I thought Dorn was pretty much reading line for line, He paused dramatically once, but even in combat he had no urgency or depth to his delivery.
Crosby was blah the first time, but when she did Sela you could tell she'd warmed up to it.
I'd like to hear Will Wheaton in STO, he's done a few audio books now and he's got some voice acting chops, probably be a better investment of money to get cast members that have done that kind of work before.
Either way it's nice to have his voice in the game, check one of the list.
I thought Dorn was pretty much reading line for line, He paused dramatically once, but even in combat he had no urgency or depth to his delivery.
Crosby was blah the first time, but when she did Sela you could tell she'd warmed up to it.
I'd like to hear Will Wheaton in STO, he's done a few audio books now and he's got some voice acting chops, probably be a better investment of money to get cast members that have done that kind of work before.
Either way it's nice to have his voice in the game, check one of the list.
yeah and bring in patrick stewart have the both of them walk into the room as a cameo, wesley is talking his mouth off his face then have picard tell wesley to shut up before the camera dramatically resumes on the action elsewhere :P.
Seriously though, if Will was brought in then Wesley would need to have a good part to play, clearly in some sort of time travel event episode or episodes. but since that type of thing has been done to death in star trek, it would be interesting what STO plan if they bring Will in.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
That is really your opinion. I thought they did well and getting to hear those voices. Brought many smiles and enjoyment. Those actors/actress didn't have to take their time to do this for a game. But they did for us the gamers/fans. I'm glad they did.
To me they both brought good voice work.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Seriously though, if Will was brought in then Wesley would need to have a good part to play, clearly in some sort of time travel event episode or episodes. but since that type of thing has been done to death in star trek, it would be interesting what STO plan if they bring Will in.
Both Michael Dorn and Denise Crosby were absolutely brilliant in their voiceovers on sto.
People should be grateful they are doing this,to add to the trek feel about it.
I hope we will see more startrek characters do voiceovers in future.
I agree, I believe that both Michael Dorn and Denise Crosby have done an excellent job in bringing life to their characters. People tend to forget that they are limited to some degree when doing a voice over for a game. There is one problem though, in which I will explain in my response to the poster (Quote) below me.
I don't think it's the actors themselves per-se. I think it might be the equipment or another factor.
The voice over themselves are fine, but you did hit on something. This may not be the case of bad equipment but of bad writing. Cryptic is infamous for its bad writing and horrible dialogue, only up until now (Legacy of Romulus) things have had a slight improvement in the writing department.
Yet the writing and also the director of voice over (If any exist) is where the problem is. The actor is only as good as the script and the guidance from a professional director. I believe CRYPTIC lacks in that department, they have been since the inception of Star Trek Online.
Only until recently have the story arcs have shown some improvement in the storytelling department.
No, OP is not the only one who thinks that the voice overs in this game are pretty poor.
I myself have noted multiple times over the last week that Having big names =! Good performances.
I found Crosby's performances to be cringeworthy, either OTT or just plain old dead.
Mr Dorn's performance has been rather poor to be honest. Some moments of brilliance I'll admit, but most of his lines were delivered with no life to them, rushing them, not even including pauses that are indicated by the grammatical marks in the lines. He delivers a lot of the lines as if he has an appointment with a masseuse in 10 minutes .
That said, his VO work has been markedly better than almost all of the VO work done for this game up to this point. The only better VO in game imo, is the stuff that Leonard Nimoy did. But Nimoy's lines were merely short individual lines like "Congratulations commander!" on level up and the monologues you hear when you enter a sector block for the first time. These good lines are short and individual, while the bad ones tend to be part of a longer block of lines i.e. in a mission or a cut-scene. This leads me to suspect that the problem may lie with the writing.
Ever played a game or watched an animated movie where they've hired celeb actors instead of voice actors? Ever noticed how they never seemed to do as great a job as they did in a live action (bar a few)?
Voice acting and Tv acting are very different, both having different pros and cons. With voice acting you don't have to enact scenes (though some find it helps), while with TV acting you get emotional feedback from the person you're acting with (which is why you get some actors getting annoyed when all they've got to act with is a green screen).
In the case of Sphere of Influence, as good as it was, Michael Dorn was basically giving exposition and technobabble.
