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Romulans are too nice and goodie two shoes

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  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I think it's interesting that you get a strong hint of Romulans asserting themselves in "Sphere of Influence".

    It's clear they see the Iconian Gateways as being important to the Republic, and they're determined to move forward over the objections of their allies.

    Watch the cutscene where Researcher Adranna tells Captain Shon that the Federation had better not decide for themselves to destroy the Gateway or else. And how fast the Klingon representative supported her.

    (After all, the Gateway isn't right next door to the Empire...)

    The Federation had no choice but to back down, despite the Omega.

    So, the Romulan player may be pro-Federation or pro-Empire in their outlook but it's very clear that the Republic itself is its own beast in the STO storyline, with its own agenda. It could foreshadow future plots where the Republic plays one against the other and where the Republic's strong drive to rebuild Romulan power and influence creates unintended problems for everybody.
    My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here
    Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
  • smokinssoulmatesmokinssoulmate Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Since Cryptic made the game, Why they could not apply what they did with City of Heros/villians to STO. There is a clear set of factions or other side to this game that could be exploited to the players that are currently off limits.

    Klingon side - Duras faction
    Federation - (corrupt federation officers /admirals) to easy to come.
    Romulan - Empress Sela Tal Shiar

    Perhaps this is basically a whole new game like COV was. oh well.
  • royalsovereignroyalsovereign Member Posts: 1,344 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    sorceror01 wrote: »
    Sounds to me like you haven't done enough of the Romulan missions to see how you deal with Hakeev once and for all.
    I just replayed this a night or two ago (loving the FE replay event, thanks Devs!) and unfortunately I just stood there and let the Reman guy take Hakeev out. Seems like I do remember a choice in there before - has that part been changed?
    Hippies don't soar around space in death machines that can decimate an entire planet. I seem to recall my Romulan has reduced plenty an enemy into their constituent molecules in a ball of blazing plasma.
    I got a nice satisfying feeling replaying the wormhole episode where the Ferengi trader tries to backstab you and Eraun asks you to dispose of her. My Feddie was all conflicted and I went thru all the dialogue options. But my Rihanha? Good riddance. I like to imagine that I locked weapons and pressed the button myself with a smile on my face. }:>
    "You Iconians just hung a vacancy sign on your asses and my foot's looking for a room!"
    --Red Annorax
  • royalsovereignroyalsovereign Member Posts: 1,344 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Wait... what?

    Is this something from the Expanded Universe? Because I seem to recall Han simply being a smuggler.
    Urr, yeah. I recall something about Han being in the Correllian military, which was implied to be separate from teh Empire somehow. But that probably came from some Han Solo-starring novels I read about 30-35 years ago, so who knows.
    "You Iconians just hung a vacancy sign on your asses and my foot's looking for a room!"
    --Red Annorax
  • royalsovereignroyalsovereign Member Posts: 1,344 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Since Cryptic made the game, Why they could not apply what they did with City of Heros/villians to STO. There is a clear set of factions or other side to this game that could be exploited to the players that are currently off limits.

    Klingon side - Duras faction
    Federation - (corrupt federation officers /admirals) to easy to come.
    Romulan - Empress Sela Tal Shiar

    Perhaps this is basically a whole new game like COV was. oh well.
    Because, as cool as City of Villains was, Cryptic lost their TRIBBLE on it. You think the KDF has problems having enough players? Redside on CoX was a frickin' ghost town 99% of the time, and they spent a metric crapton of development time on it.

    Bottom line is, it can be fun to play a real 'bad guy', but most average players just aren't that interested in it, and obviously the Ferengis running PWE do not want Cryptic spending dev time and money on something that won't return a good profit.
    "You Iconians just hung a vacancy sign on your asses and my foot's looking for a room!"
    --Red Annorax
  • smokinssoulmatesmokinssoulmate Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Because, as cool as City of Villains was, Cryptic lost their TRIBBLE on it. You think the KDF has problems having enough players? Redside on CoX was a frickin' ghost town 99% of the time, and they spent a metric crapton of development time on it.

    Bottom line is, it can be fun to play a real 'bad guy', but most average players just aren't that interested in it, and obviously the Ferengis running PWE do not want Cryptic spending dev time and money on something that won't return a good profit.

    I disagree on the point of "most average players" remark, there is entire game called swotor with players interested in playing the bad guy. I would put a figure as 10% of players after the 1st month of STO came out after the free time ended went over to swotor.

