A new toon does not start as a member of a fleet. People make it sound like their Fed or Kdf fleet would vanish if they made a Rom. A new faction can't be given development advantages over another and so irritated players would have to make a simple choice - do I want to start a Rom fleet or not. If you do'nt, fine, but there are many many many Rom players who would, and gladly. Many fleets start up a KDF fleet from scratch after months developing a Fed fleet. I see no difference here.
I'm pretty sure Red V Blue in the queues would not have been amazingly complicated to maintain even if for everything else, Roms had been a third 'real' faction. Thus not 'diluting' the player base. Players already hang out in separate fleets, have different people and channels and spend time on different hubs. In that respect, the playerbase is already 'diluted'. It's the queues where it's a real issue.
Any balance issues being used as an excuse is just silly. Any unbalance can simply be fixed. End of issue.
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Are we debating Cryptic's track record or valid reasons for Roms to not be a ful faction?
The Rom vs KDF cloak bonus and other balance issues being cited as valid reasons sound like this:
Tactical Captains get more damage out of Sci abilities therefore Tac should be a Subclass of Sci. That way, I get to be a Tac and a Sci. I should like this, it's better.
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
I think what you need to understand is that The feds have nothing to lose bt coming in here and calling the romulans whiners because we want equality to them and the kdf. I mean, those two factions own us, and our so called overpowered ships. So yeah, the feds will keep belittling anyone who wants a full faction like they have, and it costs them nothing to do so. in fact its in their best interests if we never have a full faction status.. The kdf on the other hand see us primarily as spoiled little brats who had more at the release of LOR than they had at their release, and its true, we did.. But we also add a very strong force to their make believe empire as well.. Mind you, the majority of the people in this game are pve.. The majority of the people also have little too no interest in PVp, still this thing called game balance gets bantied about like yesterdays news constantly.. Truth is, they're all terrified of the possibility of Us fighting any of them because of our so called over powered ships.. They own us, and thats how they want to keep it: so mush so that many of them are willing to come in here and troll us hoping to belittle us into staying in our places.. We want our own fleets and not have to fight each other, and they ( feds and kdf ) have a problem with that.. Pretty effin sad if you ask me ( and i know you didnt but heh, i give a rat at this point ).
When STO released I recall talking to a number of my friends and saying I could not wait for the day they released the Romulans as a playable race. There is a rich lore there that comes close to that in depth of the Klingons and I would say even surpasses them when you look at the two different book series done specifically on the Romulans.
When I came back to STO, with the Romulans now out I was very excited but when I realized I was just making A Federation or Klingon stooge I was sorely disappointed. The Romulans, by their very own lore are a fiercely independent people. To ask for help from either faction is just something that would never be done.
I have read there is concern of diluting the player base by having to many factions. I have to disagree, the extra factions add a whole new element to the game and the potential for some great PVP. Imagine a scenario where a Federation and Klingon fleet are fighting over a system for dilithium resources when suddenly a Romulan fleet appears. The Federation and Klingons each have to watch their back because the Romulans by their very nature might appear to team with the other side long enough to get the upper hand.
In the end it is my hope that we will see the Romulans expanded upon and given their own identity and more depth.
First of all, I don't really like that we basically get a few missions into the Romulan story and then take over basically the same Federation or Klingon missions. I know this is probably temporary, but it brings me to my main point:
It is not in any way feasible that the Romulan Republic would allow their ships to be put in a position that they might possible fight each other.
Think about it, Fed fleet and a Klingon fleet do battle, with RR ships on both sides. No way.
The federation would not allow it, either. And the Klingons... well, I don't see the Klingons trusting ANY Romulan.
If we must do this simply due to lack of Rommie content at this point, I understand. But a more natural split would be that you can choose the Federation-backed Republic or join the Tal Shiar and have a separate story arc for them. Would have made much more sense.
Also, let me wear Reman uniforms on my Romulan!
Now for the nitpicky RPer in me: Why am I the only one wearing a rom/fed uniform on my ship? If you choose a side, the crew should change to reflect that. And if I'm using a fed ship, then shouldn't there be a few Fed crewmen on board? I don't see the federation simply handing over a capable starship to an all romulan crew in the middle of a war.
Just some thoughts, not sure if this is something you guys could implement or not.
think of it as a homage to city of heroes. that is how im thinking about it.
I however do agree with you there should some fed officers on a fed ship.
