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drkfrontiers
Member Posts: 2,477 Arc User
So last night I decided to hit a queues for a change. A little me time.
What a thoroughly horrible experience to say the least.
It left me feeling so thoroughly disheartened I literally ran a few doff missions afterwards and logged off. Maybe it was me giving-up and not learning to adapt.
But perhaps, I don't know. After the match my intuition told me that maybe, just maybe there are a small group of people intent on "breaking pvp" even more than it really needs to be. Its like that mentality of the guy you see smash up a Ferrari in front of Ferrari's Head Office, because they didn't answer his call in three rings.
But for the sake of it, here's the context of the encounter.
As far as I could remember (might be slightly off).
3x FAW III + DEM + APB; Romulan Mines; Tractor Beams on top of that (I would be ok with TB, if it weren't for the aforementioned.), AMS or SS (couldn't tell as my eyes were on fire), Monbosh console + TR.
The fact that most of them were in Romulan ships dropping in and out of cloak the moment I tried to engage them was equally disheartening.
Every Time I was focused my CPU fan basically started going into freeze, and my power tray kept freezing up because the process calculations were through the ceiling.
I really don't know what to do build wise to counter this anymore.
There. finished, now you can lambaste me for being a noob and to learn to play.
What a thoroughly horrible experience to say the least.
It left me feeling so thoroughly disheartened I literally ran a few doff missions afterwards and logged off. Maybe it was me giving-up and not learning to adapt.
But perhaps, I don't know. After the match my intuition told me that maybe, just maybe there are a small group of people intent on "breaking pvp" even more than it really needs to be. Its like that mentality of the guy you see smash up a Ferrari in front of Ferrari's Head Office, because they didn't answer his call in three rings.
But for the sake of it, here's the context of the encounter.
As far as I could remember (might be slightly off).
3x FAW III + DEM + APB; Romulan Mines; Tractor Beams on top of that (I would be ok with TB, if it weren't for the aforementioned.), AMS or SS (couldn't tell as my eyes were on fire), Monbosh console + TR.
The fact that most of them were in Romulan ships dropping in and out of cloak the moment I tried to engage them was equally disheartening.
Every Time I was focused my CPU fan basically started going into freeze, and my power tray kept freezing up because the process calculations were through the ceiling.
I really don't know what to do build wise to counter this anymore.
There. finished, now you can lambaste me for being a noob and to learn to play.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Nah...
...I just did an arena where I did over 2m damage without a single kill. Constant stream of Danubes, Weavers, Photonics, Nimbus, etc, etc, etc...I was just happy there were no Elite Scorps and it wasn't Solar.
I went though many moments of blaming the players that just can't seem to help themselves from using all the junk that Cryptic has piled on. Really though its Cryptics fault 100%, they have been adding more and more junk the last year or 2 and there is almost never any thought of how it will effect this end of the game.
At this point the only way to correct PvP is to remove it from PvE... and yes there will be tears from people when so many toys are simply removed from pvp. I am not holding my breath that cryptic will ever do that to make PvP fun agian. That is what it will take to get me back to playing ever day again like I was for years.
The game needs either a Gw2 Style PvP ecosystem seperated from the PvE joke that is pushed on it now.... Or at the very least they need to expand on what they started with the flanking mechanic where things effect players differently. (I again am not holding my breath for them to add 20-30 vs player arguments to existing items though).
Really honestly I would suggest testing out as many other MMOs that attract you as you can. Find something to PvP in... play STO to keep current and do a little RPing. lol That is until Cryptic removes the appendage that houses 4 of the 5 senses from the physical dark crevasse directly to there rear.
Kudus Virusdancer. Means alot coming from someone who's an authority on mechanics.
Thanks Antoniosalieri.
This is gospel.
I would honestly fork over money for a update that involved something along the lines of playing PvP in a Season 4-5 setting via some kind of interface.
Lt General / Vice Admiral Tier - worst tier of my STO.
Commander - absolutely my best.
Hey brother from another mother! Waz-up!
I can only hope that the devs are finding the time to play PvP.
If they did, I think they would understand that there are some serious issues.