    I saw and found many people that was with me here during beta and the first couple months after season 1 came out. That followed me to swotor. Because STO is "in their words" is too much of a Kinder garden game" a Tom and Jerry cartoon game, people get killed then get up brush off the dirt and carry on next episode. There is clearly a market for "playing the bad guys" and SWOTOR currently is entertaining them.

    correct me if I am wrong and I'll humbly admit it too, but it appears and seems a lot of people were expecting this game to be a lot better than it is and fulfill it's potential for being a great game. However I guess as it turned F2P or the fact they offered Life time subscriptions marked the this game's future.

    People over there absolute revolted the idea of life subs because they are under the impression that life subs = Dev's don't have faith their game lasting and I was one of those that was fighting this remark. Because I would of pay a life sub for swotor same as I did here. In hind sight though Swotor has proven that statement correct, they don't offer Life subs and only partially f2p and you still have to pay for full featured game and the game is populated and crowded and have 100s of servers. Compared to STO having what 1 server?

    I grew up wanting and praying for there to be a star trek online MMO I had waited years for this. It can and rightly so should be a LOT better than it is. It escaped the glutches of SOE (Suckers on Extasy) and had the making to be a land-mark ground breaking MMO
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I disagree on the point of "most average players" remark, there is entire game called swotor with players interested in playing the bad guy. I would put a figure as 10% of players after the 1st month of STO came out after the free time ended went over to swotor.

    .

    Did you guys use a time machine, and travel to the future because SWTOR was not even out when STO was brand new.
    GwaoHAD.png
  • smokinssoulmatesmokinssoulmate Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    Did you guys use a time machine, and travel to the future because SWTOR was not even out when STO was brand new.


    It was in Beta at the time and I was in it.
  • trek21trek21 Member Posts: 2,246 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I just replayed this a night or two ago (loving the FE replay event, thanks Devs!) and unfortunately I just stood there and let the Reman guy take Hakeev out. Seems like I do remember a choice in there before - has that part been changed
    If I recall correctly, when you're a Fed or a KDF, Obisek simply shoots Hakeev. If you're a Rom though (either faction), you'll shoot him yourself with a line and everything.

    I recall how shocked/surprised/impressed I was when that happened the first time :D Mostly impressed though, because it was fitting
    Was named Trek17.

    Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,460 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    trek21 wrote: »
    If I recall correctly, when you're a Fed or a KDF, Obisek simply shoots Hakeev. If you're a Rom though (either faction), you'll shoot him yourself with a line and everything.

    I recall how shocked/surprised/impressed I was when that happened the first time :D Mostly impressed though, because it was fitting
    Can you replay that mission as a Rom? I haven't tried that yet - but it always makes me feel warm and gooey inside when I give Hakeev a faceful of plasma... :)
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • trek21trek21 Member Posts: 2,246 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    jonsills wrote: »
    Can you replay that mission as a Rom? I haven't tried that yet - but it always makes me feel warm and gooey inside when I give Hakeev a faceful of plasma... :)
    Yeah, the Mission Replays works for that mission :) It works for all three factions, on all-but-a-few missions.

    An example of one you can't replay (in all three factions) is "Darkness Before The Dawn", because it's only really a talk-to-Obisek session.

    Same with the "Secrets of Nimbus" mission that takes you to Nimbus, talk to Horace Jones, and that's it. Only those kinds can't be replayed, and there's only a few of them overall
    Was named Trek17.

    Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    trek21 wrote: »
    If I recall correctly, when you're a Fed or a KDF, Obisek simply shoots Hakeev. If you're a Rom though (either faction), you'll shoot him yourself with a line and everything.

    I recall how shocked/surprised/impressed I was when that happened the first time :D Mostly impressed though, because it was fitting
    I just went back and replayed it, that was awesome.

    I did however notice that there were two redshirts who stand under the arch as your ship torpedos it. Surprisingly(or not) they are still standing there after the arch is reduced to rubble.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    trek21 wrote: »
    If I recall correctly, when you're a Fed or a KDF, Obisek simply shoots Hakeev. If you're a Rom though (either faction), you'll shoot him yourself with a line and everything.

    I recall how shocked/surprised/impressed I was when that happened the first time :D Mostly impressed though, because it was fitting

    Yeah, I noticed that when I played it with V'rel, my Rom Tac officer. And yes, he totally would have done that even though it might not have occurred to me as the player to do that. And if my Rom character would have balked at it, Tovan probably would have done it cheerfully despite his own moral hangups -- because he hated the Tal Shiar that much.

