Zen does NOT go to Cryptic directly, it goes to PWE, and based on the sales, Cryptic either gets a surplus or it gets a bit more funding. Cryptic is paid by PWE under a salary based system along with the sales system, they don't just get the funds and say "oh let's take this vast ammount of money to make the game work better" they can't.
So PWE controls the money, yet you think Cryptic could go behind their back and rack up fan loot without PWE "confiscating" it?
You really have no idea how companies work do you? Unless you are trying to figure out some way to raise enough money to buy sufficient stock in Perfect World Entertainment that you can sit on the board of directors and have a say in corporate decisions, then no, PWE would have no part of this. No company anywhere would let some privately funded entity interfere with their internal workings, the only time it ever happens is when some legal process is involved, like an audit or bankruptcy.
Imagine an auto manufacturer's response to you saying we're going to use Kickstarter to fund a group to troubleshoot the cars in your factory, you would be able to hear the laughter for miles while you were being escorted off the premises, in no way is what you are proposing any different.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
Like what failures and as I am at it, why would they?
Kickstarter was designed to fund projects, if the goal fails the money is refund and like everything there will be a success-failure rate.
To be clear, at no point am I talking about games that fail to meet their goal. I'm referring to the rapidly growing list of fully funded games that either never release or are abandoned after an early access partial release. Refunds in these cases are rare, never full, and virtually impossible to pursue if they're not offered out of the goodness of the developer's heart. These games currently outnumber actual releases among successfully funded kickstarters, and I'm only aware of two that even attempted to offer refunds.
I'm talking about games that route their own money or traditional investors through kickstart to game backer-matching programs like Ouya's Free the Games.
I'm also talking about Peter Molyneux's stunt, where he ran multiple crowdfunding campaigns, plus a pay-to-win non-game/publicity stunt, for a game he'd already personally funded. I'm talking about EA telling its developers to crowdfund risky games instead of taking publisher money, and about predatory fake publishers who plop dozens of never-to-be-finished turds on Steam early access for full price.
I'm not talking about Star Ctizen, which is almost completely crowd funded, and despite their impressive gall with running multiple campaigns and making more money this way than they ever will once it launches, they don't seem to be intentionally delaying development.
I'm also giving Broken Age a pass, despite being pre-funded and hitting ten times their kickstart goal only to release a first episode beta on early access, because they haven't abandoned the game to early access, promised backers will still get the other episodes, and decided against a second kickstarter to finish the game. So delayed but not failed.
Heck, I not even talking about Katalyka here - fully funded and then abandoned, but considering at last word the project leader was raving about being attacked by voices from the intergalactic plasma I think they have a doctor's note on this one. Backers are usually quick to turn on projects, but Katalyka's have been fairly understanding and supportive.
would it be a good idea to have a kickstarter to update and refactor STO? this way updates would be easier, implication of newer mechanics also easier.
Less bugs, dedicated team to handle it due to kickstarter?
I mean the team and community have so many ideas that it'd be impossible to even consider a fraction of them(one of which is exploration) unless some serious time consuming bug fixes and rewrites are done.
this would do away with that and allow the team to push forward while being able to maintain some proper damage control...instead of being in a car with all the dials and comforts broken.
EDIT//// Kickstarter, or dedicated crowd funding format to allow the community help with the goal of a better STO.
I remember a while back D'Stahl responded to a question about kickstarter, and his response went more or less in the direction that he thinks it's viable for certain things but he doesn't know if it is viable.
I would like to think it is, and that Kickstarter could be used to fund a project in STO that would bring it into the Star Trek Format instead of this generic MMO killemall mentality, with the Trifecta being absolutely useless since DPS is dominant for all.
What if Kickstarter was used to fund a large Expansion, say Season 10, something so large that it needed a new set of staff members or the divertion of other cryptic staff members to bring it to fruition?
Something that had a fully functioning Exploration System, A Real Diplomatic Branch, A well flushed out and fulfilling set of episodes, hell why not even include a new system that randomizes maps for STF's so it's not always a grind.
