This is why I have said one of the best ways at putting some effort into pvp balance is, to make ALL consoles un-useable along with doff's. This makes any possible combat come down to captain skills, boff skills, weapon and gear choice (no boosting from consoles), and player skills. While there will still be sci spam, it won't be boosted by consoles nor will you face any cheese consoles themselves. Aux2batt builds become normal builds, dem+marion becomes just dem, ships with 3+tac slots are no better than ships with 1-2. It will go along way towards taking it back to basics for which even a casual player can jump in and have a good chance at competing or, even fresh 50's vs geared 50's. Just some food for thought!
EDIT: Also singularity charge would remain full to better mimic M/AM warp cores but, all singularity powers would be locked out for use.
I made my posts on FAW, I sent a select few PMs imploring certain folks to look into the mechanics.
I debated where I could, I tried.
Yet here we are. Double proc is fixed, FAW is still here (as I thought would be the case - since I had tested FAW without DEM).
Until over-capping and drain resistance are reworked, beams themselves are reworked, or some new item providing resistance to it all - FAW is not going anywhere.
I understand why its being used, its effective and is low maintenance - but like you Reg I find it painfully boring.
Why should I work so hard on one of my hyper-optimized builds that require effort to make happen when I am just going to be outdone by a FAW boat that is significantly easier to fly?
I could, and did, fly one myself - but it just got tiresome, it lacked something visceral.
Instead, I've just decided to step away from STO for a while until the Devs show they actually care about creating a fun and balanced PvP environment (I'm not holding my breath).
Bu.. bu... how else do i do damage in this game ultimatum.. HOW
I can't remember where I saw it (or heh, if I actually saw it or just imagined it at this point) - but in a discussion on FAW, the bit where it was mentioned as being "iconic" to Star Trek.
But like many things in STO compared to ST...it's more like eating popcorn while watching a movie at the theater than it's like going to the theater to see a movie.
I can't remember where I saw it (or heh, if I actually saw it or just imagined it at this point) - but in a discussion on FAW, the bit where it was mentioned as being "iconic" to Star Trek.
FAW as it exists in this game isn't iconic to Star Trek.
Beams are iconic to Star Trek.
Beams being iconic to Star Trek doesn't remove DS9 and the Defiant from canon.
Aside from all of that a game needs to accommodate for a variety of play-styles and in this case weapon types.
That requires a modicum of balance between such weapon types, which we no longer have.
It wasn't an acceptable state when only a few high spike tools had the only value, but it's not really an acceptable state when a 250 degree arc, 360 degree coverage, build dominates with some of the highest output along with the greatest ease of use.
Beams being iconic to Star Trek doesn't remove DS9 and the Defiant from canon.
I ask Santa to remove DS9 every year for Christmas. No luck so far! :P
As bad as some of the plot armor, plot weapons, plot deus ex machina was with the rest of the Trek franchise...DS9 took it boldly where no plot gimmicks had gone before. One might even say, it was the story of the Bajoran Plothole.
beams are only iconic when they are minimalist, not disco ball. the only thing close to faw in actual canon was a tactic used to flush out a cloaked ship.
um...it was still better than Voyager, which had to rely on cheesekake not to be cancelled.
Obviously folks are going to have different opinions on the various series, movies, captains, etc...
...and one can't help but feel pity for all the folks that have it wrong. :P
Kirk1 > Picard > Kirk2 > Archer > Janeway > Sisko
TOS > TNG > ENT > VOY > DS9
The Wrath of Khan > Generations > The Voyage Home > The Motion Picture > Star Trek > The Undiscovered Country > Into Darkness > First Contact > The Search for Spock > The Final Frontier > Insurrection > Nemesis
USS Enterprise > USS Enterprise-A > USS Enterprise-B > USS Enterprise-C > USS Voyager > USS Enterprise-D > USS Defiant
Joking of course...not on the order, but the feeling pity aspect. Folks will prefer what they do, and there's no point in arguing subjective matters like that. Some prefer cake, some prefer pie - all it means is that each prefers something different, not that what one prefers is better to what the other prefers.
The question as it applies to this thread, though, is it just a subjective discussion or is it an actual discussion of mechanics and systems? I think the subjective aspect is clouding the mechanics aspect...as it does in many cases.
Even though I have my preferences, it's not going to stop me from pointing out if something I like is borked. Just because I do not like something, does not mean that I cannot point out it is borked.
My comment about pacing, the popcorn thing, being off in STO imho - definitely subjective. That FAW is still broken...anybody using it is exploiting...isn't subjective.
beams are only iconic when they are minimalist, not disco ball. the only thing close to faw in actual canon was a tactic used to flush out a cloaked ship.
Yep, that's the popcorn vs. movie thing. Might go to the movies once, two - three times a month, whatever - right? The popcorn is usually gone before the movie even starts, lol...gobble, gobble, gobble.
That's the difference, imho, with pacing - between them being iconic in ST and being spammage in STO.
Before S8 hit, I felt that the game was bordering on being too much power given to players. Still, PVP was quite doable though the feeling of cheese overall was growing more and more. It was still enjoyable overall.
When I read of the stuff coming for S8, the gut feeling that things were about to go completely overboard was there. More reputation, more gear with buffs, more buffs given to gear that didn't have them before, more DOFFs to break the game. Generally, even more power than ever before given to players.
In PVE, you can see stuff that long ago would have required more time and effort from a group to take down. Now the same things can be sped right through, blown up in seconds.
In PVP? Holy jeez, I knew it was going to be overboard. I haven't PVP'ed since S8 hit and everything I've heard about it from friends and on these boards confirm my fear that PVP in STO has "Jumped The Shark." It's just straight B.S. now.
