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We have escorts, destroyers, battle ships and crusiers....
jamesdax
Member Posts: 159 Arc User
Now how 'bout that carrier? Seriously, we are at war on two fronts involving both space and ground combat. You can't tell me Star Fleet wouldn't develop a proper carrier.
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STO wise they already have, I mean the atrox is AMAZING
It isn't starfleets own carrier but it's a federation ship
sending people in tiny ships to do gnats size damage to a big old cruiser where the most ikely outcome is blowing up when the fighter is hit, doesnt feel very starfleet to me,
As for shuttles they are auxillary craft, for away missions etc (again, just what i think)
But then again most people always point to DS9 because of the peregrine raider-y fighters, but my reasoning is.. its ds9, dont pay attention to it
Come to think of it we should blame ds9 for how sto is at the moment where escorts often reign supreme XD *shakes fist* curse you defiant with your cannons!
To be fair, we have to blame TNG for Wesley Crusher AND footie-pajamas for uniforms.
Typhoon for Federation Battleship in 2014.
It is generally believed that if we ever get actual starships they will have at most a token crew to deal with hard choices and the unexpected, the rest being taken care by computers that are far more efficient that people at routine stuff. The problem is not 'why do they have starfighters if they love people so much?' but more like 'Why do they need four thousand dudes in a starship to begin with?'
Maybe other than the bridge officers they are all holodudes. O.O
Also, closed systems can't be TRIBBLE outside of 'space magic.' Why would a starship in combat not have all their systems completely closed? By which I mean 'Disconected from the space net.' Would a starship in battle be running bluetooth or something? Drones are autonomous: The purpose of a controller ship is not to direct them but to set them up, launch them, and let them do their own thing. Then you recover them when the other dude is dead. If he's not dead you can just leave them behind and run.
In any kind of realistic space combat humans are the weakest link. They are slower at processing information than computers are (their one advantage would be in target rich enviroments, which space is not), they can't deal with acceleration nearly as much as a drone can, and without their computers they are useless at the distances and speeds in which space combat would take place. Sure, you can ECM a drone. And you can ECM the computer the dude is using just as well. Good luck aiming that lazor gun at the bad guy 300.000 kms away by eye.
And yes, I am sure those four thousand guys will be a great invasion force when INVADING A PLANET. :rolleyes:
Feds weren't supposed to have carriers to begin with, that was supposed to be KDF only. However, after much BMWing, feds got their carrier, and they even got an ESCORT CARRIER and then a SCIENCE CARRIER. I fail to see what grounds there are to complain with.
If anything, the Romulan players should be complaining they don't have a true carrier.
No, no, no, don't you get it? The Atrox isn't overpowered enough for them, so it's not a 'proper carrier'. Despite the fact that it's equivalent to the Vo'Quv. Maybe they have issues with having to fork over Zen for a carrier they have no business having. . .probably think they should have it 'free'.
No matter how many new toys they get, Feddies are never happy. Always 'suggesting' new stuff or outright demanding it.
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Yes, I did my homework in theoretical Hard Sci-Fi space warfare. Which is exactly the point of drones: A drone is an engine, a computing system, and a gun. When most people thinks 'fighters' they think wrong, the idea with space warfare drones are weapons platforms.
And how will a damaged system be repaired in the middle of space combat? Are you going to hide? You can't. Will they dodge? Lasers hit instantly up to 300.000 kms, faster than a human can react up to 600.000 km or even more. Missiles at that distance are pretty much drones: An engine, a computing system, and a payload. Will they out maneuver a missile that does not have to worry about G-Forces and that can compute trajectories faster that they can punch them in?
The entire point of 'fighters' being drones is that realistic space combat would be incredibly lethal. There's no 'warships in space', there are Napoleonic era encounters with two forces shooting at each other with no cover, no stealth, and barely any dogding. The one who burns the other guy's gun first wins.
And that can be done better by drones than by humans. They react faster, they move faster, they are more accurate, they don't have to deal with G-Forces, and if they blow up you just make another one. At those distances and speeds any of the measures that can invalidate a drone can invalidate a human crew because without electronics they are worthless.
We are talking about theoretical hard sci-fi space warfare. If computing is at modern day level battles would be two starships facing each other and shooting until one of them goes badaboom. There are no 'tricks.' No space invisibility, no surprise attacks, barely any maneuvering: Either the guns hit you before you can react or they give you more than enough time to move out of the way, moment in which you can shoot them down with your own insta-hit lazors. If computing is at a level that permites more than that then it is at a level where drones can be more than an 'auto-pilot', simply because most of the work would be done by computers, with human dudes just saying 'shoot this first', 'don't shoot this, it's ours', 'let's run the hell out of there.'
At the speeds and distances on which theoretical hard sci-fi space combat would take place? Good one. So your organic mind decides to maneuver in a completely unexpected manner. Just, oops, you did flare your thrusters and everyone who is not light-hours away knows exactly what you are doing and aiming exactly at where you will be in the light-time it takes for the pew to reach you.