First of all, I don't really like that we basically get a few missions into the Romulan story and then take over basically the same Federation or Klingon missions. I know this is probably temporary, but it brings me to my main point:
It is not in any way feasible that the Romulan Republic would allow their ships to be put in a position that they might possible fight each other.
Think about it, Fed fleet and a Klingon fleet do battle, with RR ships on both sides. No way.
The RRWs belong to the Romulan Republic. They don't belong to the Federation, they don't belong to the Klingon Fleet and they don't belong to the Romulan Empire or the Tal Shiar. You can choose to align with a faction and have your ships in the Federation or Klingon fleet, but you are not forced to. Since you claim to be a RPer, it shouldn't be hard to play in this scenario.
Now for the nitpicky RPer in me: Why am I the only one wearing a rom/fed uniform on my ship? If you choose a side, the crew should change to reflect that. And if I'm using a fed ship, then shouldn't there be a few Fed crewmen on board? I don't see the federation simply handing over a capable starship to an all romulan crew in the middle of a war.
Again, your ship does not belong to the Federation but to the Romulan Republic and its personnel comes from the Romulan Republic. Are you a roleplayer? Because I think you are not roleplaying correctly
There is one ship you are given during the storyline that belongs to the Federation. And that one will have Federation crew.
Also "Reman uniform for my Romulan char"? Why call it Reman if you can use it as a Romulan, then?
When STO released I recall talking to a number of my friends and saying I could not wait for the day they released the Romulans as a playable race. There is a rich lore there that comes close to that in depth of the Klingons and I would say even surpasses them when you look at the two different book series done specifically on the Romulans.
When I came back to STO, with the Romulans now out I was very excited but when I realized I was just making A Federation or Klingon stooge I was sorely disappointed. The Romulans, by their very own lore are a fiercely independent people. To ask for help from either faction is just something that would never be done.
I have read there is concern of diluting the player base by having to many factions. I have to disagree, the extra factions add a whole new element to the game and the potential for some great PVP. Imagine a scenario where a Federation and Klingon fleet are fighting over a system for dilithium resources when suddenly a Romulan fleet appears. The Federation and Klingons each have to watch their back because the Romulans by their very nature might appear to team with the other side long enough to get the upper hand.
In the end it is my hope that we will see the Romulans expanded upon and given their own identity and more depth.
It will not be hard adding more depth to this shallow implementation of a vague platform, consisting of the most rudimentary necessities, in which to introduce ships that can produce money. We voted for a faction. This -is not- a faction. Not even close. It is an addition to the existing factions, -even- if established players have to make new characters. Cryptic always wanted you to make alts. Now they found a way to make your alts slightly more interesting, without making it into a true addition. Same way of thinking, no difference in the end.
The RRWs belong to the Romulan Republic. They don't belong to the Federation, they don't belong to the Klingon Fleet and they don't belong to the Romulan Empire or the Tal Shiar. You can choose to align with a faction and have your ships in the Federation or Klingon fleet, but you are not forced to. Since you claim to be a RPer, it shouldn't be hard to play in this scenario.
Although it is true that the new ships were created by the RRW and fly the RRW flag, your assertions are flawed. As a Romulan, you do not choose to join and alliance. You are told you must join an alliance or go play another game. You may have been born a romulan, but that is the sum of it. Like the ferengi or gorn or a hundred other races, your just another freak show addon to the already burgeoning federation or klingon empire.. Thanks to D'Tan, there is nothing left of romulus or its proud heritage. D'Stahl and D'Tan have succeeded where even Berman and Braga failed. They've completely destroyed the Romulan race..
To be perfectly clear, I'd like to see a full, playable Romulan Star Empire faction. I think the Romulan Republic or the Romulan Star Empire would be the better choice. Obviously some elements would be similar to the Romulan Republic given the common roots of both factions. The Romulan Star Empire would have its own technological development (thus unique ships), fleets, and bases. The game does not go into the extent of the military and economic strength of the Romulan Star Empire. In addition, it seems to be run more by the Tal Shiar and who knows where and what they've stashed away (warships, personnel, and the supplies) to wage all out war.
By bringing the Klingons and Federation to New Romulus for assistance (besides simplifying coding) actually has some (Earth) historical prospective. I'd digress and discuss a few examples, but this forum is not the place to do so. In the case of the Romulan Republic, the leadership could pit the Federation versus the Klingon Empire for more support (whatever it maybe) than a faction was initially planning on giving.
