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Children's Toys reward is practically useless
mercuriciodide
Member Posts: 342
There is a three day cooldown to get the negotiate ("nadorc") mission.
You have to use a lot of particle traces to power each artifact.
With a set of purple doffs that have resolve and one critical trait you have like 25% chance of creating a green console. You also have a large chance of creating a blue one.
Then, even if you get a purple console, you're likely to get one that is worth less than the price of one particle trace. Since the game uses an exclamation point in the awarding of a purple console, one would think that that wouldn't be sarcastic.
But, it definitely is sarcastic because that purple console that's worth 39k on the Exchange is worth less than one methogenic particle trace (40k on average).
The doffs that have resolve and one critical trait are very expensive. I paid 5 million EC for just one of them as I recall. Doffs with two of the critical traits are beyond the means of players who don't live in the game. As for three traits... I don't even remember seeing those on the Exchange -- except maybe for a Borg doff that costs 100 million or more.
With the long cooldown for the mission, the high cost of particle traces (or time investment if you grind them with doff missions and/or nebula scanning), the expense of having decent scientists (optional, but still a factor for most people) to power the artifact, the time it takes to power the artifact, and most of all -- the low chance of even getting a purple console -- this mission is simply broken.
The most broken aspect, besides having a high chance of getting worthless blue and green consoles is that you're much more likely to get a worthless purple console than you are something useful. I've seen the stats on a diehard player who did like 600 of these. That player likely had Borg doffs or something else that's very very expensive. Is that what this should really be about: catering to the player who is going to grind 600 or more of them and have doffs that cost 100 million each?
And, if that's the case, why is the mission listed as uncommon (nadorc)? :rolleyes:
We get purple consoles as a free drop every time we turn in a Voth commendation. That makes the exclamation point for getting a worthless purple console even more silly.
It's time to fix this mission. Here is how:
Reduce nadorc cooldown to 20 hours.
Eliminate the chance of getting anything but a purple or blue console. Blue consoles should be nothing less than XII and should not include the worthless consoles, only consoles that are worth at least more than the price of a methogenic trace. The chance of a blue console should be low if you have crit traits for your doffs.
Give a very small chance of getting a very rare console.
Make field generators very rare -- since they're almost the only thing nadorc is used for now, as far as I know. Apply this retroactively so all existing purple XII field gens are very rare. Purple XI field gens would move up to XII rare. Players would get field gens on a critical. Make the critical chance cater to the people who bought Borg doffs and so forth by making it a small chance unless you have the mega doffs. This would still improve the price of field gens on Exchange and not require people to try to grind hundreds of artifacts to get one.
You have to use a lot of particle traces to power each artifact.
With a set of purple doffs that have resolve and one critical trait you have like 25% chance of creating a green console. You also have a large chance of creating a blue one.
Then, even if you get a purple console, you're likely to get one that is worth less than the price of one particle trace. Since the game uses an exclamation point in the awarding of a purple console, one would think that that wouldn't be sarcastic.
But, it definitely is sarcastic because that purple console that's worth 39k on the Exchange is worth less than one methogenic particle trace (40k on average).
The doffs that have resolve and one critical trait are very expensive. I paid 5 million EC for just one of them as I recall. Doffs with two of the critical traits are beyond the means of players who don't live in the game. As for three traits... I don't even remember seeing those on the Exchange -- except maybe for a Borg doff that costs 100 million or more.
With the long cooldown for the mission, the high cost of particle traces (or time investment if you grind them with doff missions and/or nebula scanning), the expense of having decent scientists (optional, but still a factor for most people) to power the artifact, the time it takes to power the artifact, and most of all -- the low chance of even getting a purple console -- this mission is simply broken.
The most broken aspect, besides having a high chance of getting worthless blue and green consoles is that you're much more likely to get a worthless purple console than you are something useful. I've seen the stats on a diehard player who did like 600 of these. That player likely had Borg doffs or something else that's very very expensive. Is that what this should really be about: catering to the player who is going to grind 600 or more of them and have doffs that cost 100 million each?
