the new vulnerability exploiter tac consoles are not working

mikedigger · January 2014

So I got the new research tier 3 exploiter tac consoles with plus 1.6 crit chance, replaced the tier 2 consoles with plus 6 crit damage, run some tests and here are the results.
Doing conduit elite my dps went down by 20 % my accuracy went down by 8 % and my crit hits went down from 21 % to 12 %, run it now 5 times and within the limits ( errors of the parser) same results, I just wasted 250 k fleet credits on something that makes me weaker.
Now before I blame Cryptic ( which is easy , they just like to TRIBBLE up) I would ask other players to run the test as well and see if they actually hit crits less often after installing the plus crit chance consoles.
Thx

rylanadionysis · January 2014

You know, that would be hilarious as hell if they legit made it a minus chance on accident.

Ive heard nothing like this out of the DPS community though, first ive heard of it.

trillscientist · January 2014

Acutally, the EXPLOITER consoles are supposed to add 8% critical severity. These are the consoles you get from Spire T2 Research.

To increase your critical hit chance you need to buy the "Vulnerability Locator" consoles. These are the consoles you get from Spire T3 Research

I think you got your consoles mixed up somewhere

dahminus · January 2014

Curious...are you using bfaw?

mikedigger · January 2014

a: I was talking abot tier 3 consoles, adding +1.6 crit chance!!!
b: no scv, dhc

dahminus · January 2014

Couple thingsi guess...

Are they the right consoles for your energy type?

Are you flying within 2km?

Did you parse 20 seperate runs for a decent pool?

Is this only pve or pvp testing?

Have you reverted to your old consoles to see if your theory is correct?

What is your build? high crit chance/no severity?

Actually...that may be what we are seeing in terms of the dps drop...if you built exclusively for crth, you wouldve took a huge hit for dps by going for more crth...just a thought anyway.

Im not sure what else it could be...

mikedigger · January 2014

yes it is the right energy type and even if not should only reduce my dps not my crit chance or accuracy
all test are done on conduit elite, which i have done 1000 times so i pretty much fly the same route in my sleep and i did 8 tests, put my old consoles in with + crit d and got my old results back
As I said I am hoping for other to run some tests and see if the experience a drop in accuracy and crit chance as well

dahminus · January 2014

Now...that is concerning...

I know I've seen a fairly large dps boost...

I have been meaning to switch to ap...maybe this will give me some incentive.

What are your current crit/critd stats on the character sheet with the vulnerability equipped?

dahminus · January 2014

Oh. 3 more things

Get a buddy to parse ya

Do you have links to the logs?

What parser are you using? And what part of the parser are you using to identify your dps?

meimeitoo · January 2014

Would be quite serious if it's true. I plan to spend a fortune on these

Somehow I can't believe it's true, though. Wew'll know in 4 days.

mikedigger · January 2014

stats with the tier 3 consoles are:
23.6 acc
19.8 crit c
102.2 crit d
with tier 2 consoles:
23.6 acc
13.4 crit c
126 critd

tggrinc · January 2014

mikedigger wrote: »

So I got the new research tier 3 exploiter tac consoles with plus 1.6 crit chance, replaced the tier 2 consoles with plus 6 crit damage, run some tests and here are the results.
Doing conduit elite my dps went down by 20 % my accuracy went down by 8 % and my crit hits went down from 21 % to 12 %, run it now 5 times and within the limits ( errors of the parser) same results, I just wasted 250 k fleet credits on something that makes me weaker.
Now before I blame Cryptic ( which is easy , they just like to TRIBBLE up) I would ask other players to run the test as well and see if they actually hit crits less often after installing the plus crit chance consoles.
Thx

Here are some theories...

1) Is it possible that there is a point where you get diminishing returns when trading CrtH for CrtD?

.....Example; (I'm making these numbers up), let's say you have 125% c/D with only 20% c/H. As you trade c/D for c/H your DPS goes up until you reach 100% c/D and 40% c/H. But once you pass that ratio your DPS begins to go down.
.....That would mean that you've reach a point of diminishing returns, where the frequency of your crits is no longer compensating for the reduced damage that each crit does.

2) Maybe there is a crit chance cap that can't be overcome.

.....This would behave in a similar manner to the above idea but is tied to the way the game apples the bonus.

.....Example; We know that cannon damage (DC, DHC, etc) is not boosted by certain weapon buffs in the same manner as beams. It's generally considered to be a "hard cap" on cannon damage that beams are not restricted by.
.....Is it possible that crit chance has the same cap? And once you've exceeding the cap you're not going to get any more crits? If that's true you'd get diminishing returns as you lost crit damage on each hit.

