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Is the increased rewards for dill the way to "save" pvp?
i8472
Member Posts: 225 Arc User
Is the increased rewards for dill the way to "save" pvp?
With the Bonus Dill available for pvp the ques have been more available than at other times...
Ker'rat had 7 instances earlier,
had couple shuttle,
couple 5vs5,
and last time looked there was like 40 in the fed vs kdf Cap and hold, and was able to do a few also...
*to Be honest never tried/looked at the ground pvp this weekend.
So is keeping the increased rewards the way to keep pvp fairly active?
In my opinion everything else gives Dillitium at a much higher rate and at a better pace and for a lot less effort.
Q: should the increased rewards stay?
A: ______
With the Bonus Dill available for pvp the ques have been more available than at other times...
Ker'rat had 7 instances earlier,
had couple shuttle,
couple 5vs5,
and last time looked there was like 40 in the fed vs kdf Cap and hold, and was able to do a few also...
*to Be honest never tried/looked at the ground pvp this weekend.
So is keeping the increased rewards the way to keep pvp fairly active?
In my opinion everything else gives Dillitium at a much higher rate and at a better pace and for a lot less effort.
Q: should the increased rewards stay?
A: ______
Post edited by i8472 on
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I always PvP'd more when there was some event or new grind.
Whether it was to chuckle at folks whining in zone or to congratulate somebody for an awesome job of slaughtering me...PvE drives me to PvP. I think if that release wasn't there, I'd have walked away from the game by now.
Running the new FE three times on eight toons - chasing lil' q's around on eight toons...yeah, I'm more than happy to get blown to smithereens in PvP as a break from that.
Cause yeah, it's definitely faster to get Dil from other sources...
Honestly, there's nothing that would increase interest in PvP for the average player. While I enjoy dabbling in PvP when I have nothing else to do, PvP in STO feels nothing like Trek at all. That alone is probably the biggest turn off that players have.
Barring a ground up total rebuild of STO, PvP will not change, and overall numbers of those PvPing will be a small dedicated minority.
Increase the reward only for winning team.
In the current state of pvp? As a means of attracting new players? I somehow doubt that'd be very effective.
Folks would game the system with private matches and win trading.
*disabled in private
PVP current state is bad for long time, and also dont atract new players, i see same names for 2 years every day. And every day i meet pugstomping premades, so i dont see how it can be more bad.
Increasing dil rewards for the winning team stimulates the forming of premades/semi-premades by experienced pvpers even more, which puts players new to pvp at even more of a disadvantage. I'd say it increases the odds of getting roflstomped repeatedly, thus making the experience worse.
Primarily, there's no incentive to play PvP. This is a very large problem because people currently only PvP because they enjoy PvP. True the Dil rewards are there, but they're insubstantial compared to PvE ways of earning Dil. The design of the Dilithium Economy was that four hundred and eighty dil was meant to equate to roughly fifteen minutes of gametime. This meant that the PvP missions and dailies were meant to take roughly forty five minutes to complete. This is not always the case, the Ker'rat daily can be finished in fifteen minutes, the Cap and Hold one can take up to two hours, but it averages out fairly well. In the terms of how the Dilithium Economy was planned though, it generally meets that expectation. However, like a lot of things Cryptic says, it doesn't translate into the gameplay. Look at comparable STFs; you can knock out Infected, Cure and Khitomer Space Elite in a quick forty five minutes and earn two thousand eight hundred and eighty dilithium with pugs, plus enough Omega marks for another two and a half to three thousand dil, and then be ready to run them all again in a short fifteen minutes. There is a dilithium imbalance between PvP and PvE, but would increasing the dilithium rewards improve PvP populations? Yes. Would it improve PvP in general? No, because STF rewards are based on Performance. You can't fail PvP. You can only lose. Which brings me to my second point.