Heh, that's kind of the thing - the build - perhaps in a CnH that goes on forever, where I'm just attacking pets - might get 400k. To pull that much in just an Arena? Meh, they were dropping so many pets...the dismal damage simply added up.
There was no keeping anybody alive with the sheer number of debuffs being stacked - there was no way anybody was going to kill anything with the sheer amount of heals they were tossing.
One guy left, probably after recognizing that it was a fleetmade.
Have to give credit to the other three guys that kept fighting. I got sloppy and got popped.
At the end, the "standard" gg was said...I said, "Don't lie. :P" It was far from a good game, and should folks really be thanking the other team for basically grabbing their ankles? Sure, folks kept fighting - but there was little point to it.
Thing is, the match before that...I ended up flying around in circles off to the side. I can't recall what the four guys on the other team had, but the four guys on the PUG I was on...well, 2x JHAS and 2x Fleet T'varo. Sure, a coordinated group or a lucky group thrown together with the right pieces could easily take them...but the other team, meh - it just felt wrong. I didn't want to be a part of it.
Those two tend to be the typical for me...lopsided one way or the other. But like a junkie, I go right back in there - hoping that maybe one out of ten matches might have a few moments of glorious combat where the adrenalin is pumping so much that I'm bouncing in my chair...
...a year ago, that happened almost every match.
These days, yeah - I find myself spending more time DOFFing, just grinding various PvE things, and Hell - in the past few days, I think I've spent more time dorking around with the costumes on all my guys than I have in PvP.
Folks hate WoW references, but I'm going to make one...not long before Cataclysm (heh, I left about a week and a half after launch - never looking back - having played since beta), I sat down and took a look at the stats of a fresh 80 vs. a geared 80. They were double or more in some cases. The gear progression at 80 provided such a boost to stats over a fresh 80, it was ridiculous.
It's not that bad in STO yet, but with all the Fleet Gear, all the Reputation Passives, etc, etc, etc...man oh man, it's a trip to look at the differences between a fresh 50, casual 50, and a "hardcore/geared" 50.
Then put together a team of those latter guys against the former guys...?
No doubt that latter group deserves to be able to play as much as the former group...I have no doubt about that. However, in the long run - if that latter group ends up driving up the former group...uh, just where is that latter group going to find a fight?
We used to have threads about PvP Concerns...now we have threads about PvP Excuses. It kind of boggles the mind, how many things that are listed as excuses...are actually broken - and folks either just do not know it or don't care.
Not long ago in Ker'rat, maybe 10-15 minutes - maybe longer - somebody said it seemed like it was more cutthroat in there than usual...
...heh, for a few months now, lol - seems like folks have been collectively getting up on the wrong side of the bed when it comes to PvP, eh?
Frustration? Not GAF? Is there some underlying desire to see it all crash and burn? Subconscious? Not even realizing it? Is it just a seasonal thing?
It makes me think about what Cryptic did for the KDF. Awesome job with the tutorial - being able to start at level 1...but here we are, six to seven months later and they're just getting around to more endgame ships? How many folks did they not get because of that?
Some of you guys have busted your humps trying to get new players into PvP - Cryptic's even popped their head in there to show some form of support. Cryptic needs to step in and do something about PvP endgame...otherwise...doom and gloom, eh?
Oh yeah, I should have started this reply off with the following: I'm not an authority on anything...much less mechanics. :P
I try to spread knowledge that I've come across, I try to pester the devs to share info with us, I try to point folks in the direction of other folks that actually are authorities on various mechanics, and stuff like that...but I'm far from an authority on anything in this game.
I'm just an average, if that, player - that's trying to find a little fun in a game that used to be more fun...
And with a solo pug, it's impossible to counter unless you were lucky enough to have the right team composition - and even then, it can be tricky coordinating.
I'm not saying that the opposing team was a premade or anything - they could have been randomly tossed together. I've seen 3xWells and 2xtacscort come out of a random pug before.
But still, the amount of abilities and such around is always increasing, and it's gonna get harder and harder to keep up. I count myself lucky I got into PvP just after the Cardie lockbox hit - heck, doffs were barely even functional those days.
