Have to disagree completely with OP. Michael Dorn did a fine job. If I fault anything it is the mediocre writing. Nevertheless, this is still some of the best work so far in STO. Keep it coming Cryptic.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
almost all of the voice-over work on everything is painfully slow. it has to be cryptic telling them to do it that way for some reason. that's the only thing spoiling such great missions as this one.
Silly minion of Imhotep......
It makes it easier to understand, especially when there are other sounds getting in the way.
Maybe it's slow also cause of the non-native speakers listening. (Then again, I don't suppose Michael Dorn sounds anything like the Worf the German players ever heard, no matter what you do. Alarmstuffe Einz and all that... Imagine that. They have X-files fans over there who really don't know what Mulder sounds like.)
I didn't really notice anything about Worf, since I was mostly preoccupied with the environment, so I can't speak to that. I do know that I didn't like the Tasha Yar and Sela VOs. It didn't sound like the characters speaking to allies or subordinates, to me. It felt like Denise Crosby talking to fans. Especially Yar in the Azure Nebula mission. Which irritated me. Kind of patronizing at times. I shouldn't have felt like slapping Yar around, but I did.
I do suppose that happens though. It's why I don't like the idea of having any cameos if there's to be another Trek series. Cause since a lot of fans worship these actors like mad, they're kind of given license to phone their work in. Cause WHO is acting seems to become much more important than HOW WELL they're acting, and to lose a big name is a horror too gruesome to imagine to the ones in charge. They'd have to get a security guy for all future convention panels to stand by the door and make sure all the Bat'leths are properly blunted. :rolleyes:
Nope, you aren't. You are, however, once of a small(ish) group of people, who believe that nitpicking apart something that helped enrich the game overall is a good pass time.
Many think the VO work you are insulting is actually very good.
You are also part of a vocal minority, who thinks the way to feel better about this whole thing is to come into the forums and complain and insult.
Let me ask you OP. If you ever meet Michael Dorn or the Cryptic Team live at a convention are you going to tell Dorn how bad his VO performance was ?
It seems really important to you. Important enough to make a thread that insults Mister Dorn, Dan Stahl, as well as any employees involved with creating, recording, editing, etc the Voice overs. I mean, you lay into them, telling them they need to hire new people, etc.
If you ever meet any of these folks in real life, will you mention this, or will you just shake their hand and say "thanks for a cool game" or whatever? IS your 'rage' simply anonymity fueled internet toughness, or is this really something you care so much about?
Michael Dorn was pretty much phoning it in during the later seasons of DS9. You could tell he was just going through the motions by then. He sounds exactly the same here, which is consistent.
Here is my guess I know it might not seem very obvious but what did Worf had in the show that he might not have now?
The fake teeth that they had him use.:eek: To me he dose sound kind of diff but I did like it and I am glad they had him do the lines. Also can't wait for the rest of the VO he did!
As others did say I believe it to be a problem more of production and writing than it is of the actor. I am currently about to finish my first run through DS9 so I had a direct point of comparison fresh on my mind and at least to me he did sound like Worf in the game, yet without context. It was good at first, but as the tension did rise and the stakes grew higher his voice acting did not follow so it was kind of 'miss' for me, kind of... gee, if he doesn't care why should I? That's however not his fault as much as a fault of the director and team, and of the writing as well. Some of those lines are awkward. No, no. Scratch that. Some of those lines are BAD, so I believe he does deserve respect for not making fun of the script itself in the same way I can't really shake off the feeling Denise Crosby did at times.
To me yes it could have been better, but overall both did a good job and I will always enjoy a VO from the original actor/actress over someone else's. Now the bad part I thought was it did seem to be more of a problem of script reading versus memorized scripts like in a movie or TV series. That and the fact that the recording seems to always be in a small echo filled room made of concrete or metal, I really wish they would sound deaden the recording room. Overall on a scale of 1-10, 1 being the lowest and 10 being the highest I would rate both of their performances a 8.5-9. The only reason a 10 was not awarded is do to the poor sound recording quality and the fact it sounded like they were reading off a teleprompter.