The Klingons and Federation undoubtedly see the Romulan Republic as an ally or tool to use against the Romulan Star Empire. I imagine that some of leaders in the Federation or Klingon High Council view the Romulan Republic as future member of their respective factions in whole or by keeping the Romulans divided they can expand their influence into that area of the galaxy. Governments deal in matters of convenience and right now, the arrangement works for the Romulan Republic, Federation, and Klingon Empire to work together.
The assertion that Romulan Republic ships would fire on one another in a KDF versus Starfleet battle I find unlikely in the out of game context. RRWs are not signed over to the KDF or Starfleet. Romulan Republic commanders would still report to Romulan Republic High Command. I doubt the KDF or Federation will be passing along (sensitive) information (on operations) that could be back channeled to the other side. Plus, the Romulan Republic crews probably would take a dim view of being ordered to open fire on their compatriots who happen to be "on the other side." Romulan Star Empire warbirds sure, but the folks in our fleet?
Given their lack of resources, I doubt that Romulan Republic High Command would release ships or whole fleets to support the Federation and KDF operations unless it was in their mutual interest to do so, like an operation against a major Borg or Romulan Star Empire holding. I imagine that most of the Romulan Republic fleet would be deployed along the border with the Romulan Star Empire, showing the flag at colonies that have yet to choose a side, and protecting Romulan Republic worlds/colonies in addition to New Romulus itself. While new ships are being built, it appears that (in game) the majority of the Romulan Republic ships are the result of defections, salvaged (and refitted), or simply stolen from the Star Empire. A massive military build up would be a drain on the Republic's economy. Resources spending on the military machine are taken away from building the new capital (world) and trying to attract new colonies to their banner.
Ad astra per aspera
God be between you and harm, and all the empty places we must walk.
Boy wouldnt that be kinda cool... Have the RSE/RR as an introverted third faction with its own plot. The "tutorial" lv1-10 has you doing things and by lv10 your 'choose your allegience' is between the RSE and the Republic. Since the entire Romulan campaign is all prequel to the rest of STO it wouldnt even affect things. I can see the Empire working with the rest of the Alpha/Beta quadrant factions versus the Breen, Dominion, Borg, etc. so it wouldnt affect the rest of the episode content either, past being called Empire or Republic... and since Cryptic cant get that right.. who'd notics
Honestly, there are a few issues I see with this gameplay here for STO when it comes to the Romulan Republic.
One:
The fact that many of these Romulan/Reman worlds are nothing more than colonies and settlements after the Hobus Incident means clearly that the Romulans itself are in a state of disarray. Now with that being said what that means is yes there are many worlds that feel
A: They don't want to join any faction and just want to keep to to themselves and rebuild. This would be the "Isolationist". This is very similar on the policy that the United States took on the issue of WWII until the attack on Pearl Harbor. The US like these colonies and settlements were rebuilding after a major incident that really put this country as well as the rest of the world into the "Great Depression".
B: The next ones would be the type we seen in nations like TRIBBLE Germany, or Communist Russia during the Cold War, "Fanaticals". These would be like the ones of the Tal Shiar, or the Romulan Star Empire. They are the ones that feel that they are the devote authority of that sector of space. They are wishing for the glory days because it was in fact the glory days that brought the most prosperity for the Romulans then. The galaxy feared, revered, or just hated them. And they didn't care one bit. To them they were a force to be reckoned with and would take any means necessary being by militant force or even deception itself to achieve the glory days through any means necessary. Beside what do you expect their Romulan. BRILLIANT!
C: The last one is simple to define, the oppressed, the persecuted, the silenced. These are the ones that are tired of having their lives intruded upon only to be forced under the regime of the fanatical order. These are the "Freedom Fighters". This is what the Romulan Republic is. Very similar to the fledgling United States of America during the Colonial Period of the Revolutionary War. This type of faction only wants to separate from the oppression of the TS/RSE and found a new nation under their vision. And yes like the United States resources, funding, and of course supplies had to come from somewhere. In this case France. Of course too for the Romulan Republic the only allies would be the KE or the FED itself.
Two:
With the Romulan Republic formed yes you would think that every starship in their fleet or flotilla would in fact mean that yes they need to take a strong defensive stance on defending their sovereignty at such young beginnings for the Romulan Republic. I mean come on they have the Tholians to deal with, the TS/RSE, then also the Elachi, and many others. But to force the captains to choose the KDF or the FED to team be assigned to? Pardon my expression but, WTF? ~Head explodes followed by mad laughing.~
Yup enough said, I think people like myself would like to see a more in depth story for the Romulan Republic beyond the founding of New Romulus on Dewa III.