And, if that's the case, why is the mission listed as uncommon (nadorc)? :rolleyes:
We get purple consoles as a free drop every time we turn in a Voth commendation. That makes the exclamation point for getting a worthless purple console even more silly.
It's time to fix this mission. Here is how:
Reduce nadorc cooldown to 20 hours.
Eliminate the chance of getting anything but a purple or blue console. Blue consoles should be nothing less than XII and should not include the worthless consoles, only consoles that are worth at least more than the price of a methogenic trace. The chance of a blue console should be low if you have crit traits for your doffs.
Give a very small chance of getting a very rare console.
Make field generators very rare -- since they're almost the only thing nadorc is used for now, as far as I know. Apply this retroactively so all existing purple XII field gens are very rare. Purple XI field gens would move up to XII rare. Players would get field gens on a critical. Make the critical chance cater to the people who bought Borg doffs and so forth by making it a small chance unless you have the mega doffs. This would still improve the price of field gens on Exchange and not require people to try to grind hundreds of artifacts to get one.
Post edited by mercuriciodide on
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with purple boffs that have no critical quality
ultra rare console: 1%
very rare console: 79%
rare console: 20%
with purple boffs that have one critical quality each
ultra rare console: 2%
very rare console: 88%
rare console: 10%
with purple boffs that have two critical qualities each
ultra rare console: 4%
very rare console: 91%
rare console: 5%
with purple boffs that have all three qualities
ultra rare console: 6%
very rare console: 92%
rare console: 2%
or with a failure chance:
Failure does not mean you lose the artifact. You just have to do the mission again.
with purple boffs that have no critical quality
ultra rare console: 1%
very rare console: 79%
rare console: 10%
failure: 10%
with purple boffs that have one critical quality each
ultra rare console: 2%
very rare console: 88%
rare console: 5%
failure: 5%
with purple boffs that have two critical qualities each
ultra rare console: 4%
very console: 91%
rare console: 3%
failure: 2%
with purple boffs that have all three qualities
ultra rare console: 6%
very rare console: 93%
rare console: 0%
failure: 1%
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
It is very broken in terms of what you get for your trouble and expense.
My system changes nadorc from something that appeals only to the most elite and obsessive player to something that even a casual player can do. Their chance of getting a crit is only 1%, but the chance of being stuck with a worthless console is vastly lower.
Yes, there should have been a possibility to obtain them thru VR loot drops in specific missions/battlezones. Out of the millions of VR loot drops, I myself have yet to ever see a VRmkxii tac console as a loot drop. The best I have achieved thus far is 1 VRmkxi, and only 1. As for this god awful mission, it should have never been implemented the way it is. The artifact should have been obtained and powered by doff missions, but the creation of a console should have been left to the crafting system that has been put in place to make just about everything else. All you need do is ask for the time, cost, and dedication people have put into making aegis sets. This would still allow people to ask a still over inflated price, but not so much as to be unaffordable to those who don't have EC cap increases. But it again depends on those who try and control market prices like so many other things in the exchange.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
:cool:
People should realise that things in MMO's change. Yes you paid a lot of EC to acquire doff's. However you knew that Season 8 had new Science and Tactical consoles..
But instead of adapting, you're crying and bleating about how much those doffs cost you.. and how you can't make lots of EC anymore.
Well that's the way MMO's run.. not just STO, but all MMO's.. sooner or later that brand new shiny will be obsolete.
It's now the turn of NADROC...
/not signed
Very few markets are regulated under capitalism, and many more are having their regulations eliminated. The market in game is no different than the current real world markets that are at times free to run wild, and also controlled by vast corporations swaying price values on objects. There is no truly free market, without some form of controlled influence on pricing.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
The question is if it isn't worth it, than why do it? Simply stop doing it all together, and it could possibly get removed or changed. For their idea of worthwhile is simply from a money perspective, and is being rained in on with the new consoles always being added to fleets. After all fleets should have the best of the best even when compared to reputation stuff.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
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Maybe the entire thing needs to be simplified so that the point of nadorc is to get field gens and the odds would be low enough that they wouldn't become worthless but also wouldn't remain horribly overpriced as they are now. Maybe nadorc should become a very rare mission? There are a lot of ways to adjust it to make it worthwhile without making it too easy.
