Fleet Grind is horrendous, but what can you expect? The game demands you be in a fleet to do these things, and naturally the more people you have to contribute to the project, the faster it will get done. By not being a member of a large fleet, you are responsible for your own misery.
Before you ask, no, I am not a member of a large fleet, and am currently experiencing the same grind you are. The difference being that I mainly contribute Fleet Marks as opposed to Dilithium, since I use my Dil for my own purposes (getting my sci up to tier 5 Dyson and my engi up to tier 5 Omega).
Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
Why spend the money creating content when you can get your paying customers to do it for you?
ye i know
if it pans out anything like what i wrote i hope they compensate the authors involved healthily.
Valve would hire them
but then i did basically say they should somehow let the fans make the content in my very first "dear john" to STO so i can't really say to much about that...
at the same time the STO team at cyptic...at least historically...hasn't been able to spend much money to make new content for this game...STOs problem has always been a lack of content...hence why they used to make such an event like song and dance about adding just one new questline (ie "feature episodes").
that's another part of why we got doffs, its a cheap system implementation with a lot "depth". for a while "systems" and "just one new quesline every now" and again" were all that was seemily coming our way.
you kind of have to remember this game had a horrendous launch and has basically almost died...twice...
atari initially forced cryptic to throw something together so they could sit on the IP and they had little intention of spending any money improving it, then cryptic "escaped" but they still couldn't really afford to spend any money on it either and the game had to go f2p to survive...then came PWL...and lockboxes...but also, rather surprisingly, the Romulans...we keep getting hints they have more resources now so i guess we'll see...
i don't actually agree the rep systems and their associated grinds are a bad thing. for many reasons i'm not going to go into in this thread i actually think they finally rounded out the game...without them i would not be playing as much as i am and instead would no doubt be approaching the game as i used to which was basically to log in only when there was a new questline to do, do it, and then bugger off again.
you must be well peeved that you paid for lifetime sub then
no actually i'm not...
6000hrs for roughly 1000 Euro is still 6hrs per Euro spend, that is still more time per coin than i get out of most other Retail boxed games (but then i don't buy most games new or at full price... whatever).
(5+ retail boxes, some too expensive pre order codes via ebay... the STO Book "the needs of the many", 1 Year Sub, then LTA, and a huge bunch of C-Store items over time, i am sure i cracked the 1000 Euro all things considered)
i'd say i got my moneys worth out of it, i'm just sad that it has to end like this and am still hoping for Cryptic to do something that gets me back into it, but honestly, at the moment, i just don't see it happening.
*very quiet voice* actually the doff system was basically one guy working on an idea mostly on his own and is just a big grind of a "collect cards" game...
there is apparently going to be a move to incorporate the foundry more closely into the game. Sthal has been talking about each planet people beam down to while exploring potentially being a foundry map.
I am very well aware of Heretics work on the DOff System, in fact i even had short contact with him lately about a new game / engine that he is working on as a semi-secret side project ( it should be enough to say for now that any DOff Fans should bookmark jubal.com and keep an eye out for that game called "Org" ).
And for DStahl ... no offense but the man talks more about things he would like to see happen himself, than things that have a real chance to happen. That Exploration through Foundry update, if it ever happens is still years away, don't get your hopes up.
All of these grind posts on all the MMOs basically boil down to one thing: What actions you're taking and what rewards you want to be getting from them.
On one hand you have fleets that have 500 players all of whom play 100 hours a week. You have to give them things to do, goals to work towards that will take them 2 or 3 months to accomplish.
How do you balance that for a small fleet? There's no way that you can give a small casual fleet the same goals that can be achieved in the same time. The uproar would be, no pun intended, galactic.
The OP is talking about the things he -wants- to do, vs the things he feels he -has- to do.
No one's forcing you to do those things.
STO is like every other MMO in existence. In fact, effort/reward in MMOs is really just like real life.
If you want X, and Y is the cost, you must pay Y.
If you don't want to pay Y, then you don't get X.
Sounds pretty simple to me.
If you want to advance your fleet, do fleet stuff. If you want to advance your personal reputation, do reputation stuff.
If you're arguing that the things that advance fleet stuff aren't as -fun- as the things that advance personal rep stuff, then that's a completely different issue.