Maybe it would even be able to create mechanics that can fix the old bugs, and even implement a new system like Battleground PvE/PvP?
the options are limitless....so long as it's legal and PWE agrees of course.
Something that could fund this like Kickstarter might even be a great advertisement venue.
CBS issues aside, would you all think this be a good idea?
...which Scott Adams of Dilbert fame predicted, correctly in my opinion, will be the last thing humanity ever invents.
Think about it.
who needs holodecks when we are already living in a simulation?
computers keep getting faster. Processing power has doubled periodically for decades, and computers 50 years from now may well be millions of times more powerful than any today.
Better computers would bring much bigger and better computer simulators, including history simulators.
If computers get powerful enough, they would create history simulations so real that the self-aware beings within them would have no idea they were part of a program.
there are likely to be thousand's if not millions of these simulation's running, this means statistically speaking we most probably are living inside one of these simulation's and don't even know it.
would that make sto a simulation of the future within a simulation of the past?
Something like this, or a crowd supported STO dedicated fund (most lockbox and zen store items go to PWE directly for dispersal, Cryptic doesn't get the money directly which limits their funding) would most likely be cause for a good refactoring team to allow for a smoother working experience, it would also make it easier on the STO devs themselves allowing them to work on such a thing with an easier progression rate and far less crippling engine problems.
But why the hell jump to crowd funding? It's a trendy thing right now, to be sure, but the creators in question are a gaming studio. Releasing updates or new games on their own shouldn't be an unreasonable expectation since it's what they're ostensibly set up for.
Granted, there's always the question of "well if they have more money they could do more things," but such is always the case with every economic enterprise. It doesn't justify additional measures.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Oh bloody hell...dupe post 'cause I didn't realize the OP had two threads about the same idea running concurrently and didn't notice which one I was in.
-headdesk-
Although that raises an idea of its own: If the OP can't remember they started a thread about this idea 9 days ago so the OP starts another, how much merit can the obviously-forgettable idea really have, hmmm?
This. Star Citizen is a MMO that is currently being developed that is completely or almost completely funded through Kickstarter. Kickstarter only works because they give various incentives for contributing different levels of cash. So Cryptic would have to create these incentives in addition to the actual expansion and Kickstarter is based on funding projects that need a good kick to get started. So a Kickstarter project for STO that has been around for 4 years is against the spirit of Kickstarter.
Emphasis mine, but as a professional in the table-top RPG industry who has watched everyone from Pinnacle Entertainment to Eden Studios to White Wolf to Green Ronin use and abuse Kickstarter . . . there isn't much spirit left in it.
While, yes, Kickstarter is vital to indie companies, far too many of the "Big Boys" have also recognized it for what it is today: the way to get your fans to fund your next product, which means you, as a company, have absolutely zero overhead invested and therefore are making 100% profit from the first unit sold in retail.
And Kickstarter/Amazon do not care, since they get that 5% each of whatever a successfully funded Kickstarter makes for the end amount.
Kickstarter has become a cash cow in the game industry for too many companies.
This is a joke, right? "Hey, we're Cryptic, making money hand over fist- please donate to our Kickstarter..."
I think the best you could hope for is setting a world record for making the most people pass out laughing simultaneously...but that could just be me. -shrug-
Don't laugh--- it's already happened in the table-top RPG industry, where companies like Eden Studios, White Wolf, Pinnacle Entertainment, and Green Ronin (who publishes Mutants & Masterminds, plus hold the RPG licenses to: Game of Thrones, Dragon Age, Wild Cards, and DC Comics) use and abuse Kickstarter.
It isn't just about indie companies anymore. Now, the Big Boys are using it to not have to invest any overhead on their big products, and therefore make profit from retail unit #1 sold.
