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Romulans are too nice and goodie two shoes
smokinssoulmate
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I wanted to discus the initial impression of the Romulan faction.
I came back to the game after a long break. The whole feel of the faction is it's too goodie two shoes. There is no Reactions to our actions in the game. I mean for a example I had hoped that down the line of the story line, we would get a choice to make. I read up and saw no one can play for the Tal shiar although it would be nice to be the bad guys. As Romulan should be.
However, in the Indoctrination mission I did every choice bad without question, hoping that by doing so. That my choices would have consequences, everything just got put under the carpet. The whole feeling of the faction is just off to me, The whole Julan tru bunch of hippies are just not in character with how they were portrayed in the reunification episodes.
It would be nice if the Storyline /writers didn't forces us to be so nice when or allow us the choices to stab the Feds and or Klingons and or Republic in the back for our own personal gain.
In True Romulan tradition
I came back to the game after a long break. The whole feel of the faction is it's too goodie two shoes. There is no Reactions to our actions in the game. I mean for a example I had hoped that down the line of the story line, we would get a choice to make. I read up and saw no one can play for the Tal shiar although it would be nice to be the bad guys. As Romulan should be.
However, in the Indoctrination mission I did every choice bad without question, hoping that by doing so. That my choices would have consequences, everything just got put under the carpet. The whole feeling of the faction is just off to me, The whole Julan tru bunch of hippies are just not in character with how they were portrayed in the reunification episodes.
It would be nice if the Storyline /writers didn't forces us to be so nice when or allow us the choices to stab the Feds and or Klingons and or Republic in the back for our own personal gain.
In True Romulan tradition
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Short 10 sec trailer for Cube 571
The one good thing about being Borg you never need tech-support
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Post edited by smokinssoulmate on
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As for adding more 'mini factions' like a Tal Shiar or Star Empire faction, well that could have a place especially if the Fed vs KDF war ended (See Ending Fed KDF War thread) providing another option for PvP with meaning, but again nothing that's going to happen, certainly not in the near term.
But even then, they were shown as shady themselves, as even the military found them ruthless and not really helping the Empire. It was pretty much hinted they already were power hungry back then.
I would have wanted the RSE of the show myself, but we can't. The RRW is the next best thing. They just need to work on it so it feel a 3rd faction and not a micro faction. But we all know it won't happen until at least 3years, if we look to the other faction (IE KDF).
Also what is the point for Security and station Security if you can not steal case of Romulan Ale from DS9 or smuggle in Cubans cigars into Star fleet Academy.
Short 10 sec trailer for Cube 571
The one good thing about being Borg you never need tech-support
Before you post in the STO tech support forum
You...you..... MONSTER!!!!! killing a poor defenceless bunny :eek:
you kidding, I roasted it and had bunny for dinner.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Now, let's talk about cruelty
:eek: daaaamn....
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Why are there so many players who seem to overlook that even in TNG and later series, the PEOPLE of the Romulan Star Empire LOATHED AND FEARED the Tal'Shiar?
Why are there so many players who seem to believe that any person from any given group (cultural, ethnic, religious, or whatever) must be exactly like the loudest and most publicized members of that group, or that one sub-group within a larger group is representative of the entire group?
For the first question, I'm going to go with youth as the most likely answer; many players are not old enough to remember TOS except as something they may have watched later, after being exposed to TNG or other later Star Trek series/movies.
For the second, I'm inclined to suggest that bias in favor of one position blinds to the possibility of paying attention to facts which contradict that position.
For the third, I'm going go go with the unfortunate truth that prejudice is still alive, and that people prefer simplistic understandings to the complexity of reality.
And for both the second and third, I'm going to assert (as I have done many times and in many contexts in the past) that Logic (the real-world academic discipline, not the Vulcan mystical and anti-emotional philosophy) should be a required course at the secondary school level (which would result in oh-so-many improvements in oh-so-many aspects of life, both individual and social). It is a discipline, and like any discipline, must be studied and practiced.
Sounds to me like you haven't done enough of the Romulan missions to see how you deal with Hakeev once and for all.
I guess the devs might as well give the players what they want and let everyone wear long, black military coats and hats with sharp angles adorned with skulls and Nordic runes. Because that's pretty much what they want when they want to be the Tal'Shiar.
But yeah, all too easily do people forget that the average Romulan in the TV shows was oppressed by the government.
Au Contrare. I've done them all on three characters from tribble to holodeck.. Hakeev is a laughable buffoon ( but he has nice toys ).Besides, its not Hakeev I want. i want that half breed blonde b***h that thinks she desrves to be our sovereign.. But nooooo.. We dont get the option of even thinking that. it's yes Master FDE guy, yes master KDF guy.. Some days i wish i could thaleron the whole lot of em.. Since romulans never really existed, i would just like her to be more human and have more human foibles..