But of course large fleets will advance their holdings faster than small fleets. Large companies in the real world have more resources than small companies. Large companies have massive buildings, private jets, all sorts of things that small companies don't have. It's simply a question of scale and manpower.
If it costs three hundred thousand tons of tritanium to build the smallest possible starbase, it costs three hundred thousand tons of tritanium. The starbase doesn't care of you're a small fleet or a large fleet. It's gonna want that three hundred thousand tons, one way or another. More people contributing tritanium will obviously get to that total faster than less.
All of these grind posts on all the MMOs basically boil down to one thing: What actions you're taking and what rewards you want to be getting from them.
On one hand you have fleets that have 500 players all of whom play 100 hours a week. You have to give them things to do, goals to work towards that will take them 2 or 3 months to accomplish.
How do you balance that for a small fleet? There's no way that you can give a small casual fleet the same goals that can be achieved in the same time. The uproar would be, no pun intended, galactic.
The OP is talking about the things he -wants- to do, vs the things he feels he -has- to do.
No one's forcing you to do those things.
STO is like every other MMO in existence. In fact, effort/reward in MMOs is really just like real life.
If you want X, and Y is the cost, you must pay Y.
If you don't want to pay Y, then you don't get X.
Sounds pretty simple to me.
If you want to advance your fleet, do fleet stuff. If you want to advance your personal reputation, do reputation stuff.
If you're arguing that the things that advance fleet stuff aren't as -fun- as the things that advance personal rep stuff, then that's a completely different issue.
But of course large fleets will advance their holdings faster than small fleets. Large companies in the real world have more resources than small companies. Large companies have massive buildings, private jets, all sorts of things that small companies don't have. It's simply a question of scale and manpower.
If it costs three hundred thousand tons of tritanium to build the smallest possible starbase, it costs three hundred thousand tons of tritanium. The starbase doesn't care of you're a small fleet or a large fleet. It's gonna want that three hundred thousand tons, one way or another. More people contributing tritanium will obviously get to that total faster than less.
Except that the Starbase isn't real and the price is decided by Cryptic not actual scarcity.
I agree, it is backbreaking work for small fleets. Well small fleets of casual players, since Hardcore players will have no trouble with such a thing.
.
Sorry but I don't agree. I have a small fleet and don't want any handouts or subsidies. SO please DONT speak for the rest of us. Enjoy the ride and WHY did you make a fleet if you don't want to go through the hassle. There's no EASY BUTTON and if you think its too much work...well take a break and let others build it. Leadership reflects a lot into how a small fleet makes it or break it. Like anything else if you are not successful don't blame it on others or DEVs and ask for a handout. This is not how the real world should work.
I do agree with the monotony and grinding of the game but so it is for any other MMO. Nobody is putting a gun or forcing you....my advice is let others help out and if you don't see it grow...then join or merge with other fleets who can. How do you think Large fleets got were they are? They all have to start from somewhere. If you are not a good leader let others try it. Not many are born to lead. :cool:
Sorry but I don't agree. I have a small fleet and don't want any handouts or subsidies. SO please DONT speak for the rest of us. Enjoy the ride and WHY did you make a fleet if you don't want to go through the hassle. There's no EASY BUTTON and if you think its too much work...well take a break and let others build it. Leadership reflects a lot into how a small fleet makes it or break it. Like anything else if you are not successful don't blame it on others or DEVs and ask for a handout. This is not how the real world should work.
I do agree with the monotony and grinding of the game but so it is for any other MMO. Nobody is putting a gun or forcing you....my advice is let others help out and if you don't see it grow...then join or merge with other fleets who can. How do you think Large fleets got were they are? They all have to start from somewhere. If you are not a good leader let others try it. Not many are born to lead. :cool:
Ugh. I'll try to let the cliches ("No one is putting a gun to your head" especially) go for this one and focus on the content.
If you're not alting for some huge fleet and really do enjoy long slow grinds, that's great. Thing is, you're not speaking for the other guy, nor is your "I struggle and love it!" thing going to be of any use to other fleets that don't share your position. Some people enjoy being paddled for sensual gratification, but only a very selfish person would assume that everyone wants the same paddling.
I speak from the point of view of being a member of a rather large fleet that's almost completely done with its starbase.