PVP was already struggling to take place before S8. Hell, the queues were already slow. Now? They're even slower. I'd dare say that if nothing changes, PVP will not make it another 6 months, except for a handful of dudes fighting each other.
Cryptic has absolutely no idea what GAME BALANCE means.
A glance on a targeted player tells everything you need to know about the state of this game and how "balanced" it is. The scary part is that there are still buffs that do not show up on a targeted player.
Instead, I've just decided to step away from STO for a while until the Devs show they actually care about creating a fun and balanced PvP environment (I'm not holding my breath).
That explains a lot, thought you'd taken a break. As for the other stuff, yeah it kinda makes my engineer nothing but a generic captain with a 30s 2 min CD hunker down button.
I find drain resistance benefits both cannons and beams, in general all forms of energy weapons. However as you and many others have said overcapping only seems to benefit beams.
Ah well whatever, happy holidays if you're not in game or on the forums before then.
The game has been spammy here and there depending on the state of mines.. but no the game was never ever spammy like it is now.
Skills being op depending on when we are talking about... yep very true. However Cryptic has mostly balanced the skills out the last 4 years sadly. lol
"go back to experience stomps everything and nothing can compare except more experience, right?" - beameddown
Not sure if your serious on this one... Yes most of us are saying EXPERIENCE and skill should decide the match 99% of the time. Not who loaded the most p2w nonsense consoles... ground the most p2w pve traits... or picked up the newest lockbox/cstore ship... or has the best pool of friends or largest EC warchest to load up on all the mk XII fleet p2w cosnoles first. (the theory of buff the little guy would be great and fine and all... if it wasn't the vets who would be the ones in the best position to grind all the junk... I have all the junk, ok I guess I'm behind on the newest rep and I don't care. The cheese mades get to exist because the vets are the ones that grind all the newest junk. So its XP + Cheese + those super internet connections. lol)
This game has never ever been cookie cutter. Funny thing is these days I have 10x the option in terms of gear... and yet I feel like I have less options as far as my build goes.
I really don't see how anyone could possibly defend the state of pvp in sto. The only PvP I will be touching in STO for awhile is right here. I would really love to come back, first though the creator of all the issues has to take the first step. Cryptic needs to convince me they are willing to change... otherwise I'm sleeping on the couch and they don't get none of my good lovin, no $$$ tonight.
I find drain resistance benefits both cannons and beams
It doesn't benefit them in remotely equal proportion.
I was working on a very specific cannon focused build for quite some time.
Squeezing out every last ounce.
I performed repeated tests to see if drain resistance would improve my output and after a dozen tests or so none of the results ever saw more than 1% improvement.
The beam results were significantly higher.
I'm always willing to listen though, so if you have time to put it to the tests I'll take a look at your results.
The problem is the rep system. From fleet/faction gear to the rep perks it turns high level pvp into almost a simple gear check.
The best PvP experience I've had in this game?
Level 20-30 queues. No fleetmades stomping everyone, just enough equipment to be interesting, not so much mechanic stacking that you can build utterly broken fits. It's incredibly fun and I actually keep a character slot open just to repeatedly level and play through that bracket.
Literally the only problem is that queues take forever.
DF, I thank you for this, its good to see someone with a good rep in STO has stood up and said what many of us non knowns have been saying for sometime.
Your argument gives ours credence .
I do find it amusing though how many of the replies are from the same people who blamed the pug players or the lesser known players for being bad, not being team players etc etc.
How the woes of normal players were brushed aside, ignored or just got abused.
Just strange how someone with a known toon or good reputation doesn't get the same treatment, in fact everyone agrees with the point of view.
Just shows if you aren't in the clique, you aren't worthy of being listened to or being taken seriously. (No disrespect at all is intended to the OP in this post).
DF, I thank you for this, its good to see someone with a good rep in STO has stood up and said what many of us non knowns have been saying for sometime.
Your argument gives ours credence .
I do find it amusing though how many of the replies are from the same people who blamed the pug players or the lesser known players for being bad, not being team players etc etc.
How the woes of normal players were brushed aside, ignored or just got abused.
Just strange how someone with a known toon or good reputation doesn't get the same treatment, in fact everyone agrees with the point of view.
Just shows if you aren't in the clique, you aren't worthy of being listened to or being taken seriously. (No disrespect at all is intended to the OP in this post).
Thanks seansamurai1. But you are too modest. You are known to me, and I am sure alot of others too.
I say unequivocally, that Star Trek Online is the best game I have ever played. Ever.
It has the potential to be that one legendary game, honestly.
The issues around which STO revolve, which have been here since around Season 4, have been the ball-and-chain of Cryptics realisation of that dream.
If someone asked me what was my wishlist for the future?
Golden Rule: Listen and engage with your customers via dev blogs, meet-and-greet blogs, etc. Listen to what players are telling you about how they are experiencing your product.
1.) Separate the influence of PvE on PvP. Be that in shutting-off the rep, and doffs then so be it.
Consider a internal process whereby a leaderboard AI can be developed, and an option for players where they want to play:
Perhaps even if it is was simple as taking the average healing/dps per player over the last 10 matches.
If they qualify they are placed in queues with more veteran players. If not, they are placed with players who share their averages.
2.) Stop producing universal consoles. Make them universal only in the fact that they can be used in any slot ONLY on the ship you purchase them with.
3.) Create more challenging and storyline based STF's for the community with less emphasis on grind, and much more emphasis on team-work.
The "reward people for time spent playing" idea is not working. People want to play to have fun and relax. They do not want to have to login in to be faced with a mountain of "work" which needs to be done to remain competitive.
So in that vein, IN ADDITION to the existing rewards, give out a +2-5 multiple-choice reputation point for playing in each match of PvP, Foundry Mission, PvE Episode etc.
