I do follow this discussion and I fail to see him guilty of what you claim he was saying. I suggest you go over those postings more carefully. And it wasn't the "fool" that made your posting offensive. It's not exactly nice to deem people 'unworthy of life', you know?
Well, what I said, precisely, was that if he is not willing to do what it might take, to save his own life, then yes, he is unworthy of it. And I'll pass that judgement on anyone of decently sound mind and body.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Well, what I said, precisely, was that if he is not willing to do what it might take, to save his own life, then yes, he is unworthy of it. And I'll pass that judgement on anyone of decently sound mind and body.
A falsely forced choice from a false dilemma that hides the vast possibilities of a vast universe, all because in fiction it's very easy to exclude any and all perspectives that you disagree with.
And saying someone is "unworthy of life" even in some passive-aggressive implied sense is, by definition, a borderline threat. I'll be kind and not report it, but I do ask you for some introspection, if maturity is out of the question.
I didn't ask for your respect (and have received far less than none from you so far). In fact I don't ask for anything at all, except maybe that you need to expand your horizons in literature beyond objectivist fantasies.
There are a few very good Trek novels. Not all are quite so good, but even the worst are more enlightening than "Wizard's First Rule."
Umm, I've read well over 40 Trek novels, mainly when I was in my teens. My last collection, along with all my PERN books, got stolen a couple years ago.
Granted, I've only read 1 TNG novel, and nothing past that, all the ones I've read were TOS.
My particular favourites were Dreadnought & BattleStations! (I really enjoyed Piper's character in those books.)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Umm, I've read well over 40 Trek novels, mainly when I was in my teens. My last collection, along with all my PERN books, got stolen a couple years ago.
Granted, I've only read 1 TNG novel, and nothing past that, all the ones I've read were TOS.
My particular favourites were Dreadnought & BattleStations! (I really enjoyed Piper's character in those books.)
I assume you've heard of the concept of a "Mary Sue", and the prototype of much of the concept was the Piper character.
Then again she shares a lot of the unrealistic and exaggerated positive qualities of Richard Rahl and the power fantasies derived thereof so I can see the appeal.
I was about to mention Dreadnought! as one of the worst novels, but opinions vary of course.
A falsely forced choice from a false dilemma that hides the vast possibilities of a vast universe, all because in fiction it's very easy to exclude any and all perspectives that you disagree with.
And saying someone is "unworthy of life" even in some passive-aggressive implied sense is, by definition, a borderline threat. I'll be kind and not report it, but I do ask you for some introspection, if maturity is out of the question.
I don't believe I made ANY kind of threat, beyond the implied, I would not help you, if you will not help yourself. I do feel I have the right to think what I will, and to think of others as I will, based upon their words & actions.
And I'm pretty reasonably mature, to be honest. (Other than playing computer games, some would say that's being a kid still, lol). But I have a decent amount of self respect, self discipline, and can accord other's basic human respect and decency, til they do something to make me lose that respect for them. And above all others, I KNOW it's not all about "ME ME ME", as too many others in this world fail to recognize. (Go Christmas shopping sometime, you'll see what I mean.)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
I assume you've heard of the concept of a "Mary Sue", and the prototype of much of the concept was the Piper character.
Then again she shares a lot of the unrealistic and exaggerated positive qualities of Richard Rahl and the power fantasies derived thereof so I can see the appeal.
I was about to mention Dreadnought! as one of the worst novels, but opinions vary of course.
I've read that trope, but it's been a while. Please, refresh my memory of what a "Mary Sue" is?
And if you remember, a lot of the events in those books, made her feel sick to her stomach, at what others were doing, and at some of the things she ended up having to do. Just to survive.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
I don't believe I made ANY kind of threat, beyond the implied, I would not help you, if you will not help yourself. I do feel I have the right to think what I will, and to think of others as I will, based upon their words & actions.