Ugh. I'll try to let the cliches ("No one is putting a gun to your head" especially) go for this one and focus on the content.
If you're not alting for some huge fleet and really do enjoy long slow grinds, that's great. Thing is, you're not speaking for the other guy, nor is your "I struggle and love it!" thing going to be of any use to other fleets that don't share your position. Some people enjoy being paddled for sensual gratification, but only a very selfish person would assume that everyone wants the same paddling.
I speak from the point of view of being a member of a rather large fleet that's almost completely done with its starbase.
So what's your point?
Just speaking my mind. I respect your opinion and to each its own. All I can say is that leadership is not for everyone. I will end with that point. Easy and simple
Sorry but I don't agree. I have a small fleet and don't want any handouts or subsidies. SO please DONT speak for the rest of us. Enjoy the ride and WHY did you make a fleet if you don't want to go through the hassle. There's no EASY BUTTON and if you think its too much work...well take a break and let others build it. Leadership reflects a lot into how a small fleet makes it or break it. Like anything else if you are not successful don't blame it on others or DEVs and ask for a handout. This is not how the real world should work.
I do agree with the monotony and grinding of the game but so it is for any other MMO. Nobody is putting a gun or forcing you....my advice is let others help out and if you don't see it grow...then join or merge with other fleets who can. How do you think Large fleets got were they are? They all have to start from somewhere. If you are not a good leader let others try it. Not many are born to lead. :cool:
You condemn me for "speaking for small fleets" and yet I don't recall YOU being the voice of small fleets either. Nothing but hypocritical hooplah.
And point out where I said I wanted handouts? Go on, point it out! :mad: Guess what? I DIDN'T!
All I wanted is small fleets to be balanced! Why should we put in the same amount of work Large Fleets do! Small fleets have to pay more than those in large fleets, and at the same time large fleets are in desperate need for fleet credits, which means they don't have enough of a workload. AND THAT WAS MY POINT!
You condemn me for "speaking for small fleets" and yet I don't recall YOU being the voice of small fleets either. Nothing but hypocritical hooplah.
And point out where I said I wanted handouts? Go on, point it out! :mad: Guess what? I DIDN'T!
All I wanted is small fleets to be balanced! Why should we put in the same amount of work Large Fleets do! Small fleets have to pay more than those in large fleets, and at the same time large fleets are in desperate need for fleet credits, which means they don't have enough of a workload. AND THAT WAS MY POINT!
Dude take a CHILL pill!!!
I don't speak for you as you shouldn't speak for me...and good luck with that attitude.
I don't speak for you as you shouldn't speak for me...and good luck with that fleet with that attitude.
Yes, I will have an attitude when you put words in my mouth and tell me "you don't speak for me" and then go around acting like you are the spokesman instead. Then on top of it, you insult my fleet. :rolleyes:
You condemn me for "speaking for small fleets" and yet I don't recall YOU being the voice of small fleets either. Nothing but hypocritical hooplah.
And point out where I said I wanted handouts? Go on, point it out! :mad: Guess what? I DIDN'T!
All I wanted is small fleets to be balanced! Why should we put in the same amount of work Large Fleets do! Small fleets have to pay more than those in large fleets, and at the same time large fleets are in desperate need for fleet credits, which means they don't have enough of a workload. AND THAT WAS MY POINT!
Always have to get the last word...one of those...not insulting anyone so please don't Troll ...but sorry if you have a BAD ATTITUDE good luck with that :eek:
i think my main points here are 1 being the more they can find a way for us to grind, they will implement it just like they recently did with EC farming in foundry missions.
And 2, there has to be some way to make this game cater for ALL fleets and not just the LARGE.
Thing is, we grind for every known currency in game, and it is ALL tied to one thing, REAL money. So, they are making it either grind or pay dollars. Thats fine, if you have plenty of dollars to throw away. But, if you want yeah grind dill and trade it for zen. Either way, this game is turning into a grindfest game.
Since when does a game HAVE to be a grind like this?
Also, take a look around, most people are not liking it because they have to grind for months just to get something so small.
Some of you probably dont realise it yet, i dont know. But they are making it A LOT harder to get anywhere. E;g, I done a mission in the sphere the other night, it took about half hour to an hour to complete and all i got was a tight 24 fleet marks. That was WITH using the fleet mark bonus pool.