Right now, though, the quality of the consoles for the investment is poor. I just think this mission should be fixed so that it's something people can get excited about again, instead of just powering the artifact and selling it for EC because the odds are so poor unless you buy Borg doffs and grind hundreds of them.
Truthfully... I remember back when Aegis and the Borg set were the best of the best..... Is that ever coming back? nope! I also remember when Crafting was a good way to get mid level gear.... Now it's Nadorc's turn.
My character Tsin'xing
Lockbox items have unique stuff all of their own, so they will remain simply like they are. After all reputation projects don't provide unique ships now do they? So they only competitive example is fleet gear. Doff missions should provide simply things to like they do currently, but should not be the only way to obtain ALL of the VRmkxii consoles.
As for the big cost related issue is down to being played for as a sucker by feeding into the system. You pay millions of EC's for doff's because people want to charge that much, and you are crazy enough to pay it. You pay millions of EC's for the artifacts and items to charge them because again people want to charge that much for them, and you would again be crazy to buy them. It's all one system feeding into another because someone controls one side knowing you, and others will feed into it. If people didn't pay millions for the doff's than they would sit and rot, or keep coming down in price. If people didn't pay outlandish prices for the artifacts and items to charge them, again they would either sit and rot, or come down in price drastically. Instead people trying to profit off building consoles only obtainable thru doff missions by investing tons of EC's, in turn feed those who know what is needed to do so making them millions of EC's. It all boils down to the old rule of capitalism, and free enterprise garbage that generations have been brainwashed into believing keeps everyone equal in this world. The truth is there is no equalness, and just like real world economics the dev's have created a form of regulation on profiting off these systematic items.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Nadorc is different than your examples because it's something that yields gear -- not something that is gear. The quality of the gear and the difficulty of the mission are things that can change at any time.
I think having Nadorc for field gens is a good solution because it makes the mission exciting and worth doing. The key is to balance the difficulty in obtaining them with the difficult of getting access to other quality gear. Also, I don't see a problem in having an elite fleet version of the field gen being better than what nadorc yields. People will still have a reason to run Nadorc even if it just gives purple XII field gens.
An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
The FACT that you mentioned MORE THAN ONCE, that doffs cost you XX million EC, that the traces cost EC.. and the item you get back isn't worth EC, is a relevant FACT, and is therefore not an ad hominem attack. That you think it is an attack suggest that you're reading into things that aren't there. That you choose to see it as such is not my problem. I did read your post twice before I replied, and what I took from it was 2 things.
1) you spent a lot of EC to acquire what you thought were the best tools for the job (getting artifacts and traces and powering them for Purple Mk XII consoles.)
2) that now, you don't get the return on your 'investment' that you once did.
It's not PWE/Cryptic's task to provide you with endless amounts of 'easy' EC. It was well known that new Science and Tact console would be part of S8, and that this would very likely depress the market for consoles, as most people would be moving to the new consoles.
Traces are expensive because they're used in a lot of different ways, including crafting, and Fleet projects. And I suspect that with S8 coming in the demand for traces has gone up, and the demand for consoles has fallen.
But only if repair is needed, which in this case it isn't. PWE will never allow you to acquire Ultra-Rare equipment without a substantial time and Dilithium cost, which your proposal will bypass (and I'm sure make you lots of EC).
At the moment, Ultra-Rare equipment can only be acquired through Fleets with most items being time gated, and only after substantial 'donations'.
NADROC isn't broken, it still works as intended in that it's a gamble on you getting that Purple MKXII.. but as is the nature of MMO's gear moves on. Purple MkXII's are no longer "Best In Slot". And NADROC was never intended to provide "BIS" items.