You are correct. An actual critique is NOT an insult, but what the OP did was not actually a critique. It is a number of insulting statements. which directly or indirectly insult ; Michael Dorn, Denise Crosby, Dan Stahl, Cryptic's Sound Director, the other voice actors, and anyone involved with the process of getting the VO into the game.
Do Cryptic employees not have the guts to tell these actors how mundane their VO work sounds?
And as is my favorite pasttime, Im calling out the Executive Producer yet again on this failing. Dan, hire someone who actually knows how to direct voiceover talent.
Some of the auxillary characters know how to act their lines, but most dont.
None of the things I highlight from his OP have any measure of critical assessment. They are simply judgemental statements, or rhetorical questions meant to belittle someone elses work with no degree of actual critical review. This is not critique. This is childish attack behavior.
It's not about actually critiquing the work discussed, it's simply about bad mouthing it, and seeking others of similar mindset to bash something.
He is a professional actor who has been working steadily for the past decade. Getting into character shouldn't difficult. It's not like he retired ten years ago and is out of practice.
Well, the bulk of his voiceover work has been with voice directors like Andrea Romano or producers like Seth McFarlane and the process is different.
For bigger parts, you're looking at table reads, maybe some dialogue input. But even without that, the better voice gigs, even if they can't assemble a whole cast, try to get two to three people to play off of.
I gather Cryptic records lines one at a time.
Beyond that, as an actor, I have some issues with the writing. It tends to come off like narrating in STO, STO has a content team that excels at research and does its job at plotting but I think dialogue is off kilter and if dialogue is off kilter then it impacts performance. We had Worf doing technobabble, which many Trek actors are known to hate.
Get some writer interviews with TV Trek writers and listen to how they talk about writing Worf, what they love doing with him. A running theme is that Worf is funny. Heck, look at him in the TNG films. "Computer, retract plank." "She's a tough little ship" reaction shot. "Assimilate this." "Romulan Ale should be illegal." "Is that a pimple?" He's not wacky but he is funny. Every classic Worf scene I can think of practically has some comedy in it. Or sadness. Or anger. So there's a lot of stuff left on the table here and I think it shows in the performance because he was called upon to narrate more than act.
I think he sounded like himself and wasn't bad. But I can see it being a bit off.
I still think for the narration stuff, Frakes is one of your best bets. The guy did infomercials as Riker and never broke character. But even then, you need to get character animators to do that grin of his and work some jokes in or let him improvise a few.
Overall, I think the aspect of Trek STO misses most is the humor and range. We have unemotional characters giving unemotional readings from the soon to be gone tutorial EMH to Spock (though Nimoy does get pathos in there) to Tasha to Worf.
Every iteration of Trek had a few wiseacres like McCoy or Riker or O'Brien/Bashir or the Doctor or Trip. And would mine comedy in Picard or Worf or Spock's discomfort.
i honestly don't get why people are even criticizing dorn, he sounded exactly like worf, people are nitpicking for sake of nitpicking, crosby on the other hand was awful as tasha and felt forced(althrough she is better when voicing sela).
only thing that bothers me how decent VO like dorn gets thrown together with those awful random NPC voices, it feels really out of place.
1: That was a very opinionated OP. Sounding 'bad' is an opinion, not fact. I thought Word sounded good. He's Worf, after all.
2: Dorn is a decade older than when he last did Worf. I imagine it's hard for him to get back into the Worf role, especially since he's older.
Point 1: You contradict yourself within the same statement. "Sounding bad is an opinion", so too is "Sounding good". To me, I couldn't really care which. Hearing the real actor voicing the character was good enough for me, even if it did sound very "scripted".
Point 2: Michael Dorn's interview at startrek.com seem to contradict your assumption that his performance as Worf in STO versus Worf in TNG/DS9 is different due to age.
Both Dorn and Crosby did very well with their voice over work in the game. They deserve both praise and thanks for bringing their iconic characters to life in our little corner of Trekdom.
Honestly, I liked the majority of the voice work. It sounds a lot like a radio play and that works for me. It's hard to write/act really fluid dialog when you don't know the exact order and timing the lines will play in.
And yeah, I kept comparing Worf to Coldstone. Honestly, this probably sounded better than his work as Coldstone. In case you're wondering a LOT of the voices in Gargoyles were provided by actors who worked in Star Trek at some point.