And I'm pretty reasonably mature, to be honest. (Other than playing computer games, some would say that's being a kid still, lol). But I have a decent amount of self respect, self discipline, and can accord other's basic human respect and decency, til they do something to make me lose that respect for them. And above all others, I KNOW it's not all about "ME ME ME", as too many others in this world fail to recognize. (Go Christmas shopping sometime, you'll see what I mean.)
So what I'm getting is a tight logic loop, thickly insulated, of objectivism. I guess there's nothing more to say here, because you've already apparently figured everything out, are absorbing no new input, and are satisfied with your own answers.
I'll be back if someone else has anything to say of interest.
I've read that trope, but it's been a while. Please, refresh my memory of what a "Mary Sue" is?
And if you remember, a lot of the events in those books, made her feel sick to her stomach, at what others were doing, and at some of the things she ended up having to do. Just to survive.
Mary Sues are power fantasy characters. Usually with great destiny or something like that, irresistable sexually, impossibly perfect except in flaws that are actually strengths in disguise like being "too honest" or "makes everyone jealous of them". There are many examples of them in fiction, but Piper was considered a prototype of sorts of the modern form.
Goodkind falsely forced choices with artificially removed alternatives based entirely on the author's need to justify cruelty, torture, and murder in a way that excited him.
Sort of like the "answer my scary dilemma if you DARE" game.
But as I said one post ago, I'm done with you. I have nothing more to say that would sway you in the slightest, as you believe you are correct in all things because a book told you so.
So what I'm getting is a tight logic loop, thickly insulated, of objectivism. I guess there's nothing more to say here, because you've already apparently figured everything out, are absorbing no new input, and are satisfied with your own answers.
I'll be back if someone else has anything to say of interest.
Well, honestly, I guess I'm done as well, and probably won't be back, since talking with people who refuse to admit, that any viewpoint other than their own, has any validity, is futile, (especially over the internet). So cya, and may our paths never cross again.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
The Federation would never in a million years follow such a course of action. Need I remind you that one of the reasons why the Federation was founded was to escape the nightmare of war.
Then you have no idea what the phrase means.
A strong society capable of defending themselves is a hell of a lot more peaceful than a weak and pacifist one.
The only reason Risa thrives on that mindset is because its surrounded by star systems that would gladly shoot things for them.
You can't travel the wild galaxy without a gun because there other things out there that have them, and they're more than happy to use them.
A strong society capable of defending themselves is a hell of a lot more peaceful than a weak and pacifist one.
The only reason Risa thrives on that mindset is because its surrounded by star systems that would gladly shoot things for them.
You can't travel the wild galaxy without a gun because there other things out there that have them, and they're more than happy to use them.
There is a reason that Federation starships have strong shields, photon torpedoes, and phaser banks and arrays.
Granted, some take it too far (as this thread has shown) but Starfleet is an exploratory service, a diplomatic core, and yes, an armed fleet when needed.
Well, what I said, precisely, was that if he is not willing to do what it might take, to save his own life, then yes, he is unworthy of it. And I'll pass that judgement on anyone of decently sound mind and body.
You are certainly free to state that you "won't help him" as you did in a later post, but generally proclaiming that you link anyone's 'worth of life' to certain conditions (presumably the 'right' mindset) and your talk about 'decently sound mind and body' is indeed highly offensive.
I don't want to dwell deeper into this, but as amalefactor did so will I give you the advice to broaden your horizon as well.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
You are certainly free to state that you "won't help him" as you did in a later post, but generally proclaiming that you link anyone's 'worth of life' to certain conditions (presumably the 'right' mindset) and your talk about 'decently sound mind and body' is indeed highly offensive.
I don't want to dwell deeper into this, but as amalefactor did so will I give you the advice to broaden your horizon as well.
Well, before I duck out of here for good, what I meant by that "decently sound mind and body", was if someone was say, sick, or ill, and thus incapable of defending themselves, I would galdly stand up and try to save them if I could. Or if they were disabled, Or a kid. Or a pregnant woman. Etc ect.