The reason I suggested changing the spec is so it makes sense with the crit system I worked out. However, if you hate the relabeling, you can always change it so that the crit gives a purple field gen and there is a higher failure rate. The cost-benefit ratio of the gamble is not good enough for most players. Even more than before, it caters only the most obsessive/elite player and makes field gens into a protected money-making vehicle that prices them too high for normal players. Right now, the field gens are coming out of nadorc and they are worth a ton of EC. However, you have so many garbage consoles, including purples, that nadorc is only worth running if you're someone who grinds hundreds of artifacts -- and even many elite players have said it's not worth doing anymore.
It's out of balance.
I was trying to avoid having blues as the outcome too often since most of the purple consoles are worthless. The purple XII thing is so wide-ranging in terms of console quality that I don't think the relabeling of field gens is a problem -- but there are other ways to balance out the reward system for this mission.
I was never suggesting moving any of the fleet-level ultra rares to nadorc or adding in any actual ultra-rares at all. Nadorc shouldn't be a trap. The addition of fleet consoles, free Voth XII purples, and such has caused nadorc to need an adjustment.
We have field gens coming out of a mission that's a trap for most players and the price is too high as a result. It's too high for the doffs. It's too high for the gens. It's too high for the traces.
Someone suggested moving the gens to the fleet system, but I do think it would be nice to have at least one doff crafting mission be worthwhile. It's boring to have everything come from fleets and boxes.
This is why I suggested take the equation of hoping to craft a VRmkxi or mkxii console, and move this side of the equation to the regular crafting system. Also add in the very rare chance of these also being a loot drop, and you help lower costs for them there as well. Now to keep the doff's doing something related they would still need get data samples, and artifacts for crafting and powering the artifact, but once that is accomplished you need only invest into the basic crafting system to max out your skills there and viola you can make yourself what ever VR mki or mkxii console your heart desires, and should be no different than investing into designing aegis set pieces, only the consoles will still rely on 2 related doff missions to obtain and infuse artifacts to build a console of your choice.
EDIT: It's either something to this effect, or make them much easier to obtain like you suggested, but they would become BTC or BTA when obtained.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Making nadorc irrelevant shortchanges the people who bought the Borg doffs and such. Aren't some of those C store purchases? I am using my engineers for supports and other missions, so they're not useless. But, regardless of the issue of doff investment, it seems better to have more variety in the game in terms of how items are obtained instead of reducing it.
The fact of the matter of spending in game or real life money investing into something in game, will always be trumped by new game additions. It is something everyone should come to expect, and some change like we are discussing would be no different. It may or may not end up ruining what people have spent money on for the sake of game balance or regulation of possible abuse and exploitation.
EDIT: Real life economics and/or greed should never be a factor in a game, because it basically is saying that because something is rare or very rare, and it took me time and/or money to obtain it, than it should be sold for an inflated price. This excludes reasoning considering any person who would buy it may or may not have put just as much time and effort into trying to obtain the same item, and are now forced to pay an inflated cost to obtain it. This throws any value of their time they are forced to pay for it right out the door, and instead says the seller's time and effort is far more valuable than the purchaser's.
Example of a 30mill vrmkxii tac console vs a person needing spend the time to get the 30mill in the first place, and the money even be it thru dilithium-exchange grinding to purchase the EC cap increase as to be able to hold 30mill at one time, is pitting console seller's time and/or expense vs the purchaser's time and/or expense, and says your expense isn't worth mine for me to sell this console at a lower price.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
My character Tsin'xing
Now this is a good question!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
To bug people.
The "change" thing is a non sequitur because anything can change, including the nadorc mission.
A bug is a programming error that causes a program to behave in an incorrect way.
A correctly functioning design that doesn't align with the way you think it should isn't a bug.
Furthermore, all your suggested "correction" to this "bug" would do is drive the value of all the consoles down by flooding the market with non-greens, which would be self-defeating.