.....One way to test this theory would be; Go back to your original build and swap out only one c/D console for the c/H replacement. If your DPS is going down with the very first trade of c/D to c/H, my guess is its something related to #2.

.....I realize that this theory and test would still not explain a DROP in crit hits. If there was a max crti chance, the frequency of crit hits should stay the same as you added more crit consoles.

3) Maybe it's the weapon type that's the problem not the console.

.....This is related to #2. Maybe the problem is only with the way cannons apply the crit chance and not a beam's crit chance.

4) Maybe it's a problem with the crit chance mechanism altogether.

.....I've been told by a fleetmate that they broke the crit hits when running FAW with beams. He says beams won't crit when running FAW since they did an update to try to fix some other problem with FAW.
.....Maybe they broke the crit chance in other areas as well. If that's the case you're new consoles may eventually get fixed.

5) Since few people have the newest consoles, it's entirely possible that they just don't work properly. Cryptic doesn't seem to be big on testing their new items, updates, or fixes before they roll them out. The community seems to be the one making sure things work as advertised.

woodwhity · January 2014

Using Cannons with them and they worked (my parser shows the overall critchance during encounter), but it gets screwed if you use pets, since pets count to you, but they dont benefit from your critchance.

dragonsbite · January 2014

Hitting shields will never show as a crit. So if you're not in a good group you'll be hitting shields more then usual and crit % will go down.

We need a better understanding of what the problem is. Just saying your crit % went from x to x doesn't cut it. I want data showing what your DHCs did during normal firing and what they did during CRF and CSV. If you have fire dots via plasma weapons or the sci console i want to know what that did as well.

You should not have dropped from 21% down to 12% even in a bad group. But without you providing more data instead of a general statement all anyone can do is speculate. I would highly suggest doing fed farm 102 acd or loot o matic or some other foundry mission that has minimal to no shields. I use this for my testing myself to compare acc, crtH and crtD.

Now for myself and others using Fire at Will it's broke and we can't crit that at all. But my plasma beams autofiring are critting at 20% during elite conduit. For me this is correct. However here's the crit % for plasma fire from 5 elite conduit runs.

269 hits/ 0 crits/ 0%
678 hits/ 0 crits/ 0%
737 hits/ 16 crits/ 2%
566 hits/ 16 crits/ 3%
924 hits/ 27 crits/ 3%

Total

3,174 hits/ 59 crits/ 2%

Now i find this extremely odd. I parse other stuff and my fire dots crit at 20% or so. Why did elite Conduit have this strange behavior. Sure you can have a string of RNG not favoring you. But 5 runs that bad. It's statistically possible but not probable in the least.

We also did an Elite CE run where everyone was getting destroyed. My whole team were all dead at the same time. Game has been behaving very strangely the last week or so. I think quite a few things may be Fubar.

mikedigger · January 2014

yeah I have noticed the same thing, teams are dying like flies, I put it on inexperience but yes something is definitively different lately.

Just to my point switched back to the tier 2 consoles and doing my usual damage, tried eevn switching out my dhc for cannons and still did the same damage? looks like i really don"t get the dps principal, I thought dhc do more damage but what do i know

piffalo · January 2014

Myself and several others in my fleet are having this same issue. Its got us all scratching our heads and feeling a little disappointed after all of the time spent unlocking and provisioning them. I am flying in a tact scimi, before I got the fleet crith consoles I was running MK12 green mag gens. This was getting me on avg 19-22k dps on ISE. Since I switched the consoles out I am having a hard time even reaching 19k, usually around 16k. My overall damage is typically around where it has always been. I am using combat log reader, fleet ap beam arrays critd for a BFAW aux2batt build. Unfortunately I do not have any parses saved from prior to compare. We got the consoles right after the latest patch, and this is happening to all other aux2batt beam boat builds in the fleet. Only other energy type really being ran is rom plasma.

dragonsbite · January 2014

Yes but yours can be explained because FAW doesn't crit atm. The op was using cannons.

piffalo · January 2014

Well I would agree except FAW has been broken for a while. I was getting better results with MK12 green tac consoles (26%) than fleet (31%) even with broken FAW. It seems as though the internal code was never changed from the way they were originally made (25%) We have tested both ways and they are definitely broken.

bobiwan · January 2014

Wow.
Like seriously, wow.
Well done community, the placebo effect is strong.
These consoles work as they say they do on the tin. Tested extremely heavily, both types. They are the listed damage boost, as you would note if you actually bothered to look at the weapon tooltip in your tray when swapping them in from old gear with 26%, or parse it.