That way, players are rewarded for what they want to do. Hell there is TONS of stuff I want to be doing but can't to stay "on-schedule" I would love to just hit the space lanes once in a while and know there's a bit or reputation reward at the end of it.
4.) This is a just a personal observation. But honestly, I really think that they really overdid it by given all the Romulan ships battlecloak. Some of the ships should only have standard cloak. But that ship has sailed and the Romulans will always be the go to guys if you want to play damage. Which really pees me off. For a lot of players immersion really is important. Take me. I am a through-and-through Klingon. I love the lore, the culture, the ships etc. But for the last two years its been very difficult to stay remotely competitive.
5.) Rewards. I believe that Cryptic need to change the direction of rewards. The players are saturated with "blowing-up" stuff.
What about different kinds of rewards? What about a reputation rewards that do not affect game-play but unlock specializations and slight different variations of abilities trees. Giving the player the ability to break away from the cookie-cutter.
What if as a player I could unlock a list of specialisations like "Ty'Go'Hor Guardsman" which unlocks a special doff series or perhaps a small missions series, afterwhich I earn a special rank title and perhaps a "Unique" customisable costume set?
Alot of folks could really go for instead of changing the mechanics, change the way things look.
6.) Lockboxes, doffs etc. - As profitable as these undertakings are and realizing that they will never really realistically go away. How about introducing an alternating set of rewards, of enriching the game experience and not of consequence.
How about rewards of unlocking mini-factions?
How about a rewards that unlocks a species which you can play as.
Nothing over the top, just different.
7.) Work with the Foundry authors to start getting some of their great works associated to other aspects of the game. Associate their missions to NPC's and random contacts one sees in space.
8.) Maps. Please maps. A long time ago someone I trust deeply told me that the process of creating PvP maps was extremely time consuming and challenging for a number of reasons.
There was a time for that argument. But I do not believe that it holds any water after Season 8. What Cryptic achieved with the technology behind the Dyson Sphere made me smile, not because of the content - because of its RAW potential for stuff I do like. You know what I'm talking about!! (cue beaming Eddie Murphy Come to Papa grin!)
Thats it really. LOL
A few years of work. But my Nirvana in STO, except of course when I stumble upon one of those particular feisty little Epochs which gets my blood pumping.
Hi drk, like most posters i share your sentiments. Hence I have taken a long break from PvP and with it a big part of STO. The ball is in cryptics' court always had been. Potential is one thing, 8 seasons of utter neglect ..... whatever.
@Branflakes: Can we have our own subforum? Obviously we all enjoy the STO pvp community, but cannot find the energy to put up with systems decisions in game. Guess that makes us part of the community representation that is in your job description. Not sure if people fed up with systems, actually belong in the pvp sub-forum. Apparently we're no longer the ones actually pewing.
It doesn't benefit them in remotely equal proportion.
I was working on a very specific cannon focused build for quite some time.
Squeezing out every last ounce.
I performed repeated tests to see if drain resistance would improve my output and after a dozen tests or so none of the results ever saw more than 1% improvement.
The beam results were significantly higher.
I'm always willing to listen though, so if you have time to put it to the tests I'll take a look at your results.
Thanks, same to you.
The funny part?
I wanted FAW to be useful, I wanted it to be effective, I want cruisers to be useful and effective.
Unfortunately it's beyond "useful and effective" and has moved into heavily dominating the meta-game.
How can cruisers ever be effective by giving it an OP ability that doesnt need a single bit of skill or coordination?lolol
Its like making Scatter volley hit 5 targets and widen the arc another 100 degrees, and increase its damage by another 30%.
There is the Builds, Powers, and Game Mechanics section of the forums, eh? Folks are discussing systems there...sometimes threads end up getting moved from here to there. Threads get moved from General Troll to there as well. Folks are discussing mechanics, whether in PvP, PvE, or both. If that's along the lines of what you meant there...
Nah more like
Forum>Community>PvP Gameplay> No longer doing STO but like to throw the occasional forum punch at my buddies
Forum>Community>PvP Gameplay> Will be back when systems grows a pair
Forum>Community>PvP Gameplay> No to the Meta, Yes to the players
After not PVPing for a long long ime and seeing this thread I decided to pop into the F vs F queue last night. I am a Tac captian and I was in my Fleet Assult cruiser running the Spire Polaron beams and the Spire 3 piece set. Aux2bat/FAW/DEM etc, etc. 3 XII VR Tac consoles and 1 Spire Crit D tac console. I had 11 kills 1.8 mil damage. My team lost 13/15 one player died 12 times himself. Seems the other team just focused on him since he was dieing so easy.
What I noticed was everyone spamming Nimbus distress call and photonic fleet at once. I was suprised I did so well. I do have all XII Fleet gear and XII VR consoles and all rep finished but assumed that not running Fleet weapons just CritD (ACC) Spire polaron weapons would hinder me. I did notice that the Sprie CritD Tac console with the Crit D weapons and Borg, Zero point, Tachyokinetic, and Nukera Console gave me some really massive cirts. Perhaps thats how I got 11 kills or perhaps I got lucky and was fighting noobs.
Last time I PVP'd I remember throwing everything I had at people and only doing damage via bleedthrough. I could not even dent shields. Also getting insta-killed by JHAS's with TB/CRF3/THY combos.
At the end of the day you can't control what comes into the queues
This is not entirely true.
You can at least control what you bring into the queues.
Yes. That's just one person.
But let's be honest, we've all seen the threads that pvp is really only a handful of players/fleets anyway. Also, the threads that everybody hates cheese stuff but uses it because the other guys are doing it. If that's true...
