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New Fleet Asset and Small Fleets
azurianstar
Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
Okay, we were told a while ago that the new Fleet Asset that was going in with Season 8 was going to help Small Fleets make progress. But yet I see nothing different.
So how exactly is this new asset supposed to help Small Fleets? Was that a lie? Or does small fleets of close friends or casual players no longer matter in the eyes of the executives?
So how exactly is this new asset supposed to help Small Fleets? Was that a lie? Or does small fleets of close friends or casual players no longer matter in the eyes of the executives?
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They DID say (if I remember correctly) that they were planning to do a few things in Season 8 to help smaller fleets (the mines were just a first step) but we've seen nothing rolled out beyond that as yet.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
Yeah, then they turned around and saying "oh that was part one" or something to that effect and "you'll see more in Season 8". :rolleyes:
Yeah.......more work.
I don't think the Dev Team fathoms how much work small fleets do in trying to keep up with larger fleets. I mean we literally spend our free time grinding Fleet Marks and Dillthium just to keep moving. And it really takes a told out on small fleets because that leads to a larger burn out or leave percentage. We are literally wearing out from "the job".
The Fleets I am in are still working on unlocking Tier 2 Mines, while everyone else has finished getting Tier 3 months ago, and the same thing with the Embassy, and it will be the same for this Spire Asset. By the time we hit unlock 1, large fleets would've finished Mine 3. But hey we can get on our knees and beg our big brothers to let us into their shop to buy stuff......yeah, that defeats the purpose of having Fleet Assets in the first place, doesn't it Cryptic?
So it goes to reason, that large fleets with many active players have nothing to worry about. The rest of us with small fleets (and micro sized fleets) are out of luck. That's why large fleets are always advertising that they're a large fleet. It's a psychological tactic so that people will think "Large fleet that's excellent, I don't have to give my left Kidney and Right arm just for a stupid ship provision."
I don't think you have a realistic view of how long the assets take if you think fleets were done with Tier 3 of the mine holding months ago. Maybe weeks ago, maybe a month ago, but not months ago. The fleet I'm in just finished last week, and inputs usually don't stay open for more than a few hours.
Small fleets situation might improve a lot by just getting rid of the Hyperbole.
They haven't scaled them because then they would be exploitable. This has been explained ad nauseum.
Simple scale mechanism: provide projects where inputs grant double/triple the starbase XP but no fleet credits for contributions. The large fleets can't do this because there is already difficulty getting fleet credits as it is. Small fleets are flush with fleet credits and don't need them as much as they need access to gear and ships.
Furthermore make all fleet gear/ships cost onl fleet credits at the current fleet credit + dilithium rate to ensure larger fleets do not overly use the small feleet projects.
^ What he said...
I've got close to 400,000 fleet credits that are collecting dust. But all of our fleet nonsense is level 2 and we need a gazillion more dill to finish the projects that we have going.
My idea is a two fold process.
1. Since dilithium is usually the coperate raise the amount of fleet credits you get with dilithium. Now it is a one for one. Maybe go for a three to one ratio. This might get people to give more dilithium.
2. Take an average of average of characters in the fleet over the past 365 and times that by a dilthium required per character.
Some of the math would look like this
Let's crunch some numbers
A fleet with 50 characters in its roster vote the last 365 days would looks like this
Tier one upgrades:
2000 dilthium per character
2000 x 50 = 100000 dilthium per upgrade
Tier two would be based off 4000 dilthium per character
4000 x 50 = 200000 dilthium per updrade
Tier three
8000x50=400000
Tier four
16000x50=800000
Tier five
32000x50=1600000
Then you could add in mine discounts.
This does two things.
It should make fleet leaders watch their rosters. If a player has not logged in they should be kicked from the fleet. Also the bigger fleets would then be required to donate more because of a bigger roster.
I did here a rumor but never read anything about it. But the numbers were based of a fleet with 25 active players, not characters. So the base numbers could be off of 25 and adjusted to that numbers.