Not to mention that when they're making $70k-$120k+ on $5k to $8k funding goals, even accounting for the rewards (and massive number of mailings), they aren't releasing much new product beyond that Kickstarter (until they launch the next Kickstarter 8-10 months later). Which makes one wonder if they're enjoying those cars and vacations with the excess funding goal.
Kickstarter has been abused by established, profitable companies since at least Summer 2012. Meanwhile, Amazon/Kickstarter still get 5% each of whatever funding the project ultimately hit, so they have no issue with what it's become.
Heck, Evil Hat Productions (owners of Fate) have always been open with their sales numbers. Between the Dresden Files RPG and Spirit of the Century, they've had sales that have challenged Green Ronin in volume. Yet, Fate Core mysteriously needed a kickstarter. He asked for something like $3k. Well, 45 days later, he walked away with 10k backers and almost a half million dollars: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/evilhat/fate-core
Kickstarter would work to probably bring in voice talent or pay to use likeness of actors. But to make a game less buggy, not really going to happen.
But to build a game from the ground up like Star Citizen, that's something you can use kick starter for since that is how that game was funded.
But when you have a major corporation making a game, kickstarter is basically a waste of time and effort.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I WILL support the idea of a Star Trek Kick starter, but NOT from Cryptic. Cryptic poor QA, shoddy programming, and half hearted commitment to the Trek lore and Trek fans has tainted their reputation beyond repair.
If a committed upstart developer decides to name their NEW Star Trek Online Game --> United Federation Online or Star Trek Universe Online and kickstart with highend graphics and details, but most importantly a superior MMO gameplay model, I am onboard to donate.
Why try to repair a badly programmed game that is basically barely leaving BETA (and I say this trying to be funny) - when you can donate and support a new developer to try to make a superior Trek MMO, the way fans envision it to be.
Besides, Cryptic is already making a killing, so no need for them to have kickstarting support.
Well lets see. There is ACTUAL EXPLORATION. Infact if you find warp paths, they get named after you for the remainder of the game. New planets added weekly. Better looking ships, more involved universe.
You can be a smuggler, pirate, cargo hauler, explorer, all with the same character. And guess what your character can be hurt, lose limbs, die even! And it all gets transferred to a beneficiary[your next toon] and you pick almost where you left off!
Sorry IMO, Star Citizen is going to leave this game in the dust in terms of visuals, gameplay, and things to do. Granted STOL will always be Star Trek, but far as exploration, and the rest, this game PALES in comparison to Star Citizen. Can't wait for it to show up.
And frankly PWE/Cryptic should be taking notes and figuring out how to make this game better in terms of exploration and more things to do in game besides go from 1-50, then simply grind.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Well lets see. There is ACTUAL EXPLORATION. Infact if you find warp paths, they get named after you for the remainder of the game. New planets added weekly. Better looking ships, more involved universe.
You can be a smuggler, pirate, cargo hauler, explorer, all with the same character. And guess what your character can be hurt, lose limbs, die even! And it all gets transferred to a beneficiary[your next toon] and you pick almost where you left off!
Sorry IMO, Star Citizen is going to leave this game in the dust in terms of visuals, gameplay, and things to do. Granted STOL will always be Star Trek, but far as exploration, and the rest, this game PALES in comparison to Star Citizen. Can't wait for it to show up.
And frankly PWE/Cryptic should be taking notes and figuring out how to make this game better in terms of exploration and more things to do in game besides go from 1-50, then simply grind.
None of that sounds like it will make a very good game imo.
A lot of jumbled up ideas but we'll see when it comes out how it gets executed
Well lets see. There is ACTUAL EXPLORATION. Infact if you find warp paths, they get named after you for the remainder of the game. New planets added weekly. Better looking ships, more involved universe.
You can be a smuggler, pirate, cargo hauler, explorer, all with the same character. And guess what your character can be hurt, lose limbs, die even! And it all gets transferred to a beneficiary[your next toon] and you pick almost where you left off!
Sorry IMO, Star Citizen is going to leave this game in the dust in terms of visuals, gameplay, and things to do. Granted STOL will always be Star Trek, but far as exploration, and the rest, this game PALES in comparison to Star Citizen. Can't wait for it to show up.