There's no incentive to play PvP well. You've all seen them, the people the enter a PvP match and camp at the spawn just to farm the dilithium missions. It's not the fastest way to get dil, but it's the least intensive; you sit there and watch your team lose. This is a problem with the current PvP system, especially for Arenas, because the only people who really PvP are people who like to PvP. Allowing dilithium farmers hurts the fragile system that's already in place. It's frustrating to be on a team with one of them, and when you make PvP frustrating it means people stop PvPing. Having a kick-player system, where a player can be kicked by the team, or by the system for inactivity, would alleviate this somewhat. It fixes the problem, but it doesn't provide an incentive to play PvP, it's a stick, not a carrot. A system that awards rewards based on your endgame numbers would provide an incentive to perform well; dilithium for how much damage and healing you did in the match, plus bonus dil for winning (probably in the form of a mission, e.i. "win three arenas to get x amount of dil"), would mean that people would not only try during a match, but would try to get better after each match. To incentivize playing better though, comes with it's own challenges, especially with what I consider the biggest problem with PvP.
The best PvP gear is behind PvE grindwalls. This is the biggest thing that hurts PvP in this game; grinding out the best gear isn't necessarily a problem in itself, it's the fact that you have to grind PvE missions to get the best gear for PvP. MACO, Omega Force, and Honor Guard sets and the Romulan Consoles, Equipment, and Tier Five ability are behind the massive Omega and Romulan Reputation grinds, and on top of that, they require another, albeit short, PvE grind to get the materials to requisition them. Even Fleet Equipment requires over a two hundred thousand Fleet Credit grind to get equipped, and that's if your Fleet even has the Tier Starbase, Embassy, Dilithium Mine and Spire, not to mention requisitions, to get what you need. What equipment can you get without having to PvE? Only stuff from the Exchange, Dilithium Store or unlocking Boxes. PvP is the only part of the game where you have to do something else to get the best gear for it. In fact, the current system deincentivizes PvP; in order to play it well, you have to play everything else first. For PvP to truly be an endgame option for STO, there needs to be some kind of endgame reward system for PvP where you can get PvP gear from PvPing, such as a PvP Reputation faction. When this happens, you'll see the number of PvPers spike because there will actually be true reasons for PvP other than just for for the sake of it.
That people PvP because they enjoy PvP is not a problem in the least...
...that they have to do something they may not enjoy to be able to feel comfortable in PvP is a very large problem...
...that forcing them to grind gear in PvP would not resolve. It creates the lose until you can play and maybe have some fun issue that's come up in multiple games. It doesn't work, and for the life of me - I do not get why people continue to suggest it. It's like suggesting...
...is a problem. But with the following...
...again, you will have the haves and have-nots; where the latter group may only partially be better off than they were before because they do not have to...
...but you've still got that imbalance. So instead of RandomPvPer off grinding PvE so they can get in on some PvP action, where they may find themselves outgeared (not having fun) or find themselves overgeared (not having fun) - where they can at least funnel their dislike into the PvE being the issue; they're going to be faced with it strictly being the PvP that's the issue. So the thing they enjoyed, perhaps the only thing they enjoyed (while putting up with the rest) - becomes - a thing they no longer enjoy.
Where does PvP work? When it's balanced...and generally speaking, it can't be balanced in a F2P game without there being some form of ladder/hierarchy. But unlike a game designed as a F2P PvP game - where you're entire playerbase is there for the PvP so you have the population for such a hierarchy; STO simply doesn't have enough folks in chairs to do that.
A potential solution then...is for PvP not to be F2P. For Cryptic to take a look at creating a series of ships, gear, characters...overall templates that are balanced - and - selling PvP Access Passes. Whether it's a day pass, week pass, month pass, three month pass, six month pass, annual pass, or even lifetime pass...for PvP to be P2P.
Because as I started off...
...this is not a problem for players, but it is a problem for Cryptic. Because this is a F2P game, they are not generating revenue from a subscription - thus everything they do needs to figure into their books and the bottom line. If it's not making money, it's not helping the business.
Everything has to be monetized - everything has to justify the cost of developing and operating it.
Thus, there cannot be any balance - whether the gear is stuck behind a PvE or a PvP grind - balance can only be found by paying for it.
Just my 2 EC, not accounting for inflation...
edit: Oh, btw, it will never happen - because Cryptic is making a killing from all the PvP folks complaining while grinding/spending out the wahzoo...they're making money just fine off the way it is.