Ppl stopped do any ec farming there in game not have solution quick make ec for fleet projeckts all based now by girnd lootfarming each day in fondry or selling some good tact XII consoles.
30k+ for one doff form exchenge its expencive even buy these for fleet credits like 300+ doffs each day
Ihave 16 million fc contributings but nothing left after dilmine tier 3 upgrades all fleetcredits i get buying these doffs each day or spending out some dilithium to fleet project.
Every time if game change we lose players in fleet because its take too long to get someting
Our roster is 400 but did you guys know only we have 15 % of them active after nerf of tour the universe. Some members play only 2 hours in 2 weeks there is no way get ppl back only way is recruit.
Recruit is not simple you can spend 12 hours in esd by putting message to zone chat but always is ppl who report you and you getting silenced from game for 24hours there is no easy way to get ppl to non tier 5 fleet. Some days you get 1 recruit after 6 hours of spam
the recruit message
I like to see that every fleet should have recruit channnel in chat where ppl can come and chat for joining to fleet there because all fleets is different.
Ppl rare leave our fleet because we have always something to contribute.
Most ppl in my small fleet all bored to grind someting evend devs make something more harder every time and force ppl grind week get ~3 mil ec.
DOFFs aren't a problem on small projects, but when you geto 400 or higher, it starts to hurt in lose of Fleet Marks.
Dilithium hurts when you got a ton of major projects, and I for one have to farm Diithium on 9 characters so I can advance my fleet with dailies. Even with the Tier 1 Mine discounts (our fleet yet to unlock Tier 2).
Fleet Marks are the worst. For starters, the population in Fleet Mark Events is seriously down and almost completely nonexistant on the KDF Side. The only way to earn Fleet Marks now is finding groups on Defera and earn 300 FMs during the Fleet Mark event.
My guess is this has a lot with:
Fleets finally hitting Tier 5 and no longer need to earn Fleet Marks
Players having to attend School / College
or players getting burnt out / on STO vacation.
Which means the only way to progress is like with this CE Event, which has really helped my Fed and KDF Fleets almost got the Fleet Marks to complete the Tier 2 mine upgrade. But in the long run, it's getting harder and harder and harder to even function as a small fleet.
This is why I'm pressing the issue about Small Fleets. How can we progress if we don't have the people to do Private queues or able to earn it in Public Queues? There needs to be alternate methods.........
this tier 3 dilmine upgrade eadted millions fleet credits for these provisions still cost 500fc for replicate it so no any fc earning in that game possible only specials or these provisions we can earn some fc by buyng real money for zen and contibute dil to fleet projects. its fastest way but not all do that. i spend 50 euros each month to this game just getting dilithium for projects get fleet credits back and spending all again to doffs in sb to fill projects.
This dilmine discounts good but if needed do tier 2-3 upgrade you see how fast ppl lose hard grinded fleet credits in dilmine. We done allready that but yeah these doffs is hard to get soon.
If fleets get tactical consoles even it fleet ones worse little ppl star use them. Prices drop etc.
I itself not like grind all day in game to make some ec easyer is sell 10 keys for 15-20 mil and start crafting angain from artifact these tact consoles we not have any choice. We alomost near tier 5. But still small fleet.
The easiest thing of all is fleet marks, we fill those in hours and sometimes minutes. The higher ranking members even stockpile their FMs to leave that for lower members to contribute. When a big upgrade comes we all drop our marks into it. This way even the larger upgrades are totally easy in terms of FMs. I currently have 3k FMs just sitting there on hold and I wont drop them into projects unless totally necessary.
What is the real problem are the doffs, you need like 300+ every day. I am driving this fleet since the beginning with crafting consoles and I got about 10 mil lifetime FC. Unfortunately Cryptic seems to have messed up the chances for the console crafting, so we dont get any good consoles from that anymore, and I mean literally no one in the fleet. And before you ask, yes we have the doffs. Console crafting gives back junk since 1 month or so for everyone in the fleet.