Are you going to ambush them? Just, oops, everyone in the system knows exactly what you are doing, and the information will arrive to them long before YOU do, as the light from your thrusters does travel faster than YOU do. There are not even 'decoys' in space: The brightness from the thrusters will betray any decoy. The only way to make a decoy is to create a ship the same size, the same mass, the same thrust. And if you do that, uhm... Just slap some guns on it and you have another starship.
And if you can see them, they can see you. If you can shoot a lazor, they can shoot a lazor. If their lazor takes enough time to reach you that your organic brain can dodge then your lazor takes long enough to reach them that then can dodge. If the lazors doesn't, then his doesn't. O.O
So it's pretty much two ships standing there and going 'pewpewpew' on each other. The first one to fry the enemy's guns wins.
Let the drones do it.
The human element is negligible either way, if not counterproductive.
Problem is either you are going full pew on their planet, which does remove the need of an invading force, or you are not going full pew on their planet, which means your starships in orbit are sitting ducks. THERE IS NO HIDING IN SPACE. They saw your fleet coming since the very moment your fleet did flare it's engines, and they did shoot to where your fleet would be long before they did even reach the system. Did you maneuver? Oh, hey, the light will reach them long before you do. Did you slow down? Oh, hey, the light will reach them long before you do. In hard sci fi space you are one big sitting duck. Everyone sees you. Hell, the aliens from Zeta Reticuli will know you are going to invade Zeta Reticuli as soon as the lights from your fleet's thrusters reaches them, which is going to be long before your fleet does.
And they will be shooting you long before you can shoot them. O.O Except if you go full pew on their planet, but then... What do you need an invasion force for? Build a bunch of really big missiles (an engine, a computing system, a big payload - A drone!) aim them to where their planet will be when the missiles arrive, and off they go. If they can shoot the missiles down they can shoot your fleet down, if they don't, well, you probably don't even need an invasion force. They will think your dudes are gods and make you a religion.
Edit: And we kind of went totally off-topic with this. O.O So let's continue it some other day, in some other place where it is not totally off-topic.
Hm... good point.
But feds still have access to the highest DPS PvE carriers in the game. They have access to the JHDC and TRC. The Jem Carrier has it's own vast DPS capabilities and the JHAS pets (now that they FINALLY fixed them) do insane damage. Even if you can't use the JHAS pets, you can still use Elite Scorpion Fighters, which do quite a lot of damage. The Recluse has Elite Mesh Weavers. With APB3. The PERFECT PvE weapon. And they stack.
So feds can get access to the highest PvE damage from pets in the game. They have NOTHING to complain about. Period. END. OF. STORY.
Canon wise, they're the only ones we know use fighters at all!
Now go tell me how many ships the KDF or Roms have.
We do not need any more, at all.
Edit: KDF has 64. Roms have 35. 13 Cross faction/neutral ships.
We need nothing.
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Who are you? The almighty god of Sci-Fi and all things there-in? Seriously. Technology wise you are looking at technologies you cannot even pretend to understand. The space shuttle, you know that thing we currently use to get into space? Not the size of a747, about half its size little more, and thats with extra stuff and cargo space. In theory its all quite plausible, while maybe improbable it's never impossible.
Automation and "free thinking" are two massivley different things. Automated is a preprogrammed set of commands, where-as the "free thinking" versions start anywhere from a preprogrammed set of variables and responses to calcuating a response under certain circumstances. I.E. Cylons, Data, Droids, the list goes on.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
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However, the shuttle didn;t really carry enough fuel for an extended solo flight, not if it wanted to carry anything else, at that.
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My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
Very true but they arew always trying to build newer, smaller ones though
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
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Heeeeeeelk no. Star Fleet wouldn't develop a proper carrier. Besides, theyre coming out with the fleet atrox.
Chillax. No Ego. No Drama.
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when will this stop ?
Never. Proper human nature to always want and need more. If the KDF where the ones always getting they would want more too....
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
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Problem is the KDF aren't getting anything but the feds are .. as usual.
I generally don't mind people getting one thing or another but the feds just got the Avenger ship and now want a carrier and a few other ships.
This is getting stupid and out of hand.
no they would review the tech that allows people to summon holo battleships.
Because after the dominion war starfleet has realized that fighters are deathtraps.
so starflet would develope holo fighter wing projectors instead of hangars. you know, applied tech instead of putting more people into deathtraps.
Point still stands human nature to want.
The primary difference between the FED and KDF asking for ships is we often get them, whereas you dont.
So don't hate on the fact that FED gets when KDF doesnt, and FED asks for more. Hate on the DEV's that don't make anything for you. Dont hate on us because we ask and want.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
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My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
Chillax. No Ego. No Drama.
Like my alien? Watch THE VIDEO
Need custom graphics for you or your fleet? Click HERE