I, personally, enjoy all of the VO's... at least the first time through It does bring a bit of flavor to the game, especially to hear voices that are distinctly recognizable as the characters we know.
And NOBODY who ever watched Worf (in English) can honestly claim that they didn't recognize the voice of Worf, whatever they thought about the acting itself.
I'm also not comfortable blaming the writer. No, that is not the way dialogue should be written for a TV show but this is not a TV show.
This is a role-playing game where the "director" is leading the "actor" through a scene when the "actor" has no idea what the plot is, where his marks are, or even what his lines are. I am referring to the Player, of course. Every action needs to be telegraphed so that even the least game-savvy of us understands what they're supposed to be doing.
The dialogue reflects that "leading by the nose" perspective out of necessity. If there is a problem with dialogue (and I am not saying that there is), it may be that the person designing the mission needs to communicate better with the writer when setting up the flow of action. Looking over the vast body of work that made up LoR, I am overall satisfied with the writing and certainly don't think the writer was "terrible".
Likewise, if there is an issue with the VO work I suspect the main problem is that they don't do enough of it. Or rather, that since it is not a normal part of the game and never will be, they don't have enough practice at it yet. Do they even have a full-time VO director? Or do they hire that out on a contract basis? Or is it somebody at Cryptic wearing one more hat than usual?
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
The only thing I didn't like the VOs on the new "Sphere" mission. Is you have only a few lines of voice and then nothing. Like Shon, the Klingon female, etc. Why bother with only a line or 2. Then have a bunch of text.
That is what I didn't like. I wanted the rest of it in voice over. That would made it even better.
Going back to the OP. We don't know if they had much time to review the script. Usually they are giving scripts to practice and memorize. So I'm sure they have those months in advance. Not sure how much time was giving for the game. So they could done been done on the short notice. However I'm glad they did put this in the game. It was great to hear Worf doing a role. And Crosby in hers as well. Hope to see them back and many more in the future.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The only thing I didn't like the VOs on the new "Sphere" mission. Is you have only a few lines of voice and then nothing. Like Shon, the Klingon female, etc. Why bother with only a line or 2. Then have a bunch of text.
That is what I didn't like. I wanted the rest of it in voice over. That would made it even better.
I agree, that was weird. Especially since Worf says everything in his text boxes.
It was also really jarring when your captain "talked" but never said anything.
-blinks- did we play the same missions? Denise Crosby's voiceover work in Temporal Ambassador may not have been stellar (still good imo but not as top-notch as I would have hoped) but her role as Sela was downright creepy AND evil sounding
as for Worf... JEEZE - some people are never satisfied! When that guardian came flying at me I jumped when he said LOOK OUT!! And the part when the Klingon homeworld was revealed as being under observation and he sounded worried I got little tingles up and down my spine wondering
I was so happy to play those missions and got really immersed in them It's amazing to have these actors be apart of the game, not only those two, but Nimoy also
I nitpick because I care. I care about the IP. It bugs me when my AAA Star Trek IP is still in the hands of a AA dev team.
Ive always hated Daniel Stahl, and I always will, I will never forgive him, for the awful STO decisions he's made and keeps making. Since he's the captain of the boat, I point the most rage at him.
We all have our favorite dev teams. Teams we trust to buy their games DAY ONE and almost never regret it. For me, I have a solid trust with Rockstar, Naughty Dog, Rocksteady, and sort of DICE. Can anyone say Cryptic is on their Top 5 dev team list? Shouldnt Cryptic aspire to be Top 5, or Top 3 studios gamers trust? I don't think they do. I think the plaque on the bridge for the USS Cryptic says "Deliver Just Good Enough". Its always 1 step forward, 2 steps back with Cryptic. Now Sphere of Influence on it own is a step forward, and a quick look back. But why look back?
Cryptic clearly needs more polish on the things they do. I critique harshly and don't sugar coat anything because they need to hear it. They don't seem to do much with it, but they need to hear it. They need to know their piers like Rockstar, Naughty Dog, Rocksteady, etc look at their work and laugh their asses off. The polish and attention to detail from the great studios is LIGHT YEARS ahead of what Cryptic produces. They keep injecting new talent, and its showing here and there, but we keep seeing things pushed out that could have been polished better with the time they take to do things. That level of polish falls on the EP. If he doesn't give a TRIBBLE, we get what we get.
