aquarius already has raider stats. low hitpoints , 6 weapons, some universals. i dont see any reason why it shouldn't finally get a small reason to exist, with this '#flanking'.
its a ship that costs $20 in fleet mods to get in the first place, and it most likely not going to be better then this breen ship, not with that 16 turn rate the aquarius has.
I don't think the Aquarius is really intended for serious use; just available as fluff to entice Odyssey owners to part with more money.
The Aquarius could surely use some love - no doubt there. I joked yesterday that it gave up a rear weapon slot in return for that -6 turn rate. But we'd rather just fix the Aquarius without challenging its identity - it's not a raider, it's just an escort that needs better stats.
It is good news to see the ship's inadequacy recognised. It'll be interesting to see how that pans out.
The Aquarius could surely use some love - no doubt there. I joked yesterday that it gave up a rear weapon slot in return for that -6 turn rate. But we'd rather just fix the Aquarius without challenging its identity - it's not a raider, it's just an escort that needs better stats.
Great to hear! Looking forward to seeing what you guys come up with.
The Aquarius could surely use some love - no doubt there. I joked yesterday that it gave up a rear weapon slot in return for that -6 turn rate. But we'd rather just fix the Aquarius without challenging its identity - it's not a raider, it's just an escort that needs better stats.
Give it something close to risian corvette stats. That way it keeps its "non cloaking bop" feel, but also has the speed ability to not be completely useless.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
The Aquarius could surely use some love - no doubt there. I joked yesterday that it gave up a rear weapon slot in return for that -6 turn rate. But we'd rather just fix the Aquarius without challenging its identity - it's not a raider, it's just an escort that needs better stats.
The Aquarius could surely use some love - no doubt there. I joked yesterday that it gave up a rear weapon slot in return for that -6 turn rate. But we'd rather just fix the Aquarius without challenging its identity - it's not a raider, it's just an escort that needs better stats.
Feds have need for an engineering-focused frigate. Think of a lighter version of the Steamrunner that doesnt cost RL $$$ from steam. Its possible to kind of fill that gap with the Risian corvette but its not enough.
Devblog is up. Bird of Prey is now the ultimate alpha striker.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Great to know I can skip the winter event this year. No boff or console layout will ever convince me to use a ship that has less then 30k hull and no cloak. Already learned my lesson from wasting time getting the Risian Corvette. I'll stick with a Fleet Hoh'sus as a raider myself, no need for the new Breen Raider.
Well it is a dps race game... trek emphasis went out the window a long time ago.
Doesn't mean I'm going to celebrate additions that make it continuously worse. Game already has way too much DPS, and I was really hoping the Raider Buff would have absolutely nothing to do with damage. Instead its nothing but. Lame.
The Aquarius could surely use some love - no doubt there. I joked yesterday that it gave up a rear weapon slot in return for that -6 turn rate. But we'd rather just fix the Aquarius without challenging its identity - it's not a raider, it's just an escort that needs better stats.
i would argue that its identity is already that of a raider, its merely been classified wrong. it would loose nothing, and nothing would have to be altered, if its classification was simply changed to raider. it currently violates some basic parameters of an escort, but none of a raiders parameters. except maybe that turn rate.
theres a problem with just buffing it to escort levels, how freaking tiny the ship is. ive never liked that tiny escorts and large cruisers all had the same number of station powers and the same number of consoles, what good is that size advantage they have? all it does for them if give them a worse turn rate.
frankly, buffing it to be more like an escort just doesn't jive with its size. thats why everyone is saying you should just make it a raider.
a turn rate of 21, the same station setup as the breen raider, and maybe a 1 fleet mod discount for anyone who bought an ody from the c store are what this incredibly tiny ship needs, its to much of an immersion breaker for this thing to get beefy-er, then it is for it to get raidery-er.
Well it is a dps race game... trek emphasis went out the window a long time ago.
That and BoPs are one of the biggest victims of power creep thanks to LOR. They could do with been thrown a bone to keep them a viable choice for KDF players.
Well assuming that that it is not just another empty promise that the devs are so fond of when it comes to anything KDF.
That and BoPs are one of the biggest victims of power creep thanks to LOR. They could do with been thrown a bone to keep them a viable choice for KDF players.
Well assuming that that it is not just another empty promise that the devs are so fond of when it comes to anything KDF.
Besides that my biggest bone is having an alternate look to hoh'sus and 1k day vet ship. I want to atleast make it look in appearance to be something still Trek lol. Flying go'kart and star wars bop for that raptor lol. The bops main weakness is we have no 5 fore weapons one, no 5 tact console as well, along with that void of power lol. The flanking thing will pretty much get the weapons damage % in line. The next problem will be the approach if any they take on the matching up the KDF bops with the 5 fore weapon issue where we have none at all of those. As well any romulan or fed character has access to both of those.
The Aquarius could surely use some love - no doubt there. I joked yesterday that it gave up a rear weapon slot in return for that -6 turn rate. But we'd rather just fix the Aquarius without challenging its identity - it's not a raider, it's just an escort that needs better stats.