I swear, some people are all too ready to take offense. Hope that clears up my meaning on THAT one, not sure how much clearer I can put it. Sheesh.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Well, before I duck out of here for good, what I meant by that "decently sound mind and body", was if someone was say, sick, or ill, and thus incapable of defending themselves, I would galdly stand up and try to save them if I could. Or if they were disabled, Or a kid. Or a pregnant woman. Etc ect.
I swear, some people are all too ready to take offense. Hope that clears up my meaning on THAT one, not sure how much clearer I can put it. Sheesh.
You're only looking worse, after complaining about people insulting you (that weren't) after insulting them (that you did), that others are "too ready to take offense" when you started playing the victim in this thread.
And yes, I'm offended, even after your retraction, because you're implying that no one would make the decisions you don't like unless they were somehow insane or mentally disabled. That is very presumptive and immature.
Stop reading books that tell you how stupid everyone is and how smart you are for reading them. You'll be much better for it.
You're only looking worse, after complaining about people insulting you (that weren't) after insulting them (that you did), that others are "too ready to take offense" when you started playing the victim in this thread.
And yes, I'm offended, even after your retraction, because you're implying that no one would make the decisions you don't like unless they were somehow insane or mentally disabled. That is very presumptive and immature.
Stop reading books that tell you how stupid everyone is and how smart you are for reading them. You'll be much better for it.
I am sooo done with this troll fest. One, it wasn't a "retraction", it was the original damn meaning, and two, I have every right to stand up for myself, after being insulted. But whatever.
New year's not even a day old, and already have people being stupid and whiny. Oh, and refusing to have any respect for other. Shortest holiday season ever, I swear.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
And IIRC, the Enterprise-J was described as using "quantum warp" on Doug Drexler's site - perhaps a hint to the Federation eventually finding an alternative propulsion system not dependent on subspace?
Anyway... real world examples aside, there is precisely zero evidence of the Federation attacking non-military targets since the Romulan War. The Voth "civilians" on the sphere - like the friendly archaeologist - are well back behind the lines, while the Medics and specialists on the ground are about as non-combatant as the engineering and science officers deployed by Starfleet on the ground. Even the giant Voth ship is notably a "fortress" ship implying a military role and crew.
So what... the Federation in STO is being as pacifist as possible. It's targetting enemy forces rather than Voth civilians, while fighting defensively against Klingon, Borg and Tholian aggression. If Starfleet is more militarised, it's just respecting the number of threats it now faces.
I wholeheartedly agree that STO's mechanics work far better for the overtly feudal and warlike KDF, but the Fed side is not *that* bad.
Agreed.
STO is set in a period where Starfleet is fighting for the survival of the Federation. No amount of "moral" high-mindedness will change that.
BUT... What is so unethical about what the Federation is doing? I don't see anything that is.
Fighting the Voth? The Voth have no interest in peace. If they could, they'd exterminate the entire human race. Heck, they'd hunt down all the people like Sela and Alexander who are half-human just to make sure no trace remained. And probably destroy all computer records of the race's existence.... Yes, the Voth leadership hates humans THAT much.
Fighting the Klingons? J'mpok started it. And the only alternative is to let J'mpok go on a witchhunt looking for people he suspects of being Undine in disguise. Do they exist? yes. do we have reason to believe they are as big a threat as J'mpok claims? No.
If you want proof that the Federation tries diplomatic solutions, well just look at what happened to Loriss. :P
I am sooo done with this troll fest. One, it wasn't a "retraction", it was the original damn meaning, and two, I have every right to stand up for myself, after being insulted. But whatever.
New year's not even a day old, and already have people being stupid and whiny. Oh, and refusing to have any respect for other. Shortest holiday season ever, I swear.
Eh, forget what I posted. This person's projecting badly and it's simply not worth even trying to communicate with him.
You're only looking worse, after complaining about people insulting you (that weren't) after insulting them (that you did), that others are "too ready to take offense" when you started playing the victim in this thread.