Ive always said Kestral the STO writer is in WAY over her head with this IP. Ive called for her job countless times. I didn't even attack the writing in this episode, but as some have noted, it could have been done better to make Worf sound better.
You play games like Grand Theft Auto and Uncharted and look at the level of voiceover work and character animation there, then you look at the hand puppet show Cryptic puts on and the difference is ridiculously noticeable. I put blame on the EP, and the voice director for SoI.
I also realize theres something to be said for our beloved Trek actors. They clearly don't give one TRIBBLE about doing this VO work us. They've made their money, had their Trek fame, and anything these days is lip service. If Dorn was trying HARD to win a full time role, I guarantee he brings it with a great Worf VO. But Michael and Denise don't really care that much.
HippieJohn, you asked if Id say this stuff to their face. I don't go seeking autographs from anyone. So, no, its not THAT big a deal to me to find them at a signing table and tell them what a meh performance they gave in STO. If they care enough, and actually come to this very forum to get opinions, then they should have an honest opinion of the quality of their work compared to the likes of GTA VO work these days.
Some of it I feel is that the old school actors don't give a TRIBBLE about the quality of VO work in games period. (Bless you Patrick Stewart for always caring all the time) They don't respect the work. Games like GTA are going to change that. A billion freaking dollars just got a LOT of actors attention. Bringing the best performance to VO is just as important and lucrative as a good performance on screen.
Why don't I just leave? Its good enough for me to throw a few bucks at the game once a year. I don't fall for their lockbox schemes. If I buy lockboxes, its because I KNOW what Im getting from them when I want EC from the exchange. Like last week I traded 6 keys straightup to a fleet who asked for that in exchange for their T5 ship access. I just wanted a Fleet Assault Cruiser to have the best possible Sovy money could buy. Now I have it, no thanks to my own fleet who just put a 250k contribution cap before you could get one thing out of the store. :rolleyes: Its the only Star Trek game we have. So I keep tuning in from time to time since they were foolish enough to go F2P and let me drop my sub. Since I love Trek, I push Cryptic hard to be worthy of the game they work on. Tough love. Id love to hand out tough pink slips, but I don't have that power. Perhaps if their PW overlords want to know why the studio does just good enough, and read these forums, they'll know what jobs need changing to get maximum profit from this IP. If the current staff cant step up their game, hire people who can.
Its not personal, its business.
EDIT: Oh and the excuse that they need to deliver lines slowly to be understood.....isn't that what the text is for? Let them use their regular character cadence in line delivery. You're already following along with the text anyways, aren't you? So I think that's a bad excuse.
STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
All I got with that wall of whine, is someone listen to my opinion and your opinions don't really matter.
First of all, I will never agree anything anyone says if they use the word against an individual they have never met. Though I don't agree on a lot of the things that the Devs does, but I still enjoy the game.
Secondly, why are you comparing a small studio to a large one backed a lot of money. The analogies are useless based on that alone.
Cry all you want about the lock boxes, but it is either a lock box or whatever box or making the game all subs or outright selling content. This game needs an income to support it.
Though I have enjoyed the voice work from both Denise and Michael, I do agree with those who feel that they didn't sound as their TV counterparts. If you look at Star Trek Armada and the voice work these two did for that game and compare the quality in acting versus what we have now there is a difference. I don't blame the actors for the quality they produce. This responsibility falls on the producer and director of the voice work.
Again, I do think it is wonderful that we are fortunate enough to have these actors participate in the game. However, those overseeing the work really need to make certain that they are getting the performances that he players want and deserve.
Comments
Crosby was blah the first time, but when she did Sela you could tell she'd warmed up to it.
I'd like to hear Will Wheaton in STO, he's done a few audio books now and he's got some voice acting chops, probably be a better investment of money to get cast members that have done that kind of work before.
Either way it's nice to have his voice in the game, check one of the list.
yeah and bring in patrick stewart have the both of them walk into the room as a cameo, wesley is talking his mouth off his face then have picard tell wesley to shut up before the camera dramatically resumes on the action elsewhere :P.