    Although a Klingon would've done it too, I think. It would only be out of character for a Starfleet officer.

    More evidence that we shouldn't expect Romulans to be pushovers or hippie space elves.
    My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here
    Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
  • lincolninspacelincolninspace Member Posts: 1,843 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Your Romulan character starts out as a civilian on a farming colony. To me they are space cowboys and sometimes they do a bit of cowboy diplomacy. But they were never part of the power base of the RSE. They are the little people you dont see in the shows.
    A TIME TO SEARCH: ENTER MY FOUNDRY MISSION at the RISA SYSTEM
    Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
  • twg042370twg042370 Member Posts: 2,312 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    The whole Romulan arc is a revenge story and in the end you take it. I don't know how anyone gets "goody two shoes" out of that. Because you're not impaling infants on spikes?
    <3
  • smokinssoulmatesmokinssoulmate Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    twg042370 wrote: »
    The whole Romulan arc is a revenge story and in the end you take it. I don't know how anyone gets "goody two shoes" out of that. Because you're not impaling infants on spikes?


    Because they all about the greater good and helping out Feds or KDF instead of standing out. Julan Tru hippies want to get back together with Vulans and all the reset of that happy stuff. None of that Take over the Alpha Quadrant, or taking advantage of the Klingons and Feds while their backs are turned. It is a great chance the lines to be re-drawn while they are war with each other they can go take undefended planets push the neutral zone a bit. Take of DS9 with Cadassian help perhaps who knows.

    The story is of personal revenge not faction revenge
  • danteandersendanteandersen Member Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    hiveman5 wrote: »
    Plus Cryptic would just be copying what someone else has already done, and by copyrights and trade agreements I don't think they're allowed to do that anyway, at least not the exact same system.

    I played Legacy of Romulus a few years ago, back when it was called City of Heroes: Going Rogue. Let me break it down:

    - You play a group of people who were considered evil to the core game when it first came out (Praetorians), beset by a major tragedy and loss of much of their world due to secret machinations of a group of power hungry dictators in the Praetorian Elite.

    - You had storylines specific to that "mini-faction".

    - At a certain point, your character had to choose one of the two main "factions", whether to be a hero or a villain.

    Sound familiar? Replace "Praetorians" with "Romulans", replace "Hero/Villain" with "Federation/KDF", replace "Praetorian Elite" with "Tal Shiar" and change the switchover level from level 20 out of 50 to level 10 out of 50, and you have Legacy of Romulus. Kind of makes sense since Cryptic picked up several former Paragon Studios devs who worked on Going Rogue when NC Soft shut down the development of City of Heroes over a year ago.


    -END OF LINE
  • smokinssoulmatesmokinssoulmate Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I played Legacy of Romulus a few years ago, back when it was called City of Heroes: Going Rogue. Let me break it down:

    - You play a group of people who were considered evil to the core game when it first came out (Praetorians), beset by a major tragedy and loss of much of their world due to secret machinations of a group of power hungry dictators in the Praetorian Elite.

    - You had storylines specific to that "mini-faction".

    - At a certain point, your character had to choose one of the two main "factions", whether to be a hero or a villain.

    Sound familiar? Replace "Praetorians" with "Romulans", replace "Hero/Villain" with "Federation/KDF", replace "Praetorian Elite" with "Tal Shiar" and change the switchover level from level 20 out of 50 to level 10 out of 50, and you have Legacy of Romulus. Kind of makes sense since Cryptic picked up several former Paragon Studios devs who worked on Going Rogue when NC Soft shut down the development of City of Heroes over a year ago.


    -END OF LINE


    well said...and that game is in the grave so lets kick out the old ideas that don't work. Stick with the formula that is working over in swotor and wow
  • protogothprotogoth Member Posts: 2,369 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    bluegeek wrote: »
    Yeah, I noticed that when I played it with V'rel, my Rom Tac officer. And yes, he totally would have done that even though it might not have occurred to me as the player to do that. And if my Rom character would have balked at it, Tovan probably would have done it cheerfully despite his own moral hangups -- because he hated the Tal Shiar that much.

    Although a Klingon would've done it too, I think. It would only be out of character for a Starfleet officer.

    More evidence that we shouldn't expect Romulans to be pushovers or hippie space elves.