So with that problem (and when not having the time to grind EC all day) it becomes an issue. I m currently running dangerously low on EC because of that and this has always been my way of driving it. but now it doesn't work anymore.
The second problem are these ridiculous Dil Mine Provisions. They cost 500 FC each and you need thousands of them. Thus, you dont only get drained on EC but also on FC, so buying doffs from starbase is out too. I had to spend like 1.2 mil FCs just for the Dil Mine Tier 3 upgrade. So now I m running out of EC and FC and buying 300 doffs a day becomes harder and harder.
We are a relatively small fleet but not tiny. It around 10 members online around the clock.
We have only just got the tier 2 Embassy project going and we have the Mine tier 3 project going - and that was horrible but to get any discount we had to do it - , we had the Embassy one being worked on for a long time before finishing.
With this holding - and the benefits which effect actual missions - its just a never ending grind for fleets and its so hard for the little guys.
1. Lack of re-balancing of ships. How can my Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier which costs Lobi be instantly outdated when the Scimitar is released (now the avenger makes it even worse)? I've paid more money in lockbox keys than anyone who's brought just a Scimitar. Plus I've also purchased an Atrox and Vesta (months before I decided to work towards my JHDC). You do the math on how much money I've given Cryptic in the last 7 months. Then they give the JHDC a 15% discount two months AFTER I brought it.
2. Lack of support for small fleets. I told them (yet I didn't tell my fleet members yet) I'm 2 inches away from leaving my fleet. Which is bad not only because I'm the fleets founder and co-leader, but because their's only 3 of us that contribute to everything.
3. No connection with the community. I told them how I've been spoiled by Operations Flashpoint/Arma/Arma2/Arma3's community. The dev's walk hand and hand with us (the community) on that game and we gladly have kept it going strong for 10+ years. Yet I don't see STO going past a 5th year the way things are being managed.
Complaining about it will never fix anything, we need to offer Crytpic a solution.
The fleet star base system was not designed for 5 players to hit T3 on everything and T5 in the starbase easily or even in the same time as with 400 people.
Yes my old fleet tried, we hit T3 about the same time as the larger fleets were at T4 and a few were getting T5 but in the end when I said to the other 5 regulars how much more we'd need and about extra holdings we decided to pack it in. Since then we joined a bigger fleet and we all felt a lot better for not having to feed every last scrap of dilithium and spend all our time grinding out mark, doffs, dilithium and ec.
Btw this was before they made it easy and asked for specific types of doffs and when the bartender wanted romulan ale and dosi rotgut.
It sucks your fleet is lagging behind and I do feel for you but just like how this game is balanced for the casual player the fleet system is balanced to not be too easy for big fleets.
My advise, join Public Service, read the rules and enjoy that before the devs remove the ability to invite to map.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Sadly, Public Service was turned into a private channel recently. Not just anyone can join it anymore. NoP Public Service is still open though.
Mine Trap Supporter
Right now ic only getting doff from sb 750fc and getting back 300 fc to contribute it.
Its big loss if i get 650 FC back per doff i really not care about that loss its just small amount.
Its if ppl get more fc per doff its force ppl getting intrest to contibute doffs.
right now these are really expencive in the exchange or sb its nice to see now they made tacticals and security to same contribute slot but projects still need ultra amont these every day.
I know big fleets in sto ppl who hold 5 fleets tier 4+ tehy have 400 active members each fleet there is doffs really not problem.
What we recruit in is ppl kicked from orther fleets is come issue tehy stop contribute or do anything after they got gear rank.
We try keep runners active but nothing helps. Major issue that we not have tier 5 parts yet to get some more quality members. its really hard todo and get in that game.
Good members sit in big fleets and small get kicked ones.