I don't know. I can't help but think that if more people decided to be the bigger man (or woman), we'd eventually see an improvement. Especially if the majority ended up restraining themselves and demonstrated to the new and unaligned/non-forum players that the cheese is not why they were getting beaten.
Sure, you'll be fighting non-cheese vs cheese a lot, initially. But at least you'll be trying to make a difference. And let's face facts: if 3/4 of the people in these forums join in, that's at least half the regularly active pvp players. You'll start seeing changes in the queues, guaranteed.
I know I don't use cheesy stuff or things that I know are broken. How about you?*
*A general you, not aimed at you specifically, g0h4n4.
You can at least control what you bring into the queues.
Yes. That's just one person.
But let's be honest, we've all seen the threads that pvp is really only a handful of players/fleets anyway. Also, the threads that everybody hates cheese stuff but uses it because the other guys are doing it. If that's true...
I don't know. I can't help but think that if more people decided to be the bigger man (or woman), we'd eventually see an improvement. Especially if the majority ended up restraining themselves and demonstrated to the new and unaligned/non-forum players that the cheese is not why they were getting beaten.
Sure, you'll be fighting non-cheese vs cheese a lot, initially. But at least you'll be trying to make a difference. And let's face facts: if 3/4 of the people in these forums join in, that's at least half the regularly active pvp players. You'll start seeing changes in the queues, guaranteed.
I know I don't use cheesy stuff or things that I know are broken. How about you?*
*A general you, not aimed at you specifically, g0h4n4.
I agree. In the opening thread match I described, I was on my TAC in a Mogh with Target Weapons III. So for me, I won.
You have just been 'CHEESED', welcome to our world
Its the reason I dont bother with PvP much at all nowadays. As mentioned its not the players fault it is cryptic adding layer upon layer of cheese.
They have jumped on the micro transaction band wagon and now need a constant stream of tat for the micro transactions. The players are just consuming what they have been given and very few have any ethics of gameplay hence the ruination of PvP.
The reason cryptic dont do anything about it is that the NPC dont complain about the cheese and the PvE community lap it up as it does not affect them in anyway and it generates revenue for them.
The PvP community want the problems addressed but cryptic wont as it will cost them money to correct the problems. It would not surprise me if some of these groups of PvP'ers ruining PvP with cheese were not in some way connected to cryptic and the deliberate death of PvP.
PvP is just being left in the corner to starve to death or until it feels so ignored it just shuts up and goes away !
Thanks seansamurai1. But you are too modest. You are known to me, and I am sure alot of others too.
I say unequivocally, that Star Trek Online is the best game I have ever played. Ever.
It has the potential to be that one legendary game, honestly.
The issues around which STO revolve, which have been here since around Season 4, have been the ball-and-chain of Cryptics realisation of that dream.
If someone asked me what was my wishlist for the future?
Golden Rule: Listen and engage with your customers via dev blogs, meet-and-greet blogs, etc. Listen to what players are telling you about how they are experiencing your product.
1.) Separate the influence of PvE on PvP. Be that in shutting-off the rep, and doffs then so be it.
Consider a internal process whereby a leaderboard AI can be developed, and an option for players where they want to play:
Perhaps even if it is was simple as taking the average healing/dps per player over the last 10 matches.
If they qualify they are placed in queues with more veteran players. If not, they are placed with players who share their averages.
2.) Stop producing universal consoles. Make them universal only in the fact that they can be used in any slot ONLY on the ship you purchase them with.
3.) Create more challenging and storyline based STF's for the community with less emphasis on grind, and much more emphasis on team-work.
The "reward people for time spent playing" idea is not working. People want to play to have fun and relax. They do not want to have to login in to be faced with a mountain of "work" which needs to be done to remain competitive.
So in that vein, IN ADDITION to the existing rewards, give out a +2-5 multiple-choice reputation point for playing in each match of PvP, Foundry Mission, PvE Episode etc.
That way, players are rewarded for what they want to do. Hell there is TONS of stuff I want to be doing but can't to stay "on-schedule" I would love to just hit the space lanes once in a while and know there's a bit or reputation reward at the end of it.
4.) This is a just a personal observation. But honestly, I really think that they really overdid it by given all the Romulan ships battlecloak. Some of the ships should only have standard cloak. But that ship has sailed and the Romulans will always be the go to guys if you want to play damage. Which really pees me off. For a lot of players immersion really is important. Take me. I am a through-and-through Klingon. I love the lore, the culture, the ships etc. But for the last two years its been very difficult to stay remotely competitive.
5.) Rewards. I believe that Cryptic need to change the direction of rewards. The players are saturated with "blowing-up" stuff.
What about different kinds of rewards? What about a reputation rewards that do not affect game-play but unlock specializations and slight different variations of abilities trees. Giving the player the ability to break away from the cookie-cutter.
What if as a player I could unlock a list of specialisations like "Ty'Go'Hor Guardsman" which unlocks a special doff series or perhaps a small missions series, afterwhich I earn a special rank title and perhaps a "Unique" customisable costume set?
Alot of folks could really go for instead of changing the mechanics, change the way things look.
6.) Lockboxes, doffs etc. - As profitable as these undertakings are and realizing that they will never really realistically go away. How about introducing an alternating set of rewards, of enriching the game experience and not of consequence.
How about rewards of unlocking mini-factions?
How about a rewards that unlocks a species which you can play as.
Nothing over the top, just different.
7.) Work with the Foundry authors to start getting some of their great works associated to other aspects of the game. Associate their missions to NPC's and random contacts one sees in space.
8.) Maps. Please maps. A long time ago someone I trust deeply told me that the process of creating PvP maps was extremely time consuming and challenging for a number of reasons.