And yes, I'm offended, even after your retraction, because you're implying that no one would make the decisions you don't like unless they were somehow insane or mentally disabled. That is very presumptive and immature.
Stop reading books that tell you how stupid everyone is and how smart you are for reading them. You'll be much better for it.
Now, now. Let the troll go, before the sunlight comes out. -It might crack.
Now, now. Let the troll go, before the sunlight comes out. -It might crack.
I'm skeptical about the troll thing. Often people call themselves "trolls" or make a claim to trolling when they're pointed out for bad ideas, contradictory statements, or hypocrisy.
I think that guy just got really excited when a fantasy book with lots of torture and bondage in it said that everyone is really stupid and that you're really smart if you agree with everything the author says. And wanted to share his "philosophy" here of all places.
STO is set in a period where Starfleet is fighting for the survival of the Federation. No amount of "moral" high-mindedness will change that.
BUT... What is so unethical about what the Federation is doing? I don't see anything that is.
Fighting the Voth? The Voth have no interest in peace. If they could, they'd exterminate the entire human race. Heck, they'd hunt down all the people like Sela and Alexander who are half-human just to make sure no trace remained. And probably destroy all computer records of the race's existence.... Yes, the Voth leadership hates humans THAT much.
Fighting the Klingons? J'mpok started it. And the only alternative is to let J'mpok go on a witchhunt looking for people he suspects of being Undine in disguise. Do they exist? yes. do we have reason to believe they are as big a threat as J'mpok claims? No.
If you want proof that the Federation tries diplomatic solutions, well just look at what happened to Loriss. :P
Who says the Voth have no interest in peace?
Afaik, the Voth is no hivemind. They have dissidents. That means that some Voths are willing to come to a different solution, than the one being put upon them by doctrine.
You, yourself state that the Voth leadership don't want peace. I am sure that might boil down to a handful of dinosaurs, not planets upon planets. And don't forget the saurus' have suppressed other species by 'convincing' them into beliving in the Voth doctrine. Why not visit one of those places and figure out how popular the Voth really is.
Who says the Voth have no interest in peace?
Afaik, the Voth is no hivemind. They have dissidents. That means that some Voths are willing to come to a different solution, than the one being put upon them by doctrine.
You, yourself state that the Voth leadership don't want peace. I am sure that might boil down to a handful of dinosaurs, not planets upon planets. And don't forget the saurus' have suppressed other species by 'convincing' them into beliving in the Voth doctrine. Why not visit one of those places and figure out how popular the Voth really is.
I'd love it if this game had a more Trek-like chance to influence their culture, perhaps even find a way to resolve the conflict before it escalates further.
I'm certain whoever the Voth are fighting are scary in their own right if the Voth think they need Omega particles to deal with them.
It'd lead to a nice complex campaign arc if this was TV series, apart from the "KILL EM ALL" saber rattlers that get upset the moment a conversation happens on the show.
I'm skeptical about the troll thing. Often people call themselves "trolls" or make a claim to trolling when they're pointed out for bad ideas, contradictory statements, or hypocrisy.
I think that guy just got really excited when a fantasy book with lots of torture and bondage in it said that everyone is really stupid and that you're really smart if you agree with everything the author says. And wanted to share his "philosophy" here of all places.
You are right. I am sorry for using the T word. It was indeed uncalled for.
Who says the Voth have no interest in peace?
Afaik, the Voth is no hivemind. They have dissidents. That means that some Voths are willing to come to a different solution, than the one being put upon them by doctrine.
You, yourself state that the Voth leadership don't want peace. I am sure that might boil down to a handful of dinosaurs, not planets upon planets. And don't forget the saurus' have suppressed other species by 'convincing' them into beliving in the Voth doctrine. Why not visit one of those places and figure out how popular the Voth really is.
The dissidents are few in number, and oh yeah.... they don't fly the starships.... Thus in terms of the war effort, they're irrelevant. Negotiating with a few dissidents won't change the fact that the Federation is at war with the Voth government. And as we've seen, the government is big on silencing dissent, permanently.