PWE ARE tight.
I mean, what is the purpose of nerfing the slipstream drive when entering a new sector? It defeats the purpose of having a advanced slipstream drive now because you dont get to use the full potential. If that isn't being tight, then what is?
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
If you were looking for fleet marks, the Sphere is not where I'd go to grind them: try the Crystaline Entity. That gives 80 + 5 Fleet Marks if you catch it during the bonus marks event.
DStahl knew and even said it wasn't going to be easy for those in small fleets. So WHY not do something about it and CATER for ALL fleets of ALL shapes and sizes??? Is that too much to ask? I don't think it is!!
That is pointed at the naysayers, not DStahl or Cryptic/Pwe
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
6000hrs for roughly 1000 Euro is still 6hrs per Euro spend, that is still more time per coin than i get out of most other Retail boxed games (but then i don't buy most games new or at full price... whatever).
(5+ retail boxes, some too expensive pre order codes via ebay... the STO Book "the needs of the many", 1 Year Sub, then LTA, and a huge bunch of C-Store items over time, i am sure i cracked the 1000 Euro all things considered)
i'd say i got my moneys worth out of it, i'm just sad that it has to end like this and am still hoping for Cryptic to do something that gets me back into it, but honestly, at the moment, i just don't see it happening.
well the way I look at it is having got lifetime sub myself if i play for the rest of my life hopefully 40-50 years at a minimum of 3 hours a day that will be from 43680 to 54600 hours of play time and I prey the game stays on line that long I might just be at a point that I would say I have got my moneys worth and with a bit of luck they will let us play sto in the afterlife so I can still keep playing for all eternity.
I love the state that the game is at now even with the few very minor bugs and I hope they keep on adding the kind of updates and special events they have been coming up with so far.
legacy was awesome as was dyson and the summer and winter events are a nice break away from the norm.
if they keep on doing what they are doing I will never leave, I am a true star trek fan and love the way they have captured the trek feeling within the game, the excitement I get from fighting the borg, voth, breen or snowmen is greater then I have got from playing any other computer game and I have played more computer games then I care to remember from the time I got my very first computer the ZX81 way back in 1981 all the way up to my latest high end pc WOW! that's over 30 years of playing computer games time sure does go quick.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
DStahl knew and even said it wasn't going to be easy for those in small fleets. So WHY not do something about it and CATER for ALL fleets of ALL shapes and sizes??? Is that too much to ask? I don't think it is!!
That is pointed at the naysayers, not DStahl or Cryptic/Pwe
How do you know they didn't?
The Fleet Invites system allows a large fleet to invite members of a small fleet into their facilities and to buy Fleet gear (less starships). Some fleets offer this for free, others charge in EC, but frankly 20M EC is not unaffordable for a focussed player. My Fed toon is a member of a medium-sized fleet, to which I am a middling contributor, but that was how I got access to T5 gear ahead of the grind. The system is so equitable that it rewards small fleet players for contributing to their fleets (with marks and provisioning that they can freely spend in a larger fleet's stores) and protects the larger fleets by using the invited player's provisioning. Frankly, the system is so amicable that I keep waiting for Cryptic to pull it., and is several orders of magnitude more equitable than anything proposed in these threads.
The *only* thing that doesn't work for is starships, but even then a simple invite / reinvite will do the trick and is not beyond the wit of man (again, the reason I can fly a Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier without my own fleet having a T5 shipyard).
It's really quite simple. If it was as easy to run a small fleet as a large, the player base would fracture into tinier and tinier groups. Possibly even 1-player fleets. That's a bad thing for a MMO, because a significant part of the appeal is in associating with others. Indeed, that is one of the benefits F2P offers - free players are in a sense allowed in to keep paying players amused. Providing a motive for people to club together and cooperate on a shared endeavour like running a fleet supports the social aspect of the game.
Basically you want to keep a small fleet but have the benefits of being a large one. How is that now having it handed to you?
They have say 50 players that work to achieve a goal.
Why should that goal be easier just because you have fewer people? How isn't that a free ride for the discounted portion?
You said it yourself, the same benefits.