And frankly PWE/Cryptic should be taking notes and figuring out how to make this game better in terms of exploration and more things to do in game besides go from 1-50, then simply grind.
*snicker* You can't always believe what's advertised. From what I have seen, I am very unimpress.
Well lets see. There is ACTUAL EXPLORATION. Infact if you find warp paths, they get named after you for the remainder of the game. New planets added weekly. Better looking ships, more involved universe.
You can be a smuggler, pirate, cargo hauler, explorer, all with the same character. And guess what your character can be hurt, lose limbs, die even! And it all gets transferred to a beneficiary[your next toon] and you pick almost where you left off!
Sorry IMO, Star Citizen is going to leave this game in the dust in terms of visuals, gameplay, and things to do. Granted STOL will always be Star Trek, but far as exploration, and the rest, this game PALES in comparison to Star Citizen. Can't wait for it to show up.
And frankly PWE/Cryptic should be taking notes and figuring out how to make this game better in terms of exploration and more things to do in game besides go from 1-50, then simply grind.
It is not possible to judge a game until it comes out. There have been numerous games that are advertising a particular feature in the game and when the game comes out that feature is missing.
Personally, I am looking forward to Wildstar, but it is released by NCSoft and I have been burnt by them twice already with Tabula Rasa and City of Heroes.
This is why the Video game industry is in the TRIBBLE shape it's in when it comes to companies/developers sayining soo much fluff , and people eating it up....that's why companies now a day just make Beta's and release them as "full games".
Well lets see. There is ACTUAL EXPLORATION. Infact if you find warp paths, they get named after you for the remainder of the game. New planets added weekly. Better looking ships, more involved universe.
You can be a smuggler, pirate, cargo hauler, explorer, all with the same character. And guess what your character can be hurt, lose limbs, die even! And it all gets transferred to a beneficiary[your next toon] and you pick almost where you left off!
Sorry IMO, Star Citizen is going to leave this game in the dust in terms of visuals, gameplay, and things to do. Granted STOL will always be Star Trek, but far as exploration, and the rest, this game PALES in comparison to Star Citizen. Can't wait for it to show up.
And frankly PWE/Cryptic should be taking notes and figuring out how to make this game better in terms of exploration and more things to do in game besides go from 1-50, then simply grind.
Permanent Character death in an MMO? Bad game right there with that idea.
Permanent death is for single player RPGs like Skyrim where you have a SAVE function.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Permanent Character death in an MMO? Bad game right there with that idea.
Permanent death is for single player RPGs like Skyrim where you have a SAVE function.
See... I think it's kind of ingenious because, yes, it's permanent character death but you get a new character who starts at the same place who gets the same name and look if you want. It's a sleight of hand. Death gets to feel a bit more like death but you don't have to lose anything.
I am a fan of elaborate resurrection mechanisms in games. I like the idea of the graveyard run where your spirit must re-enter your body in fantasy games. I like how in Star Trek: Borg, Q brings you back. I like games where you never actually die but are simply immobilized.
But blowing up and coming back via respawn is incredibly cheap, IMHO.
Comments
So PWE controls the money, yet you think Cryptic could go behind their back and rack up fan loot without PWE "confiscating" it?
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
which is why I said it would have to be greenlit by PWE, it's not like Cryptic can make money on its own now.
they got sold like a player from a baseball team, so yea.
Imagine an auto manufacturer's response to you saying we're going to use Kickstarter to fund a group to troubleshoot the cars in your factory, you would be able to hear the laughter for miles while you were being escorted off the premises, in no way is what you are proposing any different.
To be clear, at no point am I talking about games that fail to meet their goal. I'm referring to the rapidly growing list of fully funded games that either never release or are abandoned after an early access partial release. Refunds in these cases are rare, never full, and virtually impossible to pursue if they're not offered out of the goodness of the developer's heart. These games currently outnumber actual releases among successfully funded kickstarters, and I'm only aware of two that even attempted to offer refunds.