Yes, there is a point where losing CritD for CritH will hurt your DPS. No duh, if your crit is a tickle, it doesn't matter how often you crit.
Further, there is a (small) diminishing return on CritD it would seem. 4th CritD Tactical console gives 7.9%, not 8%.
Not complaining about that, just noting it.

piffalo · January 2014

So yeah have parsed it. Lots and Lots. Hence the post. Im just having a hard time with what you are saying. So basically what your telling me is that im reading my parses incorrectly? or are you saying when I get a severe dps drop from using the fleet consoles in comparison with green mk12 mag gens its because of an increase of 5% crith? So you are saying that just because it says it in the little pop up in game that the code is actually functioning like it should be no way something like that could get screwed up eh? So yeah not same situation as OP but still a problem here. In my case no critd was taken away, crith was added along side of an energy dmg% increase. So maybe you can explain that. Preferably in an insulting way again.

darkelipse04 · January 2014

Ditto; I've noticed a drop in DPS since switching to the new consoles.

I guess they don't view this as an issue since BranFlakes hasn't marked this thread as "Team Investigating"

robdmc · January 2014

This may sound strange but what is the energy type of the people who are affected and those that are not. Maybe Some are affected because certain energy types are affected.

Another possibility is that someone Using plasma accidentally picked up a plasma projectile console instead of a plasma energy weapon console. that would be a reason why greens are out preforming them. Its not like any of these consoles have a distinctive icon. They are one character in text and right next to each other.

darkelipse04 · January 2014

robdmc wrote: »

This may sound strange but what is the energy type of the people who are affected and those that are not. Maybe Some are affected because certain energy types are affected.

Another possibility is that someone Using plasma accidentally picked up a plasma projectile console instead of a plasma energy weapon console. that would be a reason why greens are out preforming them. Its not like any of these consoles have a distinctive icon. They are one character in text and right next to each other.

I'm using all Antiproton weapons (not Voth antiproton).

bobiwan · January 2014

Interesting, I'll bite. Polaron. Parses increase and seems to be wai there.
I don't think, unless one makes a direct comparison parse now, beam FAWboats should be applicable to 'I lost DPS via these consoles' - it doesn't crit at the moment, you do lose DPS as a result.

newromulan1 · January 2014

Are there fleets that have reached T3 research that are letting people buy the critH consoles?

darkelipse04 · January 2014

newromulan1 wrote: »

Are there fleets that have reached T3 research that are letting people buy the critH consoles?

We've reached T3...

squeezedbe · January 2014

bobiwan wrote: »

Interesting, I'll bite. Polaron. Parses increase and seems to be wai there.
I don't think, unless one makes a direct comparison parse now, beam FAWboats should be applicable to 'I lost DPS via these consoles' - it doesn't crit at the moment, you do lose DPS as a result.

Explain to me then why there is even DPS loss on FAWboats vs the Purple XII consoles we all knew from the past? Even with the FAW not critting atm i see a random difference of around 3 to 4k DPS loss vs my old Purple XII consoles. Parsed enough runs so far to claim this one.

I tested with a full set of AP Crith fleet consoles vs 4 Purple XII AP consoles asswell as 4 Fleet CritH plasma consoles vs 4 purple XII plasma consoles and the same story on Disruptor.

I also tested a few mixed sets like 3 Fleet CritH with 1 Fleet CritD and so on

And i also tested cannon based builds 'yeah the ones who still do CRIT' and even there i get the same results a dmg loss for around 3 to 4k compared to my older Purple XII sets.

So in short i have this theory for now. The fleet tac consoles are broken and their intential percentage on Tribble was 25.5 procent energy boosting instead of the 31.2 procent they changed towards afterwards. What if they made a mistake in the coding for the actual dmg your dealing? So the consoles are stuck at their old values namely 25.5 procent?

PS. We reached T3 about a week ago, thats how long i am already testing these new consoles out vs. the old tac consoles we all know from the exchange.

dragonsbite · January 2014

First off if the consoles only provided 25.5% damage increase vs the 30% ones you wouldn't loose 3-4k dps. The % increase is to base MK 0 weapon damage. For a Beam array the base would be 100 damage. You can verify this by entering non sector space. Look at the actual weapon itself to see the net gain from consoles. For damage increase from weapon power look at your weapons on your weapon tool tray.