Then why do small fleet players have to work harder grinding away and even forced to buy Dilithium with their real-world savings to earn those same benefits? Sure doesn't sound fair in that respect, now does it? I mean how many people in large fleets have to grind away to earn Fleet Marks? Or Dilithium? Or even chip way at their EC and Fleet Mark savings?
Answer is........they (you) don't.
By your own logic, if the benefits are the same and the investment is the same, then so should the player's time.
If you were looking for fleet marks, the Sphere is not where I'd go to grind them: try the Crystaline Entity. That gives 80 + 5 Fleet Marks if you catch it during the bonus marks event.
Wrong, the best places is on Defera doing Hards or in a group farming NWS.
It's really quite simple. If it was as easy to run a small fleet as a large, the player base would fracture into tinier and tinier groups. Possibly even 1-player fleets. That's a bad thing for a MMO, because a significant part of the appeal is in associating with others. Indeed, that is one of the benefits F2P offers - free players are in a sense allowed in to keep paying players amused. Providing a motive for people to club together and cooperate on a shared endeavour like running a fleet supports the social aspect of the game.
Fracture into smaller groups and 1-player fleets? Don't you mean how it was prior to the introduction of the Starbase system? :rolleyes:
Come now, lets be realistic, even if they did scale according to fleet size, it still take months or years for that 1-person to get to Tier 5. So why is it so devastating if someone should do that?
Realistically, STO doesn't need large fleets, because the game itself doesn't demand it. This isn't like Fantasy MMOs where large fleets are needed to do dungeon raids, or in some MMOs where numbers are power (especially with PvP). STO is best run with small fleets of friends.
Fracture into smaller groups and 1-player fleets? Don't you mean how it was prior to the introduction of the Starbase system? :rolleyes:
If that's so, now you know WHY they were introduced. If they had just wanted to sell off more dilithium items, they could have done that through the existing vendors. Instead, they introduced something that is clearly structured to motivate players to work together in groups.
Come now, lets be realistic, even if they did scale according to fleet size, it still take months or years for that 1-person to get to Tier 5. So why is it so devastating if someone should do that?
I just explained why; it would diminish the enjoyment of the players.
Realistically, STO doesn't need large fleets, because the game itself doesn't demand it.
Well clearly, the presence of the fleet system now means that it does demand it. QED.
Realistically, STO doesn't need large fleets, because the game itself doesn't demand it. This isn't like Fantasy MMOs where large fleets are needed to do dungeon raids, or in some MMOs where numbers are power (especially with PvP). STO is best run with small fleets of friends.
I agree. If this game was anything like EVE Online, then yeah, you would need a large a fleet as the content is there to support it.
STO need large fleets? i dont think so. I don't PvP at all. I have once or twice to try it, and it didnt appeal to me. I've always been a more PvE and a bit of a lone gunner. Specially with leechers in this game. I don't play with leechers just so they get loot for doin sweet fa. Soon as i spot one, i quit the mission, penalty or no penalty.
But yeah, i think the fleet system could do with......an overhaul
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
I agree this game was more fun before the Rep system only problem was you could trade EDC or Rare borg XX or list on the Exchange.
used to sell off a lot of borg mk x stuff for 80k a pop, no idea how much one could make by applying themselves at the time doing infected or cure regularly since QS is a real nasty one to get past with the two gates. and the game was more basic which made it more fun to play. problem with creating lots of additional content or better tech is that it becomes far more complicated to use and maintain. i hate technology.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Well clearly, the presence of the fleet system now means that it does demand it. QED.
Well, no.
What do large (or more accurately, advanced) fleets have that smaller (less advanced) ones don't? Better ships, gear and BOffs. Of these, only the consoles have no non-fleet equivalent quality items - otherwise you can get lockbox, lobi or rep gear of a similar standard.
Now, you can gear a character or ship to complete *any* PVE content in STO comfortably with only C-store and exchange gear. The queues mean that you don't need fleetmates to access group based missions either. So, high-end PVP aside, there is nothing in the fleet system that anyone "needs" to play the game. This, I believe, was azurianstar's point.
Cryptic's designers are not shutting anyone out from any aspect of gameplay, except perhaps PVP. Really it's quite an equitable position.
