promote one with 5 toons and over time discovered this toon stripped our fleet provisionary.
We discovered our fleet provisionary was stripped out by one person with enough credit in dilithium and FC.
To other fleets that are having this same issue, I'd strongly ask you reply for guidance on how to handle this issue, because I'll be damned if I allow one person to destroy what the rest of us has worked so hard to destroy this T3 going into T4 fleet.
Thoughts?
I eliminated most of what you said to bring a few points to attention.
He had enough Dil and FC to buy things, did he donate at all this to the fleet? If so, why is he being limited and punished for wanting something in return? Obviously he has several alts and needed those provisions to outfit them.
I personally have 4 active toons in my fed fleet, I donate a large amount of resources. Is it fair to limit me, I mean I'm donating my personal resources to build the Starbase.
Plan better and plan ahead, should run provision stuff the moment you complete the first upgrade.
A good example is the Operations Spire provisions, alone across my toons I used 11 provisions. It was to upgrade their Tactical consoles...We planned for this, we ran the provisions mission multiple times once we could.
Those are my thoughts on your situation. If he earned all the FC while being a part of the fleet, he earned the right to purchase things from the store.
Okay, just to clarify first, before going off on how this person has "robbed" you. You are talking about the fleet stores, right? The ones your fleet runs projects for to create provisions so ANYONE WITH PERMISSION can BUY from the stores using THEIR OWN DILITHIUM AND FLEET CREDITS? Not the Fleet Bank, where you put stuff for all to share?
If you mean the Fleet Bank (and I don't read your message as saying that at all) then this is another example of one players' greed hurting other players' game.
On the other hand, as it seems you are talking about the Fleet Stores (provisionary) them the answer is simple. This player has done nothing wrong. This player has grinded (ground? I think ground is better)) out enough dilithium and clearly donated enough to fleet projects to have earned sufficient fleet credits to purchase whatever the hell they want. It's what fleet provisions are for, to have stuff for your players to buy. Could they have been a little more open about their intention to buy out the whole store? Probably. This, I agree, would have been the "nice" thing to do. Just a quick "Hey guys. I have my eye on kitting my ship out with a load of stuff from the fleet store, any objections?" would have been "nice". But they didn't have to do this, and you don't HAVE to kick them for it.
Solution, run some more provision projects to restock the store and ask that all players send a tell/fleet message before buying up everything so a provision project can be run to restock ASAP. Based on the fact that this player bought up your whole fleet store I can assume one of two things.
1. He contributes a tonne to have earned enough fleet credits to buy out the whole fleet store. Sounds like someone worth keeping around to fill fleet projects (especially the provisioning ones). Or...
2. Your store was barely provisioned and they bought what little there was. Run more provision projects.
I may not be popular for this viewpoint, but I just get the impression that this thread quickly went from helpful and sympathetic to "Cryptic needs to sort this" a little quickly.
yeah, thats how i read it. one of the leaders had the audacity to use all 7 engi provisions on his beam boat, so they want to kick him lol
I had similar concerns as the OP... here is what we did (are doing).
First, you should have 3 + Fleet leaders (no alts allowed) OR Have only 1. For the simple reason of exactly what is happening to you today, you are trying to demote this individual, but with an alt (that is also a leader) he can cancel the demotion as long as he/she signs in within 7 days. I do not recommend 2 people, because one can basically demote the other at whim, and there is nothing the other can do... having at least 3 makes it so someone other than the person initiating the demotion can override.
While my fleet read up on the changes on the fleet leadership, we didn't take them too seriously, and are in a similar pickle... we (the 2 other fleet leaders and I are all very friendly) I have 7 alts, and another has 5, and the 3rd has 1. We are slowly demoting our Alts to Rank 6... but it takes 7 days per alt (and only 1 demotion can be going on at one time).
The faster solution would for each Rank 7 person signin with their alt (while another leader is on) and leave the fleet... then be invited back promoting back to Rank 6 (or however you want your alts set-up).
The whole thing was implemented to prevent fleet stealing, and in that light makes some sense in what they were doing... however, the fleet leader should be an ACCOUNT thing, not a character thing... and instead of this cooldown period, there should be a vote process (or at least the ability to speed up the demotion when another leader account agrees with the demotion.
Moral of the story... be careful who you promote, and have either 1 Fleet leader, or at least 3... and do not let alts of current leaders be leaders.
For those who want to completely break the demotion process and lock the leadership to prevent promotions or demotions you create a dummy character to promote it to leader. Once a full leader start the demotion process on it. delete toon. This will put the fleet in a permanent state of demotion pending. Rank 7 is locked and you will not be able to promote or demote.