Now, people should see how people unwilling to PvP have some basis for their complaints, eh?
This sums up my feelings exactly. Starting to get very down about it all. But, as was said earlier, like a junkie I keep coming back, hoping for one of those rare awesome games that used to be so much more common.
This is why I am highly supportive of mimey2's proposal also here in the PvP section of the forums to change all ability universal consoles into devices. Ships would have 4 devices at most and 2 at least. Now most players rely on batteries, red matter capacitor, or subspace field modulator. If they wanted to use a graphics spam console, they wouldn't be able to use all of them on the same ship.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
The only issue with device slots is that you can swap them during combat, whereas consoles are locked during red alert. It is convenient to have more device slots, but it's no big deal when you can swap things out in seconds. If anything the spam would get worse, as players could simply hotswap spam abilities.
Just never understood why device slots had that functionality.
The last one.
PUG vs. PUG...started out 5 vs. 4. Then it was 5 vs. 3. Then it was 5 vs. 2. I started flying around in circles pressing my spacebar. Accidentally got a kill credit (heh, 99.99% of Willard's kill credits are accidental - 99.99% of them are me blowing myself up though too). Then it was 5 vs. 1. I took off my shields and armor. They were still piling on 5 vs. 1. I took everything off and just sat there. At this point, I believe they dropped down to 3 vs. 1. It ended 15-0.
I wasn't the 1 in that 5 vs. 1...I was on the "winning" team, but it sure as Hell didn't feel like a win. I thanked the guy for staying. I felt like TRIBBLE for being there...meh.
You mean like the power creep that is so insane that the PvE'rs are doing STF's + optionals solo?
I like in CnH that I can go off on my own capturing flags.
And avoid the swarm of placates/carrier spam.
Then eventually the premade will send one or two my way ...to get rid of me.
This is my favorite part.
FBP of death, 314 PG Non buffed.
They can't break my shields, they try to overload me with bypass kinetics, I just use my kinetic reflect console and melt them some more...eventually they know to steer clear from me, or tag team gank me 5 vs 1.
Love turning the tables on sheep follower dps centric builds. "Have a taste of your own medicine" I say.
While hitting ep2a ii, large auxillary batt, Rom sci boost, fbp3, and finally apD
That'll learn them.
i have a hard time caring about player initiatives or tournaments as pvp degrades like this, and until cryptic steps in to some how influence the situation, we waist our time trying to help it. people cant help but cheese it to death
That unfortunately is the kind of immature/ dishonourable attitude at present.
Then comes the inevitable realisation that they can't do anything about it and join them as well since they are using it too.
In regards to FAW, one ship on it's own isn't that bad, 5 is nasty like any build e.g 5 vapers or 5 wells with TIF/ GPG/SS +doffs,
At the end of the day you can't control what comes into the queues, but Cryptic could and can create a seperate PVP queue that everyone uses white gear and no active/passive consoles.
OH well Cryptic doesn't care, if they did it wouldn't have taken them 8 seasons to notice. Sad really, I think i have reached a point where I don't care anymore, just say my GG at the end of a receiving Cheese stomp and then alt F4.
I am looking forward to Star Citizen and I hope it hurts Crytpic and makes them realise a neglected community is a gone community
But the important thing is not to go down to their level and start QQ and trash talking as that would be the ultimate failure. However if as a premade the other teams comes fully cheese, we will come fully nucleur.
One thing that keeps me in the game is the people I play with, my fleets and most of all the community of which not all are trash bags.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
But, drk...
FaW takes skill, didnt you know that?
lolol
Its sad that even once considered the best PvP fleets abuse FaW like their life depends on it
Yeah I agree with this. Ultimate failure is allowing them to know you're upset. It just feeds their desire to cheese even more.
The sad thing is, if certain skills are nerfed or Eliminated, you just know there will be a room of sweaty nerds somewhere, parsing out the next most viable cheese build.. you can't keep up with these dorks. Its like chinese gold farmers in another game I will not name. You just can't compete with their utter nerdiness. They will spends weeks researching the next thing even before a nerf can be implemented. They will always be 2 steps ahead of the curve.. blame the sweaty, bullied nerds for in game exploitation. They couldn't get their way in real life, so they study, and train to be Alpha dogs in game. Their never ending motivation to become alpha (somewhere in life-even in a game) drives them to insane explotation. Sad more then anything really.