There was a time for that argument. But I do not believe that it holds any water after Season 8. What Cryptic achieved with the technology behind the Dyson Sphere made me smile, not because of the content - because of its RAW potential for stuff I do like. You know what I'm talking about!! (cue beaming Eddie Murphy Come to Papa grin!)
Thats it really. LOL
A few years of work. But my Nirvana in STO, except of course when I stumble upon one of those particular feisty little Epochs which gets my blood pumping.
Thanks for the sentiments.
For me, probably the wrong reasons anyone knows me.
I'm a bad loser.
More to the point, I don't mind losing to someone with genuinely more skill, I don't like losing to fads and skill less cheese.
Tbh, cryptic really really really need to address the spam in this game, frankly the game engine/graphics engine is not capable of running all the c**p.
They can't tell me that this game is more graphics intensive than say battlefield 4 on ultra settings, or ARMA3 on ultra settings, both of those run at 60+ FPS comfortably on my comp at ultra settings, even ran it on a 100hz 32inch 1080p HD TV in HD (hdmi ports). Yet a 4+ year old game with an old engine under the hood is apparently more intensive?
Na, just really badly optimised.
One might even say, it was the story of the Bajoran Plothole.
Will a random mish-mash of Internet reviewers need to go to it on a house flying in space, spoofing many many different sci-fi movies and shows along the way?
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Webdeath, I've known you for a very long time. Been a few moons indeed.
I've only one fear really. While I am waiting for PvP to get some attention, it may get to the point where whatever attention it is given, no longer matters.
The only analogy I can think of is this.
~ Dinner for PvP ~
"Imagine PvP as an awesome dinner you arrange for you best friends. It's your first time cooking so you want to impress upon them you culinary sophisti-Ka-tion and grace.
Strutting around the kitchen like Jamie Oliver, you feel that sweet moment upon you of, "Yes! This is my castle.. I'm the man.." sweep over you. Shoulders out you slice carrots as though you born to the task, broad swathing stokes like they do in Kill Bill... you beam proudly at you wife.
"See nothing to worry about. Easy peasy!" Your wife cautions you not to overdo things, all the while telling you to go easy on the sauce. Yet you proceed with wild abandon sparing nothing... Stuffing that chicken like you were Muhammad Ali after a knockdown.
Fast forward to the big night. Your guests arrive, and as they start digging in you notice that, lets just call him Bruce, is somewhat reserved in his appetite. More so than usual...
Why at one point, you're absolutely convinced that Sharon was moulding her mashed-butternut to hide something!! Not to hurt your feelings, your wife affectionately smiles, "Yuuuuummmmy". Is that a .... She's chewing on a carrot stick which was not even on the menu!
Stay with me folks... This is drk-style rabble ... {this is que pvp fix analogy-thingy}
So, after a rather migraine-inducing, sidetracked, roller-coaster of a meal with far too many librations of red wine to force that admittedly charred ruin of a chicken {or turkey... its too far gone to tell or matter anymore.} down, and to avoid any suffering of the fact that the chicken was still smoking on one side, its twitching leg with feathers protruding from its a$$ ... which funnily enough, from this angle... reminds you of Vegas....., you pipe-up .... SO! Who's for some yummy desert!"
To which your dear friends, God rest their souls all shout in unison, "God NOOOOOO! Please!!!! You've done enough already!!"
I read that analogy and I agree with it, but in a different way..
With Cryptic, STO is the big Thanksgiving dinner. They have been preparing it for Years now.. They have the Turkey.. But many feel it is not big enough or have enough meat for the consumers. They have the sides, but perhaps not filling enough. And then there is the desert.. PVP.. That is just a single slice of pumpkin pie... One that was originally prepared with care.. but now it is 4 years old.. stored in a broken fridge.. and we're expected to try to not only fight over it, but want to consume that last slice after these 4 years..
I don't know about you.. but now I'm Hungry.. I've been hungry for a long time.. I can only hope that Cryptic can eventually serve us something worth enjoying.. other wise a different cook may come along and do better.. and then what will cryptic have? A bunch of dishes to clean...
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
You can at least control what you bring into the queues.
Yes. That's just one person.
But let's be honest, we've all seen the threads that pvp is really only a handful of players/fleets anyway. Also, the threads that everybody hates cheese stuff but uses it because the other guys are doing it. If that's true...
I don't know. I can't help but think that if more people decided to be the bigger man (or woman), we'd eventually see an improvement. Especially if the majority ended up restraining themselves and demonstrated to the new and unaligned/non-forum players that the cheese is not why they were getting beaten.
Sure, you'll be fighting non-cheese vs cheese a lot, initially. But at least you'll be trying to make a difference. And let's face facts: if 3/4 of the people in these forums join in, that's at least half the regularly active pvp players. You'll start seeing changes in the queues, guaranteed.
I know I don't use cheesy stuff or things that I know are broken. How about you?*
*A general you, not aimed at you specifically, g0h4n4.
Depends what your definition of Cheese is though, some people consider decloaking and alpha as cheese for example
But I generally don't do offsensive cheese like SIC, SS with doffs, GPG, TIF, Orion interceptors/Yellowstones.
However in a premade match with no rules laid out beforehand, out, it's all out nucleur
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
You can at least control what you bring into the queues.
Yes. That's just one person.
But let's be honest, we've all seen the threads that pvp is really only a handful of players/fleets anyway. Also, the threads that everybody hates cheese stuff but uses it because the other guys are doing it. If that's true...
I don't know. I can't help but think that if more people decided to be the bigger man (or woman), we'd eventually see an improvement. Especially if the majority ended up restraining themselves and demonstrated to the new and unaligned/non-forum players that the cheese is not why they were getting beaten.