From skimming dev blogs I get the impression that the vo's were in fact "phoned in". I don't believe that they ever actually went to Cryptic's office and recorded there. I also get the distinct impression that Dorn was not happy with the direction the writers were taking his character in, and if you're not happy with the direction it is hard to have the passion that really made his character good in the tv series.
Speaking as someone with some professional experience in the field, I think that it comes down to an issue with time.
I'm positive that both these fine actors time is expensive.
Thus there isn't always time to do as many takes, to try out so many variations.
In short, there isn't always time for an actor to really find the rhythm of the piece.
I think it's fair to say that Mr Dorn's work here has been somewhat more succesful overall than Ms Crosbys
There's two reasons for that.
One, Ms Crosby went first. And we have to be fair to Cryptic, directing voice talent isn't easy. I think there's a learning curve and they're on it.
Secondly, Ms Crosby had much less expositional stuff. Way more little lines.
Speeches are easier than little lines. You have time to get into it.
Making the single line 'Watch Out!' work properly is not as easy as a two paragraph speech about safety concerns.
I'm just glad that both of these actors have given their work to STO. When Worf says, its been an honour to fight beside you.....well, thats a big deal to a lifelong trekkie.
And Sela had some chilling stuff to say in the Romulan arc.
I honestly don't think that blaming the actors for this is correct. I think they did well with what they were given, and moved on from there.
But... there's always a bit, the key is with what they were given. Look at Worf when you're in the three door room "I think there is something beyond this door".
No $4!7. Really? There's something beyond a door? I'd never have guessed.
Or the classic Tasha Yar whine fest while you're working your way towards the Enterprise-C down the catwalk.
Now if you're an actor, how exactly do you make that work? You can try all you want to make it work, but just sometimes all the acting talent in the world isn't going to make a line like "There's something beyond this door" seem stellar, especially if they're not given the Direction of what exactly is supposed to be beyond the door.
So I'm chalking it up to a lack of proper direction with a lack of stellar writing. Not saying that the writing is BAD... just when you do Voice Over work with actors that are used to being given scripts written by highly paid professionals, it can be a bit difficult.
STO, yes, that'll be my home, my... Paradise. I shall find there all the souls that I love: ... And when I arrive, they will question my worthiness. "What the devil is *he* doing there among us?" Philosopher, scientist, poet, musician, duellist! Here lies ...
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I felt sorta the same way in some places where the cadence of the character didn't align with what we know... but there were other times when it felt almost spot on, usually during the times where there was tension in his voice acting.
Video game voice acting is quite different from what I hear from other forms of voice acting in that it's recorded pretty much with the actor by themselves in a booth, not much direction, no real context for things... they have to make up their tone on the spot. It's easy for us to complain cuz we can play the game and see the flow... but those guys are literally reading lines not knowing what is happening. And they are not always read in the order of the events in the game.
Michael Dorn did fine, but it was weird in places yes.
"I never get tired of watching thalaron weapons detonate"
I believe that is the line, it actually gave me a near chill when I heard it the first time. She sounded downright diabolical.
She added real tension to the scene.
Lets compare STO to the original KOTOR, which even had Ethan Philips (Neelix) as a Jedi knight. There was tons of VO work and it made it feel cinematic, but a lot of it was gibberish, alien languages and many of the characters were mopey dull and depressing. I would love more VO work in STO!
A TIME TO SEARCH: ENTER MY FOUNDRY MISSION at the RISA SYSTEM Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
Personal opinion: At the start, he seemed a little stilted. But as the story progressed, he seemed to get into the flow. Overall, I think Michael Dorn did a fine job and look forward to hearing more Mr. Worf in-game.
Both Michael Dorn and Denise Crosby were absolutely brilliant in their voiceovers on sto.
People should be grateful they are doing this,to add to the trek feel about it.
I hope we will see more startrek characters do voiceovers in future.
Comments
- Judge Aaron Satie
It makes it easier to understand, especially when there are other sounds getting in the way.