Okay, just to clarify first, before going off on how this person has "robbed" you. You are talking about the fleet stores, right? The ones your fleet runs projects for to create provisions so ANYONE WITH PERMISSION can BUY from the stores using THEIR OWN DILITHIUM AND FLEET CREDITS? Not the Fleet Bank, where you put stuff for all to share?
If you mean the Fleet Bank (and I don't read your message as saying that at all) then this is another example of one players' greed hurting other players' game.
On the other hand, as it seems you are talking about the Fleet Stores (provisionary) them the answer is simple. This player has done nothing wrong. This player has grinded (ground? I think ground is better)) out enough dilithium and clearly donated enough to fleet projects to have earned sufficient fleet credits to purchase whatever the hell they want. It's what fleet provisions are for, to have stuff for your players to buy. Could they have been a little more open about their intention to buy out the whole store? Probably. This, I agree, would have been the "nice" thing to do. Just a quick "Hey guys. I have my eye on kitting my ship out with a load of stuff from the fleet store, any objections?" would have been "nice". But they didn't have to do this, and you don't HAVE to kick them for it.
Solution, run some more provision projects to restock the store and ask that all players send a tell/fleet message before buying up everything so a provision project can be run to restock ASAP. Based on the fact that this player bought up your whole fleet store I can assume one of two things.
1. He contributes a tonne to have earned enough fleet credits to buy out the whole fleet store. Sounds like someone worth keeping around to fill fleet projects (especially the provisioning ones). Or...
2. Your store was barely provisioned and they bought what little there was. Run more provision projects.
I may not be popular for this viewpoint, but I just get the impression that this thread quickly went from helpful and sympathetic to "Cryptic needs to sort this" a little quickly.
It is actually quite easy to bleed a fleet of provisions.
1) Let other people provisions the starbase.
2) Sell access to the provisions by accepting ec inviting them to the fleet let them buy and remove them from fleet.
this gets you ec for things you did not contribute to.
For those who want to completely break the demotion process and lock the leadership to prevent promotions or demotions you create a dummy character to promote it to leader. Once a full leader start the demotion process on it. delete toon. This will put the fleet in a permanent state of demotion pending. Rank 7 is locked and you will not be able to promote or demote.
Why on Earth would you advocate/explain how to break the process further when the OP already thinks it's broken?
It is actually quite easy to bleed a fleet of provisions.
1) Let other people provisions the starbase.
2) Sell access to the provisions by accepting ec inviting them to the fleet let them buy and remove them from fleet.
this gets you ec for things you did not contribute to.
I'm sure you think this is helpful but the OP did not say the fleet member in question did either of your examples.
The OP states that the member in question emptied the provisions. If he was doing 2 then the fleet history would not show him using the provisions but a new member coming in, buying them and leaving so there would be no evidence of the disputed member doing anything to the stores at all.
Now for number 1. Even if the member in question did not fill provision projects, they still filled enough OTHER projects to earn the fleet credits needed to buy from the stores. Not everyone can get on-line and in-game in time to fill every project so it is entirely possible for a high contributor to the fleet to never actually get to help fill a provisions project. As long as that someone is contributing somewhere to the fleet's advancement, who actually cares?
"...we are far more united and have far more in common with each other than the things that divide us.”
Jo Cox 22.6.1974 - 16.6.2016
I have a similar problem, but it is a little different, I was on a short break, and I came back to some new admiral that is demoting everyone. I am the current target but I can't stop it. This guy will not listen to anyone and is damaging my fleet... how can I stop him? >.< How do I stop myself from getting demoted
I'm sure you think this is helpful but the OP did not say the fleet member in question did either of your examples.
The OP states that the member in question emptied the provisions. If he was doing 2 then the fleet history would not show him using the provisions but a new member coming in, buying them and leaving so there would be no evidence of the disputed member doing anything to the stores at all.
Now for number 1. Even if the member in question did not fill provision projects, they still filled enough OTHER projects to earn the fleet credits needed to buy from the stores. Not everyone can get on-line and in-game in time to fill every project so it is entirely possible for a high contributor to the fleet to never actually get to help fill a provisions project. As long as that someone is contributing somewhere to the fleet's advancement, who actually cares?
Now as far as the provisions are concerned there are no log anywhere for any purchases. I'm sure the op would have done some investigating before coming to the forums and there are probably conversations we are not aware of. people on here didn't think it was possible so I gave a way how a person can make money off of provisions without contributing. If one does this then the members who were provisioning and did not get to use the provisions would care. While the logs may show other people joining to use the provisions it may not take long to find out depending on how the permissions in the fleet are.