Sure, you'll be fighting non-cheese vs cheese a lot, initially. But at least you'll be trying to make a difference. And let's face facts: if 3/4 of the people in these forums join in, that's at least half the regularly active pvp players. You'll start seeing changes in the queues, guaranteed.
I know I don't use cheesy stuff or things that I know are broken. How about you?*
*A general you, not aimed at you specifically, g0h4n4.
The problem is if you don't run cheese, your just a drop in the ocean. There are too many people with the kind of attitidude of the following:
'Who are you to tell me what I can or cannot you A***Hole'
or 'I paid RL/ Lobi/EC for these consoles so STFU and die'
See the problem, they have no honour and their right who am I to tell them what to bring into queues, they won't listen and they don't care, they just want to win, not how they do it.
Kind of sums up their mental/physical age too
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Comments
EDIT: Also singularity charge would remain full to better mimic M/AM warp cores but, all singularity powers would be locked out for use.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Bu.. bu... how else do i do damage in this game ultimatum.. HOW
the premades out there are my big example
But like many things in STO compared to ST...it's more like eating popcorn while watching a movie at the theater than it's like going to the theater to see a movie.
FAW as it exists in this game isn't iconic to Star Trek.
Beams are iconic to Star Trek.
Beams being iconic to Star Trek doesn't remove DS9 and the Defiant from canon.
Aside from all of that a game needs to accommodate for a variety of play-styles and in this case weapon types.
That requires a modicum of balance between such weapon types, which we no longer have.
It wasn't an acceptable state when only a few high spike tools had the only value, but it's not really an acceptable state when a 250 degree arc, 360 degree coverage, build dominates with some of the highest output along with the greatest ease of use.
I ask Santa to remove DS9 every year for Christmas. No luck so far! :P
As bad as some of the plot armor, plot weapons, plot deus ex machina was with the rest of the Trek franchise...DS9 took it boldly where no plot gimmicks had gone before. One might even say, it was the story of the Bajoran Plothole.
Obviously folks are going to have different opinions on the various series, movies, captains, etc...
...and one can't help but feel pity for all the folks that have it wrong. :P
Kirk1 > Picard > Kirk2 > Archer > Janeway > Sisko
TOS > TNG > ENT > VOY > DS9
The Wrath of Khan > Generations > The Voyage Home > The Motion Picture > Star Trek > The Undiscovered Country > Into Darkness > First Contact > The Search for Spock > The Final Frontier > Insurrection > Nemesis
USS Enterprise > USS Enterprise-A > USS Enterprise-B > USS Enterprise-C > USS Voyager > USS Enterprise-D > USS Defiant
Joking of course...not on the order, but the feeling pity aspect. Folks will prefer what they do, and there's no point in arguing subjective matters like that. Some prefer cake, some prefer pie - all it means is that each prefers something different, not that what one prefers is better to what the other prefers.
The question as it applies to this thread, though, is it just a subjective discussion or is it an actual discussion of mechanics and systems? I think the subjective aspect is clouding the mechanics aspect...as it does in many cases.
Even though I have my preferences, it's not going to stop me from pointing out if something I like is borked. Just because I do not like something, does not mean that I cannot point out it is borked.
My comment about pacing, the popcorn thing, being off in STO imho - definitely subjective. That FAW is still broken...anybody using it is exploiting...isn't subjective.
Yep, that's the popcorn vs. movie thing. Might go to the movies once, two - three times a month, whatever - right? The popcorn is usually gone before the movie even starts, lol...gobble, gobble, gobble.
That's the difference, imho, with pacing - between them being iconic in ST and being spammage in STO.
When I read of the stuff coming for S8, the gut feeling that things were about to go completely overboard was there. More reputation, more gear with buffs, more buffs given to gear that didn't have them before, more DOFFs to break the game. Generally, even more power than ever before given to players.
In PVE, you can see stuff that long ago would have required more time and effort from a group to take down. Now the same things can be sped right through, blown up in seconds.
In PVP? Holy jeez, I knew it was going to be overboard. I haven't PVP'ed since S8 hit and everything I've heard about it from friends and on these boards confirm my fear that PVP in STO has "Jumped The Shark." It's just straight B.S. now.
PVP was already struggling to take place before S8. Hell, the queues were already slow. Now? They're even slower. I'd dare say that if nothing changes, PVP will not make it another 6 months, except for a handful of dudes fighting each other.
Cryptic has absolutely no idea what GAME BALANCE means.
A glance on a targeted player tells everything you need to know about the state of this game and how "balanced" it is. The scary part is that there are still buffs that do not show up on a targeted player.
That explains a lot, thought you'd taken a break. As for the other stuff, yeah it kinda makes my engineer nothing but a generic captain with a 30s 2 min CD hunker down button.
I find drain resistance benefits both cannons and beams, in general all forms of energy weapons. However as you and many others have said overcapping only seems to benefit beams.
Ah well whatever, happy holidays if you're not in game or on the forums before then.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Nah, they fixed that some time back. I was happy they did. That was so TRIBBLE up any sort of rotations on my part...
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=839811
August 29th...
Skills being op depending on when we are talking about... yep very true. However Cryptic has mostly balanced the skills out the last 4 years sadly. lol
"go back to experience stomps everything and nothing can compare except more experience, right?" - beameddown
Not sure if your serious on this one... Yes most of us are saying EXPERIENCE and skill should decide the match 99% of the time. Not who loaded the most p2w nonsense consoles... ground the most p2w pve traits... or picked up the newest lockbox/cstore ship... or has the best pool of friends or largest EC warchest to load up on all the mk XII fleet p2w cosnoles first. (the theory of buff the little guy would be great and fine and all... if it wasn't the vets who would be the ones in the best position to grind all the junk... I have all the junk, ok I guess I'm behind on the newest rep and I don't care. The cheese mades get to exist because the vets are the ones that grind all the newest junk. So its XP + Cheese + those super internet connections. lol)
This game has never ever been cookie cutter. Funny thing is these days I have 10x the option in terms of gear... and yet I feel like I have less options as far as my build goes.