As for Star Citizen, doesn't that come out soon ? Like Christmas ?
I've been looking into it, looks really promising.
Wonder if my laptop can handle the game...
Well Cheese isn't exploitation per say, rather using unbalanced PVE gear for personal PVP gain. Ergo Power creep/ broken mechanics.
This would be solved by just have a seperate PVP queue where everyone has the same white gear no consoles and you just choose your abilities.
Star Citizen has probably another 2 years before release, but the dog fighting module will probably come early next year, I am no hurry, i would rather they refined it before releasing it. Because the community is already QQ and impatient with it's delayed release. Imagine if it was released and not ready even though it was labelled as Alpha, everyone will QQ more and call SC a failure lolz.
I'm sure I can have fun in STO for a little while, just mainly with my fleet mates
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
There are so many times I will look at the Pug teams and just go.. WTH are they doing?
Or I'll be on my Current romulan Science officer in a Voth Sci ship.. Do some great Debuffing, and even Dragging of enemies around into Warp plasma with the new TBR Doff..and no one will help finish off some of the fish I caught..
And I don't even want to mention the lack of team work in Pugs. You almost litterally have to make any design, if pugging, as if you were solo fighting.. vs an entire team.
Normally I'd be on the band wagon that "The Devs don't PVP." But that statement is more or less not true. Because some of the Devs do PVP. They just might not do it in a way that we know it's them. They might even PVP in Private with their Fleets and never even touch the open Queues where some of the more Toxic behavior can be found.
Are the more elite PVPers trying to destroy the game's existing PVP for the rest of the players who enter the Public queues? I couldn't hazard an answer. Alot of it could simply be using what ever is the most popular "Win" Stratigy. AKA Flavor of the Week/Month. Weither that is abusing broken mechanics that haven't been exposed yet.. or ones that are known I couldn't say.
But in all, I agree with your feeling Drk. And I understand it. The old L2P statement might apply to some, but I don't believe you are one of them. I just hope that you don't go down my road, and give up on PVP.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Webdeath, I've known you for a very long time. Been a few moons indeed.
I've only one fear really. While I am waiting for PvP to get some attention, it may get to the point where whatever attention it is given, no longer matters.
At least when I did multi-player in games such as Mech4 Mercs, while there were some exploiters, pretty much the worst thing you had to worry about were "pop-tarts" aka, jump snipers. And there were definite counters to that.
But it was rare for someone to scream when they were killed, in an insulting manner. And just as rare for someone (or a team), to gloat and insult the losing people.
But in this game, I just figure, it's going to be a waste of time & energy, to bother putting up with an endless stream of insults going both ways. I'd rather put that same time, and energy, into having fun, or ay least grinding for dilithium and/or marks.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
The best pvp I have ever played has been here... it just hasn't been for over 2 years.
The core of STO is great... and lends itself to fantastic team based pvp. Its sad that Cryptic doesn't really care about that.
Most artists care about there art.... and I will stop right there before I end up asked to leave the forums. lol
I really wish every STO player in the game would experience a few of those golden games that convince them that this IS the core of one of the best PvP games to ever exist. Then again I don't think I would want to wish that much pain on others when they realize that potential will simply never be tapped.
I wish Cryptic would put the $ dollars they think they are making by allowing all the junk in PvP second to the creation of a PvP game that really should be high art.
They have pretty much milked those of us that have stuck around hoping for them to polish the jem... instead of polishing it up and worrying about cashing in once the house was packed so to speak.
I'll keep an eye on, but that's it anymore. I won't really take STO pvp seriously until Cryptic does.
I think they are banking on us leaving tbh and nor do they care, simply the next generation of PVPers will replace us and then come to realise it's rubbish and quit too. The cycle continues.
They are smart in that respects Cryptic, keeping quiet, giving wooly answers to upcoming PVP content or none at all. They know we are all replaceable given time.
Well they aint going to get another Dime from me ever again. My money is on Star Citizen now.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)