Wow, glad you noticed! :P
In case some other reference points would be useful, here is my review of the ship from July 2012.
1) Aquarius Base Turn = 16 vs. Hegh'ta Base Turn = 21
2) Hegh'ta gets innate Battle Cloak vs. Aquarius gets Nothing
3) Aquarius Shield Mod = 0.66 (regular) & 0.72 (Fleet) vs. RA Hegh'ta Shield Mod 0.8
4) Hegh'ta completely universal BOFF stations including Commander & Lt Commander vs. Aquarius with Uni Lt & Ensign.
5) Hegh'ta 120k dilithium or free choice at level up vs. Aquarius at 2K Z points and T4 Fleet Shipyard.
The Aquarius is a Hegh'ta with no battle cloak and no special ability at all with even less shields than the Hegh'ta and less turn rate than a Defiant - much less a Hegh'ta.
Battle cloak, which grants both an offense bonus as well as a defense tool to compensate for poor survivability is no where to be found on this ship, nor is any equivalent ability of comparable power.
The design of this ship fails on multiple levels, on top of that it costs 2k Z points for ONE character and requires a T4 Fleet ship yard! Last edited by ussultimatum; 07-15-2012 at 12:50 AM.
It's a shame too, as the art for the Aquarius is very good.
The Aquarius could surely use some love - no doubt there. I joked yesterday that it gave up a rear weapon slot in return for that -6 turn rate. But we'd rather just fix the Aquarius without challenging its identity - it's not a raider, it's just an escort that needs better stats.
It is certainly in need of more than a little bit of love. That said, a shame but flavor-wise understandable that the Federation doesn't get Raiders. Puzzling that Romulans don't, but then people would complain if their "Raider" Warbirds missed out on singularity powers.
Fleet Leader of the first completed T5 Shipyard on Holodeck (January 24, 2013)
Part of the first team to beat the No Win Scenario (both KDF and Fed)
It's been a long road, getting from there to here~
The Aquarius could surely use some love - no doubt there. I joked yesterday that it gave up a rear weapon slot in return for that -6 turn rate. But we'd rather just fix the Aquarius without challenging its identity - it's not a raider, it's just an escort that needs better stats.
We have no plans to re-classify any existing Federation or Romulan ships as Raiders at this time. We also are not currently working on any Starfleet or Romulan Raiders. The new Raider mechanic will be exclusive to the Breen Raider at launch, and after testing and tuning it with this ship, we anticipate expanding it to all KDF Raiders in the near future.
Nice to have an extended explanation.
This ought to somewhat please KDF players. Something unique for them.
... unless you're a Federation or Romulan flying this latest Breen ship. :P
Edit: Blue & Green players are probably going to despise me for this, but (aside from Breen/Other Alien) designs, please keep the Raider Dynamic specific to the Klingons. It's about time the Federation and Klingon played differently, and got some unique toys to play with. Aside from the Klingon Cloak (of which the Gal-X and Defiant have, in addition to all the Romulans/Remans) there was nothing unique about the Klingons.
In case some other reference points would be useful, here is my review of the ship from July 2012.
It's a shame too, as the art for the Aquarius is very good.
The shield mods worked a bit strangely back then. Now the Aquarius/Fleet Aquarius have 0.85/0.94 mods. It looses big time though...
That said, I believe this Failquarius should get Flanking and be classified as a raider. If you say FEDs don't raid and so can't have a raider, think about what your FEDs are doing ingame. Think about 'good' republican Romulans using Thalaron weapons on their dreads... If you say this flanking mechanic should remain KDF specific, I can understand it, but it won't remain limited to KDF for long (heck, the first ship with it is available to all factions), nothing does anymore.
In the same vein, the Ha'Apax/Haakona and the D'Deridex should get some cruiser commands.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Mmm, an actual boost to raiders, for once. This'll bring me back for the winter, I think. Can't wait to try out that 'reduced damage boost' against players in PvP, and see how much of a difference it makes.
I might even bother to get the Plesh Brek. I never even tried to get the Chel Grett, wasn't interested in doing an ice race 25 times for a ship I wasn't especially interested in.
We have no plans to re-classify any existing Federation or Romulan ships as Raiders at this time. We also are not currently working on any Starfleet or Romulan Raiders. The new Raider mechanic will be exclusive to the Breen Raider at launch, and after testing and tuning it with this ship, we anticipate expanding it to all KDF Raiders in the near future.
So if it's not a raider... what exactly do you classify the Aquarius as?
He said "No plans in the IMMEDIATE future." Not "no Plans" or "Definitely not".
here's how I see it (mind this is only a hypothesis, but there's historical examples in-game of this, so I think it's pretty solid.)
It's more like they can only concentrate on one thing at a time - which is why addressing the "escorts online" question is answered first with Cruiser Commands, then Raider Flanking.
The pattern is they will work their way through the other ships to give them more distinctive roles.