The dissidents are few in number, and oh yeah.... they don't fly the starships.... Thus in terms of the war effort, they're irrelevant. Negotiating with a few dissidents won't change the fact that the Federation is at war with the Voth government. And as we've seen, the government is big on silencing dissent, permanently.
So? you're missing the point. The Voth war will continue without him. Other than wanting him dead, the Voth leadership is unaffected by his defection. The Fortress ship is still there mass-producing Voth Dreadnoughts and transporting more soldiers in the the battlezone. As far as the war is concerned, a few defections are of no consequence.
So? you're missing the point. The Voth war will continue without him. Other than wanting him dead, the Voth leadership is unaffected by his defection. The Fortress ship is still there mass-producing Voth Dreadnoughts and transporting more soldiers in the the battlezone. As far as the war is concerned, a few defections are of no consequence.
What point?
This thread has wandered so far off from where it started that I'm assuming this is yet another "WE ARE AT WAR" broad rubber stamp for anything and everything.
We're already attacking the Voth fortress ship in game. It doesn't seem to explode when it's taken out as much as seem to be crippled and disabled, which is probably good thing not only for the possibly millions of crew inside, but also for the huge chunks of that thing crashing all over the inner lining of the Dyson sphere.
I mean that question by the way. What point is there to make left apart from "all right we're shooting at them"?
I think the morality issue with the Federation was made on purpose and it was up to people like Picard to see past the paranoid people around him running the Federation.
Wasn't there a DS9 episode where O'brian said, and I will do my best to quote: "I was always told that humanity had grown past hate and anger, but in reality we are just savages".
Like I said, I think the whole federation moral issue was put in on purpose.
I think the morality issue with the Federation was made on purpose and it was up to people like Picard to see past the paranoid people around him running the Federation.
Wasn't there a DS9 episode where O'brian said, and I will do my best to quote: "I was always told that humanity had grown past hate and anger, but in reality we are just savages".
Like I said, I think the whole federation moral issue was put in on purpose.
That's fine, and it's good to have that sort of conflict. It'd be boring if everything was super peachy after all.
The thing is some people find the grey area and go hog-wild about it and totally ignore the rest, that majority of Trek that's about this cool space Federation that's generally a nice thing to be in, where volunteers go into space and explore strange new worlds, seek out new life and new civilizations and boldly go where no one has gone before.
And some want grimdark war stories without end. Not a cool space battle here and there, or even a war season, but basically "Do what the BSG remake did and do it to everything, forever".
This thread has wandered so far off from where it started that I'm assuming this is yet another "WE ARE AT WAR" broad rubber stamp for anything and everything.
We're already attacking the Voth fortress ship in game. It doesn't seem to explode when it's taken out as much as seem to be crippled and disabled, which is probably good thing not only for the possibly millions of crew inside, but also for the huge chunks of that thing crashing all over the inner lining of the Dyson sphere.
I mean that question by the way. What point is there to make left apart from "all right we're shooting at them"?
The point is that the Voth will not stop until their government cannot continue to fight. They don't negotiate, they take what they want and kill or otherwise incapacitate whoever gets in their way.
Comments
Well, what I said, precisely, was that if he is not willing to do what it might take, to save his own life, then yes, he is unworthy of it. And I'll pass that judgement on anyone of decently sound mind and body.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
A falsely forced choice from a false dilemma that hides the vast possibilities of a vast universe, all because in fiction it's very easy to exclude any and all perspectives that you disagree with.
And saying someone is "unworthy of life" even in some passive-aggressive implied sense is, by definition, a borderline threat. I'll be kind and not report it, but I do ask you for some introspection, if maturity is out of the question.
Umm, I've read well over 40 Trek novels, mainly when I was in my teens. My last collection, along with all my PERN books, got stolen a couple years ago.
Granted, I've only read 1 TNG novel, and nothing past that, all the ones I've read were TOS.
My particular favourites were Dreadnought & BattleStations! (I really enjoyed Piper's character in those books.)
