IMO, the Haakona (matata) is a first attempt at MVAE which in essence, is just a step below saucer separation. With saucer Sep and MVAE, you have a single streamlined ship that separates into smaller combat/warp capable segments. With the Haakona, it is very clearly a ship stuffed up another ships butt. If the Romulans like raptors and warbirds, the Haakona is a Turducken... Even looking at the design from the announcement post, you can clearly see where the ship is two separate ships, when on the Fed ships, you can't tell until you see it in action.
While the Haakona is supposedly based on MVAE technology, it is done is such a poor way, that i might as well duct tape a personal shield unit and an antiproton rifle to a Tricobalt and call it the Romulan version of a Bioneural warhead.
Staying on topic though, i do agree with a lot of people that the Raiders should be Faction specifics for the KDF only. Although i wouldn't mind seeing faction specifics for the other two as well. Maybe something like the feds getting exploration ships with better sensor de/buffs but less offense, or Romulan ships built for cloaked espionage that dropped cloaked mines. Raiders are clearly more of a KDF thing since they have the Orions and Nausicaans, but the other two factions need something just as unique to keep people from complaining too much. They'll complain either way, but at least if it's fair and balanced, there would be less of it.
I am curious though to see what the Raider trait is going to be. Maybe something like Cruiser commands? My Orion Captain is loving her bop, but I wouldn't mind getting her in something a little more suited for looting and piracy.
Okay, playing devil's advocate here for a moment. Does the Federation have anything unique? As far as I can tell the Romulans are the only ones with their sucky cores (pun intended).
well the feds have the avenger with it's armored look and the console other then that idk lol
I think for now its the new Breen ship and the Klingon BoPs players wise, although I'm curious if it will effect pets like the BoP that the Borq can summon or the BoP hangar pets or even NPCs.
Interesting news in latest Dev blog about new Breen cloak-less Raider and new mechanics for Raiders.
I sincerely do hope they come up with something interesting that would give incentive to play cloak-less Raiders, because
1. I like the design of the new Raider as shown in Dev blog
2. I'm in love with Aquarius design, but I never got one due to it's inferior stats (basically BoP without cloak) - however if it is designated Raider and if the new mechanics is interesting, then it may be just the tipping point for me to finally get it
wait a little bit, by this time next year, the Feds will have a battlecloaking raider with better stats than anything in the KDF arsenal, as fits with the Avenger as the example, while KDF players get an IOU and "someday".
Woah slow your role there cupcake, the Avenger is stealing from the Romulans lineup from the Scimitar.
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
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Feds don't get Raiders, cuase of the simple fact that Feds don't "raid", not their style. Feds can stick with the free Breen frigate, KDF gets the real raiders.
so currently.... yes only KDF have raider class vessels. despite what you wish, the Saber, and defiant are classed as escorts. the Aquarius is classed as a destroyer, and the T'Varo is still a warbird.
true Non c-store science ships.
that means nothing.
as for the smaller frigate sized ships, these can be reclassified like the ToS at any time.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
do note though, that outside of 1 C-store ship of 2 KDF ship types, fed's dont have their own ship lines (not counting cross faction ships here) for both battlecruisers and carriers. so per faction, technically the KDF still has majority.
Unless I'm mistaken Fed side is the only one with ships that have 4 different cruiser commands.
Feds are more into diplomacy so having raiders is not their strategy, so it wouldn't make sense. This should only be available for Birds of Pray and any new kdf raider ships.
Feds don't get Raiders, cuase of the simple fact that Feds don't "raid", not their style. Feds can stick with the free Breen frigate, KDF gets the real raiders.
Actually Aquarius is technically a raider - and I mean Raider as the STO ship category, not that Feds will actually "raid" some pure and innocent Klinks with it. Not that there are pure and innocent Klinks anyway :-).
I think that by raider we mean a ship that employs "hit and run" tactics and such tactics can work for any side of the conflict. However battle cloak obviously does help in this so I'm really looking forward to see what Cryptics have in their pocketses...