I always figured the Aquariuos to be a light destroyer that came to be because the fanbase asked for a playable version of the pet and got a lesser Defiant in the deal.
Comments
I don't think the Aquarius is really intended for serious use; just available as fluff to entice Odyssey owners to part with more money.
Edit: I wrote my post before this:
It is good news to see the ship's inadequacy recognised. It'll be interesting to see how that pans out.
Great to hear! Looking forward to seeing what you guys come up with.
Give it something close to risian corvette stats. That way it keeps its "non cloaking bop" feel, but also has the speed ability to not be completely useless.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
They should just have 8 fore slots.
Feds have need for an engineering-focused frigate. Think of a lighter version of the Steamrunner that doesnt cost RL $$$ from steam. Its possible to kind of fill that gap with the Risian corvette but its not enough.
Hull: 30,000
Shield Modifier: 0.9
Weapons: 4/3
Crew: 50
Turn Rate: 17
BOFFs: 3, 1, 4, 2, 2
Consoles: 4, 2, 4
That is basically the same hull/shields/turn as the Defiant, the same console layout as the Blockade Runner, and an engi-centric BOFF layout.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
mwa hahaha, eat it, romulan tvaro scum
well whenever it finally gets onto the bops
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Well it is a dps race game... trek emphasis went out the window a long time ago.
Doesn't mean I'm going to celebrate additions that make it continuously worse. Game already has way too much DPS, and I was really hoping the Raider Buff would have absolutely nothing to do with damage. Instead its nothing but. Lame.
i would argue that its identity is already that of a raider, its merely been classified wrong. it would loose nothing, and nothing would have to be altered, if its classification was simply changed to raider. it currently violates some basic parameters of an escort, but none of a raiders parameters. except maybe that turn rate.
theres a problem with just buffing it to escort levels, how freaking tiny the ship is. ive never liked that tiny escorts and large cruisers all had the same number of station powers and the same number of consoles, what good is that size advantage they have? all it does for them if give them a worse turn rate.
frankly, buffing it to be more like an escort just doesn't jive with its size. thats why everyone is saying you should just make it a raider.
a turn rate of 21, the same station setup as the breen raider, and maybe a 1 fleet mod discount for anyone who bought an ody from the c store are what this incredibly tiny ship needs, its to much of an immersion breaker for this thing to get beefy-er, then it is for it to get raidery-er.
That and BoPs are one of the biggest victims of power creep thanks to LOR. They could do with been thrown a bone to keep them a viable choice for KDF players.
Well assuming that that it is not just another empty promise that the devs are so fond of when it comes to anything KDF.
Besides that my biggest bone is having an alternate look to hoh'sus and 1k day vet ship. I want to atleast make it look in appearance to be something still Trek lol. Flying go'kart and star wars bop for that raptor lol. The bops main weakness is we have no 5 fore weapons one, no 5 tact console as well, along with that void of power lol. The flanking thing will pretty much get the weapons damage % in line. The next problem will be the approach if any they take on the matching up the KDF bops with the 5 fore weapon issue where we have none at all of those. As well any romulan or fed character has access to both of those.
Thissler will be pleased! :cool:
Wow, glad you noticed! :P
In case some other reference points would be useful, here is my review of the ship from July 2012.
It's a shame too, as the art for the Aquarius is very good.
Part of the first team to beat the No Win Scenario (both KDF and Fed)
It's been a long road, getting from there to here~
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This ought to somewhat please KDF players. Something unique for them.
... unless you're a Federation or Romulan flying this latest Breen ship. :P
Edit: Blue & Green players are probably going to despise me for this, but (aside from Breen/Other Alien) designs, please keep the Raider Dynamic specific to the Klingons. It's about time the Federation and Klingon played differently, and got some unique toys to play with. Aside from the Klingon Cloak (of which the Gal-X and Defiant have, in addition to all the Romulans/Remans) there was nothing unique about the Klingons.
The shield mods worked a bit strangely back then. Now the Aquarius/Fleet Aquarius have 0.85/0.94 mods. It looses big time though...
That said, I believe this Failquarius should get Flanking and be classified as a raider. If you say FEDs don't raid and so can't have a raider, think about what your FEDs are doing ingame. Think about 'good' republican Romulans using Thalaron weapons on their dreads... If you say this flanking mechanic should remain KDF specific, I can understand it, but it won't remain limited to KDF for long (heck, the first ship with it is available to all factions), nothing does anymore.
In the same vein, the Ha'Apax/Haakona and the D'Deridex should get some cruiser commands.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
I might even bother to get the Plesh Brek. I never even tried to get the Chel Grett, wasn't interested in doing an ice race 25 times for a ship I wasn't especially interested in.
Good work, Cryptic. Keep it up
So if it's not a raider... what exactly do you classify the Aquarius as?
It's more like they can only concentrate on one thing at a time - which is why addressing the "escorts online" question is answered first with Cruiser Commands, then Raider Flanking.
The pattern is they will work their way through the other ships to give them more distinctive roles.
R.I.P
My character Tsin'xing