Seriously though, if Will was brought in then Wesley would need to have a good part to play, clearly in some sort of time travel event episode or episodes. but since that type of thing has been done to death in star trek, it would be interesting what STO plan if they bring Will in.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
To me they both brought good voice work.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
"Wesley! Shut up!"...
'nuff said.
I agree, I believe that both Michael Dorn and Denise Crosby have done an excellent job in bringing life to their characters. People tend to forget that they are limited to some degree when doing a voice over for a game. There is one problem though, in which I will explain in my response to the poster (Quote) below me.
The voice over themselves are fine, but you did hit on something. This may not be the case of bad equipment but of bad writing. Cryptic is infamous for its bad writing and horrible dialogue, only up until now (Legacy of Romulus) things have had a slight improvement in the writing department.
Yet the writing and also the director of voice over (If any exist) is where the problem is. The actor is only as good as the script and the guidance from a professional director. I believe CRYPTIC lacks in that department, they have been since the inception of Star Trek Online.
Only until recently have the story arcs have shown some improvement in the storytelling department.
I myself have noted multiple times over the last week that Having big names =! Good performances.
I found Crosby's performances to be cringeworthy, either OTT or just plain old dead.
Mr Dorn's performance has been rather poor to be honest. Some moments of brilliance I'll admit, but most of his lines were delivered with no life to them, rushing them, not even including pauses that are indicated by the grammatical marks in the lines. He delivers a lot of the lines as if he has an appointment with a masseuse in 10 minutes
That said, his VO work has been markedly better than almost all of the VO work done for this game up to this point. The only better VO in game imo, is the stuff that Leonard Nimoy did. But Nimoy's lines were merely short individual lines like "Congratulations commander!" on level up and the monologues you hear when you enter a sector block for the first time. These good lines are short and individual, while the bad ones tend to be part of a longer block of lines i.e. in a mission or a cut-scene. This leads me to suspect that the problem may lie with the writing.
Then go watch this one.
Then come back and apologize about the quality of voice acting in the game, because, man you know nothing about bad voice acting.
Holy Nostalgia Batman
Voice acting and Tv acting are very different, both having different pros and cons. With voice acting you don't have to enact scenes (though some find it helps), while with TV acting you get emotional feedback from the person you're acting with (which is why you get some actors getting annoyed when all they've got to act with is a green screen).
In the case of Sphere of Influence, as good as it was, Michael Dorn was basically giving exposition and technobabble.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
And NOBODY who ever watched Worf (in English) can honestly claim that they didn't recognize the voice of Worf, whatever they thought about the acting itself.
I'm also not comfortable blaming the writer. No, that is not the way dialogue should be written for a TV show but this is not a TV show.
This is a role-playing game where the "director" is leading the "actor" through a scene when the "actor" has no idea what the plot is, where his marks are, or even what his lines are. I am referring to the Player, of course. Every action needs to be telegraphed so that even the least game-savvy of us understands what they're supposed to be doing.
The dialogue reflects that "leading by the nose" perspective out of necessity. If there is a problem with dialogue (and I am not saying that there is), it may be that the person designing the mission needs to communicate better with the writer when setting up the flow of action. Looking over the vast body of work that made up LoR, I am overall satisfied with the writing and certainly don't think the writer was "terrible".
Likewise, if there is an issue with the VO work I suspect the main problem is that they don't do enough of it. Or rather, that since it is not a normal part of the game and never will be, they don't have enough practice at it yet. Do they even have a full-time VO director? Or do they hire that out on a contract basis? Or is it somebody at Cryptic wearing one more hat than usual?
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
That is what I didn't like. I wanted the rest of it in voice over. That would made it even better.
Going back to the OP. We don't know if they had much time to review the script. Usually they are giving scripts to practice and memorize. So I'm sure they have those months in advance. Not sure how much time was giving for the game. So they could done been done on the short notice. However I'm glad they did put this in the game. It was great to hear Worf doing a role. And Crosby in hers as well. Hope to see them back and many more in the future.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I agree, that was weird. Especially since Worf says everything in his text boxes.
It was also really jarring when your captain "talked" but never said anything.
I was so happy to play those missions and got really immersed in them
Ive always hated Daniel Stahl, and I always will, I will never forgive him, for the awful STO decisions he's made and keeps making. Since he's the captain of the boat, I point the most rage at him.