I play in sto over 1 year also run my fleet but after some nerfs i relly forced to buy keys for zen and sell these for EC
Sto is fun game but yeah if more nerfs come sto going die. Ppl cant pay forever they want get something easyer then grind it weeks to get some mil ec or months to get 1 item.
I agree, but that's also the problem. People have been offering solutions for years. Cryptic refuses to even entertain the idea of people that play the game. It's like all they do to generate income is:
1. Lockboxes
2. New ships
3. New fleet ships with only 10% more shields + new console slot
4. Every 6 months (or so) release a new season with new ships and new lock boxes (and completely ignore the previous seasons bugs/complaints).
5. Repeat steps 1-4
Honestly how long can the cash cow keep getting milked until it's all out?
Posted on previous page:
Simple scale mechanism: provide projects where inputs grant double/triple the starbase XP but no fleet credits for contributions. The large fleets can't do this because there is already difficulty getting fleet credits as it is. Small fleets are flush with fleet credits and don't need them as much as they need access to gear and ships.
Furthermore make all fleet gear/ships cost onl fleet credits at the current fleet credit + dilithium rate to ensure larger fleets do not overly use the small feleet projects.
This requires all the same inputs, and prevents players form getting FC if they want extra XP. Fair trade in my opinion and a valid solution that could be implemented to some degree as stated.
1) Dilithium can hurt a lot.
2) Mine and Embassy provisions seems to negate fleet credit profit margin.
To elaborate a bit further on the second point just look at this.
T2 Dil mine upgrade project takes 2881 provisions. At 600 credits per provision that is 1,728,600 credits. Even though this project took 15,470 fleet marks which looks impressive, at 50 credits per mark that is 773,500 credits. That still leaves 954,500 that has to be earned from the other contributions.
There is no profit in it at this point. the starbase may have given us a stock pile of credits but the embassy and the dil mine negated it and since we have stopped working on the starbase to work on the embassy and then stopped work on the embassy to work on the mine each update is just putting us further and further behind.
At this point I would either they skip a holding for an update or only require provisions every other holding.
I do not buy the consumable we have provisions for.
While I am trying to advocate for small fleets, I am not sure a 2 man fleet will ever be able to make it work in any system. I would extrapolate that a fleet consists of 5 member minimum as indicated by the fleet creation process of a team of 5. If you are doing that well with 2 then imagine what you could do with just 3 more of similar commitment. Now you obviously had more than 2 and one point and could try to recruit, or develop a network of microfleets that each focus on one aspect then invite others. This would have to be done carefully though as counting on one small group to do something then quit the game could hurt. I would recommend developing multiples for each holding or starbase aspect.
It would require a level of diplomacy and it is a shame that alliances can't be formed that allows automatic access to allies' stuff but that would probably be exploitable by allying large fleets.
The provisions are too excessive though, and poorly calculated.
Nope. Only 2. Many alts. Even have a few visual upgrades on the starbase and the shuttle service for the embassy. I would post screen shots but that would show the @name of my partner in crime which would violate forum rules. If you want to see for yourself feel free to contact me @Rob_mc_1 for more info.
Even as a micro fleet, the numbers for how the provisions are bleeding still apply as well as my understanding as to what needs to change. Also the progress for each of our holding can be seen here.
I thought fleet creation took 5 people.
It does. But once the fleet is formed, you don't need a minimum number to keep it open. After forming with 5, 3 of them dropped out which left them with a 2 person fleet.
Mine Trap Supporter
My point was specific to that creation indicates the intent of fleets is to be atleast a full team of 5. The dilithium is not going to be met by 2 people unless you are home all the time or spending fists full of dollars on zen for dilithium. This was the whole point of bringing up the 5 people. Your best bet is to rotate ISE with DPS heavy ships. That seems to be the fastest way to get dilithium outside of CE events.
Your comment about the provisions or what ever they are called is right on, those things are way too high in either cost or requirement for advancement projects.
Nope. I'm good for a while.