Actually (and oddly enough ) although the Romulans were "originally' patterned ( loosely ) off the Chinese Communists, the Tal Shiar were more like the KGB than the Waffen SS, and just as frightening..
That's beside the point. They regularly disappeared people and were so loathsome that the RSE's military absolutely hated them.
Oh i fully agree, but, going by the Cryptic mythos, the RSE IS the Tal Shiar.. No of course i dont agree with that either, but again, what choice have we got?? Naturally i would prefer to see Romulans portrayed as they originally were portrayed, as opposed to the near flower power milk toast wanna be hippies we now have.. To me, the only thing in the game worse than the portrayal of the romulans, are the Defari, and i despise them..
But they're not hippies. Hippies don't soar around space in death machines that can decimate an entire planet. I seem to recall my Romulan has reduced plenty an enemy into their constituent molecules in a ball of blazing plasma.
Hmm, Thalaron roasted bunny
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
The Waffen SS were a fighting military force. They are often confused with the Algemeine SS, which were the military guards at the death camps.
Neither is particularly comparable to the Tal'Shiar, which are not military at all.
The Tal'Shiar are more akin to the Geheim Staats Polizei (commonly called "Gestapo"), a secret state police force. One can argue they may have more in common with the NKVD or KGB (or the "Red" Chinese "Ministry of Public Security" or "Ministry of State Security") than the Gestapo, but the point is the same; all were (or are) civilian secret police forces.
If you are attempting to argue a distinction based on fascist vs. communist, neither the USSR nor "Red" China were/are communist, but rather, state capitalist (the state replaces the landlord, factory owner, merchant, etc; in "Communism," everything is held collectively, and, as a type of Socialism, the means of production are controlled by producers rather than useless bloated leeches who profit at everyone else's expense, getting rich off the work of others who are treated as little more than serfs), which is essentially the same as fascism. While the rhetoric may differ, the policies (social, political, and economic) are, for all practical purposes, identical.
It was the TNG series that is mostly responsible for the backstabbing villain reputation of the Romulans.
Besides, the Romulans went through some very hard times and that is probably enough for a lot of them to change their ways.
That's your character's personal choice (to the extent that gameplay forces it to be your character's choice). D'Tan doesnt want you killing anybody, especially other Romulans, which probably extends to the Tal Shiar (and to to the extent that it is a ideological stance it probably even extends to Hakeev). D'Tan and his movement are pacifistic, he's just letting you live there remember, hell he didnt even give you any rep boost for finding the planet.
The long-term problem is that a half-faction like this cuts the legs out from under the game's future. N-way PVP, true multifaction diplomacy, etc., cannot happen with this arrangement. The game cannot grow much beyond its red-vs-blue power struggle which is only barely hanging on anyway.
Comment of the day.
Anyway, if I wanted to play the TNG-era's greatest hits, I'd do the Klingon War missions again.
While true on paper, there was much in the way of "cross membership" in the two branches of the SS. For example, concentration camp duty rotations were mandatory in some Waffen SS units. And others were formed from the concentration camp directorate (such as the early SS regiments that took place in the Polish campaign, many of which would go on to for the infamous 3rd SS Division "Totenkopf" under the guidance of Theodor Eicke).
The Tal'Shiar, while not part of the Star Navy's chain of command, field their own military forces. Much like the NKVD and SS did in the 1930s and 1940s.
National Socialism wasn't truly a fascist ideology in the purest sense. That's a common misconception. It shared some of the principles of fascism. But it didn't embrace the fascist stance that the ideology was a "third position" between social conservatism and socialist state collectivism. The National Socialists under Hitler went out of their way to curry favor with the conservative elements in German society, such as the old Prussian traditionalists that ran the military establishment, the Junkers class, and the industrialists.
I agree that the U.S.S.R. and PRC were/are not "pure" communist societies as envisioned by Marx. However, they were "functional" communist states, that never advanced beyond the "dictatorship of the proletariat" phase when it was realized that Marx's ideals were just that. Ideals. Realistically, like any other ideal of utopia, they were a pipe dream that would not work. So a dictatorial state corporatist structure remained the order of the day. Unfortunately, the socialist system isn't all it's cracked up to be either. The U.S.S.R. never had the chance to really learn that lesson. The Chinese, on the other hand, have. And are embracing a free market economy out of necessity, since a capitalist system run by "leeches" as you put it, has proven to be the only viable economic system in the history of civilization. Without a viable (read:capitalist) economic system, you cannot become a serious player on the world power stage in the 21st Century.