Comments
Before you ask, no, I am not a member of a large fleet, and am currently experiencing the same grind you are. The difference being that I mainly contribute Fleet Marks as opposed to Dilithium, since I use my Dil for my own purposes (getting my sci up to tier 5 Dyson and my engi up to tier 5 Omega).
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
if it pans out anything like what i wrote i hope they compensate the authors involved healthily.
Valve would hire them
but then i did basically say they should somehow let the fans make the content in my very first "dear john" to STO so i can't really say to much about that...
at the same time the STO team at cyptic...at least historically...hasn't been able to spend much money to make new content for this game...STOs problem has always been a lack of content...hence why they used to make such an event like song and dance about adding just one new questline (ie "feature episodes").
that's another part of why we got doffs, its a cheap system implementation with a lot "depth". for a while "systems" and "just one new quesline every now" and again" were all that was seemily coming our way.
you kind of have to remember this game had a horrendous launch and has basically almost died...twice...
atari initially forced cryptic to throw something together so they could sit on the IP and they had little intention of spending any money improving it, then cryptic "escaped" but they still couldn't really afford to spend any money on it either and the game had to go f2p to survive...then came PWL...and lockboxes...but also, rather surprisingly, the Romulans...we keep getting hints they have more resources now so i guess we'll see...
i don't actually agree the rep systems and their associated grinds are a bad thing. for many reasons i'm not going to go into in this thread i actually think they finally rounded out the game...without them i would not be playing as much as i am and instead would no doubt be approaching the game as i used to which was basically to log in only when there was a new questline to do, do it, and then bugger off again.
no actually i'm not...
6000hrs for roughly 1000 Euro is still 6hrs per Euro spend, that is still more time per coin than i get out of most other Retail boxed games (but then i don't buy most games new or at full price... whatever).
(5+ retail boxes, some too expensive pre order codes via ebay... the STO Book "the needs of the many", 1 Year Sub, then LTA, and a huge bunch of C-Store items over time, i am sure i cracked the 1000 Euro all things considered)
i'd say i got my moneys worth out of it, i'm just sad that it has to end like this and am still hoping for Cryptic to do something that gets me back into it, but honestly, at the moment, i just don't see it happening.
I am very well aware of Heretics work on the DOff System, in fact i even had short contact with him lately about a new game / engine that he is working on as a semi-secret side project ( it should be enough to say for now that any DOff Fans should bookmark jubal.com and keep an eye out for that game called "Org" ).
And for DStahl ... no offense but the man talks more about things he would like to see happen himself, than things that have a real chance to happen. That Exploration through Foundry update, if it ever happens is still years away, don't get your hopes up.
On one hand you have fleets that have 500 players all of whom play 100 hours a week. You have to give them things to do, goals to work towards that will take them 2 or 3 months to accomplish.
How do you balance that for a small fleet? There's no way that you can give a small casual fleet the same goals that can be achieved in the same time. The uproar would be, no pun intended, galactic.
The OP is talking about the things he -wants- to do, vs the things he feels he -has- to do.
No one's forcing you to do those things.
STO is like every other MMO in existence. In fact, effort/reward in MMOs is really just like real life.
If you want X, and Y is the cost, you must pay Y.
If you don't want to pay Y, then you don't get X.
Sounds pretty simple to me.
If you want to advance your fleet, do fleet stuff. If you want to advance your personal reputation, do reputation stuff.
If you're arguing that the things that advance fleet stuff aren't as -fun- as the things that advance personal rep stuff, then that's a completely different issue.
But of course large fleets will advance their holdings faster than small fleets. Large companies in the real world have more resources than small companies. Large companies have massive buildings, private jets, all sorts of things that small companies don't have. It's simply a question of scale and manpower.
If it costs three hundred thousand tons of tritanium to build the smallest possible starbase, it costs three hundred thousand tons of tritanium. The starbase doesn't care of you're a small fleet or a large fleet. It's gonna want that three hundred thousand tons, one way or another. More people contributing tritanium will obviously get to that total faster than less.
Except that the Starbase isn't real and the price is decided by Cryptic not actual scarcity.