My character Tsin'xing
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I didn't really notice anything about Worf, since I was mostly preoccupied with the environment, so I can't speak to that. I do know that I didn't like the Tasha Yar and Sela VOs. It didn't sound like the characters speaking to allies or subordinates, to me. It felt like Denise Crosby talking to fans. Especially Yar in the Azure Nebula mission. Which irritated me. Kind of patronizing at times. I shouldn't have felt like slapping Yar around, but I did.
I do suppose that happens though. It's why I don't like the idea of having any cameos if there's to be another Trek series. Cause since a lot of fans worship these actors like mad, they're kind of given license to phone their work in. Cause WHO is acting seems to become much more important than HOW WELL they're acting, and to lose a big name is a horror too gruesome to imagine to the ones in charge. They'd have to get a security guy for all future convention panels to stand by the door and make sure all the Bat'leths are properly blunted. :rolleyes:
And wear helmets.
"Am I the only one ..."
Nope, you aren't. You are, however, once of a small(ish) group of people, who believe that nitpicking apart something that helped enrich the game overall is a good pass time.
Many think the VO work you are insulting is actually very good.
You are also part of a vocal minority, who thinks the way to feel better about this whole thing is to come into the forums and complain and insult.
Let me ask you OP. If you ever meet Michael Dorn or the Cryptic Team live at a convention are you going to tell Dorn how bad his VO performance was ?
It seems really important to you. Important enough to make a thread that insults Mister Dorn, Dan Stahl, as well as any employees involved with creating, recording, editing, etc the Voice overs. I mean, you lay into them, telling them they need to hire new people, etc.
If you ever meet any of these folks in real life, will you mention this, or will you just shake their hand and say "thanks for a cool game" or whatever? IS your 'rage' simply anonymity fueled internet toughness, or is this really something you care so much about?
The fake teeth that they had him use.:eek: To me he dose sound kind of diff but I did like it and I am glad they had him do the lines. Also can't wait for the rest of the VO he did!
ANCIENT BEINGS!
but it can be beter
i always look for a mmorpg with alot of voice acting it makes the game more alive
and SWTOR rely done it amazing in my few
if you ever try that
but am happy STO takes the next step to it
but it takes alot of time and mony to make a mmorpg full with voice actors
this 1 btw is my favorite
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Kr-P-nylHk
Steve blum he have a great voice
wil be good for the klingons
A critique is not an insult.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
My character Tsin'xing
You are correct. An actual critique is NOT an insult, but what the OP did was not actually a critique. It is a number of insulting statements. which directly or indirectly insult ; Michael Dorn, Denise Crosby, Dan Stahl, Cryptic's Sound Director, the other voice actors, and anyone involved with the process of getting the VO into the game.
None of the things I highlight from his OP have any measure of critical assessment. They are simply judgemental statements, or rhetorical questions meant to belittle someone elses work with no degree of actual critical review. This is not critique. This is childish attack behavior.
It's not about actually critiquing the work discussed, it's simply about bad mouthing it, and seeking others of similar mindset to bash something.
Well, the bulk of his voiceover work has been with voice directors like Andrea Romano or producers like Seth McFarlane and the process is different.
For bigger parts, you're looking at table reads, maybe some dialogue input. But even without that, the better voice gigs, even if they can't assemble a whole cast, try to get two to three people to play off of.
I gather Cryptic records lines one at a time.
Beyond that, as an actor, I have some issues with the writing. It tends to come off like narrating in STO, STO has a content team that excels at research and does its job at plotting but I think dialogue is off kilter and if dialogue is off kilter then it impacts performance. We had Worf doing technobabble, which many Trek actors are known to hate.
Get some writer interviews with TV Trek writers and listen to how they talk about writing Worf, what they love doing with him. A running theme is that Worf is funny. Heck, look at him in the TNG films. "Computer, retract plank." "She's a tough little ship" reaction shot. "Assimilate this." "Romulan Ale should be illegal." "Is that a pimple?" He's not wacky but he is funny. Every classic Worf scene I can think of practically has some comedy in it. Or sadness. Or anger. So there's a lot of stuff left on the table here and I think it shows in the performance because he was called upon to narrate more than act.
I think he sounded like himself and wasn't bad. But I can see it being a bit off.
I still think for the narration stuff, Frakes is one of your best bets. The guy did infomercials as Riker and never broke character. But even then, you need to get character animators to do that grin of his and work some jokes in or let him improvise a few.