There is clearly not enough information in the op to make any assumption. But leaders do need all the information they can get so they can be careful and protect themselves from scammers. Not everyone thinks deviously enough to even consider the potential of how to exploit one another.
OPs fleet is a perfect example of what NOT to do. A fleet should not have more than two or three all powerful god-characters (IE top rank).
Now I understand you're all friends. But still, there should be two or three people with ultimate power, and then set everyone else to the second highest rank, just in case this kind of thing happens. At that second highest rank, they still have almost perfect control, but should they cross the line, demoting/removing them is TRIBBLE easy. And as long as they can't get to the very top rank, they have no way of stopping the instant removal.
So tbh OP, it's your own fault for setting up your fleet so badly. You kinda deserve what was done to you. Learn from it.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
OPs fleet is a perfect example of what NOT to do. A fleet should not have more than two or three all powerful god-characters (IE top rank).
Now I understand you're all friends. But still, there should be two or three people with ultimate power, and then set everyone else to the second highest rank, just in case this kind of thing happens. At that second highest rank, they still have almost perfect control, but should they cross the line, demoting/removing them is TRIBBLE easy. And as long as they can't get to the very top rank, they have no way of stopping the instant removal.
So tbh OP, it's your own fault for setting up your fleet so badly. You kinda deserve what was done to you. Learn from it.
Either way the problem has been resolved. Yeah, take this post above and stow it, I'm sure you get your rocks off treating your fleet like how you post. Enjoy sunshine, you deserve what comes around.
Either way the problem has been resolved. Yeah, take this post above and stow it, I'm sure you get your rocks off treating your fleet like how you post. Enjoy sunshine, you deserve what comes around.
I don't need to treat my fleet like the above post because every fleet I have been in has been set up in a way that prevents exactly what happened to you.
So what comes around to me... are efficient and drama free fleets that get things done, and as soon as trouble comes around... has it summarily and immediately evicted.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
This is why i believe in dictatorships as it relates to guilds/fleets/whatevers
There always needs to be ONE guy (usually the founder) at the very top with a half dozen or so at the next rank down. And it would take a vote after a 60-180 day inactivity period to completely replace him.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
These are horror stories of why I don't join fleets.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I would like to add my voice to the OP's concerns regarding the Fleet Admiral demotion process. The fleet that I've been a part of for over 3 years (currently Tier 4 Starbase, Tier 2 Spire, Tier 3 Dil Mine, and Tier 3 Embassy) have 3 or 4 individuals that are Rank 7, although with multiple toons each (as it wasn't a problem before the Demotion process was put in place). We had a parting of ways with one of the players, who has two STO Accounts. His main account left without a problem, but he then discovered that one of his toons on his alternate account was still Rank 7 in our fleet. Instead of just leaving quietly, he attempted to demote one admiral (which one of our other leaders rescued) and queued up as much Dil-Heavy projects that he could.
After we discovered the problem, we quickly started the demotion process on the toon (luckily, he only had the one toon on that account and none from the other account in the fleet), but before the 14 days was up, the player in question either (1) deleted the toon or (2) left the fleet on his own. Either way, the effect was the same: the timer never cleared. This was back in September or October, I believe. Since then, we have not been able to promote anybody up to Rank 7 or demote from Rank 7.
While this has been a minor inconvenience for the majority of the time, another fleet recently merged into ours and, with how the merger was discussed, a couple of their original Rank 7s are holding at Rank 6 instead of being granted full rights within our fleet because of this issue.
I don't need to treat my fleet like the above post because every fleet I have been in has been set up in a way that prevents exactly what happened to you.
So what comes around to me... are efficient and drama free fleets that get things done, and as soon as trouble comes around... has it summarily and immediately evicted.
Yeah every fleet you've been in? That says alot.:rolleyes:
Comments
I eliminated most of what you said to bring a few points to attention.
He had enough Dil and FC to buy things, did he donate at all this to the fleet? If so, why is he being limited and punished for wanting something in return? Obviously he has several alts and needed those provisions to outfit them.
I personally have 4 active toons in my fed fleet, I donate a large amount of resources. Is it fair to limit me, I mean I'm donating my personal resources to build the Starbase.
Plan better and plan ahead, should run provision stuff the moment you complete the first upgrade.
A good example is the Operations Spire provisions, alone across my toons I used 11 provisions. It was to upgrade their Tactical consoles...We planned for this, we ran the provisions mission multiple times once we could.
Those are my thoughts on your situation. If he earned all the FC while being a part of the fleet, he earned the right to purchase things from the store.