    I for one shot the jerk (not the word I would use if not for the bridle on what words I can use here) very happily. I think I was probably as happy that he wasn't talking smack about how tough he was and then running away to let his henchmen die at my hands again as I was that I shot him.
    well said...and that game is in the grave so lets kick out the old ideas that don't work. Stick with the formula that is working over in swotor and wow

    The thing is, though, that the number of players who have actively posted in the fora about wanting to play Tal'Shiar or Sela's Sycophants are far outnumbered by those who are quite pleased to not play such a character (whether they've posted in the fora or not). I also see far more vessels in game with the R.R.W. prefix than with the I.R.W. prefix.
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Member Posts: 1,606 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    twg042370 wrote: »
    The whole Romulan arc is a revenge story and in the end you take it. I don't know how anyone gets "goody two shoes" out of that. Because you're not impaling infants on spikes?
    Because they all about the greater good and helping out Feds or KDF instead of standing out. Julan Tru hippies want to get back together with Vulans and all the reset of that happy stuff. None of that Take over the Alpha Quadrant, or taking advantage of the Klingons and Feds while their backs are turned. It is a great chance the lines to be re-drawn while they are war with each other they can go take undefended planets push the neutral zone a bit. Take of DS9 with Cadassian help perhaps who knows.

    The story is of personal revenge not faction revenge

    So, pretty much... your answer to the question is "yes?"
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,460 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Who in Arreinye wants to rejoin with the "Vulans" - or the Vulcans, for that matter? Admiral Nniol tr'Keiniadh, for one, holds that Unification would be every bit as great a mistake as going back to the bad old days of the RSE and Tal'Shiar. As he put it during a discussion (it must have only been a discussion, nobody pulled any triggers), "We've only just gotten free of Sela's and Hakeev's corruption, and now you would make us hfehan to a bunch of bloodless milksops who wouldn't know an honest lust or laugh if it bit them on their oh-so-puckered backsides?"

    You can play as a "space elf hippie" if you like, but that's just not my style...
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • atomictikiatomictiki Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Because the devs decided for you that no one wanted to play a bad guy. Thus, the Romulans have been castrated for your safety and are now a green "federation."

    Bland, boring and subservient to the Klingons and Federation.

    At least you can tag your ship as Imperial Romulan.
    Leave nerfing to the professionals.
  • smokinssoulmatesmokinssoulmate Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    So, pretty much... your answer to the question is "yes?"



    The story line is of 1 point of view for 1 person everyone that plays a character it does not make it a matter of the entire faction.

    It makes choices and actions for me I would never in million years take. The story neither makes sense in a logical aspect or even a Star trek universe. The Romulan race as a whole is out for them selves their whole tactics is cloak and dagger.

    Even the people we are playing is all wrong. These are not the people that would lure Klingons or Feds into Neutral zone to achieve their own aims.
  • undyingzeroundyingzero Member Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    The story line is of 1 point of view for 1 person everyone that plays a character it does not make it a matter of the entire faction.

    It makes choices and actions for me I would never in million years take. The story neither makes sense in a logical aspect or even a Star trek universe. The Romulan race as a whole is out for them selves their whole tactics is cloak and dagger.

    Even the people we are playing is all wrong. These are not the people that would lure Klingons or Feds into Neutral zone to achieve their own aims.
    The Romulan race as a whole is out for themselves? What? ...WHAT? Where do you get this ridiculous idea from? Do you think the entirety of Romulans to be the Tal'Shiar or the Romulan military? An ENTIRE society that's about backstabbing one another and everyone else is just ridiculous.

    That last sentence in your post: what do you think D'Tan is doing by making you ally with either the Federation or the Klingonese? He did that so that the Romulan Republic could grow so that they can achieve their own aims. The alliance seems shaky at best to me, and the Romulans wouldn't feel bad at this point to back down if either galactic powerhouse did something stupid: see Shon's remark about blowing the gate and how he got quickly shot down via warning of the alliance being broken.

    I think you should watch Reunification part 1 and 2 so you can see the Romulan people as they are.
  • smokinssoulmatesmokinssoulmate Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Those episodes are displaying a hand-ful of people more better described as Sunday night club. Might as well be one of the societies that is in Life of Brain. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55fqjw2J1vI) Then lets think the fact they wouldn't let the Fed's use the cloak in the alpha Quadrant but only in the Gamma Quadrant where it may benefit them, Let the Feds do the exploring and get killed and then The Romies can just go by with their own ships.