As for the Romulan Star Empire, I would not characterize it as a fascist state. More like a curious mix of honor-oriented timocracy, classical oligarchy, Chinese legalism, and constitutional monarchy (the Empress is head of state and the Praetor head of government, much like the modern relationship between the Crown and Prime Minister in the modern day United Kingdom). The Tal'Shiar may come across as a pack of fascist thugs. But name one secret police force, both in fiction and real life, that doesn't act in such a manner.
Oh, i'm not about to argue or counter your knowledge whatsoever. Indeed, im delighted to see someone with such depth. However, the original physical description above, spoke of long black military trench coats, and i believe flashing double lighting patches on the collars.. That to me specifically describes one very specific organization. My apologies if my assessment was inaccurate..
No, rather than see anything such as you described, I would want the Romulans portrayed specifically as they are in the original storyline. Ruthless isolationists who simply wanted to be left alone, but weren't afraid to fight if the fight was brought to them. If that includes living under the thumb of the Tal Shiar, then so be it. Its not like we dont live under the thumbs of the federation or the KDF anyway, and at least the tal Shiar are romulan.
By the way. You play a good game of chess..
Horse pucky.
Go back and watch the TOS episodes which featured Rihannsu. Balance of Terror and The Enterprise Incident. These people are not Tal Shiar. Either of the Romulan commanders portrayed there would have nothing at all to do with an organization like the Tal Shiar. Indeed, the only ones acting despicably underhanded in both episodes were the members of Starfleet.
Consider Senator Vreenak from DS9. Of 'It's a Faake!' fame. Once again, it was the Feds acting exactly as everyone thinks the Tal Shiar ought to. And Benjamin Sisko looked right into the camera and stated he could live with however many Romulan deaths it would take to prevent the Federation from falling to to the Dominion.
From my viewpoint, STO players can already play as the Tal Shiar. Except they have to wear Starfleet uniforms. So why do we need another one?
"Buh...buh...buh! I wanna play STO as a Real Bad Guy!" Every time you warp out from ESD, you already are.
Better hurry along now or you'll miss that Section 31 briefing scheduled to begin in five minutes. And don't bother asking how I know about it. Your security clearance isn't authorized for that level, Vice Admiral. I'm sure this will be yet another mission where you get to pull the wings off butterflies or make scary faces at Klingon children to save the Federation from a fate worse than death or something like that. And if you pull off enough wings or the faces are scary enough, pwe/cryptic will reward you with more shinies! And a cookie! Yay for the bestest Bad Guys evah - Starfleet!
I want to play RSE, not one of Hakeev's lackeys. If anything, RSE would be fighting Hakeev's group as the enemy within
oh soo very much this ^^^^^
system Lord Baal is dead
For every player that wants to be a Tal'shiar operative, or RSE officer, you'll have one that wants to explore the Romulan Republic storyline, be friends and allies with the other two major powers, reunification and all that jazz, going to the point of the Dominion War, and working well together between all 3 major factions, cause seriously who wasn't cheering that first time that the Romulan fleet showed up in DS9 to back up Starfleet and the KDF, I sure was.
You want your actions to matter, to not have such a "cookie cutter" outcome, that takes time, and thus money, which means Legacy of Romulus would have been out much, much later, because instead of 1 Romulan story, you'd have to craft 3, (T'S, RSE, RR) and there must be one or more divergent points where you could decide to join a certain sub-faction, or switch to an other one.
So you are crafting separate missions, and outcomes for each of the 3 subfactions, that's a lot of time, money, art assets, voice acting, etc.
It quickly becomes too expensive.
You want a SWTOR like effect, but most people will tell you, SWTOR doesn't really work as an MMO, it's often mentioned as "the best single player experience in an MMO", many people, including me, play it for the class story quests, which can be completed completely solo, why, because they are like Bioware's other award winning single player RPG's, like Mass Effect and Dragon Age.
I personally don't bother with most of the multiplayer dungeons in that game, because everyone skips trough the cutscenes, and is on your case if you don't do it as well.
And these potential subfactions don't help the STO playerbase work together, because while you can write in reason for the Federation and the Empire to work together for the greater good of the quadrant, and eventually end this war, it becomes far harder to give reason why a Tal'shiar captain would tolerate a Romulan Republic captain, a government they've basically sworn to destroy, why would these two work together in an STF? the Tal'shair have the Iconians to back them up right, and the Romulan Republic Starfleet or the KDF depending on the players choice.
There is one thing people have to realize in MMO's, gameplay is king and will always, ALWAYS, come before story, come before the desires of players, because the game has to be fun for most of us, not for a few of us.
If you let players design the game, the game will be ruined, because it becomes a mess of individual desires, and poor compromises, with the loudest and most persistent voices winning out.