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First, you should have 3 + Fleet leaders (no alts allowed) OR Have only 1. For the simple reason of exactly what is happening to you today, you are trying to demote this individual, but with an alt (that is also a leader) he can cancel the demotion as long as he/she signs in within 7 days. I do not recommend 2 people, because one can basically demote the other at whim, and there is nothing the other can do... having at least 3 makes it so someone other than the person initiating the demotion can override.
While my fleet read up on the changes on the fleet leadership, we didn't take them too seriously, and are in a similar pickle... we (the 2 other fleet leaders and I are all very friendly) I have 7 alts, and another has 5, and the 3rd has 1. We are slowly demoting our Alts to Rank 6... but it takes 7 days per alt (and only 1 demotion can be going on at one time).
The faster solution would for each Rank 7 person signin with their alt (while another leader is on) and leave the fleet... then be invited back promoting back to Rank 6 (or however you want your alts set-up).
The whole thing was implemented to prevent fleet stealing, and in that light makes some sense in what they were doing... however, the fleet leader should be an ACCOUNT thing, not a character thing... and instead of this cooldown period, there should be a vote process (or at least the ability to speed up the demotion when another leader account agrees with the demotion.
Moral of the story... be careful who you promote, and have either 1 Fleet leader, or at least 3... and do not let alts of current leaders be leaders.
Good luck...
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
It is actually quite easy to bleed a fleet of provisions.
1) Let other people provisions the starbase.
2) Sell access to the provisions by accepting ec inviting them to the fleet let them buy and remove them from fleet.
this gets you ec for things you did not contribute to.
I'm sure you think this is helpful but the OP did not say the fleet member in question did either of your examples.
The OP states that the member in question emptied the provisions. If he was doing 2 then the fleet history would not show him using the provisions but a new member coming in, buying them and leaving so there would be no evidence of the disputed member doing anything to the stores at all.
Now for number 1. Even if the member in question did not fill provision projects, they still filled enough OTHER projects to earn the fleet credits needed to buy from the stores. Not everyone can get on-line and in-game in time to fill every project so it is entirely possible for a high contributor to the fleet to never actually get to help fill a provisions project. As long as that someone is contributing somewhere to the fleet's advancement, who actually cares?
Jo Cox 22.6.1974 - 16.6.2016
The op is long gone it was for the guy who necro'ed the thread on page 3. his comment is below.
Now
Now as far as the provisions are concerned there are no log anywhere for any purchases. I'm sure the op would have done some investigating before coming to the forums and there are probably conversations we are not aware of. people on here didn't think it was possible so I gave a way how a person can make money off of provisions without contributing. If one does this then the members who were provisioning and did not get to use the provisions would care. While the logs may show other people joining to use the provisions it may not take long to find out depending on how the permissions in the fleet are.
There is clearly not enough information in the op to make any assumption. But leaders do need all the information they can get so they can be careful and protect themselves from scammers. Not everyone thinks deviously enough to even consider the potential of how to exploit one another.
Now I understand you're all friends. But still, there should be two or three people with ultimate power, and then set everyone else to the second highest rank, just in case this kind of thing happens. At that second highest rank, they still have almost perfect control, but should they cross the line, demoting/removing them is TRIBBLE easy. And as long as they can't get to the very top rank, they have no way of stopping the instant removal.
So tbh OP, it's your own fault for setting up your fleet so badly. You kinda deserve what was done to you. Learn from it.
Either way the problem has been resolved. Yeah, take this post above and stow it, I'm sure you get your rocks off treating your fleet like how you post. Enjoy sunshine, you deserve what comes around.
I don't need to treat my fleet like the above post because every fleet I have been in has been set up in a way that prevents exactly what happened to you.
So what comes around to me... are efficient and drama free fleets that get things done, and as soon as trouble comes around... has it summarily and immediately evicted.
There always needs to be ONE guy (usually the founder) at the very top with a half dozen or so at the next rank down. And it would take a vote after a 60-180 day inactivity period to completely replace him.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
After we discovered the problem, we quickly started the demotion process on the toon (luckily, he only had the one toon on that account and none from the other account in the fleet), but before the 14 days was up, the player in question either (1) deleted the toon or (2) left the fleet on his own. Either way, the effect was the same: the timer never cleared. This was back in September or October, I believe. Since then, we have not been able to promote anybody up to Rank 7 or demote from Rank 7.
While this has been a minor inconvenience for the majority of the time, another fleet recently merged into ours and, with how the merger was discussed, a couple of their original Rank 7s are holding at Rank 6 instead of being granted full rights within our fleet because of this issue.
Yeah every fleet you've been in? That says alot.:rolleyes:
Me too, it is there to make people angry...:P