Anyways, that's my point on the whole thing so love it, hate it, comment it, I don't care overall though the idea of an edition including with the TS/RSE as a choice would be a good idea but also why side with the RSE when everyone backstabs one another. But oh well.
Seriously, what is it with all the necromancy this month?
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
It is not in any way feasible that the Romulan Republic would allow their ships to be put in a position that they might possible fight each other.
Think about it, Fed fleet and a Klingon fleet do battle, with RR ships on both sides. No way.
You're mistaken about what an alliance is.
An alliance doesn't mean you always turn up and fight for your allies. Alliances have terms and a severely diminished Romulan Republic obviously wouldn't set their own citizens to fighting each other on behalf of the Federation and KDF.
I think it will soon be moot though. It seems like the developers are moving towards ending the Federation / KDF conflict which would obviously do away with the need for Romulan players to pick one or the other.
Comments
I'm pretty sure Red V Blue in the queues would not have been amazingly complicated to maintain even if for everything else, Roms had been a third 'real' faction. Thus not 'diluting' the player base. Players already hang out in separate fleets, have different people and channels and spend time on different hubs. In that respect, the playerbase is already 'diluted'. It's the queues where it's a real issue.
Any balance issues being used as an excuse is just silly. Any unbalance can simply be fixed. End of issue.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Are we debating Cryptic's track record or valid reasons for Roms to not be a ful faction?
The Rom vs KDF cloak bonus and other balance issues being cited as valid reasons sound like this:
Tactical Captains get more damage out of Sci abilities therefore Tac should be a Subclass of Sci. That way, I get to be a Tac and a Sci. I should like this, it's better.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
When I came back to STO, with the Romulans now out I was very excited but when I realized I was just making A Federation or Klingon stooge I was sorely disappointed. The Romulans, by their very own lore are a fiercely independent people. To ask for help from either faction is just something that would never be done.
I have read there is concern of diluting the player base by having to many factions. I have to disagree, the extra factions add a whole new element to the game and the potential for some great PVP. Imagine a scenario where a Federation and Klingon fleet are fighting over a system for dilithium resources when suddenly a Romulan fleet appears. The Federation and Klingons each have to watch their back because the Romulans by their very nature might appear to team with the other side long enough to get the upper hand.
In the end it is my hope that we will see the Romulans expanded upon and given their own identity and more depth.
think of it as a homage to city of heroes. that is how im thinking about it.
I however do agree with you there should some fed officers on a fed ship.
The RRWs belong to the Romulan Republic. They don't belong to the Federation, they don't belong to the Klingon Fleet and they don't belong to the Romulan Empire or the Tal Shiar. You can choose to align with a faction and have your ships in the Federation or Klingon fleet, but you are not forced to. Since you claim to be a RPer, it shouldn't be hard to play in this scenario.
Again, your ship does not belong to the Federation but to the Romulan Republic and its personnel comes from the Romulan Republic. Are you a roleplayer? Because I think you are not roleplaying correctly
There is one ship you are given during the storyline that belongs to the Federation. And that one will have Federation crew.
Also "Reman uniform for my Romulan char"? Why call it Reman if you can use it as a Romulan, then?
It will not be hard adding more depth to this shallow implementation of a vague platform, consisting of the most rudimentary necessities, in which to introduce ships that can produce money. We voted for a faction. This -is not- a faction. Not even close. It is an addition to the existing factions, -even- if established players have to make new characters. Cryptic always wanted you to make alts. Now they found a way to make your alts slightly more interesting, without making it into a true addition. Same way of thinking, no difference in the end.
We are -Extramulans-.
---
By bringing the Klingons and Federation to New Romulus for assistance (besides simplifying coding) actually has some (Earth) historical prospective. I'd digress and discuss a few examples, but this forum is not the place to do so. In the case of the Romulan Republic, the leadership could pit the Federation versus the Klingon Empire for more support (whatever it maybe) than a faction was initially planning on giving.
The Klingons and Federation undoubtedly see the Romulan Republic as an ally or tool to use against the Romulan Star Empire. I imagine that some of leaders in the Federation or Klingon High Council view the Romulan Republic as future member of their respective factions in whole or by keeping the Romulans divided they can expand their influence into that area of the galaxy. Governments deal in matters of convenience and right now, the arrangement works for the Romulan Republic, Federation, and Klingon Empire to work together.