Theres no reason federation cannot have a "Raider" class ship. raiding and pillaging do not always go hand in hand. In times of war small and fast attack ships with minimal personnel would be quite usefull. Taking out sensor or communication arrays, disrupting supply lines. Any target that they could get in hit it hard and get out again are perfect roles for a raider and make for good tactics. They may not come in and pilage but they could cause enough damage to make it far harder to wage war as well as force you to pull ships off of the front lines for escorting supply lines or guarding facilities. Being small and minimal crew is good as well, cheaper and easier to replace the ship and less crew to lose if they fail. Plus Sisko and the admiral aproved of sending raids during the dominion war to wreak havoc behind the lines so raiding is not against fed policy, pilaging is.
No the only reason someone doesnt like the idea of fed raider class ships is childish "I don't want them to have my toys" attitudes.
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"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Okay, playing devil's advocate here for a moment. Does the Federation have anything unique? As far as I can tell the Romulans are the only ones with their sucky cores (pun intended).
What about the Galaxy-X? While the Garaumba got the lance as a counter, it is still an escort, while the Galaxy-X is a Dreadnaught. And lets not forget the planned upgrades, where she will saucer seperate and the lance turn into a shotgun. That's pretty unique, don't you agree?
Or the MVAM. Best to my knowledge, not one KDF ship has a separation feature. (Mentioned on previous Pages, the Haakona is more like the Galaxy Seperation).
And then there is the Vesta, Auxillary Power Cannons?
Oh and how about the Armitage, while Klingons got their "Flight Deck Cruisers", this is an escort with them. How many KDF Escorts have this feature? :P
no they are not the defient and t'varo both have hulls and shield mods way more than brel, the defient and t'varo are escorts not raiders
heavily armed, lightly armoured and shielded, maneuverable and minimum crew of 50 with a regular compliment of 80. it fits the raider motive the defiant. t'varo is a raider as well. such resistance to the idea. you see this is why i want official confirmation.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
heavily armed, lightly armoured and shielded, maneuverable and minimum crew of 50 with a regular compliment of 80. it fits the raider motive the defiant. t'varo is a raider as well. such resistance to the idea. you see this is why i want official confirmation.
Ironically, that description doesn't fit the raiders as comfortably as the Defiant and most of the Warbirds, with the 4/2 weapon layout and limited tac console slots the BoP's get.
Ironically, that description doesn't fit the raiders as comfortably as the Defiant and most of the Warbirds, with the 4/2 weapon layout and limited tac console slots the BoP's get.
lets find out first. ironic or not, it could be perversely ironic the way cryptic could do it.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Actually Aquarius is technically a raider - and I mean Raider as the STO ship category, not that Feds will actually "raid" some pure and innocent Klinks with it. Not that there are pure and innocent Klinks anyway :-).
I think that by raider we mean a ship that employs "hit and run" tactics and such tactics can work for any side of the conflict. However battle cloak obviously does help in this so I'm really looking forward to see what Cryptics have in their pocketses...
Technically its not. Raiders only exist as a KDF classification in STO which covers more than HnR tactics.
The Aquariuos is a destroyer class vessel, fast, well armed and capable of lightning strike across enemy lines.
I question the Breen Plesh Raider's staus. If it has no cloak, how can it be a raider?
Cloak does not soley define a raider. If the Breen Raider has a plethora of Universal Boff slots then that gives it the versatility that defines a raider.
I question any ship that claims the raider status, but has no cloak.
Not going to be doing much raiding without one lol
Cloaking does not define a raider. If the Breen Raider has a plethora of Universal Boff slots then it will have the versatility of purpose that defines a raider class vessel.
Cloak does not soley define a raider. If the Breen Raider has a plethora of Universal Boff slots then that gives it the versatility that defines a raider.
It should though. A bop's best weapon is it's battle cloak. It makes up for the lower stats than the normal escorts, and being able to get in and out undetected very quickly should be a base level..
Cloaking does not define a raider. If the Breen Raider has a plethora of Universal Boff slots then it will have the versatility of purpose that defines a raider class vessel.
The definition of a raider is: A surprise attack by a small armed force.
How would you do a surprise attack without a cloak?
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i.e. cruisers got cruiser commands
Seeing as the Birds of Prey are so fragile if they are going to be glass cannons then I suppose they need to be more cannon-y if not less glass-y
While the Haakona is supposedly based on MVAE technology, it is done is such a poor way, that i might as well duct tape a personal shield unit and an antiproton rifle to a Tricobalt and call it the Romulan version of a Bioneural warhead.