Sorry but I don't agree. I have a small fleet and don't want any handouts or subsidies. SO please DONT speak for the rest of us. Enjoy the ride and WHY did you make a fleet if you don't want to go through the hassle. There's no EASY BUTTON and if you think its too much work...well take a break and let others build it. Leadership reflects a lot into how a small fleet makes it or break it. Like anything else if you are not successful don't blame it on others or DEVs and ask for a handout. This is not how the real world should work.
I do agree with the monotony and grinding of the game but so it is for any other MMO. Nobody is putting a gun or forcing you....my advice is let others help out and if you don't see it grow...then join or merge with other fleets who can. How do you think Large fleets got were they are? They all have to start from somewhere. If you are not a good leader let others try it. Not many are born to lead. :cool:
Ugh. I'll try to let the cliches ("No one is putting a gun to your head" especially) go for this one and focus on the content.
If you're not alting for some huge fleet and really do enjoy long slow grinds, that's great. Thing is, you're not speaking for the other guy, nor is your "I struggle and love it!" thing going to be of any use to other fleets that don't share your position. Some people enjoy being paddled for sensual gratification, but only a very selfish person would assume that everyone wants the same paddling.
I speak from the point of view of being a member of a rather large fleet that's almost completely done with its starbase.
So what's your point?
Just speaking my mind. I respect your opinion and to each its own. All I can say is that leadership is not for everyone. I will end with that point. Easy and simple
You condemn me for "speaking for small fleets" and yet I don't recall YOU being the voice of small fleets either. Nothing but hypocritical hooplah.
And point out where I said I wanted handouts? Go on, point it out! :mad: Guess what? I DIDN'T!
All I wanted is small fleets to be balanced! Why should we put in the same amount of work Large Fleets do! Small fleets have to pay more than those in large fleets, and at the same time large fleets are in desperate need for fleet credits, which means they don't have enough of a workload. AND THAT WAS MY POINT!
Dude take a CHILL pill!!!
I don't speak for you as you shouldn't speak for me...and good luck with that attitude.
Yes, I will have an attitude when you put words in my mouth and tell me "you don't speak for me" and then go around acting like you are the spokesman instead. Then on top of it, you insult my fleet. :rolleyes:
Always have to get the last word...one of those...not insulting anyone so please don't Troll ...but sorry if you have a BAD ATTITUDE good luck with that :eek:
Actually you don't "have" to grind for any of that. The game is completely playable without.
You won't have "the best" ships or items, but then they aren't meant to be just handed out for everyone.
Why not? You expect the same benefits without the same total player effort put in?
? Per player, sure. Total, no.
Basically you want to keep a small fleet but have the benefits of being a large one. How is that now having it handed to you?
They have say 50 players that work to achieve a goal.
Why should that goal be easier just because you have fewer people? How isn't that a free ride for the discounted portion?
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
And 2, there has to be some way to make this game cater for ALL fleets and not just the LARGE.
Thing is, we grind for every known currency in game, and it is ALL tied to one thing, REAL money. So, they are making it either grind or pay dollars. Thats fine, if you have plenty of dollars to throw away. But, if you want yeah grind dill and trade it for zen. Either way, this game is turning into a grindfest game.
Since when does a game HAVE to be a grind like this?
Also, take a look around, most people are not liking it because they have to grind for months just to get something so small.
Some of you probably dont realise it yet, i dont know. But they are making it A LOT harder to get anywhere. E;g, I done a mission in the sphere the other night, it took about half hour to an hour to complete and all i got was a tight 24 fleet marks. That was WITH using the fleet mark bonus pool.
PWE ARE tight.
I mean, what is the purpose of nerfing the slipstream drive when entering a new sector? It defeats the purpose of having a advanced slipstream drive now because you dont get to use the full potential. If that isn't being tight, then what is?
That is pointed at the naysayers, not DStahl or Cryptic/Pwe
well the way I look at it is having got lifetime sub myself if i play for the rest of my life hopefully 40-50 years at a minimum of 3 hours a day that will be from 43680 to 54600 hours of play time and I prey the game stays on line that long I might just be at a point that I would say I have got my moneys worth and with a bit of luck they will let us play sto in the afterlife so I can still keep playing for all eternity.