We all have our favorite dev teams. Teams we trust to buy their games DAY ONE and almost never regret it. For me, I have a solid trust with Rockstar, Naughty Dog, Rocksteady, and sort of DICE. Can anyone say Cryptic is on their Top 5 dev team list? Shouldnt Cryptic aspire to be Top 5, or Top 3 studios gamers trust? I don't think they do. I think the plaque on the bridge for the USS Cryptic says "Deliver Just Good Enough". Its always 1 step forward, 2 steps back with Cryptic. Now Sphere of Influence on it own is a step forward, and a quick look back. But why look back?
Cryptic clearly needs more polish on the things they do. I critique harshly and don't sugar coat anything because they need to hear it. They don't seem to do much with it, but they need to hear it. They need to know their piers like Rockstar, Naughty Dog, Rocksteady, etc look at their work and laugh their asses off. The polish and attention to detail from the great studios is LIGHT YEARS ahead of what Cryptic produces. They keep injecting new talent, and its showing here and there, but we keep seeing things pushed out that could have been polished better with the time they take to do things. That level of polish falls on the EP. If he doesn't give a TRIBBLE, we get what we get.
Ive always said Kestral the STO writer is in WAY over her head with this IP. Ive called for her job countless times. I didn't even attack the writing in this episode, but as some have noted, it could have been done better to make Worf sound better.
You play games like Grand Theft Auto and Uncharted and look at the level of voiceover work and character animation there, then you look at the hand puppet show Cryptic puts on and the difference is ridiculously noticeable. I put blame on the EP, and the voice director for SoI.
I also realize theres something to be said for our beloved Trek actors. They clearly don't give one TRIBBLE about doing this VO work us. They've made their money, had their Trek fame, and anything these days is lip service. If Dorn was trying HARD to win a full time role, I guarantee he brings it with a great Worf VO. But Michael and Denise don't really care that much.
HippieJohn, you asked if Id say this stuff to their face. I don't go seeking autographs from anyone. So, no, its not THAT big a deal to me to find them at a signing table and tell them what a meh performance they gave in STO. If they care enough, and actually come to this very forum to get opinions, then they should have an honest opinion of the quality of their work compared to the likes of GTA VO work these days.
Some of it I feel is that the old school actors don't give a TRIBBLE about the quality of VO work in games period. (Bless you Patrick Stewart for always caring all the time) They don't respect the work. Games like GTA are going to change that. A billion freaking dollars just got a LOT of actors attention. Bringing the best performance to VO is just as important and lucrative as a good performance on screen.
Why don't I just leave? Its good enough for me to throw a few bucks at the game once a year. I don't fall for their lockbox schemes. If I buy lockboxes, its because I KNOW what Im getting from them when I want EC from the exchange. Like last week I traded 6 keys straightup to a fleet who asked for that in exchange for their T5 ship access. I just wanted a Fleet Assault Cruiser to have the best possible Sovy money could buy. Now I have it, no thanks to my own fleet who just put a 250k contribution cap before you could get one thing out of the store. :rolleyes: Its the only Star Trek game we have. So I keep tuning in from time to time since they were foolish enough to go F2P and let me drop my sub. Since I love Trek, I push Cryptic hard to be worthy of the game they work on. Tough love. Id love to hand out tough pink slips, but I don't have that power. Perhaps if their PW overlords want to know why the studio does just good enough, and read these forums, they'll know what jobs need changing to get maximum profit from this IP. If the current staff cant step up their game, hire people who can.
Its not personal, its business.
EDIT: Oh and the excuse that they need to deliver lines slowly to be understood.....isn't that what the text is for? Let them use their regular character cadence in line delivery. You're already following along with the text anyways, aren't you? So I think that's a bad excuse.
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
First of all, I will never agree anything anyone says if they use the word against an individual they have never met. Though I don't agree on a lot of the things that the Devs does, but I still enjoy the game.
Secondly, why are you comparing a small studio to a large one backed a lot of money. The analogies are useless based on that alone.
Cry all you want about the lock boxes, but it is either a lock box or whatever box or making the game all subs or outright selling content. This game needs an income to support it.
Again, I do think it is wonderful that we are fortunate enough to have these actors participate in the game. However, those overseeing the work really need to make certain that they are getting the performances that he players want and deserve.