For 25.5% consoles
Base 100*1.255=125.5
Net gain=25.5 damage
Weapon power at 125=25.5*2.5=63.75

For 28.1%
Base 100*1.281=128.1
Net gain=28.1 damage
Weapon power at 125=28.1*2.5=70.25

For 30% consoles
Base 100*1.3=130
Net gain=30 damage
Weapon power at 125=30*2.5=75

For 31.9% consoles
Base 100*1.319=131.9
Net gain=31.9 damage
Weapon power at 125=25.5*2.5=79.75

Ya that's it for extra damage via tac consoles. And there is no Diminishing returns. Stacking them they each provide the exact same bonus from base as above.

Now please provide some actual hard numbers. Saying something is broke without proof just doesn't work well. And again FAW can not crit atm. So that explains beam boat dps loss. If any others are suffering a loss post some numbers please.

squeezedbe · January 2014

With pleasure:

AVG parse on the Scatt Volley FBC a2b build with AP Fleet Tac consoles:

CombatLogReader?Cure Space[6:22]? Dmg(DPS) ?SqueeZer 6.234.521(20.241) Orchid 2.753.007(9.146) Willem 1.926.012(6.484) Ryexane 1.757.353(8.289) Bravo 388.990(3.214)

Most of the times i am around 20k DPS on each run 'well fluctuates between 18 to 22k'

AVG parse on the Scatt Volley FBC a2b build with only the fleet tac consoles slotted out in favour of the old Purple XII AP consoles:

CombatLogReader?Cure Space[5:21]? Dmg(DPS) ?SqueeZer 6.593.102(25.957) Baphomet 2.513.736(11.801) mrslokisgi 1.438.546(8.036) Zysh 1.373.046(8.581) Bravo 976.109(6.100)

Most of the times it runs between 21k to 27k DPS then

And now the ball is back in your camp cause i was using Cannons and Scatt volley on this build so you cant yell 'Its the broken FAW' once again right.

As stated before i also see a drop in DPS output on FAW a2b boats VS the OLDER TAC CONSOLES which where not even GRANTING CRITH OR CRITD bonusses.

So basicly in the end ... if a FAW a2b boat on Purple XII Plasma consoles 'none fleet' grants 30 procent per console and if we stuff a ship like that and get these parses out :

CombatLogReader?Cure Space[5:45]? Dmg(DPS) ?Dhael Sari 6.146.211(19.267) Traxx Trai 2.070.863(10.201) Flying Dut 1.730.792(7.867) Hannes 912.656(5.245) Sierra 467.650(3.569)

of at least 18k DPS to 22k dps

And if we slot all Fleet Tac consoles with Plasma boosting asswell which should grant 31.2 procent which is higher then 30 any day right?

and we then suddenly get with the exact same build these parses out on avg:

CombatLogReader?Cure Space[6:34]? Dmg(DPS) ?Dhael Sari 5.532.241(17.234) Dee 2.653.910(10.701) Willem 2.292.115(9.510) Face 905.176(3.970) Vil'er 491.023(4.384)

avg between 15 to 18k dps

Then pls do explain this to me sir cause the FAW and CRIT is broken on BOTH OF THESE consoles right?

So far tested the Fleet AP / Plasma / Disruptor and Phaser consoles and i have loads of more parses on AVG the old Purple XII consoles grant me MORE DPS then the new and shiny Fleet ones on all of these energy types both on Cannon Scatt as BFAW builds

doffingcomrade · January 2014

These results are not very meaningful: You're parsing results of flying with totally different groups, attempting to draw a conclusion without adequately controlling for variables. The first parse clearly shows that your team is of grossly inferior quality compared to the second.

Pick a single static target somewhere, like, say, an ISE transformer, alone, with no teammates assisting into you. Then, just unload them into thing for an hour straight. Change your consoles, then unload for another hour. That way the ONLY thing that has changed is your consoles: Not your teammates, not enemies flying around wildly at random, just you, unloading into a static target at a fixed range.

squeezedbe · January 2014

Lol beleave me i got enough of these mixed team parses and also have enough 'solid fleetmate' teamed parses showing pretty much the exact same.

But just because you guys dont want to look at parses unless they are made as you want them to be made i will do a few runs on ISE with my fleetmates tonight and parse while i am the only one shooting to make you happy ok.

the new vulnerability exploiter tac consoles are not working

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