I really don't see how anyone could possibly defend the state of pvp in sto. The only PvP I will be touching in STO for awhile is right here.
I was due.
It doesn't benefit them in remotely equal proportion.
I was working on a very specific cannon focused build for quite some time.
Squeezing out every last ounce.
I performed repeated tests to see if drain resistance would improve my output and after a dozen tests or so none of the results ever saw more than 1% improvement.
The beam results were significantly higher.
I'm always willing to listen though, so if you have time to put it to the tests I'll take a look at your results.
Thanks, same to you.
The funny part?
I wanted FAW to be useful, I wanted it to be effective, I want cruisers to be useful and effective.
Unfortunately it's beyond "useful and effective" and has moved into heavily dominating the meta-game.
The best PvP experience I've had in this game?
Level 20-30 queues. No fleetmades stomping everyone, just enough equipment to be interesting, not so much mechanic stacking that you can build utterly broken fits. It's incredibly fun and I actually keep a character slot open just to repeatedly level and play through that bracket.
Literally the only problem is that queues take forever.
Your argument gives ours credence .
I do find it amusing though how many of the replies are from the same people who blamed the pug players or the lesser known players for being bad, not being team players etc etc.
How the woes of normal players were brushed aside, ignored or just got abused.
Just strange how someone with a known toon or good reputation doesn't get the same treatment, in fact everyone agrees with the point of view.
Just shows if you aren't in the clique, you aren't worthy of being listened to or being taken seriously. (No disrespect at all is intended to the OP in this post).
Thanks seansamurai1. But you are too modest. You are known to me, and I am sure alot of others too.
I say unequivocally, that Star Trek Online is the best game I have ever played. Ever.
It has the potential to be that one legendary game, honestly.
The issues around which STO revolve, which have been here since around Season 4, have been the ball-and-chain of Cryptics realisation of that dream.
If someone asked me what was my wishlist for the future?
Golden Rule: Listen and engage with your customers via dev blogs, meet-and-greet blogs, etc. Listen to what players are telling you about how they are experiencing your product.
1.) Separate the influence of PvE on PvP. Be that in shutting-off the rep, and doffs then so be it.
Consider a internal process whereby a leaderboard AI can be developed, and an option for players where they want to play:
Perhaps even if it is was simple as taking the average healing/dps per player over the last 10 matches.
If they qualify they are placed in queues with more veteran players. If not, they are placed with players who share their averages.
2.) Stop producing universal consoles. Make them universal only in the fact that they can be used in any slot ONLY on the ship you purchase them with.
3.) Create more challenging and storyline based STF's for the community with less emphasis on grind, and much more emphasis on team-work.
The "reward people for time spent playing" idea is not working. People want to play to have fun and relax. They do not want to have to login in to be faced with a mountain of "work" which needs to be done to remain competitive.
So in that vein, IN ADDITION to the existing rewards, give out a +2-5 multiple-choice reputation point for playing in each match of PvP, Foundry Mission, PvE Episode etc.
That way, players are rewarded for what they want to do. Hell there is TONS of stuff I want to be doing but can't to stay "on-schedule" I would love to just hit the space lanes once in a while and know there's a bit or reputation reward at the end of it.
4.) This is a just a personal observation. But honestly, I really think that they really overdid it by given all the Romulan ships battlecloak. Some of the ships should only have standard cloak. But that ship has sailed and the Romulans will always be the go to guys if you want to play damage. Which really pees me off. For a lot of players immersion really is important. Take me. I am a through-and-through Klingon. I love the lore, the culture, the ships etc. But for the last two years its been very difficult to stay remotely competitive.
5.) Rewards. I believe that Cryptic need to change the direction of rewards. The players are saturated with "blowing-up" stuff.
What about different kinds of rewards? What about a reputation rewards that do not affect game-play but unlock specializations and slight different variations of abilities trees. Giving the player the ability to break away from the cookie-cutter.
What if as a player I could unlock a list of specialisations like "Ty'Go'Hor Guardsman" which unlocks a special doff series or perhaps a small missions series, afterwhich I earn a special rank title and perhaps a "Unique" customisable costume set?
Alot of folks could really go for instead of changing the mechanics, change the way things look.
6.) Lockboxes, doffs etc. - As profitable as these undertakings are and realizing that they will never really realistically go away. How about introducing an alternating set of rewards, of enriching the game experience and not of consequence.
How about rewards of unlocking mini-factions?
How about a rewards that unlocks a species which you can play as.
Nothing over the top, just different.
7.) Work with the Foundry authors to start getting some of their great works associated to other aspects of the game. Associate their missions to NPC's and random contacts one sees in space.
8.) Maps. Please maps. A long time ago someone I trust deeply told me that the process of creating PvP maps was extremely time consuming and challenging for a number of reasons.
There was a time for that argument. But I do not believe that it holds any water after Season 8. What Cryptic achieved with the technology behind the Dyson Sphere made me smile, not because of the content - because of its RAW potential for stuff I do like. You know what I'm talking about!! (cue beaming Eddie Murphy Come to Papa grin!)
Thats it really. LOL
A few years of work. But my Nirvana in STO, except of course when I stumble upon one of those particular feisty little Epochs which gets my blood pumping.