The assertion that Romulan Republic ships would fire on one another in a KDF versus Starfleet battle I find unlikely in the out of game context. RRWs are not signed over to the KDF or Starfleet. Romulan Republic commanders would still report to Romulan Republic High Command. I doubt the KDF or Federation will be passing along (sensitive) information (on operations) that could be back channeled to the other side. Plus, the Romulan Republic crews probably would take a dim view of being ordered to open fire on their compatriots who happen to be "on the other side." Romulan Star Empire warbirds sure, but the folks in our fleet?
Given their lack of resources, I doubt that Romulan Republic High Command would release ships or whole fleets to support the Federation and KDF operations unless it was in their mutual interest to do so, like an operation against a major Borg or Romulan Star Empire holding. I imagine that most of the Romulan Republic fleet would be deployed along the border with the Romulan Star Empire, showing the flag at colonies that have yet to choose a side, and protecting Romulan Republic worlds/colonies in addition to New Romulus itself. While new ships are being built, it appears that (in game) the majority of the Romulan Republic ships are the result of defections, salvaged (and refitted), or simply stolen from the Star Empire. A massive military build up would be a drain on the Republic's economy. Resources spending on the military machine are taken away from building the new capital (world) and trying to attract new colonies to their banner.
God be between you and harm, and all the empty places we must walk.
One:
The fact that many of these Romulan/Reman worlds are nothing more than colonies and settlements after the Hobus Incident means clearly that the Romulans itself are in a state of disarray. Now with that being said what that means is yes there are many worlds that feel
A: They don't want to join any faction and just want to keep to to themselves and rebuild. This would be the "Isolationist". This is very similar on the policy that the United States took on the issue of WWII until the attack on Pearl Harbor. The US like these colonies and settlements were rebuilding after a major incident that really put this country as well as the rest of the world into the "Great Depression".
B: The next ones would be the type we seen in nations like TRIBBLE Germany, or Communist Russia during the Cold War, "Fanaticals". These would be like the ones of the Tal Shiar, or the Romulan Star Empire. They are the ones that feel that they are the devote authority of that sector of space. They are wishing for the glory days because it was in fact the glory days that brought the most prosperity for the Romulans then. The galaxy feared, revered, or just hated them. And they didn't care one bit. To them they were a force to be reckoned with and would take any means necessary being by militant force or even deception itself to achieve the glory days through any means necessary. Beside what do you expect their Romulan. BRILLIANT!
C: The last one is simple to define, the oppressed, the persecuted, the silenced. These are the ones that are tired of having their lives intruded upon only to be forced under the regime of the fanatical order. These are the "Freedom Fighters". This is what the Romulan Republic is. Very similar to the fledgling United States of America during the Colonial Period of the Revolutionary War. This type of faction only wants to separate from the oppression of the TS/RSE and found a new nation under their vision. And yes like the United States resources, funding, and of course supplies had to come from somewhere. In this case France. Of course too for the Romulan Republic the only allies would be the KE or the FED itself.
Two:
With the Romulan Republic formed yes you would think that every starship in their fleet or flotilla would in fact mean that yes they need to take a strong defensive stance on defending their sovereignty at such young beginnings for the Romulan Republic. I mean come on they have the Tholians to deal with, the TS/RSE, then also the Elachi, and many others. But to force the captains to choose the KDF or the FED to team be assigned to? Pardon my expression but, WTF? ~Head explodes followed by mad laughing.~
Yup enough said, I think people like myself would like to see a more in depth story for the Romulan Republic beyond the founding of New Romulus on Dewa III.
Anyways, that's my point on the whole thing so love it, hate it, comment it, I don't care overall though the idea of an edition including with the TS/RSE as a choice would be a good idea but also why side with the RSE when everyone backstabs one another. But oh well.
Seriously, what is it with all the necromancy this month?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
^this
tho I agree... with the necro's point... but its been made dozens of times
You're mistaken about what an alliance is.
An alliance doesn't mean you always turn up and fight for your allies. Alliances have terms and a severely diminished Romulan Republic obviously wouldn't set their own citizens to fighting each other on behalf of the Federation and KDF.
I think it will soon be moot though. It seems like the developers are moving towards ending the Federation / KDF conflict which would obviously do away with the need for Romulan players to pick one or the other.