PVP 2014 - Fawn00bs,Vapers and leavers...
That's one of the longest posts I've ever seen that said nothing at all.
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
It's so dumb that the way we're made to repeat pve TRIBBLE over and over again every day is acceptable. It shouldn't be, it's bull****.
the farmers are already there/here... in Que, pre-mades, Ka'rat, Otha, pve, pvp and real life.
better geared players, usually had to have Dillithium before better gear...
afk people... no comment.
"just those that pvp enjoy pvp." well with increased rewards. Those people would feel they could pvp more often and not feel they still had to do other content, to reach the refine cap for the day.
rewards based off of performance Well seen players hit 2 million damage + very high healing done just by sitting on a spawn point in cap and hold... It would be a waste of DEV time to implement/add to game. and easily abused.
Add buffs to the team that begins to lose
Allow a queue system that restricts cheese consoles
Allow a queue system that rewards players that are dedicated heals
Allow rewards to favor team play, buffs/heals cast on team mates
Add a ranking system for dedicated team play
Add individual ranking for puggers
Create pvp only ships that can be brought into matches
Reward new players for pvping
Have dev vs. players matches from time to time
A boost to dilithium will not do anything, maybe attract some trolls who just sit around
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Derrick - Fed Eng
Pretty much something along these lines, keeping in mind with neither box sales nor a subscription - Cryptic would still need some form of revenue stream from it.
I want all marks as a reward for PvP.
and why not? after all, in most PvPs you find yourself fighting Romulan, Voth, and Tholian ships, oh yeah, and probably some assimilated Borg Gear too
1. Increase the number of farmers in the queues so much that it looks like Kerrat 2.0
2. Increase the QQ when said farmers get farmed.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
I do too, the 50 fleet mark daily at a minimum should be a choice box.
PvP would definitely gain more traction if we could rep while we pew.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Last I checked GW doens't have a sub and doesn't sell any PvP p2w either.
If Cryptics own numbers are to believed... we are not a major part of there $ stream anyway... and I think there numbers also say we would just keep pveing if such a system existed. lol
There I said it. Rewards do nothing but attract people looking for rewards. If you won't really want to PvP don't bother showing up because there is a carrot there.
I have said for a long time what we need is a GW2 Style arena game... where yes almost everything people are using now would be not PvP gear...
Create a second ship Doll on everyones Toon screen... only allow -p gear to be slotted. Make it all free... Add a PvP spec section... disable all Rep. Have at it.
Cryptic can then sell all sorts of PvP cosmetics. (The doll can have a cosmetic slot)... think funky defelector effects.... engine traits.
PvP Fireworks items. Why just explode fireworks when you could drop 5 bucks and explode something more extravagant. These are not hard to code... look at all the party poppers we have for ground... imagine picking up Space -p Fireworks that pop anything from Klink and Fed logos, to fleet logos (why not fireworks that explode in the shape of what ever your fleet logo is). They could make tons of money that way... and with Camo Paint Schemes ect. The Risan summer ship had options for engine glows... I could see cosmetic PvP engine glows selling well also.
The key would be NO P2W game effecting items could ever be tossed in or Cryptic would loose all integrity.
However if they are serious about PvP... they could also create a Open PvP zone... a new ground area, think the new Dyson zone with PvP. (They could even allow 1-2 boffs to make it interesting). They could create something similer in a new enhanced style kerrat... where people could fight it out in a PvPvE style capture system. In this area they could allow everything no restrictions all the rep and gear you want. I don't think they could go FvK anymore the population just won't support it at all. Most likely they would just do something like warp in and get put on a side that needs people. (like Nvak). However if they where real serious they could tie it into the fleet system... creating a new PvP Fleet Holding... that would first require the fleet to declare themselves Fed/Klink coalition or Rebel (or something that make sense story wise). I would like a PvP fleet holding to again be mainly cosmetic type stuff... however I doubt Cryptic would ever do that... best we could hope for there would be items and gear that wasn't completely game breaking or changing.