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
I assume you've heard of the concept of a "Mary Sue", and the prototype of much of the concept was the Piper character.
Then again she shares a lot of the unrealistic and exaggerated positive qualities of Richard Rahl and the power fantasies derived thereof so I can see the appeal.
I was about to mention Dreadnought! as one of the worst novels, but opinions vary of course.
I don't believe I made ANY kind of threat, beyond the implied, I would not help you, if you will not help yourself. I do feel I have the right to think what I will, and to think of others as I will, based upon their words & actions.
And I'm pretty reasonably mature, to be honest. (Other than playing computer games, some would say that's being a kid still, lol). But I have a decent amount of self respect, self discipline, and can accord other's basic human respect and decency, til they do something to make me lose that respect for them. And above all others, I KNOW it's not all about "ME ME ME", as too many others in this world fail to recognize. (Go Christmas shopping sometime, you'll see what I mean.)
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
I've read that trope, but it's been a while. Please, refresh my memory of what a "Mary Sue" is?
And if you remember, a lot of the events in those books, made her feel sick to her stomach, at what others were doing, and at some of the things she ended up having to do. Just to survive.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
So what I'm getting is a tight logic loop, thickly insulated, of objectivism. I guess there's nothing more to say here, because you've already apparently figured everything out, are absorbing no new input, and are satisfied with your own answers.
I'll be back if someone else has anything to say of interest.
Mary Sues are power fantasy characters. Usually with great destiny or something like that, irresistable sexually, impossibly perfect except in flaws that are actually strengths in disguise like being "too honest" or "makes everyone jealous of them". There are many examples of them in fiction, but Piper was considered a prototype of sorts of the modern form.
Goodkind falsely forced choices with artificially removed alternatives based entirely on the author's need to justify cruelty, torture, and murder in a way that excited him.
Sort of like the "answer my scary dilemma if you DARE" game.
But as I said one post ago, I'm done with you. I have nothing more to say that would sway you in the slightest, as you believe you are correct in all things because a book told you so.
Well, honestly, I guess I'm done as well, and probably won't be back, since talking with people who refuse to admit, that any viewpoint other than their own, has any validity, is futile, (especially over the internet). So cya, and may our paths never cross again.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Then you have no idea what the phrase means.
A strong society capable of defending themselves is a hell of a lot more peaceful than a weak and pacifist one.
The only reason Risa thrives on that mindset is because its surrounded by star systems that would gladly shoot things for them.
You can't travel the wild galaxy without a gun because there other things out there that have them, and they're more than happy to use them.
There is a reason that Federation starships have strong shields, photon torpedoes, and phaser banks and arrays.
Granted, some take it too far (as this thread has shown) but Starfleet is an exploratory service, a diplomatic core, and yes, an armed fleet when needed.
You are certainly free to state that you "won't help him" as you did in a later post, but generally proclaiming that you link anyone's 'worth of life' to certain conditions (presumably the 'right' mindset) and your talk about 'decently sound mind and body' is indeed highly offensive.
I don't want to dwell deeper into this, but as amalefactor did so will I give you the advice to broaden your horizon as well.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Well, before I duck out of here for good, what I meant by that "decently sound mind and body", was if someone was say, sick, or ill, and thus incapable of defending themselves, I would galdly stand up and try to save them if I could. Or if they were disabled, Or a kid. Or a pregnant woman. Etc ect.
I swear, some people are all too ready to take offense. Hope that clears up my meaning on THAT one, not sure how much clearer I can put it. Sheesh.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
You're only looking worse, after complaining about people insulting you (that weren't) after insulting them (that you did), that others are "too ready to take offense" when you started playing the victim in this thread.
And yes, I'm offended, even after your retraction, because you're implying that no one would make the decisions you don't like unless they were somehow insane or mentally disabled. That is very presumptive and immature.
Stop reading books that tell you how stupid everyone is and how smart you are for reading them. You'll be much better for it.