@Branflakes: Can we have our own subforum? Obviously we all enjoy the STO pvp community, but cannot find the energy to put up with systems decisions in game. Guess that makes us part of the community representation that is in your job description. Not sure if people fed up with systems, actually belong in the pvp sub-forum. Apparently we're no longer the ones actually pewing.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
How can cruisers ever be effective by giving it an OP ability that doesnt need a single bit of skill or coordination?lolol
Its like making Scatter volley hit 5 targets and widen the arc another 100 degrees, and increase its damage by another 30%.
lol
But isnt that the whole problem with balance? Make 1 thing OP out of all the options available, and the result is exactly that.
Uh... microbrain LOL
Nah more like
Forum>Community>PvP Gameplay> No longer doing STO but like to throw the occasional forum punch at my buddies
Forum>Community>PvP Gameplay> Will be back when systems grows a pair
Forum>Community>PvP Gameplay> No to the Meta, Yes to the players
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Please figure how what's going on and resolve it urgently. This kind of power creep is quite frankly catastrophic.
What I noticed was everyone spamming Nimbus distress call and photonic fleet at once. I was suprised I did so well. I do have all XII Fleet gear and XII VR consoles and all rep finished but assumed that not running Fleet weapons just CritD (ACC) Spire polaron weapons would hinder me. I did notice that the Sprie CritD Tac console with the Crit D weapons and Borg, Zero point, Tachyokinetic, and Nukera Console gave me some really massive cirts. Perhaps thats how I got 11 kills or perhaps I got lucky and was fighting noobs.
Last time I PVP'd I remember throwing everything I had at people and only doing damage via bleedthrough. I could not even dent shields. Also getting insta-killed by JHAS's with TB/CRF3/THY combos.
This is not entirely true.
You can at least control what you bring into the queues.
Yes. That's just one person.
But let's be honest, we've all seen the threads that pvp is really only a handful of players/fleets anyway. Also, the threads that everybody hates cheese stuff but uses it because the other guys are doing it. If that's true...
I don't know. I can't help but think that if more people decided to be the bigger man (or woman), we'd eventually see an improvement. Especially if the majority ended up restraining themselves and demonstrated to the new and unaligned/non-forum players that the cheese is not why they were getting beaten.
Sure, you'll be fighting non-cheese vs cheese a lot, initially. But at least you'll be trying to make a difference. And let's face facts: if 3/4 of the people in these forums join in, that's at least half the regularly active pvp players. You'll start seeing changes in the queues, guaranteed.
I know I don't use cheesy stuff or things that I know are broken. How about you?*
*A general you, not aimed at you specifically, g0h4n4.
I agree. In the opening thread match I described, I was on my TAC in a Mogh with Target Weapons III. So for me, I won.
Its the reason I dont bother with PvP much at all nowadays. As mentioned its not the players fault it is cryptic adding layer upon layer of cheese.
They have jumped on the micro transaction band wagon and now need a constant stream of tat for the micro transactions. The players are just consuming what they have been given and very few have any ethics of gameplay hence the ruination of PvP.
The reason cryptic dont do anything about it is that the NPC dont complain about the cheese and the PvE community lap it up as it does not affect them in anyway and it generates revenue for them.
The PvP community want the problems addressed but cryptic wont as it will cost them money to correct the problems. It would not surprise me if some of these groups of PvP'ers ruining PvP with cheese were not in some way connected to cryptic and the deliberate death of PvP.
PvP is just being left in the corner to starve to death or until it feels so ignored it just shuts up and goes away !
Thanks for the sentiments.
For me, probably the wrong reasons anyone knows me.
I'm a bad loser.
More to the point, I don't mind losing to someone with genuinely more skill, I don't like losing to fads and skill less cheese.
Tbh, cryptic really really really need to address the spam in this game, frankly the game engine/graphics engine is not capable of running all the c**p.
They can't tell me that this game is more graphics intensive than say battlefield 4 on ultra settings, or ARMA3 on ultra settings, both of those run at 60+ FPS comfortably on my comp at ultra settings, even ran it on a 100hz 32inch 1080p HD TV in HD (hdmi ports). Yet a 4+ year old game with an old engine under the hood is apparently more intensive?
Na, just really badly optimised.
Will a random mish-mash of Internet reviewers need to go to it on a house flying in space, spoofing many many different sci-fi movies and shows along the way?
I read that analogy and I agree with it, but in a different way..
With Cryptic, STO is the big Thanksgiving dinner. They have been preparing it for Years now.. They have the Turkey.. But many feel it is not big enough or have enough meat for the consumers. They have the sides, but perhaps not filling enough. And then there is the desert.. PVP.. That is just a single slice of pumpkin pie... One that was originally prepared with care.. but now it is 4 years old.. stored in a broken fridge.. and we're expected to try to not only fight over it, but want to consume that last slice after these 4 years..
I don't know about you.. but now I'm Hungry.. I've been hungry for a long time.. I can only hope that Cryptic can eventually serve us something worth enjoying.. other wise a different cook may come along and do better.. and then what will cryptic have? A bunch of dishes to clean...
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Depends what your definition of Cheese is though, some people consider decloaking and alpha as cheese for example
But I generally don't do offsensive cheese like SIC, SS with doffs, GPG, TIF, Orion interceptors/Yellowstones.
However in a premade match with no rules laid out beforehand, out, it's all out nucleur
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
The problem is if you don't run cheese, your just a drop in the ocean. There are too many people with the kind of attitidude of the following:
'Who are you to tell me what I can or cannot you A***Hole'
or 'I paid RL/ Lobi/EC for these consoles so STFU and die'
See the problem, they have no honour and their right who am I to tell them what to bring into queues, they won't listen and they don't care, they just want to win, not how they do it.
Kind of sums up their mental/physical age too
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)