
2) dedicate 2 boffs or are running a2b (which is in need of a nerf bat)
3) are running a bunch of consoles to back it up.
So you are saying people that where not running ET at all previous to this patch are all going to turn there builds into healers... dropping there RSPs... or DEMS... or running different ships completely and dumping there Omega 1s.
You can't with in all honesty tell me you think all the Lt Cmd Tac battle cruisers out there right now are going to start running high level engi teams. lol
As far as the Science teams... yes Cruisers (not counting the lt cmd sci heal heavy ones) and escorts are going to have to trade TSS 1 for it... which is a complete wash and likely a terrible idea in a premade situation where the sci guys are already there to clear them. This only makes sense for Pugging escorts and cruisers who may want to carry the sub nuke clear... agian though there is no WAY that any of them are going to run 2 science team doffs so its still a 30s heal it won't be 15s. (unless someone is stupid and wants to fly an escort that can't kill anything). The only people that have run 15k engi team 3 builds right now are premade cruisers that have escorts backing them with tac teams... is it really the end of the game if a few PUG cruisers in fact switch to more heal heavy team friendly builds ?
This change really doesn't change much of anything as I see it. It won't effect premades much at all... all it does is make it easier to play Pugging healer... and how is that a bad change.
ET clears viral matrix.
ST clears all sci other debuffs and subnuc beam.
They have to take out HE's ability to clear stuff like Energy Siphon or Tyken's Rift to balance things out for sci captains.
I'm just going to have to roll and try my hand at a sci healer, because they've thrown all other sci skills to the garbage with this change.
faw it or vape it....goes through rsp and kills it fast lol
Hardly... watch peoples buff bars instead of just mashing your buttons when your cool downs are up.
This won't change much the way you play your scies... this won't change the effective nature of Sub nuke. Nuke is always about the buff clear... last I checked clearing the timers is a given in a premade fight... more clears don't make no difference. The fact that Nuke removes all buffs and sci team does NOT return them means its still the most effective way to win matches.
Science Online like it ever has been don't worry.
Well, I'll have to switch my drain tactics to targeting aux subsystems because it will be the only way of stopping a2b ships now.
Well I guess if you keep an eye out for the engi teams cause you know it clears target subs.
Really though this doesn't change drain builds much at all... hazards is still the thing you have to watch for if you wanna drain someone.
The only extra clear people might have now is the ENgi ones... so you have to watch more if you are using VM... which I don't find is to popular right now anyway. Escorts should still be pretty easy VM bait anyway... they are just more likely to get a clear from a healing team mate then they where I guess. But I can't see to many escorts giving up aux to damp right now for a VM clear. Are they more likely to run into GW / Grav torp spam or get VMed ?
Granted what makes this a bit more interesting is how easy it is to change load outs now... I mean it was never hard to swap 2 engis on a ship to swap in one skill different... but it is even easier now to adapt on the fly I guess.
Yes it is a change to the meta... I look at it this way though.
Yes it will be easier to dump all your boff slots on one guy that is getting focuses. However if he gets 1 more engi team and one more sci team then he would have before... That team has just traded 2 boff slots of skill to heal the push target when that team rapid switches to one of the healers... or other escort which ever, they are now packing just a little bit less they can save the real target with.
This is a change to the meta... but I still don't see it being a major one.
Yes it will be easier to heal one target... but you are going to be trading skill that you where forced to hold before to heal the second push 10s later. (or if you where facing a team of say Pandas *cough* about 1s after you blow a ton of heals on that one guy).
The advantage to having things locked into cool downs before... was it forced people to hold stuff back. Yes I am going to be grinning ear to ear when I see one guy get 3 engi teams 3 sci teams and a couple spare tac teams in a premade match... I will be laughing out of that grin when we smoke someone completely different 2 seconds later.
I find it weird that Aux2Bat was utterly useless and then you add DOFFs and it becomes a must-have for some builds. That seems backward - the ability should be useful on its own and DOFFs should add something neat to it.
Even weirder is that Photonic Officer is supposed to be the cooldown reduction power...
Also team heals can be chained every 15 seconds, whereas A2S and TSS cannot.
It will absolutely change the survival equation
As for the 30% CritH and whatever CritD is that base or is that taking all weapons into account?
Base. (GJ Romulan BOFF's)
lately? i been playing for years and they never rollback a tribble change before it reaches holodeck. From a software development perspective thats is correct, tribble is just a pre-production enviorment, is for test builds stability (by builds i mean software builds), no the effect of things in game.
there are far more effective vape builds with half of that critc. You just need to think outside of the classic build style. Anyway we are completely out of topic.
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
Whats GJ mean?
Standard Rom Setup.
Racial Triat = 1.5
Boffs 2.5 x 5 - 12.5
Spire consoles 1.8 x 5 = 9
Uni Consoles 0.92 + 0.76 + 1.8 = 3.48
Skill tree = 2.0
= 28.48
Not counting omegas or weapons. (the CrtD is stupid high as well)
Don't forget rep traits too.
Yes you can that's fine.
- most people running that ship as a pure healer in a preamde have NOT been running tac offciers on it at all.
- if people ARE going to change there builds up to add a spare TT... great it will be that much easier now to fake teams out and get them to blow to many heals on one person. Right now you are FORCED to hold something at least for 15s from now. Now good teams are going to force to much healing in a cycle on one target and rapid switch for an easy kill.
- The only healers this is going to effect in a possitive way are completely 100% pug ones. The ones that are now loading tac teams and sci teams anyway. Yes this change frees them up to burn there Boff spaces all in one cycle no doubt... but at the expense of not having that ability 10s later. Again a good change for pugs I agree... but the more organized a team gets the less this is a plues... and the more it becomes a bad thing. The more you end up wanting to run a build more like we have already been doing where each ship specializes in the proper clears.
- A small handful of ships with currently useless engi ensign slots can now slot an Engi team 1 for a weak heal. Nice for those ships... but come on its not going to make a Galaxy cruiser effective. lol Will make the guys running them in PvE feel like they don't have a wasted slot. Reminds me of when they added the Target Sub System level 1s to the training vendor... a few Defiant players had an extra energy skill to load but it didn't really effect anything much that ship still is sub par.
I guess what I am saying is IF you are flying a super healer Yes you can now Spike heal more... but you do that at a cost. It don't come for free... the only issue which I am agreeing with everyone on is Aux to bat... which gives a handful of stupid cruisers/carriers access to basicly 6 Team skills... that is wrong... but its not this change that is the issue its just the terrible design of the Tech doffs right now. They are the real issue there. With out those doffs consider how you make 3 team abilities really work. Can you get them all to 15s up times... yes if you burn 4 doff slots and 4 boff slots... Or by burning 6 doff slots and 3 boff slots.... or by using 2 doff slots and 5 boff slots....
Hardly sound build ideas.
Ahh yes forgot about that.
28.48... scratch that should have said
31.48%