I love the state that the game is at now even with the few very minor bugs and I hope they keep on adding the kind of updates and special events they have been coming up with so far.
legacy was awesome as was dyson and the summer and winter events are a nice break away from the norm.
if they keep on doing what they are doing I will never leave, I am a true star trek fan and love the way they have captured the trek feeling within the game, the excitement I get from fighting the borg, voth, breen or snowmen is greater then I have got from playing any other computer game and I have played more computer games then I care to remember from the time I got my very first computer the ZX81 way back in 1981 all the way up to my latest high end pc WOW! that's over 30 years of playing computer games time sure does go quick.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
How do you know they didn't?
The Fleet Invites system allows a large fleet to invite members of a small fleet into their facilities and to buy Fleet gear (less starships). Some fleets offer this for free, others charge in EC, but frankly 20M EC is not unaffordable for a focussed player. My Fed toon is a member of a medium-sized fleet, to which I am a middling contributor, but that was how I got access to T5 gear ahead of the grind. The system is so equitable that it rewards small fleet players for contributing to their fleets (with marks and provisioning that they can freely spend in a larger fleet's stores) and protects the larger fleets by using the invited player's provisioning. Frankly, the system is so amicable that I keep waiting for Cryptic to pull it., and is several orders of magnitude more equitable than anything proposed in these threads.
The *only* thing that doesn't work for is starships, but even then a simple invite / reinvite will do the trick and is not beyond the wit of man (again, the reason I can fly a Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier without my own fleet having a T5 shipyard).
You said it yourself, the same benefits.
Then why do small fleet players have to work harder grinding away and even forced to buy Dilithium with their real-world savings to earn those same benefits? Sure doesn't sound fair in that respect, now does it? I mean how many people in large fleets have to grind away to earn Fleet Marks? Or Dilithium? Or even chip way at their EC and Fleet Mark savings?
Answer is........they (you) don't.
By your own logic, if the benefits are the same and the investment is the same, then so should the player's time.
Wrong, the best places is on Defera doing Hards or in a group farming NWS.
Fracture into smaller groups and 1-player fleets? Don't you mean how it was prior to the introduction of the Starbase system? :rolleyes:
Come now, lets be realistic, even if they did scale according to fleet size, it still take months or years for that 1-person to get to Tier 5. So why is it so devastating if someone should do that?
Realistically, STO doesn't need large fleets, because the game itself doesn't demand it. This isn't like Fantasy MMOs where large fleets are needed to do dungeon raids, or in some MMOs where numbers are power (especially with PvP). STO is best run with small fleets of friends.
If that's so, now you know WHY they were introduced. If they had just wanted to sell off more dilithium items, they could have done that through the existing vendors. Instead, they introduced something that is clearly structured to motivate players to work together in groups.
I just explained why; it would diminish the enjoyment of the players.
Well clearly, the presence of the fleet system now means that it does demand it. QED.
I agree. If this game was anything like EVE Online, then yeah, you would need a large a fleet as the content is there to support it.
STO need large fleets? i dont think so. I don't PvP at all. I have once or twice to try it, and it didnt appeal to me. I've always been a more PvE and a bit of a lone gunner. Specially with leechers in this game. I don't play with leechers just so they get loot for doin sweet fa. Soon as i spot one, i quit the mission, penalty or no penalty.
But yeah, i think the fleet system could do with......an overhaul
used to sell off a lot of borg mk x stuff for 80k a pop, no idea how much one could make by applying themselves at the time doing infected or cure regularly since QS is a real nasty one to get past with the two gates. and the game was more basic which made it more fun to play. problem with creating lots of additional content or better tech is that it becomes far more complicated to use and maintain. i hate technology.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Well, no.
What do large (or more accurately, advanced) fleets have that smaller (less advanced) ones don't? Better ships, gear and BOffs. Of these, only the consoles have no non-fleet equivalent quality items - otherwise you can get lockbox, lobi or rep gear of a similar standard.
Now, you can gear a character or ship to complete *any* PVE content in STO comfortably with only C-store and exchange gear. The queues mean that you don't need fleetmates to access group based missions either. So, high-end PVP aside, there is nothing in the fleet system that anyone "needs" to play the game. This, I believe, was azurianstar's point.
Cryptic's designers are not shutting anyone out from any aspect of gameplay, except perhaps PVP. Really it's quite an equitable position.