I am sooo done with this troll fest. One, it wasn't a "retraction", it was the original damn meaning, and two, I have every right to stand up for myself, after being insulted. But whatever.
New year's not even a day old, and already have people being stupid and whiny. Oh, and refusing to have any respect for other. Shortest holiday season ever, I swear.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
STO is set in a period where Starfleet is fighting for the survival of the Federation. No amount of "moral" high-mindedness will change that.
BUT... What is so unethical about what the Federation is doing? I don't see anything that is.
Fighting the Voth? The Voth have no interest in peace. If they could, they'd exterminate the entire human race. Heck, they'd hunt down all the people like Sela and Alexander who are half-human just to make sure no trace remained. And probably destroy all computer records of the race's existence.... Yes, the Voth leadership hates humans THAT much.
Fighting the Klingons? J'mpok started it. And the only alternative is to let J'mpok go on a witchhunt looking for people he suspects of being Undine in disguise. Do they exist? yes. do we have reason to believe they are as big a threat as J'mpok claims? No.
If you want proof that the Federation tries diplomatic solutions, well just look at what happened to Loriss. :P
My character Tsin'xing
Eh, forget what I posted. This person's projecting badly and it's simply not worth even trying to communicate with him.
Now, now. Let the troll go, before the sunlight comes out. -It might crack.
I'm skeptical about the troll thing. Often people call themselves "trolls" or make a claim to trolling when they're pointed out for bad ideas, contradictory statements, or hypocrisy.
I think that guy just got really excited when a fantasy book with lots of torture and bondage in it said that everyone is really stupid and that you're really smart if you agree with everything the author says. And wanted to share his "philosophy" here of all places.
Who says the Voth have no interest in peace?
Afaik, the Voth is no hivemind. They have dissidents. That means that some Voths are willing to come to a different solution, than the one being put upon them by doctrine.
You, yourself state that the Voth leadership don't want peace. I am sure that might boil down to a handful of dinosaurs, not planets upon planets. And don't forget the saurus' have suppressed other species by 'convincing' them into beliving in the Voth doctrine. Why not visit one of those places and figure out how popular the Voth really is.
I'd love it if this game had a more Trek-like chance to influence their culture, perhaps even find a way to resolve the conflict before it escalates further.
I'm certain whoever the Voth are fighting are scary in their own right if the Voth think they need Omega particles to deal with them.
It'd lead to a nice complex campaign arc if this was TV series, apart from the "KILL EM ALL" saber rattlers that get upset the moment a conversation happens on the show.
You are right. I am sorry for using the T word. It was indeed uncalled for.
It's all right. Thing is I think some trolls can be funny. But there was nothing funny about that guy.
My character Tsin'xing
Except for the guy in Tier 5 events. Spoilers.
But don't let that interrupt your war party.
My character Tsin'xing
What point?
This thread has wandered so far off from where it started that I'm assuming this is yet another "WE ARE AT WAR" broad rubber stamp for anything and everything.
We're already attacking the Voth fortress ship in game. It doesn't seem to explode when it's taken out as much as seem to be crippled and disabled, which is probably good thing not only for the possibly millions of crew inside, but also for the huge chunks of that thing crashing all over the inner lining of the Dyson sphere.
I mean that question by the way. What point is there to make left apart from "all right we're shooting at them"?
Wasn't there a DS9 episode where O'brian said, and I will do my best to quote: "I was always told that humanity had grown past hate and anger, but in reality we are just savages".
Like I said, I think the whole federation moral issue was put in on purpose.
That's fine, and it's good to have that sort of conflict. It'd be boring if everything was super peachy after all.
The thing is some people find the grey area and go hog-wild about it and totally ignore the rest, that majority of Trek that's about this cool space Federation that's generally a nice thing to be in, where volunteers go into space and explore strange new worlds, seek out new life and new civilizations and boldly go where no one has gone before.
And some want grimdark war stories without end. Not a cool space battle here and there, or even a war season, but basically "Do what the BSG remake did and do it to everything, forever".
My character Tsin'xing