I'm talking about games that route their own money or traditional investors through kickstart to game backer-matching programs like Ouya's Free the Games.
I'm also talking about Peter Molyneux's stunt, where he ran multiple crowdfunding campaigns, plus a pay-to-win non-game/publicity stunt, for a game he'd already personally funded. I'm talking about EA telling its developers to crowdfund risky games instead of taking publisher money, and about predatory fake publishers who plop dozens of never-to-be-finished turds on Steam early access for full price.
I'm not talking about Star Ctizen, which is almost completely crowd funded, and despite their impressive gall with running multiple campaigns and making more money this way than they ever will once it launches, they don't seem to be intentionally delaying development.
I'm also giving Broken Age a pass, despite being pre-funded and hitting ten times their kickstart goal only to release a first episode beta on early access, because they haven't abandoned the game to early access, promised backers will still get the other episodes, and decided against a second kickstarter to finish the game. So delayed but not failed.
Heck, I not even talking about Katalyka here - fully funded and then abandoned, but considering at last word the project leader was raving about being attacked by voices from the intergalactic plasma I think they have a doctor's note on this one. Backers are usually quick to turn on projects, but Katalyka's have been fairly understanding and supportive.
Why are you creating a 2nd thread about your same Kickstarter thought from the thread published February 2nd?
Moderators, these threads should be merged.
who needs holodecks when we are already living in a simulation?
computers keep getting faster. Processing power has doubled periodically for decades, and computers 50 years from now may well be millions of times more powerful than any today.
Better computers would bring much bigger and better computer simulators, including history simulators.
If computers get powerful enough, they would create history simulations so real that the self-aware beings within them would have no idea they were part of a program.
there are likely to be thousand's if not millions of these simulation's running, this means statistically speaking we most probably are living inside one of these simulation's and don't even know it.
would that make sto a simulation of the future within a simulation of the past?
see the youtube video below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l2YQCFE0N4
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
And like said player, now their options are "suck it up or shut down and go home."
The time to think about fundraising was before they literally got owned by PWE.
But why the hell jump to crowd funding? It's a trendy thing right now, to be sure, but the creators in question are a gaming studio. Releasing updates or new games on their own shouldn't be an unreasonable expectation since it's what they're ostensibly set up for.
Granted, there's always the question of "well if they have more money they could do more things," but such is always the case with every economic enterprise. It doesn't justify additional measures.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
-headdesk-
Although that raises an idea of its own: If the OP can't remember they started a thread about this idea 9 days ago so the OP starts another, how much merit can the obviously-forgettable idea really have, hmmm?
Emphasis mine, but as a professional in the table-top RPG industry who has watched everyone from Pinnacle Entertainment to Eden Studios to White Wolf to Green Ronin use and abuse Kickstarter . . . there isn't much spirit left in it.
While, yes, Kickstarter is vital to indie companies, far too many of the "Big Boys" have also recognized it for what it is today: the way to get your fans to fund your next product, which means you, as a company, have absolutely zero overhead invested and therefore are making 100% profit from the first unit sold in retail.
And Kickstarter/Amazon do not care, since they get that 5% each of whatever a successfully funded Kickstarter makes for the end amount.
Kickstarter has become a cash cow in the game industry for too many companies.
Don't laugh--- it's already happened in the table-top RPG industry, where companies like Eden Studios, White Wolf, Pinnacle Entertainment, and Green Ronin (who publishes Mutants & Masterminds, plus hold the RPG licenses to: Game of Thrones, Dragon Age, Wild Cards, and DC Comics) use and abuse Kickstarter.
It isn't just about indie companies anymore. Now, the Big Boys are using it to not have to invest any overhead on their big products, and therefore make profit from retail unit #1 sold.