    Or erm lets see Romulans attacking the Klingons and lowering the stations shields by use of the klingons own code by the Dura faction?

    Or the fact that every encount the Enterprise was bringing Klingon bird of prey for protection from the Romies not the other way round.

    How many times has it said By Worf and anyone else that Romulan's can not be trusted,

    who was it that got Picard's DNA and used it to make a Clone.

    Who was it that had to be tricked into joining forces with the Fed's and Klingons and leave the Dominion. When Romulans were looking out for their own self and sticking with the stronger side.

    Who was it that wanted to take the Enterprise D back to Romulus to have it's Broken hull Displayed.

    Who was it that Worf hated more than anything.

    Romulans!

    Romulans have been out for them selves the day they were created and 1st written by the very 1st writer of the start trek universe.

    All those ships, all those stations, ALL THEM CREWS in the 1000's or 100.000's compared to the 20 or 40 you see in the 2 episodes just because the father of Star trek died.

    Romulans have always been out for them selves. There is more people that want the military way of life otherwise they wouldn't have ever been a minority.

    To think otherwise is just completely flawed way of thinking
  • twg042370twg042370 Member Posts: 2,312 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    The story is of personal revenge not faction revenge

    Revenge against all of that aid?

    Regardless, if I wanted to play the role of banal villain, I'd go gank people in EVE.
    <3
  • protogothprotogoth Member Posts: 2,369 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Those episodes are displaying a hand-ful of people more better described as Sunday night club. Might as well be one of the societies that is in Life of Brain. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55fqjw2J1vI) Then lets think the fact they wouldn't let the Fed's use the cloak in the alpha Quadrant but only in the Gamma Quadrant where it may benefit them, Let the Feds do the exploring and get killed and then The Romies can just go by with their own ships.

    Or erm lets see Romulans attacking the Klingons and lowering the stations shields by use of the klingons own code by the Dura faction?

    Or the fact that every encount the Enterprise was bringing Klingon bird of prey for protection from the Romies not the other way round.

    How many times has it said By Worf and anyone else that Romulan's can not be trusted,

    who was it that got Picard's DNA and used it to make a Clone.

    Who was it that had to be tricked into joining forces with the Fed's and Klingons and leave the Dominion. When Romulans were looking out for their own self and sticking with the stronger side.

    Who was it that wanted to take the Enterprise D back to Romulus to have it's Broken hull Displayed.

    Who was it that Worf hated more than anything.

    Romulans!

    Romulans have been out for them selves the day they were created and 1st written by the very 1st writer of the start trek universe.

    All those ships, all those stations, ALL THEM CREWS in the 1000's or 100.000's compared to the 20 or 40 you see in the 2 episodes just because the father of Star trek died.

    Romulans have always been out for them selves. There is more people that want the military way of life otherwise they wouldn't have ever been a minority.

    To think otherwise is just completely flawed way of thinking

    No, a flawed way of thinking is plugging one's ears and covering one's eyes when facts in contradiction of one's opinion are presented, and pretending that those facts are opinion and one's opinion is the actual fact.
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Member Posts: 1,606 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    And this was the problem with Star Trek... every race was stereotyped into collectives. Humans were explorers, Klingons were warriors, Vulcans were logical, Ferengi were greedy, and so on and ad nauseam.

    It's unfortunate that so many fans fell into the same kind of racist thought. A government as dictatorial as the Star Empire is hardly representative of the citizens it rules over. Contrast the kind of Romulan citizens we saw in "Unification" with the average rank and file military commander or Tal'Shiar agent and you'll see what I mean.

    The corrupt were in charge, now they're not.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Hmm... you should ask Hakeev how "goodie two shoes" I am. Oh wait, I executed him by shooting him in the face. Never mind....
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • royalsovereignroyalsovereign Member Posts: 1,344 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    trek21 wrote: »
    If I recall correctly, when you're a Fed or a KDF, Obisek simply shoots Hakeev. If you're a Rom though (either faction), you'll shoot him yourself with a line and everything.

    I recall how shocked/surprised/impressed I was when that happened the first time :D Mostly impressed though, because it was fitting
    Well, my Rom stood and watched Obisek do it just a couple of days ago. I was disappointed. Seems like when I played that arc on my Klink I got to do it, tho that was awhile back.
    "You Iconians just hung a vacancy sign on your asses and my foot's looking for a room!"
    --Red Annorax
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