Overall, I think the aspect of Trek STO misses most is the humor and range. We have unemotional characters giving unemotional readings from the soon to be gone tutorial EMH to Spock (though Nimoy does get pathos in there) to Tasha to Worf.
Every iteration of Trek had a few wiseacres like McCoy or Riker or O'Brien/Bashir or the Doctor or Trip. And would mine comedy in Picard or Worf or Spock's discomfort.
only thing that bothers me how decent VO like dorn gets thrown together with those awful random NPC voices, it feels really out of place.
Point 1: You contradict yourself within the same statement. "Sounding bad is an opinion", so too is "Sounding good". To me, I couldn't really care which. Hearing the real actor voicing the character was good enough for me, even if it did sound very "scripted".
Point 2: Michael Dorn's interview at startrek.com seem to contradict your assumption that his performance as Worf in STO versus Worf in TNG/DS9 is different due to age.
And yeah, I kept comparing Worf to Coldstone. Honestly, this probably sounded better than his work as Coldstone. In case you're wondering a LOT of the voices in Gargoyles were provided by actors who worked in Star Trek at some point.
My character Tsin'xing
I'm positive that both these fine actors time is expensive.
Thus there isn't always time to do as many takes, to try out so many variations.
In short, there isn't always time for an actor to really find the rhythm of the piece.
I think it's fair to say that Mr Dorn's work here has been somewhat more succesful overall than Ms Crosbys
There's two reasons for that.
One, Ms Crosby went first. And we have to be fair to Cryptic, directing voice talent isn't easy. I think there's a learning curve and they're on it.
Secondly, Ms Crosby had much less expositional stuff. Way more little lines.
Speeches are easier than little lines. You have time to get into it.
Making the single line 'Watch Out!' work properly is not as easy as a two paragraph speech about safety concerns.
I'm just glad that both of these actors have given their work to STO. When Worf says, its been an honour to fight beside you.....well, thats a big deal to a lifelong trekkie.
And Sela had some chilling stuff to say in the Romulan arc.
I look forward to see who's coming next.......
(I want Reginald Barclay)
But... there's always a bit, the key is with what they were given. Look at Worf when you're in the three door room "I think there is something beyond this door".
No $4!7. Really? There's something beyond a door? I'd never have guessed.
Or the classic Tasha Yar whine fest while you're working your way towards the Enterprise-C down the catwalk.
Now if you're an actor, how exactly do you make that work? You can try all you want to make it work, but just sometimes all the acting talent in the world isn't going to make a line like "There's something beyond this door" seem stellar, especially if they're not given the Direction of what exactly is supposed to be beyond the door.
So I'm chalking it up to a lack of proper direction with a lack of stellar writing. Not saying that the writing is BAD... just when you do Voice Over work with actors that are used to being given scripts written by highly paid professionals, it can be a bit difficult.
STO, yes, that'll be my home, my... Paradise. I shall find there all the souls that I love: ... And when I arrive, they will question my worthiness. "What the devil is *he* doing there among us?" Philosopher, scientist, poet, musician, duellist! Here lies ...
- Judge Aaron Satie
Video game voice acting is quite different from what I hear from other forms of voice acting in that it's recorded pretty much with the actor by themselves in a booth, not much direction, no real context for things... they have to make up their tone on the spot. It's easy for us to complain cuz we can play the game and see the flow... but those guys are literally reading lines not knowing what is happening. And they are not always read in the order of the events in the game.
Michael Dorn did fine, but it was weird in places yes.
Crosby not so much.
She added real tension to the scene.
Lets compare STO to the original KOTOR, which even had Ethan Philips (Neelix) as a Jedi knight. There was tons of VO work and it made it feel cinematic, but a lot of it was gibberish, alien languages and many of the characters were mopey dull and depressing. I would love more VO work in STO!
Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
Dorn as Worf... Liked it and I hope he does more for STO! 8 out of 10
Captain Koren... Loved her emotion and I think she fit the part very well 9 out of 10
Adranna.... I hope I spelled that right, her VO was ok at times and terrible at other times. 6 out of 10
Captain Shon... I have always liked who ever it is doing his voice and the FE was good as well. 9 out of 10