Not to mention that when they're making $70k-$120k+ on $5k to $8k funding goals, even accounting for the rewards (and massive number of mailings), they aren't releasing much new product beyond that Kickstarter (until they launch the next Kickstarter 8-10 months later). Which makes one wonder if they're enjoying those cars and vacations with the excess funding goal.
Kickstarter has been abused by established, profitable companies since at least Summer 2012. Meanwhile, Amazon/Kickstarter still get 5% each of whatever funding the project ultimately hit, so they have no issue with what it's become.
Heck, Evil Hat Productions (owners of Fate) have always been open with their sales numbers. Between the Dresden Files RPG and Spirit of the Century, they've had sales that have challenged Green Ronin in volume. Yet, Fate Core mysteriously needed a kickstarter. He asked for something like $3k. Well, 45 days later, he walked away with 10k backers and almost a half million dollars: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/evilhat/fate-core
Yeah, almost a half-million. And yet here they are getting more fan-funding: http://www.patreon.com/evilhat
But to build a game from the ground up like Star Citizen, that's something you can use kick starter for since that is how that game was funded.
But when you have a major corporation making a game, kickstarter is basically a waste of time and effort.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I could see it being used for interiors.
Star Citizen <---- click on link
which is a superior game in every way.
I WILL support the idea of a Star Trek Kick starter, but NOT from Cryptic. Cryptic poor QA, shoddy programming, and half hearted commitment to the Trek lore and Trek fans has tainted their reputation beyond repair.
If a committed upstart developer decides to name their NEW Star Trek Online Game --> United Federation Online or Star Trek Universe Online and kickstart with highend graphics and details, but most importantly a superior MMO gameplay model, I am onboard to donate.
Why try to repair a badly programmed game that is basically barely leaving BETA (and I say this trying to be funny) - when you can donate and support a new developer to try to make a superior Trek MMO, the way fans envision it to be.
Besides, Cryptic is already making a killing, so no need for them to have kickstarting support.
Well lets see. There is ACTUAL EXPLORATION. Infact if you find warp paths, they get named after you for the remainder of the game. New planets added weekly. Better looking ships, more involved universe.
You can be a smuggler, pirate, cargo hauler, explorer, all with the same character. And guess what your character can be hurt, lose limbs, die even! And it all gets transferred to a beneficiary[your next toon] and you pick almost where you left off!
Sorry IMO, Star Citizen is going to leave this game in the dust in terms of visuals, gameplay, and things to do. Granted STOL will always be Star Trek, but far as exploration, and the rest, this game PALES in comparison to Star Citizen. Can't wait for it to show up.
And frankly PWE/Cryptic should be taking notes and figuring out how to make this game better in terms of exploration and more things to do in game besides go from 1-50, then simply grind.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
None of that sounds like it will make a very good game imo.
A lot of jumbled up ideas but we'll see when it comes out how it gets executed
There is a lot of hype behind a somewhat unsuccessful tool
*snicker* You can't always believe what's advertised. From what I have seen, I am very unimpress.
It is not possible to judge a game until it comes out. There have been numerous games that are advertising a particular feature in the game and when the game comes out that feature is missing.
Personally, I am looking forward to Wildstar, but it is released by NCSoft and I have been burnt by them twice already with Tabula Rasa and City of Heroes.
Permanent Character death in an MMO? Bad game right there with that idea.
Permanent death is for single player RPGs like Skyrim where you have a SAVE function.
See... I think it's kind of ingenious because, yes, it's permanent character death but you get a new character who starts at the same place who gets the same name and look if you want. It's a sleight of hand. Death gets to feel a bit more like death but you don't have to lose anything.
I am a fan of elaborate resurrection mechanisms in games. I like the idea of the graveyard run where your spirit must re-enter your body in fantasy games. I like how in Star Trek: Borg, Q brings you back. I like games where you never actually die but are simply immobilized.
But blowing up and coming back via respawn is incredibly cheap, IMHO.
But not for bug fixes ... I think for special ... hard to fund content, such as FEs and VO's and improving STOs medicore music.
I hope STO get's better ...