Staying on topic though, i do agree with a lot of people that the Raiders should be Faction specifics for the KDF only. Although i wouldn't mind seeing faction specifics for the other two as well. Maybe something like the feds getting exploration ships with better sensor de/buffs but less offense, or Romulan ships built for cloaked espionage that dropped cloaked mines. Raiders are clearly more of a KDF thing since they have the Orions and Nausicaans, but the other two factions need something just as unique to keep people from complaining too much. They'll complain either way, but at least if it's fair and balanced, there would be less of it.
I am curious though to see what the Raider trait is going to be. Maybe something like Cruiser commands? My Orion Captain is loving her bop, but I wouldn't mind getting her in something a little more suited for looting and piracy.
Flip the weapon slots around. Six fore, one aft.
well the feds have the avenger with it's armored look and the console other then that idk lol
I sincerely do hope they come up with something interesting that would give incentive to play cloak-less Raiders, because
1. I like the design of the new Raider as shown in Dev blog
2. I'm in love with Aquarius design, but I never got one due to it's inferior stats (basically BoP without cloak) - however if it is designated Raider and if the new mechanics is interesting, then it may be just the tipping point for me to finally get it
Woah slow your role there cupcake, the Avenger is stealing from the Romulans lineup from the Scimitar.
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If that were the case, Avengers would have a battle cloak and a hangar
Cruiser commands pretty much cover singularity abilities.
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I meant the 5/3 cannonade part. It has the crappy deifant cloak at least
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that means nothing.
as for the smaller frigate sized ships, these can be reclassified like the ToS at any time.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Unless I'm mistaken Fed side is the only one with ships that have 4 different cruiser commands.
Actually Aquarius is technically a raider - and I mean Raider as the STO ship category, not that Feds will actually "raid" some pure and innocent Klinks with it. Not that there are pure and innocent Klinks anyway :-).
I think that by raider we mean a ship that employs "hit and run" tactics and such tactics can work for any side of the conflict. However battle cloak obviously does help in this so I'm really looking forward to see what Cryptics have in their pocketses...
No the only reason someone doesnt like the idea of fed raider class ships is childish "I don't want them to have my toys" attitudes.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
What about the Galaxy-X? While the Garaumba got the lance as a counter, it is still an escort, while the Galaxy-X is a Dreadnaught. And lets not forget the planned upgrades, where she will saucer seperate and the lance turn into a shotgun. That's pretty unique, don't you agree?
Or the MVAM. Best to my knowledge, not one KDF ship has a separation feature. (Mentioned on previous Pages, the Haakona is more like the Galaxy Seperation).
And then there is the Vesta, Auxillary Power Cannons?
Oh and how about the Armitage, while Klingons got their "Flight Deck Cruisers", this is an escort with them. How many KDF Escorts have this feature? :P
heavily armed, lightly armoured and shielded, maneuverable and minimum crew of 50 with a regular compliment of 80. it fits the raider motive the defiant. t'varo is a raider as well. such resistance to the idea. you see this is why i want official confirmation.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Ironically, that description doesn't fit the raiders as comfortably as the Defiant and most of the Warbirds, with the 4/2 weapon layout and limited tac console slots the BoP's get.
lets find out first. ironic or not, it could be perversely ironic the way cryptic could do it.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Technically its not. Raiders only exist as a KDF classification in STO which covers more than HnR tactics.
The Aquariuos is a destroyer class vessel, fast, well armed and capable of lightning strike across enemy lines.
R.I.P
Cloak does not soley define a raider. If the Breen Raider has a plethora of Universal Boff slots then that gives it the versatility that defines a raider.
R.I.P
Not going to be doing much raiding without one lol
Cloaking does not define a raider. If the Breen Raider has a plethora of Universal Boff slots then it will have the versatility of purpose that defines a raider class vessel.
R.I.P
It should though. A bop's best weapon is it's battle cloak. It makes up for the lower stats than the normal escorts, and being able to get in and out undetected very quickly should be a base level..
Only sad thing about all this is the no-fixed-wing-b'rel class thing.
The definition of a raider is: A surprise attack by a small armed force.
How would you do a surprise attack without a cloak?